luka$$ fading

[disappearingdan_akaplaya]

normally i dont wish bad fortune on people but when it comes to d wayne i wont cry when it comes his way. in a horrible slump at both churchill and arlington and the last few years he hasnt come any near producing hall of fame numbers. hes getting clients on past reputation and success but i suspect it wont last too much longer for this self centered, limelight craving, run em into the ground AHOLE. its way past his time but hes too blind and his ego is too huge to realize that

[irishtrekker]

Agreed, playa. I've disliked the guy since I was about 12, when he made his first impression on me by having a few horses break down that year...sorry to say it, but I'm glad he's on his way out - I know he's good and wins races and yadda yadda, but, to me, how he wins negates the number of times he wins.

[disappearingdan_akaplaya]

some of his moves in his recent years have been beyond mind boggling. a couple locally here in chicago were having ct lang ride all of his stock LMFAO who didnt ride a winner the entire meet that year outta like 50 something tries, another was sending out a half a million dollar purchase in for a 50k mcl tag first out

[Scav]

I will tell you how I ABSOLUTELY LOVE how all his horses take action at Arlington...I have tossed every single one...Has he even hit the board yet here?

[seconditis]

This guys has been terrible for the sport for years. The only reason he ever did anything is because he tricked every owner out there into thinking he was the greatest. They would go and buy any horse that he wanted for him. If the horse wasn't looking like a stakes winner right out of the gate, he ignored them. If a horse was good enough for stakes company, he'd run them into ground until they broke down. What did he care, he had more horse waiting in the wings.

He had Charismatic running in a Maiden claimer, because he had already given up on him. His assistants had to convince him to keep the horse. I obvioulsy don't need to mention how many great horses he has killed.

I don't feel on drop of sympathy for this guy. CARMA IS A BITCH!!!!!!!!!

[Pointg5]

He's having an awful Churchill meet, but you guys must have short memories, last time I checked, he won a Breeders Cup race last year...

[Scav]

What horse has come out of that race? I am just thinking off the top of my head, but not many have come out of it....I agree with you though but that race was kinda weak...

For the record I could be completely wrong about this, I am at work and I can't look it up right now, but I don't think much came out of it

[oracle80]

yeah hes in 70's, and hes only trained 27 champions and a ziilion tri corwon races and breeders cup champs. What a clown huh.
Playa you are absolutely brain dead when you bash this guy. You may worship jocks like Antley, but Lukas' commenst were taken completely out of context about him. They got a hold of the whole interview and the guy left out the parts about Luaks praising him as well. Whatever, the guy reinvented training as we know it, shipping to all spots, etc.
Henning, Bradshaw, Barnett, Maker, McLaughlin, Stewart, and Pletcher all went to D Wayne U. Obviously the guy isnt only a trainer but a teacher as well. His lasting impression on this game and in the record books will forever be felt and his legacy will live on through Pletcher and others. The last 12 years have been real hard on the guy. His son was his best friend as well, and had that accident not occurred, his son would be where Todd is. Jeff was one of the best young horsemen who ever graced this earth. Lukas has lived the last 12 years watching this once brilliant guy, his son, go through hell in a reduced state. Hes lost his family, everything, and every day D Wayne must rise and think what if???? Tabsco cat hadnt got loose. AT this stage in his 70's D Wayne would re retired, with jeff running the show while he was an agent. For whatever sins D Wayne committed, hes paid the price, and then some. But I guess because some jock(whose work ethic and private life he questioned, who later DIED OVER DRUGS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) was spoken about by him, he should be hated instead of revered as what he is, a brilliant trainer who holds the records. 27 champions, good luck seeing that in our lifetime!!!!

[disappearingdan_akaplaya]

im well aware of his past and his accomplishments but brilliant he is no longer and thats pretty evident. how much money has he flushed away for his owners down the toilet the last 5 years? its not exactly what he said but the timing of it about antley more than anything disgusts me, his personal agenda clearly was laid out then. tell me just what purpose did it serve running TCAS in the derby or his stablemate in the belmont that year, god forbid if d wayne is outta the spotlight for 5 seconds, to him being in the spotlight is more than worth running 1 into the ground

[alysheba4]

yeah, i had kind of forgot about jeff........ that situation is a tough as it gets.
oracle, can he function on his own???

[oracle80]

yeah, i had kind of forgot about jeff........ that situation is a tough as it gets.
oracle, can he function on his own???
I don't know Mr Lukas well, only enough to say hello to. When i was younger I botherd Jeff with questions up here at saratoga and he always answered them. This was a brilliant handsome guy with work ethic of his dad.
I always ask him about Jeff when I see him, which isnt often. His horse was in teh next stall to WOnder lady in the Oaks and i asked about Jeff. He said hes frustarted and its hard. In other words hes just smart enough to know how smart he was and what kind of life he had. he cant train or function well enough to work. Anyone who ever knew the guy will tear up when they hear that. No matter how bad any of you think you ever have it, you oughta think about Jeff and consider yourselves lucky.

[Danzig]

no one stays on top forever, no athlete, no trainer, no jock, no horse. everyone knows that. why lukas gets singled out is beyond me--altho there is a share of baffert bashers around as well.
lukas hit it big, and stayed big for a while. maybe that has something to do with it. his success speaks for itself. his legacy lives on in the trainers he taught, including pletcher. to dig at a man who is past his prime is ridiculous. it happens to ALL of us, only not all of us have to slide downhill in the public eye.
as for a half million dollar purchase running in a claimer, lots of high price horses do squat. ap indy is an incredible rarity, having earned more in purse money than they spent on him. do you know how seldom that happens?

lukas is arguably one of the BEST trainers of all time. tc wins, eclipses, bc wins. everyone would like to do half as well, that would be quite an accomplishment.

as for antley, he was a POS. timing, shmiming. he ditched an expectant wife, he sure as hell didn't care about timing!! chose drugs over his own soon to be born child. no tears lost for that guy.

[oracle80]

no one stays on top forever, no athlete, no trainer, no jock, no horse. everyone knows that. why lukas gets singled out is beyond me--altho there is a share of baffert bashers around as well.
lukas hit it big, and stayed big for a while. maybe that has something to do with it. his success speaks for itself. his legacy lives on in the trainers he taught, including pletcher. to dig at a man who is past his prime is ridiculous. it happens to ALL of us, only not all of us have to slide downhill in the public eye.
as for a half million dollar purchase running in a claimer, lots of high price horses do squat. ap indy is an incredible rarity, having earned more in purse money than they spent on him. do you know how seldom that happens?

lukas is arguably one of the BEST trainers of all time. tc wins, eclipses, bc wins. everyone would like to do half as well, that would be quite an accomplishment.

as for antley, he was a POS. timing, shmiming. he ditched an expectant wife, he sure as hell didn't care about timing!! chose drugs over his own soon to be born child. no tears lost for that guy.


Zieg,
these are the same kinda guys who would say Jordan sucks if he laced em up and played an NBA game. I know thats a physical game and training is mostly mental. But his legendary hours and traveling are hard for a guy his age to keep up. Hes in the twilight, no doubt. But the bashing of a legend is hard for me to take. 27 champions!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Danzig]

it's odd, i was never a lukas fan...yet the last couple years i've been forced to defend the guy--as if his accomplishments require defending.

[oracle80]

Me too Zieg. I just think the guy who has such high moral ground abot selling info should take a look in the mirror when he writes things like not being upset when bad fortune comes his way. Incredible, do you really think that D wayne considers this bad fortune compared to what happened to Jeff? I'm pretty sure going cold at Arlington and CD really aren't up there in his list of things that have occurred in his life that he considers bad fortune.

[Downthestretch55]

no one stays on top forever, no athlete, no trainer, no jock, no horse. everyone knows that. why lukas gets singled out is beyond me--altho there is a share of baffert bashers around as well.
lukas hit it big, and stayed big for a while. maybe that has something to do with it. his success speaks for itself. his legacy lives on in the trainers he taught, including pletcher. to dig at a man who is past his prime is ridiculous. it happens to ALL of us, only not all of us have to slide downhill in the public eye.
as for a half million dollar purchase running in a claimer, lots of high price horses do squat. ap indy is an incredible rarity, having earned more in purse money than they spent on him. do you know how seldom that happens?

lukas is arguably one of the BEST trainers of all time. tc wins, eclipses, bc wins. everyone would like to do half as well, that would be quite an accomplishment.

as for antley, he was a POS. timing, shmiming. he ditched an expectant wife, he sure as hell didn't care about timing!! chose drugs over his own soon to be born child. no tears lost for that guy.
So well said!
I have nothing against him other than imho, he wasted some pretty good horses.
I only passed him once, at Belmont, when he was leading back his horse (had just won the 7th) on the walking path when Jim J was leading Thomas John over for the Belmont Stakes...the one where Real Quiet got moved too early by Kent D and Victory Gallop got the head bob.
His barn #3 is well decorated with his accomplishments. And he has certainly educated many.
Two of my favorite "old timers" though are GREAT horse men...H Allen J, and Shug.

DTS

[oracle80]

Absolutely agree with Oracle on this one that Lukas re-defined the horse industry with shipping and getting clients to pay top dollar for horses. Do you think a intelligent man like Eugene Klein would be dooped into buying millions worth of horses to train if D Wayne wasn't good at what he did. Yes Lukas is engaging and personable, but his work ethic and commitment to excellence was beyond reproach. That is what every horsemen that has worked for him has taken with them and they are all better for it. I must say I too have met Lukas firsthand when he spoke at Canterrbury Park and I approached the man to congratulate him on training the future Breeders Cup Sprint horse ( he laughed and said who that might be and of course being arrogant and cocky that I am said the Indiana Derby winner- Orientate.) This man broke down in the interview describing the accident with Tabasco Cat and his son jeff, he shed tears openly and honestly for all to see- so if he doesn't have a heart then i guess i don't have one either.

yeah but he talked badly about a ride a jockey who died from drugs (before he did), gave, so he doesnt have a heart. lol

[Danzig]

So well said!
I have nothing against him other than imho, he wasted some pretty good horses.
I only passed him once, at Belmont, when he was leading back his horse (had just won the 7th) on the walking path when Jim J was leading Thomas John over for the Belmont Stakes...the one where Real Quiet got moved too early by Kent D and Victory Gallop got the head bob.
His barn #3 is well decorated with his accomplishments. And he has certainly educated many.
Two of my favorite "old timers" though are GREAT horse men...H Allen J, and Shug.

DTS

every trainer has lost horses in their career. only some get roasted over a slow fire when it happens to them. just imagine if dwl was the trainer of horatio nelson, rather than obrien!! but if everyone would just think, rather than post off the handle...put yourself in their shoes. who here wishes they were matz after the derby, but wouldn't trade spots with him at pimlico? all trainers go thru this...only lukas is scrutinized so unendingly.
it seems some trainers are chosen to be hated, while others get a pass even tho they lose a horse, or are arrogant (ahem, frankel...).
lukas was always his own man, and did a lot his own way, and kind of stepped on some toes on his way up, because he was different. as they say, better dead than different. but the thing is, his methods worked. obviously. yet the poison remains. i remember when landaluce took ill and died, he was crucified by so many....yet no one who pointed fingers at him, claiming he killed her, want to know that he was in her stall, her head in his lap, crying when she died. nope, that doesn't quite fit for some.

[Danzig]

and dts, i also like shug. had he never done anything other than trained personal ensign, that would still have been enough!

[Crown@club]

Everybody runs there course. Heck they they wanted Paterno out of Penn State for a few years recently. What happened? He had a great season. Where was the talk from before. It happens every year with everyone.

Can we get rid of this thread? Let me re-state this. This thread actually has some good comments.

But can we get the Title change.

At least change it to Lukas Fading! This board shouldn't allow such titles.

[Downthestretch55]

and dts, i also like shug. had he never done anything other than trained personal ensign, that would still have been enough!
Totally agree.
One of his (Phipps) was a beauty named Storm Flag Flying.
Gosh, I loved her.
DTS

[Danzig]

i always cheer for phipps horses, black silks, cherry red cap. also any in the yellow of claiborne farm.

storm flag flying was a beauty on the track, very tenacious. hopefully she'll pass on those outstanding genes she inherited from her dam and grand-dam.
SFF's win in the bc filly race was incredible. not something you get to see and enjoy every day.

[LARHAGE]

it's odd, i was never a lukas fan...yet the last couple years i've been forced to defend the guy--as if his accomplishments require defending.

I used to work at a big tack store pretty close to Santa Anita, Lukas, Baffert, VanBerg and others would frequent the shop. Lukas had placed an order for a custom bit and came in person one day to pick it up. I brought it out and he could tell I was trying to figure the bit out, he smiled and explained what the bit was for and how it worked, he was always like that, very gracious and willing to go the extra mile. I always looked forward to him coming in and would chat about his horses, he is a very classy, charismatic individual. I also have nothing but fond memories of Baffert, VanBerg and Frankel, Baffert would always give us pictures of the horses, Silver Charm, Real Quiet etc.. They are just people like us , with the same feelings and emotions.

[seconditis]

I never all of the accomplishments Lukas has. However, I do have a problem with all of the horse he ran into the ground over his career. He is great with 2 and 3 year olds, but I think we can all agree his older horse training pales in comparison. My theory for this goes back to how hard he runs his youngest horses into the ground. He also had every great horse he set his eyes bought and put into his barn for him.
It is possible to look at his career and show respect for all his accomplishments and yet at the same time hate the way he treated many horses. Of course maybe some of this has to do with his owners. If they want to see their horses great at 2 and 3 and don't care about their health or their careers past the age of 3 then Lukas had no choice.

[Togacapper]

Just thought I would throw this in. Been reading this thread. I thought the job he did with Spain was incredible. Just my opinion.

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

This is my opinion. I have worked with horses all of my life, and those of you who have not worked with them don't understand how incredibly hard it is to do what trainers like Todd Pletcher, Bob Baffert, Bobby Frankel, Nick Zito, Steve Asmussen, and D. Wayne Luckas (just to name a few) have done. To train that many champions is incredible, and I am not so quick to judge trainers or jockeys anymore because I know first-hand what can go wrong with a horse. Horses are such fragile creatures, and what is worse is they can't tell you when something may be hurting them a little bit. For example, in reality (and don't attack me for this), Barbaro COULD HAVE HAD some sort of an injury before they ever put him in the starting gate that went undetected because some injuries are so hard to find. It is a gamble, and EVERYONE involved with horses usually makes a few huge mistakes in their career just because this is a sport where it is so easy to make mistakes, and it is a sport in which anything can go wrong. Unfortunately, some of those mistakes turn into fatalities or retirements. That is the sport of horse racing...the sport of kings. It is not for the faint-hearted. As for D. Wayne Lukas, he may have over-stepped his boundaries more than normal in the past few years. I must admit that the stunt he pulled with Going Wild last year infuriated me to no end. D. Wayne Luckas may be in a slump, and he may have made some bad desicions in the past few years, but EVERY trainer will go through this sometime in their career. In fact, who am I to judge someone who has given so much to the sport, and who has produced champion after champion after champion? One thing is for sure, I will never forget that terrific run for the Triple Crown that he gave us with Charismatic back in 1999.

[seconditis]

I respect you and anyone that has ever worked with horses. I would never try to say I knew 1% of what people who have worked with them know. However, with D.Wayne, I have to stick to my guns. He's had about 10 times more horses break down than any trainer I have ever seen and don't tell me it is because of the volume of horses he ran. Asmussen, Pletcher and others have just as many horses and 1/10th of the amount of horses breaking down as D.Wayne has over the years. Also, the other great trainers that have been mentioned all have great records with older and younger horses. D.Wayne's horses and stats fall apart once he burns the horses up at 2 and 3. Yes, he's had many champions, but bought every horse at every sale that looked like they might have an ounce of talent. How about some of the little trainers out there that never have any talent in their barns that still manage to produce a champion. These are the guys who should be talked about. Also, look at all the great trainers that came out of D.Wayne's stable. I know this is a plus for Lukas as a teacher, but also a minus as to did all the work making some of those past champions.

Also as to Charismatic, remember again, Lukas had him in Maiden Claimer. He had given up on the horse before he ran. How many other great horses might have Lukas have had in his barn if hadn't given up on them right away like he did time and time again?

[Scurlogue Champ]

When Asmussen and Pletcher hit 70 years old, maybe you can tally up all the breakdowns they have had and then make this statement.

Unless you have numbers to prove it, this statement isn't necessarily true.

Do you know how many horses Asmussen has had break down? Pletcher?

What about all the 2 year olds that snapped a leg before they ever race?

1/10th of D. Wayne's breakdowns?

"He's had about 10 times more horses break down than any trainer I have ever seen"

I feel like the above statement is an unqualified one.

[Dunbar]

Nice posts, oracle.

--Dunbar

[disappearingdan_akaplaya]

now you wanna come at me personally mike(oracle)? you really dont wanna go that route when it comes to "morals". i dont care whether luka$$ wins or loses a 100 races in row the guys still a pr ick at the end of the day. hmmmmmm nobody had no comment bout him being a self cenetered a$ shole and talking the owners into running TCAS in the derby.........gee i wonder why. you also mentioned jordan whos arguably the most successful and greatest athlete ever and played in the city i hailed from. i loved watchin the guy on the court as much as any1 but hes also a cheat off the court amongst other things. just because you got prior success and money doesnt make you a saint as a person.......lol were some of you part of the jury during the oj trial?


hey debbie you really think antley ditched his wife and his unborn? cmon, you get blinded that easily? chris was murdered and the guy you got the hots for gary stevens pretty much believes the same thing amongst other people. allen jerkins is still getting the job done, we had a trainer in a wheelchair saddle a horse in the derby this year and you people wanna use age as a excuse for his decline in his particular profession? of course d wayne dont care how good or bad he does, its not his millions getting flushed down the toilet.


luka$$' comments after "jockey" appeared on hbo just restated how much of a pri ck he is in saying he wouldnt feel sorry for shane sellers or any other jockey who drives 2 mercedes. well without those jocks d wayne dont feel sorry for he wins zero races and doesnt achieve the money and fame he did. you guys can talk 2 me till your blue in your collective faces about him, hes still a a$$hole

[Rupert Pupkin]

Hey guys, It's me richi42. I got tired of that name so I changed it.
Anyway, I totally agree with Playa. We have these debates about Lukas every few months. I know what he's accomplished but there are reasons for it. Last time we discussed this, Landson totally agreed with me that much of Lukas' success in the 1980s had to do with him being several years ahead of the other trainers in terms of pharmocolgy. He was practically the only guy that had all of his 2 year olds on steroids. His 2 year olds were as physically mature as 3 year olds. This gave Lukas a huge edge. His 3 year olds were bigger and stronger than everyone else's.
As I've stated before, nobody breaks down more horses percentage wise. Some of the biggest insurance companies will not insure his horses. What more do you need to know?

[Rupert Pupkin]

I don't know anyone in the business that thinks Lukas is a good trainer. Have any of you been to the track in the morning? Have you seen Lukas' horses train? His horses are so sore it is unbelievable. Everyone just shakes their heads every time they see another one of his horses hobble by.

[Rupert Pupkin]

I agree with a lot of what you are saying but not about Eugene Klein. If my memory is correct, Klein totally felt like Lukas duped him and Klein was considering suing Lukas before he died.
As I've said before, Lukas had a lot of good qualities. He was bright, a hard worker, extremely driven, very well organized, had great assistants, was a great salesman, was a great public relations guy, etc. I do think he was good at picking yearlings, but when you have the resources to buy the horses with the best pedigress and the best confirmation, it makes picking yearlings much easier.

[oracle80]

now you wanna come at me personally mike(oracle)? you really dont wanna go that route when it comes to "morals". i dont care whether luka$$ wins or loses a 100 races in row the guys still a pr ick at the end of the day. hmmmmmm nobody had no comment bout him being a self cenetered a$ shole and talking the owners into running TCAS in the derby.........gee i wonder why. you also mentioned jordan whos arguably the most successful and greatest athlete ever and played in the city i hailed from. i loved watchin the guy on the court as much as any1 but hes also a cheat off the court amongst other things. just because you got prior success and money doesnt make you a saint as a person.......lol were some of you part of the jury during the oj trial?


hey debbie you really think antley ditched his wife and his unborn? cmon, you get blinded that easily? chris was murdered and the guy you got the hots for gary stevens pretty much believes the same thing amongst other people. allen jerkins is still getting the job done, we had a trainer in a wheelchair saddle a horse in the derby this year and you people wanna use age as a excuse for his decline in his particular profession? of course d wayne dont care how good or bad he does, its not his millions getting flushed down the toilet

luka$$' comments after "jockey" appeared on hbo just restated how much of a pri ck he is in saying he wouldnt feel sorry for shane sellers or any other jockey who drives 2 mercedes. well without those jocks d wayne dont feel sorry for he wins zero races and doesnt achieve the money and fame he did. you guys can talk 2 me till your blue in your collective faces about him, hes still a a$$hole


I'm sorry but noone cares about junkies Playa, junkies are a dime a dozen and a waste of space on this earth.

[Crown@club]

.....And he rips into PVal all the time. Dare I say the H word?

[seconditis]

Monipenny, you do have some great points. I don't remember ever insulting Lukas's work ethic or committment. I have read the book on Charismatic and Lukas is quoted in there many times as saying how he missed the boat and screwed up with Charismatic. How he didn't think he was that good and had been concentrating on his other horses.
You wanted some facts on horses breaking down, well Richi just got done telling you some insurance companies won't even touch his horses. You think Pletcher and others have that problem? His also noted hsi 2 year olds were taking steroids. I'm sure that has nothing to do with all his breakdowns or the fact that he never had any talent training with older horses.
Listen, this guy has had many accomplishments, but blindly supporting him like you and others are doing is riduculous.

[seconditis]

Also, why has no Lukas supporter offered up a real reason that this guy has been terrible the past few years? Don't give me his sons injury. THis was very trajic, buy many great trainers and coaches have had bad things happen and their life and none of them have gone from a 30% winner to a 5% winner.
The way I see it there are a couple possible explanations. Lukas isn't getting near the quality of horses he used to. I don't think anyone would argue with this, but that really makes all of his accomplishments look like they only occurred because he had all the money for all the best horses. Or, he was ahead of the time on the pharmacy end of the sport and everyone caught up. If this is the case it makes all his accomplishments look like they were based on chemicals not his talent.
Don't tell me it's his age. If that was true, we would see a gradual downfall ove r the years not this. Plus many great trainers have continued to be great at his age.
SO why does he suddenly struggle so bad?

[disappearingdan_akaplaya]

Who the hell are you to call Lukas a assshole anyway. Are you some ethically bound prick yourself who thumps his chest because you choose to believe what the media writes. Have you ever heard the word inference? Do you know what the word implies? I look forward to your rebuttal on this one. Also now that you brought up O. J. which I think you did- does imply you think he is guilty. Well a jury of his peers sure as hell didn't so that must mean you personally know more then the police and countless other people to imply he was guilty; or was this just your opinion? I suppose too that Barry Bonds arguably the greatest baseball player to grace this planet is guilty- based on what, unfounded accusations and never once testing positive for steroids or illegal substances. I believe in this country YOU ARE INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY for the aforementioned people above. Know if you personally know Lukas and state he is a prick now that is your own opinion, but please use a original thought through that pea sized brain of yours and come up with strong facts when fightin with the big dogs.



who am i moni? who the hell are you? certainly one who is blind LOL! a big dog? nothing i claim to be but i am a racehorseowner and i also select horses to claim for other owners in my trainers barn, i do have some involvement in this industry. do i imply oj is guilty? guilty as sin. you had a racist cop, a prosecutor named marcia clark who was banging one of the other prosecutors during the trial instead of doing her job and a city that was afriad of another rodney king type riot, thats why oj wasnt convicted in the CRIMINAL trial! he was convicted rather quickly in the civil trial however. barry bonds the greatest baseball player ever? LMFAO you get more hilarious by the minute? hell dumba$$(since you like calling names) he ADMITTED to using the creme and claims he thought it was for"arthritis"........LOL damn your as gullible as barry foolishly expected the public to believe. the year he hooks up with the balco guy is the year he breaks the home run record..............again youre blind!


jeff you wanna call me a hyppocrite? well since you relike to call old posts of mine from the espn board the summer pval and julie were riding and competing against each on a daily basis ata extremely high level i was personally rooting for pval. i was rooting for the man to finally overcome all of his demons permanently. unfortunately that didnt happen and he pulled his MIA act and lied etc etc etc. hes been givin one too many chances, more than a "average" rider would. how many people would give a rats a$$ about pval if he couldnt ride, my guess is very few.


well with the idiocy of some1 i dont know and some who i considers friends attacking me i guess its about time for me to head out to arlington and spend some time with the horses in the barn(always makes me feel better whether its a good or bad day) and hopefully watch the barn win a race. enjoy the rest of your day people

[oracle80]

Look Playa sometimes I react and judge faster then my keys type. As far as being a horse owner and advising and purchasing horses for other people for the industry, I think that is great. The claiming game and the smaller fringe people are what keeps this game going. As you stated- you are a owner and I can appreciate and respect that immensely. I however I'm not a owner but dad is however. I could list the many horses he owns and runs just primarily at Del Mar but they are to many. I'll just say his first horse was Saratoga Gambler that Bill Spawr halved for 80 or 100 grand. Bill told my father that he had a plan for this horse and that he did. Saratoga Gambler won the Ancient Title which was a Grade II or Grade III at that time. I believe that early in racing southern cal had no designation of Grade I stakes for sprints- New York mostly carried that tradition- Carter, Tom Fool, etc. My point is that so cal was behind the curve with designating these races such as Triple Bend, Ancient Titlle and so on. These races now carry Grade I status because several horses have exited these races to go on to win the Breeders Cup Sprint. e.g. Craig Dollase gelding for Paul Reddam won the Sprint, Jennine Sahadi had two- One of Scuds favorite horses and sires win the Sprint at Woodbine and also the 7 year old gelding that won with the Nak up for her second consecutive Sprint winner. Playa look you obviously know your stuff as you advised that Fantastic New Way was privately purchased by Turf Express and that he would be having a big meet in chi town. He ran once over that yielding turf course this last month and Ariel Smith did not ask the horse because he didn't lift his feet that day. Well maybe he just loves Lone Star where he broke his maiden at 20-1. Probably because Turf Express promptly shipped this filly to Cody Autrey's barn at Lone Star then win easily this last weekend with Cliff Berry up at 4-1. I slammed that filly on the win end and had a 3 dollar that paid 241.50 for $1. Also had 20 dollar straight pik 3 singling filly with 1/5 next race and 6 horses in last. I got nailed by that piece of **** Seeking thr Gold 5 year old who won by a head over my other horse. That horse has costed me tons as he beat my ass opening day at Oaklawn for Tom durant and trained by Jack Burner. What a team Ronnie and Tom made killing everyone with those two year olds for years. Don't worry he has Oxbow farms now; formerly Prestonwood farms. That filly Ermine could really make some noise- only if she had won that Ky Oaks-DAM. Listen I made a mistake attacking you and my info is your info. I look forward to corresponding with ya via DT and email. MONNIPENNY OUT


Playa I am a friend but you have beating on Lukas for years and always bring back the Antley thing. YOU are just wrong, even Somer tried to explain it to you. The guy took hours of interview footage, and cut out 90% of it. He showed the disparaging remarks about Antley not bonding with the horse(perhaps you forgot that while riding Strike The gold for Zito he missed a workout one morning, bringing the same exact criticism from Zito). They didn't show the part of the interview where Lukas praised Antley for his fine rides and credited him with saving the horses life. The guy who made the interview admitted all of this, it was public.
Its tiring dude, if you wanna hate someone go for it, but noone cares about the Antley thing because the rest of us know that the interview that was SHOWN wasnt the full story, and thats not Waynes fault.\
I don't disagree with much you say, but on this one I always will disagree and speak out. Its not personal.

[Crown@club]

A good friend always help you out with your faults.

[Danzig]

now you wanna come at me personally mike(oracle)? you really dont wanna go that route when it comes to "morals". i dont care whether luka$$ wins or loses a 100 races in row the guys still a pr ick at the end of the day. hmmmmmm nobody had no comment bout him being a self cenetered a$ shole and talking the owners into running TCAS in the derby.........gee i wonder why. you also mentioned jordan whos arguably the most successful and greatest athlete ever and played in the city i hailed from. i loved watchin the guy on the court as much as any1 but hes also a cheat off the court amongst other things. just because you got prior success and money doesnt make you a saint as a person.......lol were some of you part of the jury during the oj trial?


hey debbie you really think antley ditched his wife and his unborn? cmon, you get blinded that easily? chris was murdered and the guy you got the hots for gary stevens pretty much believes the same thing amongst other people. allen jerkins is still getting the job done, we had a trainer in a wheelchair saddle a horse in the derby this year and you people wanna use age as a excuse for his decline in his particular profession? of course d wayne dont care how good or bad he does, its not his millions getting flushed down the toilet.


luka$$' comments after "jockey" appeared on hbo just restated how much of a pri ck he is in saying he wouldnt feel sorry for shane sellers or any other jockey who drives 2 mercedes. well without those jocks d wayne dont feel sorry for he wins zero races and doesnt achieve the money and fame he did. you guys can talk 2 me till your blue in your collective faces about him, hes still a a$$hole

lol, i mention a guy is good looking, and now i have the hots for him? and that means i think he's sherlock holmes or something? or that because he can ride a horse he knows more than the cops? nah, that guy said RHT was one of the best he ever rode. that's enough to tell me not to believe much of what he says.....
and yes, i do think CA ditched his family. he was an addict, and he wasn't strong enough to overcome it. do i think he intended to DIE? no. but his actions led to his demise, to his wife being a widow, and his child born already half an orphan. saving a horse no more makes antley a hero than running thousand yard seasons made oj a good person!
and i KNEW richi would show up in this thread.
funny, i was just reading in bloodhorse about the rampant steroid use by so many trainers.
as for hendricks..a lot of trainers get the good horse. that's luck. lukas had a ton of them, that's skill.

also, i must be an *******, i don't feel bad for drivers of two mercedes either.

[Pedigree Ann]

Whatever, the guy reinvented training as we know it, shipping to all spots, etc.
Henning, Bradshaw, Barnett, Maker, McLaughlin, Stewart, and Pletcher all went to D Wayne U.

I don't think it's a positive that he 'reinvented training'. Whittingham, Stephens, Luro, et. al. trained horses they knew and understood, not 'units' in one of several stables around the country. Lukas was best as a scout and a manager - pick out the athletes and smooze the owners, figure out the line-up. His assistants trained the horses.

[oracle80]

I don't think it's a positive that he 'reinvented training'. Whittingham, Stephens, Luro, et. al. trained horses they knew and understood, not 'units' in one of several stables around the country. Lukas was best as a scout and a manager - pick out the athletes and smooze the owners, figure out the line-up. His assistants trained the horses.
Funny, they must not feel that way. I know Pletcher and McLaughlin use a white bridle as a tribute to the old boss.

[Honu]

lol, i mention a guy is good looking, and now i have the hots for him? and that means i think he's sherlock holmes or something? or that because he can ride a horse he knows more than the cops? nah, that guy said RHT was one of the best he ever rode. that's enough to tell me not to believe much of what he says.....
and yes, i do think CA ditched his family. he was an addict, and he wasn't strong enough to overcome it. do i think he intended to DIE? no. but his actions led to his demise, to his wife being a widow, and his child born already half an orphan. saving a horse no more makes antley a hero than running thousand yard seasons made oj a good person!
and i KNEW richi would show up in this thread.
funny, i was just reading in bloodhorse about the rampant steroid use by so many trainers.
as for hendricks..a lot of trainers get the good horse. that's luck. lukas had a ton of them, that's skill.

also, i must be an *******, i don't feel bad for drivers of two mercedes either.


I live here in Cali and the whole C.A. thing is old, the whole time Chris was on T.V. being interviewed about him kicking his "demons" after he won the Derby was such crap its unreal . I was at a party that he was at about a week after he won the Preakness , the guy was so ripped when he walked in the door that he was there 5 mins and started a fight with Matt Garcia over some 17 yr. old girl that he thought was his "date".
That being said, I do believe Chris met with foul play regarding his death, there were just to many things that didnt make sense and not nearly enough investigating of the people that were on his property when he was found
dead.
As for Lukas , you can respect him for his ability to get one ready and ruin one quicker than anybody , nobody has ever done a finer job.

[oracle80]

I live here in Cali and the whole C.A. thing is old, the whole time Chris was on T.V. being interviewed about him kicking his "demons" after he won the Derby was such crap its unreal . I was at a party that he was at about a week after he won the Preakness , the guy was so ripped when he walked in the door that he was there 5 mins and started a fight with Matt Garcia over some 17 yr. old girl that he thought was his "date".
That being said, I do believe Chris met with foul play regarding his death, there were just to many things that didnt make sense and not nearly enough investigating of the people that were on his property when he was found
dead.
As for Lukas , you can respect him for his ability to get one ready and ruin one quicker than anybody , nobody has ever done a finer job.
Honu!!! great to see you here! Honu I wasnt defending Lukas' breaking down horses. BUt I was a littel sickened about the wishing bad luck part. Guy suffers every day over Jeff. That was what lit my fire. I'm not saying he is St. Wayne.

[Honu]

Honu!!! great to see you here! Honu I wasnt defending Lukas' breaking down horses. BUt I was a littel sickened about the wishing bad luck part. Guy suffers every day over Jeff. That was what lit my fire. I'm not saying he is St. Wayne.

Hey Oracle, I would never wish bad luck on anyone , well excpet for the jerks that broke into my car and stole my 2003 breeders cup jacket.
Wayne Lukas has accomplished alot of things that most likely wont be repeated in my lifetime......still doesnt mean I like the way he trains,thats just me.
To wish someone bad luck is inviting your own karma.

[oracle80]

Hey Oracle, I would never wish bad luck on anyone , well excpet for the jerks that broke into my car and stole my 2003 breeders cup jacket.
Wayne Lukas has accomplished alot of things that most likely wont be repeated in my lifetime......still doesnt mean I like the way he trains,thats just me.
To wish someone bad luck is inviting your own karma.


Honu,
When I was younger and stupid, I was stewing over someone and wishing them bad luck. My very wise mentor, a trainer, looked at me and said "Mike, you don't ever have to wish someone bad in life. If they are truly a bad guy they will dig their own hole, and the Lord will help them dig". I never forgot that, ever. And its a good lesson.

[seconditis]

"Mike, you don't ever have to wish someone bad in life. If they are truly a bad guy they will dig their own hole, and the Lord will help them dig"


Finally someone offers an explanation as to why Lukas has hit the SHI#$ER over the last few years.

[Scurlogue Champ]

Someone I know in the industry can't stand Lukas.

He told me a story about one of his friends and a fellow owner sending a horse to D. Wayne.

He asked they guy, "Why in the world would you send a horse to Lukas.?"

The guy said,

"Hey, say all you want about Lukas. But the simple fact is that with him training one you find out what you have really quick.

It doesn't seem like Lukas will string owners along and milk the day rates under the guise of "taking care of the horse." He will run the **** out of them, and if they can't cut it, it's time to get rid of them.

At least you know what kind of horse you have with this guy. If your horse sucks, you will know it soon enough."

I'm not sure if this is right or not, but just an alternative opinion.

[disappearingdan_akaplaya]

yeah jeff a good friend does point out a friends faults 2 him or her but i stated a opinion my own and personally i dont feel its off base like you and some others think. debbie lol i was teasin ya bout gary but after chris died he also felt his life was threatened and hired personal body guards. ive already stated my opinions and nobody wanted 2 reply to this 1 but the comments luka$$ made after jockey confirmed to me that he will never change from being a self centered a$ s hole, all he cares about is himself

[Crown@club]

Actually I like the little jabs. And I don't really care how you feel about Lukas. There's a certain trainer I can't stand, and I won't mention about him here. But as for referencing Lukas as Luka$$, this belongs back on the Espn Boards not here

[bogeydaman]

[QUOTE=seconditis]Asmussen, Pletcher and others have just as many horses and 1/10th of the amount of horses breaking down as D.Wayne has over the years.

I agree with the Lukas "doubters" on this thread. I would not however use Pletcher as the poster child. I am a So Fla. local who has been going to Gulfstream Park 10x per meet for the past 15 years. When he first "separated" from Lukas he had a "significant" number of horses break down his 1st couple years training at Gulfstream. I can honestly say that I have seen more TP horses break down live than any other trainer (including the 5K claiming garbage I get at Calder the rest of the year). That being said for the most recentl years, I would say his record has been pretty astounding (for not destroying horses that is). Maybe he has wisened over the years (and is taking strides to be more conservative with his stock than his prior boss).


I am a data guy and unfortunately don't have any data to back the TP historical statements above up. Take them as you will.