gomez...you suck....

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

... damn it....nice ride ..choke artist.. the 2 seemed to be choked down in the str ..no need to beef...after all i liked the nine and didnt play it..my bad...

[oracle80]

well after going back in forth over the race 7.i included that rat basterd...he hosed me..i had used the 9 last out god damn it....nice ride ..choke artist..


Hooves, been watching races for a living as an agent for quite some time now. I know some think I maye be extreme in my comments and I know many are just superficial watchers who wont grasp what i am saying, but I will step up your game Hooves!!!
I didn't use Bestowed but I will always watch a race dispassionately no matter who I bet or who I know in the race. Fact is Bestowed was probably best. Broke sharp and had great position into the turn. Instead of letting him run under a loose rein and letting the eventual winner clear off gradually and just holding his ground and stinging the winner a bit, Garrett overreacted and stood up and took a chokehold on him causing the horse to resent it, toss his head, and give up a lotta ground in just a few strides. Im grateful he sucks as I am alive in pik-4's but in reality you bet the right horse Hooves.
Unlike you guys, even if I win I will still tell you that you had teh right horse, and in this case you did. Gomez screwed you. Dickinson(trainer) now has 4 wins so far this year and its Memorial Day!!! LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Some master trainer genius he is huh?

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

Hooves, been watching races for a living as an agent for quite some time now. I know some think I maye be extreme in my comments and I know many are just superficial watchers who wont grasp what i am saying, but I will step up your game Hooves!!!
I didn't use Bestowed but I will always watch a race dispassionately no matter who I bet or who I know in the race. Fact is Bestowed was probably best. Broke sharp and had great position into the turn. Instead of letting him run under a loose rein and letting the eventual winner clear off gradually and just holding his ground and stinging the winner a bit, Garrett overreacted and stood up and took a chokehold on him causing the horse to resent it, toss his head, and give up a lotta ground in just a few strides. Im grateful he sucks as I am alive in pik-4's but in reality you bet the right horse Hooves.
Unlike you guys, even if I win I will still tell you that you had teh right horse, and in this case you did. Gomez screwed you. Dickinson(trainer) now has 4 wins so far this year and its Memorial Day!!! LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Some master trainer genius he is huh?he sure did chestertown was a horse i bet last out and figured to me to get caught by the 2....good on ya mate..glad your alive....

[belmont park is the best]

Mig took that race to school, stole it on the front end and its good to see the guy who suffered from another untimely injury have more wins at the meet than the guy who got to benefit from it.

People think that gomez is some kind of jockey god. Give him another agent than ron a and hes nowhere.

Gomez and Kent wont do any good at saratoga.

[Hoisttheflag]

Gomez has won me many a race. Bet against him at your own risk. The only thing worse than blaming a jockey is blaming a horse. You know who you are betting on when you put the money down.

[SentToStud]

And what happens once JRV returns and Garrett finds himsef getting on two or three a day? Maybe he's truly better than this but it's going to be interesting to see what happens in a couple weeks if he's still riding poorly. Room for one more at the Jersey shore?

[Hoisttheflag]

And what happens once JRV returns and Garrett finds himsef getting on two or three a day? Maybe he's truly better than this but it's going to be interesting to see what happens in a couple weeks if he's still riding poorly. Room for one more at the Jersey shore?


If he is so bad how did he get the best job in the business while JV is gone. Other than Prado, Castellano and Santos he has the highest win percentage. Pretty good for a guy "going to the shore".

[SentToStud]

If he is so bad how did he get the best job in the business while JV is gone. Other than Prado, Castellano and Santos he has the highest win percentage. Pretty good for a guy "going to the shore".

How'd he get the job? Perhaps he's the second best jock in the country, perhaps he's got the best agent. All I know is I wtched the past few Belmont cards and I think he won one race. That 20% meet percentage is going to be about 15% after this weekend. If he rides like he did this weekend for the next couple weeks, it will be under 10%. All I am saying is he's riding poor as heck right now. And maybe most of Todd Pletcher's horses need a race? I think he's a very stylish rider, but he's not doing too well right now.

A couple more weeks like this and he could be chasing Castro and Bravo at the beach.

[Scav]

Here is one obvservation that could be way off, but a decent theory. Pletcher is ALWAYS on fire at Saratoga, and with that coming up soon, he might not be drilling down on his horses just yet.

A perfect example is Flower Alley, he must think he is absolute monster and that he is going to win every major race he is in because if he doesn't get back soon, he will have no shot at HOY. Year is close to being half over.

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

How'd he get the job? Perhaps he's the second best jock in the country, perhaps he's got the best agent. All I know is I wtched the past few Belmont cards and I think he won one race. That 20% meet percentage is going to be about 15% after this weekend. If he rides like he did this weekend for the next couple weeks, it will be under 10%. All I am saying is he's riding poor as heck right now. And maybe most of Todd Pletcher's horses need a race? I think he's a very stylish rider, but he's not doing too well right now.

A couple more weeks like this and he could be chasing Castro and Bravo at the beach.
lol sent to.....jv returns fri....if all goes well go go bye bye.......hey i like eddie castro....team wolfson..got to like that combo...

[Crown@club]

lol sent to.....jv returns fri....if all goes well go go bye bye.......hey i like eddie castro....team wolfson..got to like that combo...

When they venture away.......its time to play!

[disappearingdan_akaplaya]

im gonna be all over johnny v on here when he returns, excuse me the"almighty" johnny v. bailey got nothing but knocked over on the other place and people said he was washed up etc etc the past few years, funny becuz he kicked johnny v's and every1 elses rear end in % last year and was screwed outta the eclipse

[oracle80]

im gonna be all over johnny v on here when he returns, excuse me the"almighty" johnny v. bailey got nothing but knocked over on the other place and people said he was washed up etc etc the past few years, funny becuz he kicked johnny v's and every1 elses rear end in % last year and was screwed outta the eclipse

Playa,
You gotta see reality ratherthan how you want reality to be. Johnny crsuhed every thing last year and made all the money. Percentage alone wont get you anything.
Gomez has broken a lotat guys lately and been exposed for what he is, a good physical rider with a brain the size of a pea who is VERY streaky.
I think thats become obvious. The real greats avoid being streaky like that and prasied for their consistency.
YOu wanna get all over Johnny V? Good luck to you. I've never seen the guy act unprofessionally and if hes not riding brilliantly at times, he makes sure to ride professionally and not make stupid errors like Gomez does.
The hallmark of any professional is his or her consistency.

[oracle80]

Gomez is one of the best riders alive. He really doesn't suck. But hes very inconsistent and frustrating at times. Jerry Bailey was asked about Edgar Prado as a jockey after the Derby and he said that Edgar was so very consistent and always showed up to do the job, day in and day out. He then said that some top jocks looked awesome at times and at other times looked average. I think he was elduing to Gomez with that statement.
I simply found all the comaprisons and allegations lately that Gomez was at Johnny V's level to be completely insane.
Johnny is at a level that few riders have ever reached. The wya he has ridden the last three years has been absolutely incredible. Hes just so perfect so much of the time that his skill was beginning to be taken for granted. He makes everything look so damn easy that people just didnt think he was doing anything special and was just on good horses. The thing is that top riders are supposed to do that. Every ride doesnt have to be a daredevil, overthought process. You dont need to save every inch of ground and knife through a hole when you are on the best horse. You just do your homework with the DRF, position the horse properly, and stay out of its way.

At some point Gomez will realize this. His agent is the best agent who ever hustled a jock's book. Hes just about the sharpest guy at the racetrack. I'm sure with Anderson's guidance that eventually he will become more consistent. Hes diplayed he has the incredible strength and physical ability and timing. He also posesses daredevil guts. Now hes just gotta start studying pp's better, knowing his own horse and the horses he is riding against, and realize that when you get to the level he has gotten to in terms of talent of his mounts, that he doesnt have to be the show by himself.

[disappearingdan_akaplaya]

well mike i think % does matter. after all you did state the word consistency and a riders% would indicate that wouldnt it? i think velasquez is a good jock i wont dispute that but i dont think hes great. there are a host of other guys i would ride over him or edgar anyday of the week. i think another former based MD rider like edgar himself that would ride edgar right outta his jock is ramon dominguez. edgar has all the physical skills on a horse but when i watch him ride sometimes i really wonder if this guy knows how to read a racing form or not

[Hoisttheflag]

Velasquez is like Frankel, you have to win the big one. Without the Derby you can never be a true great.

[oracle80]

Velasquez is like Frankel, you have to win the big one. Without the Derby you can never be a true great.
Oh thats rubbish and nonsense. Mandella, Pletcher,Frankel, etc have never won teh Derby and are great.
The Derby is one race, not the whole year or a career. Thats just nonsense.

[disappearingdan_akaplaya]

Oh thats rubbish and nonsense. Mandella, Pletcher,Frankel, etc have never won teh Derby and are great.
The Derby is one race, not the whole year or a career. Thats just nonsense.


agreed you not only have to have the horse but a tremendous amount of racing luck to win the derby

[oracle80]

well mike i think % does matter. after all you did state the word consistency and a riders% would indicate that wouldnt it? i think velasquez is a good jock i wont dispute that but i dont think hes great. there are a host of other guys i would ride over him or edgar anyday of the week. i think another former based MD rider like edgar himself that would ride edgar right outta his jock is ramon dominguez. edgar has all the physical skills on a horse but when i watch him ride sometimes i really wonder if this guy knows how to read a racing form or not
Playa you arent representing the truth in your assertation about Bailey last year. If you are gonna try and bs soemone, make sure it aint me, cause you wont ever get me.
Bailey by his own admission couldnt handle the rigors of everyday riding last year, so he cut his workload and only took high class allowance and stakes races with some Maidens and high priced claimers as well for top clients.
He didn't ride a full slate, so his % would naturally be higher just riding chosen mounts.
Any jock could do that and attain a high %. The guys who ride day in and day out all year long and win the money are the guys who get the awards, period.

[Hoisttheflag]

Oh thats rubbish and nonsense. Mandella, Pletcher,Frankel, etc have never won teh Derby and are great.
The Derby is one race, not the whole year or a career. Thats just nonsense.

Unfair, maybe. But that is the reality of it. You can't be put in the elite of the elite unless you win a Kentucky Derby.

[disappearingdan_akaplaya]

im not trying to BS anybody mike. im well aware bailey had less mounts and didnt ride as much on a daily basis. LOL what do you think bailey's % woulda been if he woulda rode first call for pletcher? and no not any jock could do that. in the races he rode in do you think he was on tons the best hors everytime, you think the horses he ran against were mules compared to his? bailey didnt decline near the end like other recently retired greats like day, mccaron etc etc

[Hoisttheflag]

agreed you not only have to have the horse but a tremendous amount of racing luck to win the derby

I guess Baffert, Lukas and Zito got lucky a few times. Some guys just are better at preparing for the big ones (can't get away with certain things in those big ones either).

[oracle80]

im not trying to BS anybody mike. im well aware bailey had less mounts and didnt ride as much on a daily basis. LOL what do you think bailey's % woulda been if he woulda rode first call for pletcher? and no not any jock could do that. in the races he rode in do you think he was on tons the best hors everytime, you think the horses he ran against were mules compared to his? bailey didnt decline near the end like other recently retired greats like day, mccaron etc etc
Ok Playa thats why he got SO MANY votes for the eclipse, everyone had it wrong/
Look there was a year or two when Jerry won teh eclipse on the basis of how much money he won riding a couple big horses where other guys had a better overall year. Thats how it works and you know it. The guy who wins the money gets the crown. Its a standard that is used in the industry. Jerry is an announcer now, and I have no idea why he is brought up by you in every discussion about jockeys who ride NOW!!!!!!
Gomez just sent patrons running to the bathroom to vomit with his 1-21 skid this weekend at Belmont.

[oracle80]

I guess Baffert, Lukas and Zito got lucky a few times. Some guys just are better at preparing for the big ones (can't get away with certain things in those big ones either).

I think that some guys aim for it and some don't. Whittingham never did, and had he not won one is his 80's are you telling me he wouldnt have gone down as a great? Get real will you.
And if your criteria is that winning a derby makes you great, then I guess you would place Cam Gambolati ahead of Frankel, pletcher and Mandella. Is thsi not so? After all, according to you he must be better at preparing for the "Big One"!!! Pletcher, Frankel, and Mandella have won over 100 grade ones betweem them I would say that outweighs winning one derby. What a joke.

[disappearingdan_akaplaya]

ok you dont think the eclipse award voting and process is manipulated. yes of cours eim a huge fan of perfect drift but how the hell wasnt he even a finalist for the award after beating mineshaft who recieved the award and beating congaree who was also nominated, PD only lost 1 race on the dirt that year.

[oracle80]

ok you dont think the eclipse award voting and process is manipulated. yes of cours eim a huge fan of perfect drift but how the hell wasnt he even a finalist for the award after beating mineshaft who recieved the award and beating congaree who was also nominated, PD only lost 1 race on the dirt that year.
Because Mineshaft only lost one as well, and all his races were big dances. PD took some free passes in smaller events. Its a year long award, not a one race award.
I'm sorry Playa, noone in the country, not one writer or horseman or jockey ever at any time voiced any opinion that Bailey got screwed last year.

[disappearingdan_akaplaya]

i didnt ask why he didnt recieve the eclipse mike im asking why he wasnt a finalist while medags and congaree were. i dont claim 2 know all or whatever but i can careless about what the majority of the turf writers have to say about anything, especially when theyre making opinionated based statements

[Hoisttheflag]

I think that some guys aim for it and some don't. Whittingham never did, and had he not won one is his 80's are you telling me he wouldnt have gone down as a great? Get real will you.
And if your criteria is that winning a derby makes you great, then I guess you would place Cam Gambolati ahead of Frankel, pletcher and Mandella. Is thsi not so? After all, according to you he must be better at preparing for the "Big One"!!! Pletcher, Frankel, and Mandella have won over 100 grade ones betweem them I would say that outweighs winning one derby. What a joke.


But he did win his derby and that moment put him in the elite of the elite. In fact that race is what he is known for this day. Also, winning a derby doesn't make you great. You can win a derby and not be great, but without one you can't reach the level of immortality that it gives to the winners. Baffert, Zito, Lukas all are a rung above the others because of their derbys. There isn't an honest trainer that would tell you otherwise.

[oracle80]

i didnt ask why he didnt recieve the eclipse mike im asking why he wasnt a finalist while medags and congaree were. i dont claim 2 know all or whatever but i can careless about what the majority of the turf writers have to say about anything, especially when theyre making opinionated based statements
Ok look, you are talking about something that noone cares about. And i wil tell you why. When tehy announce finalists, they put the top three vote getters in. In some cases (like Mineshaft) the winner is an avalanche winner. And like 10 clueless souls vote other horses. It was like PD and two others who got like 7,6, and 5 votes.
They werent doing tiered voting then(like they do for MVP of AL for example, where you vote for 1st 2nd 3rd etc. YOu only get one vote. And everyone knew who the champ was. Noone cares or keeps track of who was 2nd and 3rd or a finalist. They dont even put it in breeding catalogues.

[oracle80]

But he did win his derby and that moment put him in the elite of the elite. In fact that race is what he is known for this day. Also, winning a derby doesn't make you great. You can win a derby and not be great, but without one you can't reach the level of immortality that it gives to the winners. Baffert, Zito, Lukas all are a rung above the others because of their derbys. There isn't an honest trainer that would tell you otherwise.

Ok so you just said that Cam Gambolati is among the elite of the elite? And you want me to ever take one thing you ever say again seriously? You have to be kidding me.
Go find one more lunatic alive who thinks hes above Frankel, mandella and Pletcher in terms of greatness. WOW!!! Now I have heard everything!!!!

[disappearingdan_akaplaya]

thanks for explaining. now my question is is who all gets a ballot to vote. the chartcaller here claims he gets to vote

[oracle80]

thanks for explaining. now my question is is who all gets a ballot to vote. the chartcaller here claims he gets to vote
LOL!!!
Playa he might!!!!!
But the thing is each year i do a mockery of some horses that people actually vote for and its sickening. Some guys should have those privileges yanked!!!!

[oracle80]

Playa by the way, if they had doen tiered voting that year, PD would definitely have been second.

[Hoisttheflag]

Ok so you just said that Cam Gambolati is among the elite of the elite? And you want me to ever take one thing you ever say again seriously? You have to be kidding me.
Go find one more lunatic alive who thinks hes above Frankel, mandella and Pletcher in terms of greatness. WOW!!! Now I have heard everything!!!!

Cam isn't the elite of the elite. He is just a good trainer that won a derby. Baffert, Lukas, Zito are elite of elites. You have to be a great trainer that wins the derby. Sorry if you don't like it, but the sport revolves around the derby. Frankel is great, but Frankel with a derby puts him with the immortals. Just the way it is.

[oracle80]

Cam isn't the elite of the elite. He is just a good trainer that won a derby. Baffert, Lukas, Zito are elite of elites. You have to be a great trainer that wins the derby. Sorry if you don't like it, but the sport revolves around the derby. Frankel is great, but Frankel with a derby puts him with the immortals. Just the way it is.

Maybe to you. But you arent the standard for deciding greatness. Its more of a people involved within and industry that decides that.
So lets have a poll shall we?
I say that the majority of people in the game deem Pletcher, Frankel, and Mandella as greats. What say you everyone?

Besides that, you must be an older guy. This game has changed and does not revolve around teh Derby. It revolves around the Breeders Cup. It is taht day that decides champions!!

[Hoisttheflag]

Maybe to you. But you arent the standard for deciding greatness. Its more of a people involved within and industry that decides that.
So lets have a poll shall we?
I say that the majority of people in the game deem Pletcher, Frankel, and Mandella as greats. What say you everyone?

Besides that, you must be an older guy. This game has changed and does not revolve around teh Derby. It revolves around the Breeders Cup. It is taht day that decides champions!!


They are greats but not immortals. As for the game, it will always revolve around the derby. How many people know Ghostzapper outside of racing? None. Secretariat, Barbaro, Seattle Slew, Affirmed, are all household names because they are derby winners that were great horses. There is not one person in the industry that would rather win a BC Classic than a Derby. Not one.

[oracle80]

They are greats but not immortals. As for the game, it will always revolve around the derby. How many people know Ghostzapper outside of racing? None. Secretariat, Barbaro, Seattle Slew, Affirmed, are all household names because they are derby winners that were great horses. There is not one person in the industry that would rather win a BC Classic than a Derby. Not one.
Frankel would. More cash!!

[Hoisttheflag]

Frankel would. More cash!!

To this day Frankel loses sleep over Empire Maker. Frankel would trade that Ghostzapper BC Classic for an Empire Maker derby win any day. That guy talked about Empire Maker the day he was born, that is how badly he wants a derby. Until he gets what Baffert has three of he will always be looked at as inferior to Baffert. My friend told me Frankel constantly talks about how he desperately wants to be the first triple crown winner in years.

[Crown@club]

Just a guess, but does this mean Tim Ritchey, Victor Espinoza, John Servis, and Stew Elliot are greater than Frankel, Pletcher and JohnnyV

Right