He is a coach wrecker...team wrecker to be determined.

While he is obviously very good, I also think he is somewhat overrated.

Big Game James? Say what? Dude came up super small in the Finals. I hear, from his OKC days, it is more "never miss a party" James.

Check out some of the guys that got rings with the Bulls. Big deal.

I agree. He is kinda like Melo in that sense that they are both anointed as superstars. Both have had chances to win, neither have. Why when its Lebron and he was winning 60 games in Clevland and getting blasted by much better Spurs teams he was coming up small and could not win??? He still brought that horrible collection of talent to the finals. **** his Robin was Larry Hughes. Melo and Paul have never even made a finals.

Of course, but he has 7.

Listen I can admit it... Im a Harden fan. We all have guys we like. Clearly Chuck is a Melo fan. Harden is much younger though and in a better situation. If you asked GM's who was more likely to win a Championship Melo or Harden the answer has to be Harden.

He had an excellent series against SA in the Western Conference Finals the same year - 49% shooting, 18.5 PPG. Hell, his numbers for those playoffs altogether were strong - 44% FG, 41% 3PG and 16.3 PPG.

Chris Paul

I suggested this to a big CP fan friend of mine and was basically yelled at.
He's fantastic and all that, but is he the one to lead a team to the title?
I am beginning to seriously doubt it.

I am hardly the worlds biggest Carmelo Anthony fan but this is more ridiculous than usual. So Robert Horry who basically was a bench player that hit a few clutch shots while playing cheap for good teams is a player to be respected but Carmelo Anthony who averages 25 points and 7 rebounds for his career, has never missed the playoffs in 10 NBA years, has been on 2 Olympic Gold medal teams and was MOP of the Final 4 while leading his team to an NCAA championship is a bum?

The irony here is rich considering that Anthony may be playing as well right now as he has ever played. But with a supporting cast like Kenyon Martin, Beno Udrich and Ray Felton who wouldnt play well?

Byron Scott has proved to be a very ordinary NBA coach who got plenty of time in New Orleans. Monty Williams is still there. Del Negro made far fewer questionable decisions the one year that Paul was his PG.

Who would you rather have Rivers or Del Negro?

Honestly, I don't know. Rivers won with three great players in their prime. Does that make him a great coach? Again, I don't know. For the most part players make coaches. Are the Clippers any better this year than last? Doesn't look that way to me, but that could change come April/May.

Beside the point though. Paul used his influence and the threat of leaving to get Del Negro fired, that is all I was saying.

Is LeBron the new standard that everyone must measure up to not the exception? To be fair the year that LeBron's team made the finals in Cleveland the East was very weak. Plus how can you singlehandedly take a team to the Finals and still "come up small"?

Melo has ALWAYS WON! He has never played on a team with a losing record ever! Winning the championship is an idiotic way of measuring individual players. Please show me a single team that Carmelo Anthony or Chris Paul was on that had a prayer of winning the title?

Yeah, he happened to catch more than a few coattails to ride. He was clutch, but hardly a great player.

Steve Kerr has 5. Is he better than Chris Paul?

Rivers is also overrated as a coach. He had 3 superstars. I always hear people calling him the best coach in the NBA. Is he better then Pop? Jeff Van Gundy was a better coach then Doc IMO.

I think everyone would pretty much agree with this, except maybe Skip Bayless and his lot.

No.

But I never called him great. I said he was an OK defender, OK rebounder and super clutch.

According to PG1985 only the Finals and championships count. He was one of the chief reasons that OKC floundered in the Finals. His games 3 and 4 were awful.

Interestingly during the playoffs that year his best games were all in losses.

Fine. Melo is a champion and the best regular season player ever.

OKC floundered because they ran into a better team. A team with 2 first ballot Hall of Famers, you and I both agree Bosh will be, and Ray Allen is first ballot. Plus Lebron is the best ever. They just played a better team. It was not Hardens fault.

Based on what exactly? New Orleans and the Clippers rich tradition of winning and his failure to singlehandedly catapult them into model organzations like San Antonio and Miami?

You think if we subbed him for Tony Parker that SA doesnt win a few of those titles?

Most of his best games with the Rockets seem to come in losses as well. He is very selfish in close games, and aside from his defense, it is his biggest shortcoming.

The thought that championships are the only way to measure someone historically is the single dumbest thing in sports.

How does he compare to Ewing and Barkley...you know, the selfish scorers with no rings you brought up earlier?

People forget how close all those games were until Game 5. Harden killed the Thunder in 3 and 4. Average games by him and they probably win one or both. Pretty sure he was bad in the Game 1 too, and then had the nerve to complain about his playing time and number of shots in the locker room after a victory. He didn't make many friends that day.

Ray Allen wasn't on that team.

See my post to Chuck. People act like Miami steamrolled OKC, when that is very far from the truth.

I brought them up in comparision to Melo and I also said thats fine. Nothing wrong with being an all time great regular season guy.

Of course they didnt steamroll them OKC won game 1. Miami was the better team though, no? Maybe not much better, but Lebron was the X factor.

I'm obviously biased, but every time OKC meets the Clippers, Westbrook usually outplays Paul, or at the least matches him. So it gets old listening to how great Chris Paul is to be honest. Paul is obviously one of the top players in the league, I just don't think he is one of the 3 or 4 best like a lot of people claim.

Rivers is a good coach. Del Negro is not. Pretty simple.

Del Negro made so many obvious errors with substitutions and time outs that it is impossible to believe that there wasnt a lot missed that we didnt see. Griffin was as much of the reason they brought in Rivers as Paul. Basically Griffin had stopped listening to Del negro. VDN's playoff record is 10-19.


Jesus what games do you guys watch? Doc Rivers isnt a better coach than Del Negro? Robery Horry is better than Carmello Anthony? Chris Paul is incapable of winning a championship?

Lebron was Lebron, but what did the Thunder in was all the role players that seemingly could not miss a 3. Miller, Battier, Chalmers...

Like I said, every game except G5 came right down to the wire, and in games 3/4 Harden shot like 20%.

Who wins with bad players? Well other than Jeff Hornachek

No one is saying that but he clearly is a great player.

He is, but if they finish the season with about the same record and get bounced in the 1st round again, what does it matter?

I don't like players lobbying for new coaches, just old school I guess. Blake Griffin lobbying for a new coach is hilarious...dude has several flaws in his game that he hasn't improved much on. He should start there.

I prefer Westbrook and Curry all day over Paul. I like those athletic combo guys.
Russell has to get himself healthy. He is a guy I hated, but am now sold on. He is a super player.

It all started with Wilt and Russell. Russell was a great, great player but without the genius of Red Auerbach no one in 2014 thinks he was better than Wilt. Lot of those Celtics are in the hall of fame because they played on Boston and not Detroit or Cincinnati

Miami was the better team but in 3 of the 5 games Harden played poorly.

How about Gary Payton? Did winning a ring with the Heat legitimize him as a great player? I just don't think you can categorize players as great, just because they won a championship. Gary Payton was great with or without a ring.

What he's doing out there in Phoenix is really remarkable. It's going to be really tough to keep it up now with Bledsoe gone, but the Suns and their fans should be thrilled with the way that team plays...hardest playing team in the league.

Charles Barkley was a great player in the playoffs. He had some monstrous post seasons.