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-   -   Crist: The BC deserves NOT to have RA (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31062)

freddymo 08-04-2009 08:20 PM
You can't be serious Fatty? Your super bowl analogy is comical. And clearly the GO GO Rams would not be flattered by Green Bay in Jan on grass...Don't fcuk with me with Football.. You are still missing that Poly while creditable surface is not dirt, hence a dirt horse should have to prove there mettle on it.. As for Curlin I never liked the horse, thought he was a the overrated colt of all time..

parsixfarms 08-04-2009 08:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by freddymo
Rachel is a filly.. She is suppose to go against fillies in the Alabama.. Kensei is a colt that Jess would like to establish as a major Stallion prospect. Is the guy not entitled to fix the deck alittle. Rachel against multiple Grade 1 winning older males isn't enough? Or are you a let's see if the filly is a real man and go to the Arc guy? lol
No, that talk is foolish, but I'm not the one who said "champions should race against champions," as Jackson did when he bought her. I think Jackson wants to "challenge" her, but not too much. They have carefully managed where and when they race against the boys; the Preakness was a softer spot than the Belmont (hell, it was viewed as being such a soft race post-Derby that Barry Irwin was going to enter Hull until Rachel showed up), and putting her in any Saratoga spot other than the Travers, a race which by their own admission they are considering, would be opting for the path of lesser resistance.

GBBob 08-04-2009 08:29 PM
I wonder if Jackson owned Z if he would venture East? That would be the true test of his new found love of dirt.

the_fat_man 08-04-2009 08:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by freddymo
You can't be serious Fatty? Your super bowl analogy is comical. And clearly the GO GO Rams would not be flattered by Green Bay in Jan on grass...Don't fcuk with me with Football.. You are still missing that Poly while creditable surface is not dirt, hence a dirt horse should have to prove there mettle on it.. As for Curlin I never liked the horse, thought he was a the overrated colt of all time..
Why it is comical? Why are DIRT horses the only ones WORTHY in BEYER LAND?

I'm not missing anything. Poly isn't dirt the same way a dome is not an open stadium (grass/dirt is not artificial surface).

You stone age MoFo's really need to get with the program. The game is changing and you just don't want to go along.

POLY IS HERE TO STAY. MONEY TALKS.

gales0678 08-04-2009 08:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by the_fat_man
Why it is comical? Why are DIRT horses the only ones WORTHY in BEYER LAND?

I'm not missing anything. Poly isn't dirt the same way a dome is not an open stadium (grass/dirt is not artificial surface).

You stone age MoFo's really need to get with the program. The game is changing and you just don't want to go along.

POLY IS HERE TO STAY. MONEY TALKS.

and slots ring true

The Indomitable DrugS 08-04-2009 08:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GBBob
I wonder if Jackson owned Z if he would venture East? That would be the true test of his new found love of dirt.
He probably would have .. Zenyatta gave a good account of herself on dirt even though she's better suited to synthetic from a style standpoint.

However, if Steve Asmussen trained Zenyatta, she probably wouldn't get past Briecat on synthetics ... and I'm talking level weights.

10 pnt move up 08-04-2009 09:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS
He probably would have .. Zenyatta gave a good account of herself on dirt even though she's better suited to synthetic from a style standpoint.

However, if Steve Asmussen trained Zenyatta, she probably wouldn't get past Briecat on synthetics ... and I'm talking level weights.
How good would Zenyatta be with Asmussen at the helm, she would be enhanced for certain.

The Indomitable DrugS 08-04-2009 09:37 PM
Asmussen has nothing on her trainer.

Zenyatta has one of the absolute best .. and few if any are better at having a horse at their peak for one specific race.

tector 08-04-2009 11:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by parsixfarms
No, that talk is foolish, but I'm not the one who said "champions should race against champions," as Jackson did when he bought her. I think Jackson wants to "challenge" her, but not too much. They have carefully managed where and when they race against the boys; the Preakness was a softer spot than the Belmont (hell, it was viewed as being such a soft race post-Derby that Barry Irwin was going to enter Hull until Rachel showed up), and putting her in any Saratoga spot other than the Travers, a race which by their own admission they are considering, would be opting for the path of lesser resistance.
So let me see now.

The one horse (filly) who has campaigned this year at 6 tracks in 6 states--undefeated, twice against boys in Grade 1s--is now obligated to follow Quality Road wherever he goes, before being then obligated to run off to California to run over a bogus crap surface to face a mare that is being campaigned with the most boring, borderline cowardly approach to HOY I have ever seen.

Uh, yeah.

If Pletcher really wants QR to face RA, is there some law preventing HIM from entering the Woodward? Why is the burden on the only horse that is being campaigned all over the place in a highly imaginative manner?

Screw you.

The bug some of you people have up your collective asses about Jess Jackson is pretty telling. Your petty jealousies say more about you than him.

Bobby Fischer 08-04-2009 11:11 PM
Rachel is King
 
Right now Rachel is the star.

It will be a shame if the Classic shapes up like last year with some of the best European talent taking a serious shot, and her not participating. It will also be anti-climactic and disappointing if Rachel does not at least run in the biggest dirt races along the schedule.
Jackson has been bold so far with the Preakness and Haskel, I guess we have to hope he continues. Maybe she ships to Hanshin in Japan to get the Dirt Cup? Obviously Dubai World Cup is out of the question as this years world cup will be on synthetic with probably an improved cast featuring some of the same types of hard hitters that will be at this years Classic.

chucklestheclown 08-04-2009 11:17 PM
Won't the new Dubai surface be a totally new one?

tector 08-05-2009 12:17 AM
Hmmm...just read this:

http://www.brisnet.com/cgi-bin/edito...e.cgi?id=15828

Dude is ahead of me--RA v. QR v. Zenyatta in the Woodward!

If you can get me that race, you can cancel the fricking BC "dirt" (sic) races for all I care.

chucklestheclown 08-05-2009 12:39 AM
This is the first you thought of this being a possibility (in fantasy-land)?

tector 08-05-2009 12:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chucklestheclown
This is the first you thought of this being a possibility (in fantasy-land)?
I had no thought of it whatsoever, possible or not. Read my post earlier.

chucklestheclown 08-05-2009 12:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tector
I had no thought of it whatsoever, possible or not. Read my post earlier.
Which one?

http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/sea...earchid=437143

The point is, every race is a possibility for either of them.

tector 08-05-2009 12:48 AM
#29 in this thread.

chucklestheclown 08-05-2009 01:10 AM
OK, looks like you WERE thinking of it though you said you hadn't. That's what had me confused. Sorry.

Danzig 08-05-2009 05:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by freddymo
Rachel is a filly.. She is suppose to go against fillies in the Alabama.. Kensei is a colt that Jess would like to establish as a major Stallion prospect. Is the guy not entitled to fix the deck alittle. Rachel against multiple Grade 1 winning older males isn't enough? Or are you a let's see if the filly is a real man and go to the Arc guy? lol


has nothing to do with whether she's a filly or a colt. if you have the best, you race that horse as such.

i think jess feels she can move up a step, while kensei possibly can handle the colts-leaving jess with two potential big wins. i wouldn't mind seeing rachel in the travers-but in a way, it's been there done that since she's now beaten the colts twice in gr 1's. the woodward has never been won by a distaffer-another first for rachel if she pulls it off.

parsixfarms 08-05-2009 05:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tector
The bug some of you people have up your collective asses about Jess Jackson is pretty telling. Your petty jealousies say more about you than him.

My primary point is we've all been down this road before with Jess Jackson. Last year, it was Curlin versus Big Brown that didn't happen despite all the clamoring for it. (And no, I don't completely absolve the IEAH crowd for that.)

Right now, there are three really first-rate horses racing over a distance of ground in this country: Rachel, Zenyatta, and Quality Road. I've only expressed my skepticism that Jackson will allow Rachel to face either of the other two. You want to give him a pass over the Breeders' Cup because of the synthetic surface, fine. However, the Travers is a championship-type race (the so-called "forth leg" of the Triple Crown for 3YOs) being contested on dirt track at a historic venue with the other two winners of the Triple Crown races also likely to contest the race. It's been 27 years since such a confluence of events happened. That would be a truly historic race for which national television coverage is already scheduled (SportsCenter at Saratoga, I believe). And certainly good for the sport.

I suspect that most racing fans would rather see that matchup than an untelevised matchup with the likes of Macho Again or Dry Martini in the Woodward, especially where it would get lost in the shuffle of the opening week of the NFL season.

Danzig 08-05-2009 05:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by the_fat_man
But, I'm not really missing the point. The BC is now an INTERNATIONAL event. There's much INTERNATIONAL money in the game these days, probably as much if not more so than AMERICAN money. Safe to say, the FOREIGNERS are putting a lot of money into the pockets of AMERICAN breeders. And, the BC really needs to accommodate these big investors the same way that tracks accommodate their big spenders. The difference, of course, is that what's happening in the BC is very fair, while PAST POSTING (and whale rebating) ISN'T.

But I digress:

So, I think that for a horse to be GREAT in this era, it needs to run against the BEST HORSES on whatever surface the BC happens to be held on for that year.

Imagine, for example, if a DOME football team REFUSES to play in the Super Bowl because it's being held in an open stadium with natural grass. Could this team then claim to be the NFL champ? Could it claim a long history of football on grass?:rolleyes: That works.

CURLIN was NOT beaten by the Pro Ride. Rather, he was beaten by the RIDE. He moved too soon. He handled the Pro Ride fine and RA probably will as well.

Tell you this much, let's say Zenyatta runs in the classic and with her last move style gets a perfect setup and wins. How the **** is RA horse of the year then? How is she the best filly/mare in the country even?

How is I Want Revenge the horse that might've been, when the BEYER BUM, Pioneer.... kicked his ass repeatedly on the Poly?

This **** only happens in horse racing.

since you like the poly tracks, i can see why you think it shouldn't be a problem for her to go. but i doubt you'd be so angry about them skipping the event if they decided to hold the whole thing on turf. i just don't understand why anyone thinks all main tracks are created equal regardless of surface composition.

jess let himself be talked into running curlin, and he lost. he doesn't strike me as a stupid man. if he somehow changed his mind, and she suffered her only loss of the year on a main track in cali, i can't imagine how that would make him feel.

as for how zenyatta would be hoy-the california queen won't run in the classic so it's a moot point.


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