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-   -   "Hall/Fame" Santos; Charm; Veitch (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13691)

Kasept 05-29-2007 04:26 PM

Swoon's Son
 
Swoon’s Son was a top stakes horse during a four-season career in the 1950s. Bred and owned by Kentuckian E. Gay Drake, a charter member of the Thoroughbred Club of America, Swoon’s Son won 30 of 51 starts. When he was retired to stud in 1958, he was the fourth-leading money-winner in the world at $907,605.

For most of his career, Swoon’s Son raced in the Midwest, primarily at tracks in Chicago and Kentucky. He was trained by Lex Wilson and ridden in all but one race by Dave Erb. Swoon’s Son won 22 stakes, including the Arlington Futurity and Bashford Manor at two; the American Derby, Arlington Classic and Clark Handicap at three, and the Equipoise Mile Handicap at four and five. Notable horses that Swoon’s Son defeated were Preakness winner Fabius, Kentucky Derby-Belmont winner Needles, plus Round Table and Bardstown.

Drake’s grandson Jack Jones now operates the family’s Mineola Farm near Lexington, Ky. where Swoon’s Son was bred. Jones was a witness to Swoon’s Son’s success. “I was eight, nine, 10 years old at the time, but I’ve got fond memories of his racing career, as well as having been with Lex Wilson and Dave Erb,” Jones said.

“I’m just overjoyed with his election. I’m just sorry that my grandfather wasn’t alive to see this happen. I know it was his pride and joy and crowning achievement in all the years that he bred and raced horses along with his full brother Dogoon. They were running simultaneously during that period.”
Drake died in 1974.

SentToStud 05-29-2007 04:34 PM

Steve,
Thanks for these bio briefs. They're interesting reads.

Kasept 05-29-2007 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SentToStud
Steve,
Thanks for these bio briefs. They're interesting reads.

From the HOF press release today.. Had Mike Kane from the Museum on to kick off the show... Thought people would like learning about the less recent inductees!

SentToStud 05-29-2007 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kasept
From the HOF press release today.. Had Mike Kane from the Museum on to kick off the show... Thought people would like learning about the less recent inductees!

Caught a bit of the show around 4:30 or so. That was Peter Fuller on? That was a great filly, Mom's C.

Kasept 05-29-2007 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SentToStud
Caught a bit of the show around 4:30 or so. That was Peter Fuller on? That was a great filly, Mom's C.

Yup.. Fuller was super... Listen to the full interview on archives...

Cannon Shell 05-29-2007 04:57 PM

I still cant understand why all four of the fillies nominated could not be inducted at once. They are all surefire hall of famers and I cant understand why we only elect one horse per catagory if there are others that are deserving.

I never saw him ride but there is not much in the brief bio that Steve posted that leads me to believe Jonh Sellers should be in the hall. As for Santos, his career peaked 15 years ago and anyone who has watched him ride in the last 10 years certainly wasn't thinking hall of fame. Swoon Song while seemingly a nice horse also does not seem be screaming for induction.
Silver Charm was a no brainer and John Veitch trained 4 champions in addition to Alydar in a time where trainers did not have 200 horse stables so I guess he should be in too.

The Indomitable DrugS 05-29-2007 05:08 PM

Inside Informaion and Manila are both very deserving.

Manila might be the best turf horse of all the greats I've seen film on....he also has accomplishments to back the talent up---with a 14-11-3-0 record on turf---and a perfect 5-for-5 record in Grade 1 turf races.

Manila beat the deepest Breeders Cup Turf field of all-time, and Inside Information obliterated what was very likely the deepest Breeders Cup Distaff field of all-time...running a faster figure than Cigar did in his BC Classic win later on in the card...albeit, that race came over a sloppy track.

Cannon Shell 05-29-2007 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS
Inside Informaion and Manila are both very deserving.

Manila might be the best turf horse of all the greats I've seen film on....he also has accomplishments to back the talent up---with a 14-11-3-0 record on turf---and a perfect 5-for-5 record in Grade 1 turf races.

Manila beat the deepest Breeders Cup Turf field of all-time, and Inside Information obliterated what was very likely the deepest Breeders Cup Distaff field of all-time...running a faster figure than Cigar did in his BC Classic win later on in the card...albeit, that race came over a sloppy track.

Both no brainers..

Wouldn't it be a better system to vote for all the horses that you feel are hall of famers rather than vote against the nominees that are put up next to you? If a horse has Hall of fame credentials then they should be in. If all the nominees are deserving then so be it. As for the people canadates....

Cannon Shell 05-29-2007 05:22 PM

Of course many of the voters spend as much time and effort as do the drunks at the Yankee game punching out their all star ballots.

The Indomitable DrugS 05-29-2007 05:33 PM

I agree with you.

I think we need more horses going in and less people.

Even a good case could be made for a horse like Best Pal, who was tremendously popular out West.

* He was a Multiple Grade 1 winner at age 2.

* Won the Pacific Classic as a 3-year-old after a 2nd place finish in the KY Derby earlier in the year.

* Won three Grade 1's at age four---including the highest Beyer figure ever published for a Santa Anita Handicap winner.

* Won the Hollywood Gold Cup at age 5...and actually ran 2nd in a Grade 1 race on turf.

* Was a multiple stakes winner at age 6...including a 2nd place finish in the Pacific Classic.

* Won the Grade 2 San Antonio at age 7, including a 2nd place finish in the Santa Anita Handicap.

Racked up over $5.6 million in earnings, all in America, throughout the 1990's.

Cannon Shell 05-29-2007 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS
I agree with you.

I think we need more horses going in and less people.

Even a good case could be made for a horse like Best Pal, who was tremendously popular out West.

* He was a Multiple Grade 1 winner at age 2.

* Won the Pacific Classic as a 3-year-old after a 2nd place finish in the KY Derby earlier in the year.

* Won three Grade 1's at age four---including the highest Beyer figure ever published for a Santa Anita Handicap winner.

* Won the Hollywood Gold Cup at age 5...and actually ran 2nd in a Grade 1 race on turf.

* Was a multiple stakes winner at age 6...including a 2nd place finish in the Pacific Classic.

* Won the Grade 2 San Antonio at age 7, including a 2nd place finish in the Santa Anita Handicap.

Racked up over $5.6 million in earnings, all in America, throughout the 1990's.

He is probably worthy. I really thought that all of the modern horses should be in

The Indomitable DrugS 05-29-2007 05:51 PM

The one who I thought was probably the least worthy was Silverbulletday.

While she totally cleaned out and dominated her own division....the fact that she never was able to score a Graded Stakes win against older fillies and mares...and had quite a few cracks at her elders...should probably be enough to keep her out.

Swale84 05-29-2007 06:08 PM

Moms Command
Looking at her pp's, there were some nice betting scores early in her career.
44-1, 19-1 and 17-1

ELA 05-29-2007 07:27 PM

Please allow the editorial lattitude, with help from the Hall of Fame Museum --

Jose Santos, 46, the rider of the Kentucky Derby, Preakness and Jockey Club Gold Cup winner Funny Cide, was born in Chile and recorded his first victory there in 1976.

He arrived in the United States on January 3, 1984 and quickly established himself as a prominent rider. He was the nation’s leading rider in earnings for four consecutive years, from 1986 to 1989, and was the Eclipse Award-winning jockey in 1988 when he set a record for purse earnings of $14,856,214. Through December 31, 2006, Equibase statistics show Santos had 4,076 victories in North America with purse earnings of $186,936,820.

In addition to Funny Cide, he has been the regular rider or frequent rider of champions Manila, Meadow Star, Criminal Type, Chief Bearhart, Fleet Indian, Fly So Free and Rubiano. “It’s a great honor just to be nominated and to be elected to the Hall of Fame is even bigger,” Santos said. “I know the history of the Hall of Fame in the United States, that it is all of the best. To be joining them, I don’t have words to express myself.” Santos is recovering from injuries he sustained in a spill at Aqueduct in February and is considering a return to riding.

In North America through December 31, 2006, Santos had won 331 graded stakes and a total of 608 stakes. Santos has won the Jockey Club Gold Cup three times, the United Nations Handicap four times; he has three wins in the Personal Ensign, the Spinaway, the Pegasus, the Carter Handicap and the Withers, and two wins in the Breeders’ Cup Turf, the Breeders’ Cup Juvenile, the Arlington Million, Coaching Club American Oaks, Cigar Mile, Caesar’s International, Florida Derby, Flower Bowl, Futurity, Hawthorne Gold Cup, Haskell, Jerome, Man o’ War, Matron, Metropolitan, Turf Classic and Whitney. Santos has won a total of seven Breeders’ Cup races. In 2006, he won six stakes with Fleet Indian.

In addition, as pointed out -- Jose Santos is one of only five jocks in the history of the game to lead the nation in earnings for four straight years.

He is a member of that club with Laffit Pincay, Willie Shoemaker, Braulio Baeza, and Jerry Bailey.


The rules, requirements, etc. on eligibility is a topic within itself. Comparing who should or should not have gotten in is natural. Liking one and not the other is also natural.

However, when looking at one's career and speaking to whether or not one is deserving of this great honor, of course it is important to look at merit, performance, accomplishments, recrods, stats, etc. We all know and understand that. Be that as it may, it is far more important to understand -- that while taking those things into consideration -- that we also understand the importance that one's career needs to be looked at in totality, as an entire career, across a spectrum of accomplishments and acheivements.

Even before I came to know Jose, and before he became a client, I was a fan of his, of course from afar. However, since then, I have come to know Jose Santos -- the man, as well as Jose Santos the jockey. In this type of discussion, pros and cons, of course we all know that we all have our flaws and faults. We all have our good days and bad. Fortunately, for many of us, we are not in an industry where we are under the microscope of the public eye. We are not subject to the scrutiny and watchful eye of the masses and the public. And that's OK, it's part of the game for those that are.

It has not only been an honor and privilege to have come to know Jose Santos -- but far more important, to also consider and call him a friend.

Congratulations to all of the inductees!!!

Eric

Cajungator26 05-29-2007 08:05 PM

Congrats to the champ! :D


philcski 05-29-2007 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS
I'm pretty sure that Silver Charm will be the first OBS April 2yo sale grad to make the Hall of Fame.

There's been other Derby winners to come from that sale (at least Lil E Tee) and other Dubai World Cup winners from that sale (Roses In May) but, I highly doubt any other Hall of Famers came from out of there.

It's basically Ocala's 3rd string 2yo in training sale....pretty much a big ole fire sale.

Did anyone expect a son of the fairly average at stud Silver Buck would end up with a $6.9MM earner who won 3 of the 5 biggest races in the world, close seconds in the other two, and a multitude of other big wins? Silver Charm was a GREAT racehorse and I challenge anyone to dispute that.

philcski 05-29-2007 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS
I agree with you.

I think we need more horses going in and less people.

Even a good case could be made for a horse like Best Pal, who was tremendously popular out West.

* He was a Multiple Grade 1 winner at age 2.

* Won the Pacific Classic as a 3-year-old after a 2nd place finish in the KY Derby earlier in the year.

* Won three Grade 1's at age four---including the highest Beyer figure ever published for a Santa Anita Handicap winner.

* Won the Hollywood Gold Cup at age 5...and actually ran 2nd in a Grade 1 race on turf.

* Was a multiple stakes winner at age 6...including a 2nd place finish in the Pacific Classic.

* Won the Grade 2 San Antonio at age 7, including a 2nd place finish in the Santa Anita Handicap.

Racked up over $5.6 million in earnings, all in America, throughout the 1990's.

Better question is, why is he NOT in? He was Lava Man before Lava Man.

Kasept 05-29-2007 08:50 PM

Here's link to tonight's first hour.. Mike Kane of the HOF followed by Peter Fuller: http://www.attheracesandbeyond.com/stream/52907a.mp3

Fuller is a great listen...

The Indomitable DrugS 05-29-2007 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by philcski
Better question is, why is he NOT in? He was Lava Man before Lava Man.

Well....He was a multiple Grade 1 winning 2yo....and Lava Man was running in maiden claiming races at the fair circuits at that time in his career.

Best Pal will have a hard time getting into the Hall of Fame because he never won any major stake races East of Arkansas...and he notoriously didn't fire his best races on Breeders Cup day.

But he was as honest and hard hitting as race horses come. Based on his career versus Lava Man's as of today....I'd certainly take Best Pal.

Lava Man is going to have to win in the East---and even if he does---the fact that many voters might think he was a "move-up" by a trainer without the greatest repute in the game...that might hurt his chances as well.


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