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Quote:

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I've rethought the whole thing and have decided to join PETA.

I'm banking on the chicks being hot.

Say hello to Pam for me ;)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Storm Cadet

Say hello to Pam for me ;)

She's getting old but her boobs will be forever young.

Looking Back and Forwards

I, too was depressed about the outcome of the Kentucky Derby on Saturday. The only bright spot i thought was Big Brown's effort (the horse) and the courageous effort and ultimately terrible outcome of Eight Belles.
All i could think about was another unfortunately and untimely death of a horse who gave it her all, on the biggest stage that we have.

I was saddened first by Eight Belles having to be put down like the rest of us are. I was also saddened by who was the trainer of the winner of the Ky. Derby. I thought about all of the hard working and honest trainers who have never had a chance to win the Derby or even get close to racing in that race.

I was next saddened in reading the NY Times the following day and the negative coverage and editorial by one of their sports writers basically calling for the end of racing and comparing our sport to greyhound racing. Enough said about that.

In an industry that does not have one voice given the separate entities of state jurisdictions and differences in track ownership we are sorely lacking a place to move forward.

As a fan and lucky enough to be involved in a very slight way on the ownership level, i can only hope that our dark moment will lead to changes that can be positive. That said, after reading Chuck's piece, one can not see the light at the end of the tunnel at this point in time.

Thanks Andy Serling for your wonderful essay and i also look forward to racing as we enter Belmont, Churchill Downs and then Saratoga.

well done chuck.......

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I've rethought the whole thing and have decided to join PETA.

I'm banking on the chicks being hot.

You're screwed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mumtaz

You're screwed.

literally

Quote:

Originally Posted by GBBob

literally

Rimshot. And he's here all week, folks! :D

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mumtaz

Rimshot. And he's here all week, folks! :D

try the veal

oh...bad form..even for Shrek

Quote:

Originally Posted by Storm Cadet

Say hello to Pam for me ;)

She sure has one F'd up nose without all the air-brushing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rileyoriley

She's getting old but her boobs will be forever young.

Saw her on the "Larry King Live" show a few weeks back, and of course w/o a bra(B!tch!):rolleyes: Was it just the camera angle or are her nipples too high? Looked very strange........

Quote:

Originally Posted by Storm Cadet

Thanks Chuck...keep your chin up buddy!

I think though that we should prepare for more injuries as time goes on as we've diluted the racing stock and made the species more frail. I don't think there is anything we can do to turn this biological/physiological aspects of these injuries around any time soon.

Just like in sports Chuck, we have instead of making the athletes we have less injury prone, we've managed to make them more frail with ridiculous things like pitch counts in high school for baseball players, so when they come to pitch in colleges where we play 60 9 inning games, over 9 months, plus daily workouts, they all end up needing Tommy John surgery or having stress bone related elbow problems or shoulder labral tears. Junior high and high school is where you need to stress the bones and ligaments/tendon/muscle groups to repetitive motion to increase stamina and strength. In almost EVERY sport now, injury rates are exploding because we "pansy" them at the developmental stage of their lives. And the NCAA LIMITS them to only 20 hours of practice/play a week! I've never seen this epidemic of injuries to college age and pro athletes in my 30 plus years as a trainer/medical director!
We've gone from a 4 man rotation in MLB to hoping a pitcher can thrown once a week. Look at how the stupid Yankees are babying Joba Chamberlain, not letting him start and how they all are on pitch counts. You think Whitey Ford or Don Drysdale or Bob Feller had pitch counts? Now the best we can hope for is 6 innings and maybe 220 innings a year. We're lucky to have a college pitcher throw one game a week now (7day rotation)

Physiology is physiology, equine and human...when did the equine set start thinking that less is better? Why don't we breeze younger horses for longer distances to work up to the classic distances? Secretariat raced 8 times as a 2yo and many of those races were at 8.5f. Affirmed raced NINE times as a 2yo and ran the San Anita Derby at 9F and the Holleywood Derby at 10F in California prior to Churchill Downs. So in years past, a foundation was layed down. Why is the Derby the 1st time they probably race that far. Why can't trainers in Jan or Feb start laying down a foundation of distance works to prepare for KD, Preakness? Especially for the 2YO's that maybe show classic form (Champagne Stakes winners). And if they say there isn't time, then why race without the foundation? Why tell any athlete to do something they've never attempted before in their lives at the highest level of competition? What results can we expect besides injuries? But we do in horse racing. Yes, I understand that the triple crown is the test of champions...but the breed has changed. But we're not flexible because of tradition. Of the 12 horses I've been a part owner of, I had two Grade 1 stakes placed horses as 2yo's...and I'd asked my trainers what we were planning on doing to lay the foundation in the off season for their 3 yo season, only to get the "look". What do you think happened to each? One death and one with career long injuries. Bad luck? No bad planning and conditioning drills IMO. I agree with the vet Dr Bramledge who Steve had on todays show, stress them more at an earlier age to reduce injuries...not baby them!

If the breed is in effect weaker and more frail, then what can we do to reduce the injuries and bad press? Continue to ignore this frailty and race them in the same traditional time period of yesteryear KD, Preakness and Belmont? or do we admit the species is frail and we're past the point of no return and change the dates to May-June July? or discuss some other possible changes?

They will continue to ignore the truth that's staring them in the face. I think this is a great post. I agree with all you have said. The only point I would maybe disagree with is the way you would deal with 2yos. I would race them more often but at shorter distances. But then that's because I would shorten the TC races themselves. I don't know if longer works and races would be the answer but it might be. As you say, it did work in the past. But the question is whether or not the breed is past the point of no return, as you put it, and can't be trained the same way as the horses of yesteryear.

Again, great post.

This doesn't relate to the horse topic but...NCAA limiting practice and play time completely makes sense.....seeing as how they are students first.

Quote:

Originally Posted by letswastemoney

This doesn't relate to the horse topic but...NCAA limiting practice and play time completely makes sense.....seeing as how they are students first.

lol @ that. Pretty funny that you believe that's true. Maybe at the lower levels and even up to mid-major level. But at the upper levels, a lot of them aren't students first. You think Michael Beasley and OJ Mayo were students first? Please. They were only in college because David Stern made them go. I know for a fact that in the second semester, Mayo wasn't attending classes at USC. Why should he have? That would have only been necessary to keep him eligible for next season, which he already knew he wouldn't be spending at USC.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Storm Cadet

Secretariat raced 8 times as a 2yo and many of those races were at 8.5f. Affirmed raced NINE times as a 2yo and ran the San Anita Derby at 9F and the Holleywood Derby at 10F in California prior to Churchill Downs. So in years past, a foundation was layed down. Why is the Derby the 1st time they probably race that far.

Actually, Secretariat ran 9 times as a 2yo and only the final two were at 8.5 furlongs after he had a foundation of seven races working up to that distance. I don't have Affirmed's past performances in front of me but I believe it to be the same case. I actually think part of the problem is that the 2yos are stretched out too quick in an attempt to space their races and keep them fresh for their 3yo season that they wind up going two turns before they get the foundation sprinting. Many top horses now start at 5-6 furlongs, move up to 7 for their second start, and are on to 8 or 8.5 by their third. If Secretariat and Affirmed were so successful getting that foundation in sprints before going two turns and were then able to win the Triple Crown why aren't trainers today trying that? I'm not advocating 9 races cause I know the majority of horses today couldn't do that even though it is pathetic that they could 30 years ago and can't now. But why not at least get four starts in at 7 furlongs or less before you stretch the horse out to a mile or 8.5?

i agree, a bigger foundation of sprints is the way to go at two.

I agree about the sprints. The connections of top horses seem almost afraid to lose races these days and don't like to race horses into shape while losing. Nearly all the great ones lost multiple times, but today for whatever reason the big name connections see it as a black mark against the horse.

Ongoing thanks to Chuck for providing us with the unique perspective he has as a horseman... And to all here that can exchange serious thoughts intelligently with a minimum of rancor.

Not awhole lot to add to what was said. Great posts and the essence of what this board can do to inform and give perspective.

I know dogs are equated to 7 years for one human year, so what are horses. I'm just curious at 3 what age would they be in human years. I would guess about 10 - 12 years old maybe? If that's true, I have learned what giving a horse foundation over the last couple years and it really seems like two things working against each other i.e. lightly raced and getting foundation don't go together. Perhaps some kind of conditioning races should be made before allowing horses to compete at the higher level. I don;t vene like that idea as I write it but it appears that some new outlook on raining is needed. I remember people thinking Afleet Alex's trainer was strange galloping his horse for miles day and night.

On more thing, if the future has more troubles like this weekend, the storm of protest will grow, and chances are that it will. The answers are needed soon as in now to tackle some of these issues. As you get older it's amazing to look back at just how much things have changes. It's even more startling to realize they will change even more in the future.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmorioles

True and trainer win %'s werent the determining factor in who was good and who wasn't. I overheard a fairly big owner at Saratoga last summer tell his friend that he is sending horses to a guy who he doesn't consider to be a very good horseman but had a high win %. It is like only undefeated horses are any good. If horseracing was the NFL, the Patriots would have been retired after the Indy game because they had nothing left to prove and they wanted to go out undefeated.