Why No Big Race Today at Belmont

[Exceller]

Kentucky has the Oaks, Pimlico the Pimlico Special, and Belmont gives us some garbage stakes race. NYRA couldn't do any better than this?

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

You know, I have thought about that a lot, and I definitely think that the format leading up to the Belmont Stakes should be like that of the Derby. A big race the day before starts the weekend off with a little more buzz and excitement!

[oracle80]

Kentucky has the Oaks, Pimlico the Pimlico Special, and Belmont gives us some garbage stakes race. NYRA couldn't do any better than this?
Exceller, this is dumb. NYRA used to run the Acorn on the day before, a grade one. But they moved that to the big day this year and i like it. WHo cares about the day before? They have 3 grade one's and a grade 2 tomorrow. They just werent drawing much of a crowd the day before, so they moved the Acorn. By the way, one of those "garbage stakes races" is a grade three stakes race, the Hill Prince. The first time you win a graded stakes race with one of your horses, you will be proud as hell and crowing. So I don't really think calling a grade three race garbage is quite accurate.

[Exceller]

They used to put the Acorn there but now they give us the Hill Prince and Queen of Song stakes. Why would anyone travel there for a weekend when you get one decent day of racing.

[Exceller]

Exceller, this is dumb. NYRA used to run the Acorn on the day before, a grade one. But they moved that to the big day this year and i like it. WHo cares about the day before? They have 3 grade one's and a grade 2 tomorrow. They just werent drawing much of a crowd the day before, so they moved the Acorn. By the way, one of those "garbage stakes races" is a grade three stakes race, the Hill Prince. The first time you win a graded stakes race with one of your horses, you will be proud as hell and crowing. So I don't really think calling a grade three race garbage is quite accurate.


Sure Kentucky Oaks, Pimlico Special and.... the Hill Prince? They don't get a crowd there because they are not good at marketing. It is NY, they can't come up with a marketing plan and a real stakes race? How about bringing in a big name band and putting a Stakes race for older horses in there. Tie it into a Friday Mets game or something. NYRA is clueless compared to the two big groups that run Churchill and Pimlico. Pimlico is a terrible track and they still pack them in on Friday before the Preakness.

[oracle80]

They used to put the Acorn there but now they give us the Hill Prince and Queen of Song stakes. Why would anyone travel there for a weekend when you get one decent day of racing.
Well Sunday's card isnt bad either. You guys forget something, Pimlico runs NOTHING graded the rest of the ENTIRE MEET!!! They empty it all out that weekend. CD runs very few graded anything after that week as well. They have Foster day, but the weekend stakes other that than those two weekends are weak.
Belmont puts on graded stakes every weekend, and also has a spectacular July 4th weekend. WHy empty the whole thing out and screw everyone the rest of the summer? I mean what else do you suggest they run? They have a grade two sprint, a grade 1 grass race, the belmont, a grade 1 for 3yo fillies, a gade 2 for grass fillies, a graded turf race for three year old colts today, and a grade two tomorrow for 3 yo sprinters! What exactly are we missing? the only thing we are missing is an older horse race for the handicap division. Theytried that last year but since the Pim Special was only three weeks ago, the Met just two weeks ago, and the Foster approaching, who would run in it? What divisions are we missing here?

[Cajungator26]

Sure Kentucky Oaks, Pimlico Special and.... the Hill Prince? They don't get a crowd there because they are not good at marketing. It is NY, they can't come up with a marketing plan and a real stakes race? How about bringing in a big name band and putting a Stakes race for older horses in there. Tie it into a Friday Mets game or something. NYRA is clueless compared to the two big groups that run Churchill and Pimlico. Pimlico is a terrible track and they still pack them in on Friday before the Preakness.

Pimlico is different in that (normally), the Kentucky Derby winner is contending for another win and a chance at the triple crown. Once the Preakness is done, the amount of people at Belmont will be largely determined on whether or not we have a triple crown contender.

[oracle80]

Sure Kentucky Oaks, Pimlico Special and.... the Hill Prince? They don't get a crowd there because they are not good at marketing. It is NY, they can't come up with a marketing plan and a real stakes race? How about bringing in a big name band and putting a Stakes race for older horses in there. Tie it into a Friday Mets game or something. NYRA is clueless compared to the two big groups that run Churchill and Pimlico. Pimlico is a terrible track and they still pack them in on Friday before the Preakness.
LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! yeah ok, wanna compare the meet longhandle at belmont with CD's? Or Pimlico? Give me a break, NYRA runs a great product for months, the other two for 2-3 days. Wanan check out handle on the three meets this year and compare numbers when they are done.
M/L odds on highets handle for meet
Belmont 1-9
CD 100-1
Pimlico- 1000000000000000-1

[Exceller]

Pimlico is different in that (normally), the Kentucky Derby winner is contending for another win and a chance at the triple crown. Once the Preakness is done, the amount of people at Belmont will be largely determined on whether or not we have a triple crown contender.

Not sure what your point is. If Barbaro was going for the triple crown the friday stakes race would still be the Hill Prince. That Friday is poorly marketed. They didn't get anyone there even when a TC was on the line.

[Cajungator26]

Not sure what your point is. If Barbaro was going for the triple crown the friday stakes race would still be the Hill Prince. That Friday is poorly marketed. They didn't get anyone there even when a TC was on the line.

My point is... people don't come to Pimlico on Friday because of the special... they come to be around the hype. If there were hype this year, it wouldn't matter WHAT was being run today. People would be there.

[Exceller]

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! yeah ok, wanna compare the meet longhandle at belmont with CD's? Or Pimlico? Give me a break, NYRA runs a great product for months, the other two for 2-3 days. Wanan check out handle on the three meets this year and compare numbers when they are done.
M/L odds on highets handle for meet
Belmont 1-9
CD 100-1
Pimlico- 1000000000000000-1

NYRA is on the way out. Stronach will own it in a few years and then you will see how to market. Too much corruption caught up with NYRA. You can only buy off politicians for so long.

[Exceller]

My point is... people don't come to Pimlico on Friday because of the special... they come to be around the hype. If there were hype this year, it wouldn't matter WHAT was being run today. People would be there.

Not true. The Friday in NY never amounted to anything and the hype for the last leg of the TC is much bigger if a horse has 2 of the 3 already won. NYRA just makes zero effort. That is why they are losing their franchise.

[oracle80]

Not true. The Friday in NY never amounted to anything and the hype for the last leg of the TC is much bigger if a horse has 2 of the 3 already won. NYRA just makes zero effort. That is why they are losing their franchise.
Stronach has virtually no chnace of getting the franchise.
Do you know a lot about NYRA? have you researched it yourself? Or are you just listening to someone supporting the Empire group? I'm wondering how much time you have spent around NYRA tracks and how you formed the opinion on them. What are your thoughts on what they have done wrong or right? Your thoughts.

[Exceller]

Stronach has virtually no chnace of getting the franchise.
Do you know a lot about NYRA? have you researched it yourself? Or are you just listening to someone supporting the Empire group? I'm wondering how much time you have spent around NYRA tracks and how you formed the opinion on them. What are your thoughts on what they have done wrong or right? Your thoughts.

Bill Clinton is now involved with the Stronach group and with Elliot Spitzer as NY's next governor, you can be 100% sure that they will get the franchise. Spitzer is delusional and thinks he is going to be president one day.

[oracle80]

Bill Clinton is now involved with the Stronach group and with Elliot Spitzer as NY's next governor, you can be 100% sure that they will get the franchise. Spitzer is delusional and thinks he is going to be president one day.


Exceller you are about two years behiind the Clinton thing, for real. hes been with them for over two years. And Spitzer doesnt have the whole say. fact is, they own the land. They have 50 years of property tax bills to prove it. Some pretty shrewd legal minds have examined this and precedent tried and true in these land ownership matters is that they guys who pay teh property tax own the land. Imagine if the state had to repay 50 years of property tax with compounding interest? How many billions would that be?
In the end that dispute will cause Nyra to retain the franchise in a new structure, bringing in a gaming company to run the slots.
Lemme give you another little hint about politicos, there is nothing they like better than influence and control. They sell the franchise rights to a private interest group, and they no longer have any control over NY racing. Like THATS gonna happen.

[Suffolk Shippers]

Kentucky has the Oaks, Pimlico the Pimlico Special, and Belmont gives us some garbage stakes race. NYRA couldn't do any better than this?

The atmosphere in NY is different from that of either Kentucky or Maryland. In KY, the Oaks/Derby is a social event, it basically defines the entire region and everyone who is anyone turns out, fan or not. That's why CD can stretch 2 days out of it.

In Maryland, Pimlico is a dump, not sure if you noticed. The only graded stakes they run are on Preakness weekend and they cant fit them all in one afternoon, so they do Friday too. Go to Pimlico on some random Thursday and enjoy $17,500 claimers as the feature. It is also somewhat of a weekend event because it is a crowning acheivement for the industry in that state.

NY is totally different. NYRA runs solid cards year round, and the Belmont is much less a social event weekend like in Maryland or Kentucky just because it's NYC. There are countless things to do, especially sports wise. On any given weekend, the Mets and Yankees could both be in town, maybe playing rivals like the Braves and Red Sox? Outside of sports, there is a boat load of crap to do as well. What else are you going to do in Kentucky anyways?
Least in Maryland, you could go over to the coast or down to Baltimore.

The Belmont will only be a true event when the Triple Crown is being contested and thats fine with me.

[Exceller]

Exceller you are about two years behiind the Clinton thing, for real. hes been with them for over two years. And Spitzer doesnt have the whole say. fact is, they own the land. They have 50 years of property tax bills to prove it. Some pretty shrewd legal minds have examined this and precedent tried and true in these land ownership matters is that they guys who pay teh property tax own the land. Imagine if the state had to repay 50 years of property tax with compounding interest? How many billions would that be?
In the end that dispute will cause Nyra to retain the franchise in a new structure, bringing in a gaming company to run the slots.
Lemme give you another little hint about politicos, there is nothing they like better than influence and control. They sell the franchise rights to a private interest group, and they no longer have any control over NY racing. Like THATS gonna happen.

Clinton has been with them for two years but NYRA had the contract. That contract is now just about up. That franchise is gone. 100% positive on that. Both NY Senators are now in with the Stronach people and the incoming governor wants Stronach to get it. Private business always wins out. The issue now is just the price they have to pay and what cut the state is going to keep of the slots. THEY DO NOT OWN THE LAND EITHER. The legislature says the state owns the land and I have a feeling the taxpayers are going to say the government owns the land too. BYE BYE NYRA. It is about time that corrupt group hit the road.

[oracle80]

The atmosphere in NY is different from that of either Kentucky or Maryland. In KY, the Oaks/Derby is a social event, it basically defines the entire region and everyone who is anyone turns out, fan or not. That's why CD can stretch 2 days out of it.

In Maryland, Pimlico is a dump, not sure if you noticed. The only graded stakes they run are on Preakness weekend and they cant fit them all in one afternoon, so they do Friday too. Go to Pimlico on some random Thursday and enjoy $17,500 claimers as the feature. It is also somewhat of a weekend event because it is a crowning acheivement for the industry in that state.

NY is totally different. NYRA runs solid cards year round, and the Belmont is much less a social event weekend like in Maryland or Kentucky just because it's NYC. There are countless things to do, especially sports wise. On any given weekend, the Mets and Yankees could both be in town, maybe playing rivals like the Braves and Red Sox? Outside of sports, there is a boat load of crap to do as well. What else are you going to do in Kentucky anyways?
Least in Maryland, you could go over to the coast or down to Baltimore.

The Belmont will only be a true event when the Triple Crown is being contested and thats fine with me.

LOL!!!! Yeah, what else would you do there?

[Exceller]

LOL!!!! Yeah, what else would you do there?

Plenty to do in MD/DC. Last I checked it was the nations capital.

[oracle80]

Clinton has been with them for two years but NYRA had the contract. That contract is now just about up. That franchise is gone. 100% positive on that. Both NY Senators are now in with the Stronach people and the incoming governor wants Stronach to get it. Private business always wins out. The issue now is just the price they have to pay and what cut the state is going to keep of the slots. THEY DO NOT OWN THE LAND EITHER. The legislature says the state owns the land and I have a feeling the taxpayers are going to say the government owns the land too. BYE BYE NYRA. It is about time that corrupt group hit the road.


I see, very insightful and well thought answer. Hmm, the legislature says they won teh land? Well lemme know when the legislature has any judicial power on such matters!! LOL!! You might as well say that YOU say they own the land, lol, it would have just about the same legal validity.
Again I ask, if youaren't just parroting info that someone has given you, in say a newsletter, what are the specific gripes you have with NYRA and they way they have treated horseman and customers? What problems do you have with the facilities themselves, and the prices of things. ANy problems with stall allocations? I was hoping you might have something of interest to add to the conversation in terms of specific things you have a problem with.
All I'm hearing is rhetoric that certain folks associated with teh factions trying to get control spout all the time.

[Exceller]

I see, very insightful and well thought answer. Hmm, the legislature says they won teh land? Well lemme know when the legislature has any judicial power on such matters!! LOL!! You might as well say that YOU say they own the land, lol, it would have just about the same legal validity.
Again I ask, if youaren't just parroting info that someone has given you, in say a newsletter, what are the specific gripes you have with NYRA and they way they have treated horseman and customers? What problems do you have with the facilities themselves, and the prices of things. ANy problems with stall allocations? I was hoping you might have something of interest to add to the conversation in terms of specific things you have a problem with.
All I'm hearing is rhetoric that certain folks associated with teh factions trying to get control spout all the time.

Ok. The former attorney general/governor, a former president, the likely nominee for president are going to allow some judge to decide the case against them. Lets see if those property taxes returned are as much as the Stronach offer and then you will see who wins. Money always wins out in these cases. ALWAYS. NYRA is a corrupt organization that loses money. Big Money and the state wants the huge influx of cash. Watch how the future of education in NY will be marketed as depending on whether Stronach wins the bid. The 3 most popular politicians in the state, one considered a God by NYers will flush NYRA down the toilet real quickly.

[oracle80]

Exceller Im still hysterically laughing on the legislature comment. Now maybe you didnt take poli sci in college or high school. But we have this kinda neat checks and balances system, and in the system under which we operate. Legislature makes the laws, they sure as hell don't rule on legalities!!! That would be the JUDICIAL branch. You know, judges and all that good stuff.

[oracle80]

Ok. The former attorney general/governor, a former president, the likely nominee for president are going to allow some judge to decide the case against them. Lets see if those property taxes returned are as much as the Stronach offer and then you will see who wins. Money always wins out in these cases. ALWAYS. NYRA is a corrupt organization that loses money. Big Money and the state wants the huge influx of cash. Watch how the future of education in NY will be marketed as depending on whether Stronach wins the bid. The 3 most popular politicians in the state, one considered a God by NYers will flush NYRA down the toilet real quickly.
Still waitiing for those thoughts formed by you and specific problem that you have with them. Sure sounds like a group newsletter rhetoric recital to me. Lemme know when you have any valid examples of things you know about first hand, or any of those questions I asked, which werent hard ones, if you have veer raced or attended the races here.

[Exceller]

Exceller Im still hysterically laughing on the legislature comment. Now maybe you didnt take poli sci in college or high school. But we have this kinda neat checks and balances system, and in the system under which we operate. Legislature makes the laws, they sure as hell don't rule on legalities!!! That would be the JUDICIAL branch. You know, judges and all that good stuff.

I can assure you I know how how the political world works better than you. Judges are owned by people and often appointed by politicians. The legislature in NY, which controls the purse strings, will win the battle because they want the money. Judges, especially in NY, are corrupt to the bone. You can buy off any of them. Checks and Balances work pretty well at the federal level but are useless at the state level. I see that checks and balances working real well in DC right now. LOL. Stick to your textbooks, I live in the real world.

[Exceller]

Still waitiing for those thoughts formed by you and specific problem that you have with them. Sure sounds like a group newsletter rhetoric recital to me. Lemme know when you have any valid examples of things you know about first hand, or any of those questions I asked, which werent hard ones, if you have veer raced or attended the races here.

My problem with them is that they lose money. There are jockey weight scandals, it is a cesspool. There are corrupt trainers that drug their horses and get away with it because they pay off people. NYRA is a joke.

http://www.oag.state.ny.us/press/2003/jun/jun14a_03.html

[Pointg5]

I like that they put the Acorn tomorrow, wide open race and will help out the exotic pools. My big problem with tomorrow is that allowance race for State Breds, seems like if they want a state bred race they should have made it a stakes race. It seems like the NY Breds are really good or incredibly average, I hate that race in there tomorrow...

[Crown@club]

How is Clinton involved with Stronach?

Am I that far out of the loop. I thought Magna and Churchill were teaming up to acquire NYRA?

[Exceller]

How is Clinton involved with Stronach?

Am I that far out of the loop. I thought Magna and Churchill were teaming up to acquire NYRA?

Clinton has been involved with Stronach for some time. Some say he is involved with his daughter too. No joke.

You can see why.
http://www.gregking.ca/adventure/20040701/IMG_6146.JPG