Keeneland?

[pmayjr]

This might be a little pre-mature, but is anyone considering doing Keeneland's handicapping contest in the first weekend of December? It's a top-notch contest (eventhough I haven't done very well there). Just wonderin if any of you guys might wanna meet up?

[BellamyRd.]

yikes handicapping in December, what are we going to do, HoosierDaddy Downs?

[SentToStud]

yikes handicapping in December, what are we going to do, HoosierDaddy Downs?

BR,

I'm sure California tracks are running.

Calder always puts up a great December. No G1's but Calder does run nine G2/G3 races as well as seven or eight other stakes of $100k + between Dec. 2 and Jan.1. Calder's late fall Allowance races are also high quality, especially on the turf.

[pmayjr]

Actually that's kinda a huge misconception about contests- that you need big time racing to make them worthwhile. It actually the opposite of that. Wide open claiming and allowance races are what makes contests so good. Not Grade 1s with 7 horse fields. There have been contests oragnaizers (I'm not pointing the Prairie Meadows people out... nope not them lol) that don't understand this either.

Contests can be run 2 ways IMO- 1 way is to let the individual bettor pick the races he is to bet on (and sometimes even the type of bet and the amount)

The other is for the contest organizers to pick the races, as long as they are finding wide opend races with big fields.

Keeneland runs theres as kind of a mix between the 2, but they do it right- They give you about 10 different tracks you can bet on, any race, and they say "you're making 10 mythical $2 WP bets on any race you want". But only 1 horse per race...

Hoosier's July 4th weekend contest runs theirs like the 2nd example. They pick each race that you'll do (everyone in the contest does all the same races), but they pick good, wide open affairs.

So seriosuly, the calibur of racing might suck in December. But as long as you can find a few wide-open claiming evets, that's all you need to runa good contest. If you're just into betting graded stakes races, I'd say most contests aren't for you.

For additional info, go to DRF.com or you can go to the specific track's webpage to figure it out. As for keeneland they throw in a kick-ass buffet and free drinks (not sure if booze is free, but coffee and soda are).

[pmayjr]

That would be fine, but unfortunately I'm probably not driving. It's a $100 contest, but it turns into a $500 venture for me with travel. I don't care, because it's what I love. I lost a top 10 finish and a profitable trip literally by a neck last year, so my luck hasn't been too good. But it keeps me hungry for more.

Just in case you, or anyone else is interested- Last year it was cheaper to fly into Cincy and take a rental car to Lexington (I stayed in Cincy, just drove down for the contest) than it was flying into Lexington. I'll do whatever is cheaper this year. If anyone wants to chip on a hotel room/rental car feel free to contact me.

We got months to plan this out... maybe just "I" lol if no one else is interested. But if you wanna go but you're not sure, you got plenty of time to figure it out. Lata y'all
-Pete

[pmayjr]

Never ever ever?
Hmm... Do you drive? If you drive I'd be willing to pool in on a hotel room?

[BellamyRd.]

flyin is not my thing...never has been, never will be...will pay double to drive and close my eyes over the big hills :eek:


driving through IL there are no hills, trust me, I've done it many times
driving top to bottom takes forever, do it once and you'll want to
leap on a plane going home~severe boredom trumps all phobias

[pmayjr]

Bellamy... that's also true for Western MN, both the Dakotas, Kansas, etc etc etc hehe. Going to school in South Dakota for 2 years... I can claim I've seen Siberia lol.

[pmayjr]

I'll keep the offer out there If you wanna go in on a hotel room, but I might be stayin in Cincy... I won't know for at least another month or so.

[BellamyRd.]

I've always thought that a great slogan for Hoosier Park would be, "Hoosier Buddy? Hoosier Park!"

"hooiser daddy" is what the tvg people say
skippy was tellinmg me Anderson, IN and Hoosier was the pits
I'll take his word for it
the other one I've visited~has potential, IN Downs

[pmayjr]

Hoosier is a lil off the beaten path... it's like 30 miles northeast of Indianapolis. Indianapolis doesn't do much for me... But the track itself was nice. I mean the inside of it was. I don't even think the facility is 10 years old, so it hasn't acquired an indoor tackiness to it yet lol. The contest they run there over July 4th weekend (or I guess the first weekend in July) is nice! Almost as good as Keeneland's hehe. I definately recommend this contest.

As I said before... it's all about what you're into. I prefer to bet on **** claimers and bad allowance horses. It's just what I'm good at. If betting Belmont and So-cal is your thing, I can see how you don't like betting Hoosier. It's all into what you like.

[BellamyRd.]

Hoosier is a lil off the beaten path... it's like 30 miles northeast of Indianapolis. Indianapolis doesn't do much for me... But the track itself was nice. I mean the inside of it was. I don't even think the facility is 10 years old, so it hasn't acquired an indoor tackiness to it yet lol. The contest they run there over July 4th weekend (or I guess the first weekend in July) is nice! Almost as good as Keeneland's hehe. I definately recommend this contest.

As I said before... it's all about what you're into. I prefer to bet on **** claimers and bad allowance horses. It's just what I'm good at. If betting Belmont and So-cal is your thing, I can see how you don't like betting Hoosier. It's all into what you like.


What is the entry fee? I've been wanting to have a showdown with Mr. Immett in Sin City, NV. For those who don't know Mr. I is the "Chris Moneymaker" of handicapping contests. I live about as close to Keeneland as Cincinnatians, so if you need a place, you're welcome to stay here, as long as you return the favor when I need to hit the Mall of America...either way holler at me when you get to KY!

[pmayjr]

Bellamy,
Thanks for the offer. Usually the entry fee to these contests is $100. I think for both the Keeneland and Hoosier contetsts, they're $100. You're mking mythical wagers, so the $100 goes straight to the prize pool. With my travelling expenses tacked on, I try to keep the trips around $400, but that's what I love doing, so it doesn't bother me much.

The only time any contest gets much more expensive than $100 is if it's a big-time contest for the high-rollers, or if the wagers you are using aren't mythical. My home track, Canterbury, in suburban Minneapolis, makes you use real money in a lot of their contests. So it's will be entry fee+bankroll to get in.

But yeah... I love the $$$, I love the competition involved with these, but more than anything else- I'm tryin to qualify for the big DRF contest in Vegas in January for the big big $$$. The Horse Player World Series (also held in Vegas) would be a nice thing to qualify for too. I've been agonizingly close to qualifying, but haven't quite made it. But these contests also fit my betting style. I love betting longshots, so I'm a boom or bust player. I'm either gonna win the thing or finish last lol.

hit me up at pmayjr@yahoo.com if you're ever coming through. Otherwise I'll hit you up in early December when it becomes Keeneland contest time. Lata
-Pete

[skippy3481]

Come on man hoosier park sucks. Besides being a a basic ghetto, the class of people there on a typical night is absolutely horrific. You got a good view of it because they cleaned it up for the contest and it was a big day. Indiana downs is 3 times nicer and there is never anyone there. That being said, both tracks play really really wierd depending on the weather so if you don't follow them really closely, you are in for a rough night. Indiana downs is def the place to bet horses in indy. There is an OTB that is actually in downtown but it reeks of smoke and you get a great deal of bums. I think there are 3 or 4 other OTbs in the state, but i can't vouch for those as I haven't been.

[pmayjr]

Skippy,
Interesting insight. Yeah maybe they did just clean it up when I was there, but the place is farly new, so they had me fooled. Beyond doing the contest there, I don't forsee myself being in Indianapolis for anything else. Either way, it looks a lot better than tacky ****in Turfway. That place is a dump (but it doesn't mean I don't like betting it lol).

I think you're right about the unpredicitability of the races there. They offer good-sized, and usually wide-open on paper races. But I never seem to do well betting the place. Indiana Downs on the other hand... I've hit soem monsters there, both T-Bred and Quarter Horse races.

[BellamyRd.]

they do hold some qualifying contests, where you are can actually compete online, there are only a few throughout the year...I'll try to find the website

[skippy3481]

Indiana downs usually has very dumb money in its pools. Very few serious handicapppers follow it, so if you can find an angle or a barn that is hot, you can make a great deal of money. Hoosier downs is semi-new and the building outside is beautiful. I guess my problems come with the people in it. They have zero security to keep the idiots out. Next time your in Indy give indiana downs a shot. Or let me know me know i we can grab dinner and hit the track. It really is beautiful inside.

[pmayjr]

Thanks for the offer Skippy. The first weekend in July I might have to take you up on it hehe. Bellamy, I'm only interested in their July DRF qualifyer.

[todko]

I played Keeneland in July, I think the fee was $150. Seems if I remember correctly if you paid in advance they let you in at $135.

It's a tough contest. At the last one they had players from 22 different states and several foreign nations. A lot of the better contest players play it routinely. The facility is great, it's well organized, and the food is good.

The following day TP has their contest. Played it last year and it was a little rough. They used punch cards and a whiteboard to track results -- didn't use the tote system like Keeneland and Churchill does. TP says they are keeping the fee the same as last year ($100). They drew about 300 players last year. Combo of mandatory and optionals.

Beulah Park in Columbus looks like a good shot. $150 entry fee. Expect 250 players. Giving away 6 spots. It's Beulah's first contest. 15 races. 7 mandatory Beulah races and 8 optionals.

[pmayjr]

Awesome info Todko. The Keeneland contest you're talking about is the one they do at the end of July right? I was thinking about doin that one, but $$$ was a little tight so I passed.

The one they do the first weekend in December is top notch. It was very tough last year. I was a neck away from a top-10 finish (I had a longshot in one of the final contest-eligable races that finished 2nd by a neck)... but the very first contest-eligable race that day, R1 at Calder, a big longshot won the race. Longshots were hittin all day and people in that contest were nailin 'em.

I remember in Keeneland's December contest last year, that they announced that there were spots available for the Turfway contest the next day. My question about Turfway's contest- do they assign the races you bet on, or do they let you choose the ones you bet on like they do at Keeneland?

As for the tote-board sytem to see who's the leader, Canterbury does that too. But the difference is, that Canterbury gives you a wagering card and you put $$$ into the card. And it keeps the results for you. It's not that paper-punch thing you were talkin about.

[todko]

Awesome info Todko. The Keeneland contest you're talking about is the one they do at the end of July right? I was thinking about doin that one, but $$$ was a little tight so I passed.

The one they do the first weekend in December is top notch. It was very tough last year. I was a neck away from a top-10 finish (I had a longshot in one of the final contest-eligable races that finished 2nd by a neck)... but the very first contest-eligable race that day, R1 at Calder, a big longshot won the race. Longshots were hittin all day and people in that contest were nailin 'em.

I remember in Keeneland's December contest last year, that they announced that there were spots available for the Turfway contest the next day. My question about Turfway's contest- do they assign the races you bet on, or do they let you choose the ones you bet on like they do at Keeneland?

As for the tote-board sytem to see who's the leader, Canterbury does that too. But the difference is, that Canterbury gives you a wagering card and you put $$$ into the card. And it keeps the results for you. It's not that paper-punch thing you were talkin about.


Keeneland in July had a mix of mandatory races and optional races. Turfway does the same thing. If I remember, last year at Turfway they had 6 mandatory races from the Turfway card and 6 optionals that you could choose from the cards at Calder, Fairgrounds (at that time playing at Louisiana Downs), Aqueduct, and the remainder of the Turfway card.

A lot of players who fly in for the Keeneland contest sign-up for Turfway also as it's only about 80 miles from Keeneland. I only play one or the other, usually Turfway. To handicap two contests on a weekend is a lot of work. Last year, my friend flew in from Vancouver and cashed in both of the contests.

Turfway is committed to improving their contest. Last year they used paper cards with a player number on it. The contest clerks used a paper punch and manually entered the player number and selection into the tote system. Keeneland now uses the hard plastic card and clerk just swipes it (Churchill does it the same way).

I live about 45 minutes north of Turfway (on the Ohio side). Things are improving there -- the polytrack is much better this year with the latest big revisions.

I see you're in Minnesota. I was born in Duluth. Never have been to Canterbury. Some day.

[pmayjr]

Todko,
I actually flew into Cincy from Minneapolis for last year's contest. Last year I was ignorant to the fact that Turfway was having their contest the next day until I got to Keeneland and they announced it there. But I had to be back to work on Sunday anyways, so I wouldn't of been able to make it (my work schedule at my job back then was Sun-Thur).

Believe it or not, it was actually cheaper to fly into Cincy, and rent a car, than it was to fly into Lexington. So I did that last year. Cincy seems to be a lil more happenin than Lex, so I'll prolly intentionally do it that way if the price is right. 2 years ago I flew into Lexington, and took a cab. But I liked having the rental car so I'll do that again this time. Last year, right before I left for the airport to go home, I stopped by Turfway to check it out... It's clean enough... but very tacky. But I love betting the place.

This year I will try to do both contests. A lot of people I know will 'cap their races the night before. But that's never been my style. I'm always one who waits 'til about 5-10 minutes before post time, before I'll even start looking at a race. So that's a style that works for doing both contests. For this same reason is why you'll probably never see me post in the "selections" part of this website. I never know until I get to the track who I'm betting on (except for the Derby and B.C. Day).

Reason why? Conditions change, and more importantly, odds change. Also, in wide-open races (the good ones for contests), there's a lot of indecision between who I wanna commit my bet to. With only a little bit of time 'til post it forces me to make up my mind. Sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse. There are times where I'm deciding between 2 horses, and the one I don't choose goes on to crush the field lol. And I'm kickin myself for lookin hard at him, but not taking him ( I think we've all been there though lol). But it's a strategy that has worked a lot for me as well.

How long did you live in Duluth? What made you move to Ohio? Canterburry is a lot different place now that it was when it was "the downs" back in the 80s and early 90s. It re-opened in '95 and has a card club on the bottom level now that is extremely popular with that Poker Craze that's goin on these days. The place is nice and clean (not Keeneland nice, but it's a lot better than Turfyway lol), and it's well-run.

[todko]

pmayjr,

Didn't live long in Duluth. Born there, then shipped to Alaska. Father was in the Air Force. After he retired, we moved here to Ohio so he could work for the US government at Wright-Patterson AFB. Mom's born in Duluth and we have a lot of family in the Twin Cities area.

It is a way off, but let me know if you're coming into town for the contests at KEE and TP. TP is looking better know and they have actually invested a little money in the place with the poly and new paddock.

The revised (again) poly is much better with less kickback and running times closer to dirt. The first poly was a disaster as far as kickback goes.

[pmayjr]

I finally got the entry form in the mail last week. I'll make my travel arrangements this coming week. I should be flying into Cincy and driving down to Lexington from there. Anyone else considering going now that a few months have passed?