He's just not what he used to be.

And what he used to be was good enough to score wins against competition that was more often than not less than stellar for the class level.

He's a fine racehorse and has certainly given good accounts of himself for most of his career, but I'm hard pressed off the top of my head to think of a time when he ran into a top-level racehorse without wilting.

always the go-to when anyone mentioned perfect drift in anything other than a favorable way.

That last race is a complete tossout. How do you all of a sudden try to rate a horse 9-10 lengths off the lead, in a Grade 1 race, when his success from stalking just off the pacesitter speaks for itself. I still disagree with the posted fractions of that race as well. No way, IMO, they went that fast for the first 6 panels.

also known as getting gritsed.

Im reaching Drugs, I know...throw me a bone here, will ya?

That made me laugh. It's only ridiculous if I form a definitive opinion before the draw but it's ok if the Master does it.

You have been REACHING since this horse was 2

At least you understand who's opinions are more qualified around here. That's a start.

I laughed

Huh? He got a perfect trip and got swallowed up.

What are you saying....unless he gets the most perfect trips possible he's barely competitive?

Come back when you know sh*t about horse racing....

Taking a horse out of his preferred, and highly succesful, running style qualifies as a perfect trip?

I've always known that it was your world and we are just trying to live in it. But don't u at least find it a bit hypocritical on your part to pick at me for doing it and then u come right back and do the same thing?

Only if you take it out of context.

You acted as though you handicapped the race and couldn't make a case for a mid-priced horse. I am suggesting that I am looking forward to betting against an odds-on favorite who has dressed up form. Two very different scenerios.

I think English Channel's last race will look much better on sheet-figures than it will look any other way.

He gave the winner six pounds at 12 furlongs - which I believe is like 2.9 lengths in weight on the sheets. And the winner, got a great ground saving ride from Calvin Borel, while EC was a little bit wide as I recall.

I'm positive EC came away with the better figure - even though he was beaten by 3 lengths...which is a large margin of victory in a turf race.

I don't think EC is as good as he once was either - but he was beat by a dream-trip winner as I remember, and weight shifts like that can mean a little something in turf marathons. Look at how 3yo's tend to dominate olders in the Arc.

Even if you excuse the loss in the Sword Dancer - his win in the UN came with a dream trip, and his Manhatten effort was blah.

Stalking slow paces is hardly a better trip than being slightly farther back against impossibly fast paces. All the pace did in the Sword Dancer was give the deeper closers a fairer chance than they usually have against English Channel. It didn't hurt him....it just helped another. He still ran his usual mediocre race.

How did I act as if anything? The odds of the horses in the races played no factor in what I said. And u trying to make it seem like u were talking only about betting against her is very weak. U were very clear in your analysis, saying she was hopeless here. The scenarios are the same. U know Ginger Punch and u know what's likely to be in the race against her and u don't like her chances. Same with me and Fabulous Strike in the Vosburgh.

again...I have a hard time believing the posted fractions in the Sword Dancer are correct.

hey its not hating . just like you told me with drift-it is what is. just not the same horse he was a year or 2 ago.