Strongest Classic Field Ever?

[randallscott35]

If you are Jay Privman. Back to sleep Jay.

http://www.drf.com/news/fly-down-morning-line-expected-breeders-cup-classic

[hockey2315]

Second strongest ever. . . behind last year's. Maybe the best. . . but only if you-know-who wins.

Privman is insufferable.

[randallscott35]

Second strongest ever. . . behind last year's. Maybe the best. . . but only if you-know-who wins.

Privman is insufferable.

He should honestly be fired for writing something that dumb. Where is NPR?

[Dahoss]

I don't agree with him at all, but he said "one of", not the strongest.

I normally enjoy Privman's work, but I think he's way off here.

[randallscott35]

I don't agree with him at all, but he said "one of", not the strongest.

I normally enjoy Privman's work, but I think he's way off here.

What's to enjoy? To even consider among the Top 10 fields is ludicrous.

[Dahoss]

What's to enjoy? To even consider among the Top 10 fields is ludicrous.

I mentioned twice I thought he was wrong.

But normally he's pretty good IMO and he never said it was the best, which is how you portrayed it.

[randallscott35]

I mentioned twice I thought he was wrong.

But normally he's pretty good IMO and he never said it was the best, which is how you portrayed it.

There is a ? after my title. People can read the article. I portrayed that writing what he wrote was idiotic which it was. :wf

[NTamm1215]

There is a ? after my title. People can read the article. I portrayed that writing what he wrote was idiotic which it was. :wf

It's the strongest BC Classic field
























since 2008.

[iamthelurker]

I can't think of too many years that WEREN'T stronger.

[eajinabi]

1998 was the strongest

[ateamstupid]

Zenyatta

[DaTruth]

It might be the greatest field ever to assemble in a starting gate, unless Quality Road is a late scratch again.

[RockHardTen1985]

It might be the greatest field ever to assemble in a starting gate, unless Quality Road is a late scratch again.

Its a really strong group. Not sure why everyone seems so down on it.

[RockHardTen1985]

Zenyatta

Champion, undefeated, 2 time BC winner.

[RolloTomasi]

Its a really strong group. Not sure why everyone seems so down on it.

Who in the field has been "really strong"?

[ateamstupid]

Champion, undefeated, 2 time BC winner.

Boring paper tiger who's only a 'champion' to morons. But you knew that already.

[Indian Charlie]

Champion, undefeated, 2 time BC winner.

Boring paper tiger who's only a 'champion' to morons. But you knew that already.

The thing is, I don't think he does know it. He's been a fan of the game for what, three years? Maybe five?

He probably does think she's a great champion, based off of his limited view of today's standards, which are low.

TFF though, he knows better and is just being his usual dick self.

[RockHardTen1985]

Who in the field has been "really strong"?

The big 4.

[RockHardTen1985]

The thing is, I don't think he does know it. He's been a fan of the game for what, three years? Maybe five?

He probably does think she's a great champion, based off of his limited view of today's standards, which are low.

TFF though, he knows better and is just being his usual dick self.

Not at all IC. I think Z is amazing. I think she has been great the past 3 years.

[RolloTomasi]

The big 4.

Quality Road is a cross between Lemon Drop Kid and Bertrando, meaning he's tailing off and can't get the distance.

Blame in a normal year would be under-the-radar very much like previous winners Wild Again, Skywalker, and Awesome Again. And yet he's one of the "big 4".

Lookin At Lucky is about as accomplished as Louis Quatorze or Birdstone were, neither of whom were heavily backed in their respective Classics.

Pepper's Pride was never considered for the BC Classic and almost certainly would have been a longshot if she had, not a major player.

[RockHardTen1985]

Quality Road is a cross between Lemon Drop Kid and Bertrando, meaning he's tailing off and can't get the distance.

Blame in a normal year would be under-the-radar very much like previous winners Wild Again, Skywalker, and Awesome Again. And yet he's one of the "big 4".

Lookin At Lucky is about as accomplished as Louis Quatorze or Birdstone were, neither of whom were heavily backed in their respective Classics.

Pepper's Pride was never considered for the BC Classic and almost certainly would have been a longshot if she had, not a major player.

QR--- Because you say so?

Blame--- Im against, but the Foster and Whitney winner is under the radar?

L@L--- Is about ready to explode, TRUST.

4th- I wont comment on this filth.

[ateamstupid]

4th- I wont comment on this filth.

http://www.asia.ru/images/target/photo/51646912/Steam_Iron.jpg
http://www.freewarestuff4all.com/LETTER%20E.jpg

[RolloTomasi]

QR--- Because you say so?

No, I was thinking of last year's Travers and Jockey Club Gold Cup; and comparing his races this summer with those from this winter and spring.

He'd need a Black Tie Affair-type setup to win I think. As it stands, a runner-up finish after getting rundown in the last 1/16th seems like his ceiling.

[chucklestheclown]

This is actually a nice line-up; but the Bears won Super Bowl XX 25 years ago and look where they (and the rest of the NFL) are now. (In other words, the BC has not been around that long so WTF cares?).

[Danzig]

it's a sad commentary of how things are with this sport if blame, qr, zenyatta and lookin at lucky are considered a strong group. they are the best this year, doesn't mean they are particularly good-especially when one considers past top horses coming into a bc. i like blame, but only because of who he's facing off against, not because i think he's at all comparable to past top horses.

[johnny pinwheel]

someone wrote it...it must be true.......give me a break its an "average" year.

[NoLuvForPletch]

Quality Road is a cross between Lemon Drop Kid and Bertrando, meaning he's tailing off and can't get the distance.

Blame in a normal year would be under-the-radar very much like previous winners Wild Again, Skywalker, and Awesome Again. And yet he's one of the "big 4".

Lookin At Lucky is about as accomplished as Louis Quatorze or Birdstone were, neither of whom were heavily backed in their respective Classics.

Pepper's Pride was never considered for the BC Classic and almost certainly would have been a longshot if she had, not a major player.

That is a pretty harsh condemnation of Looking At Lucky, don't you think? The only thing LQ and LAL have in common is that they both won the Preakness. LAL is a 5 time Grade 1 winner, who, like many others before him did not luck into winning the most over-hyped race in the game, The Kentucky Derby. What else has this horse done wrong?

[blackthroatedwind]

That is a pretty harsh condemnation of Looking At Lucky, don't you think? The only thing LQ and LAL have in common is that they both won the Preakness. LAL is a 5 time Grade 1 winner, who, like many others before him did not luck into winning the most over-hyped race in the game, The Kentucky Derby. What else has this horse done wrong?

On their best days, I honestly doubt Lookin at Lucky could come close to Louis Quatorze. I think you should take a good look at his pps. Louis ran some VERY big races, in some VERY big races, at a time when there were some VERY good horses racing.

[Sightseek]

Don't they say this every year?

Not even half as good as the last at Churchill.

[blackthroatedwind]

Don't they say this every year?

Not even half as good as the last at Churchill.

Bernardini and Invasor would drown this bunch. And Premium Tap would fill out the tri again.

[NTamm1215]

On their best days, I honestly doubt Lookin at Lucky could come close to Louis Quatorze. I think you should take a good look at his pps. Louis ran some VERY big races, in some VERY big races, at a time when there were some VERY good horses racing.

You mean he would have stacked up well against First Dude, Super Saver, Trappe Shot, and Thisskyhasnolimit?

[blackthroatedwind]

You mean he would have stacked up well against First Dude, Super Saver, Trappe Shot, and Thisskyhasnolimit?

It's scary to compare some of the 1996 3YOs to this bunch. Skip Away? Unbridled Song? Louis Quatorze? Will's Way?

[randallscott35]

On their best days, I honestly doubt Lookin at Lucky could come close to Louis Quatorze. I think you should take a good look at his pps. Louis ran some VERY big races, in some VERY big races, at a time when there were some VERY good horses racing.

You mean the Indiana Derby doesn't float your boat? Jeez.

[Travis Stone]

Unbridled's Song in full disclosure is one of my favorite horses evah... but with a different owner and better feet, I always wonder how far he could have gone. He turned for home in the Derby like the next best thing. Oh well.

[Smooth Operator]

Some of you guys better hope they get to the big mare in this one....................



20 for 20 … 3 Cups

On the brink of horse racing IMMORTALITY



By the way, pretty funny to see guys who wholeheartedly backed RA for HotY … when her biggest accomplishment was barely hanging on against the 6 for 24 Macho Again … now all of sudden talking about and dissing strength of competition.

In fact, it's downright HILARIOUS…

[randallscott35]

Unbridled's Song in full disclosure is one of my favorite horses evah... but with a different owner and better feet, I always wonder how far he could have gone. He turned for home in the Derby like the next best thing. Oh well.

He has done more to destroy the breed than any other horse in history. Like crossing a Ford Pinto with a Delorian.

[randallscott35]

Some of you guys better hope they get to the big mare in this one....................



20 for 20 … 3 Cups

On the brink of horse racing IMMORTALITY



By the way, pretty funny to see guys who wholeheartedly backed RA for HotY … when her biggest accomplishment was barely hanging on against the 6 for 24 Macho Again … now all of sudden talking about and dissing strength of competition.

In fact, it's downright HILARIOUS…

Now I need more TUMS.

[Port Conway Lane]

I don't feel it's the strongest field in the last 10 years but what I do see is that there are four horses who have never run a poor race in their careers.
Similar to 2007 when four horses were superior on paper to the remainder of the field and Awesome Gem clunked up in the picture. The difference that year was that three of the four big names were 3YOs.

As much as Zenyatta has been overhyped there is still a tendency to under appreciate not only her but all of the major players because they are in the here and now. Looking back in the past we have the benefit of assessing completed careers of horses who at the time of their appearance in major races didnt necessarily make the fields they were in strong, but subsequently went on to establish themselves.

Maybe it's me but I don't get the hyperbole or the criticism.

[slotdirt]

Where's Hovdey? I'm sure he can say something even dumber than this.

[randallscott35]

Where's Hovdey? I'm sure he can say something even dumber than this.

It's funny you say this. Originally when I was reading it I figured it was him, then I had to look back at the author...Of course Hovdey is busy taking pictures with Zenyatta in the winner's circle so...

[philcski]

That is a pretty harsh condemnation of Looking At Lucky, don't you think? The only thing LQ and LAL have in common is that they both won the Preakness. LAL is a 5 time Grade 1 winner, who, like many others before him did not luck into winning the most over-hyped race in the game, The Kentucky Derby. What else has this horse done wrong?

http://www1.drf.com/tc/preakness/2004/pps/louisquatorze.pdf

Louis Quartorze only won one G1 (the Preakness) and got beat a nose in the Classic, but would absolutely destroy Lookin at Lucky. Look at the horses he got beat by. Hennessy, Maria's Mon, Unbridled's Song, Editor's Note, Skip Away, Will's Way, Cigar, Alphabet Soup. Every one of those horses would be a heavy favorite in the Classic (except Hennessy, being a sprinter.) He would be 3/5 against this group- or less- on his own merit. And the scary thing is, it could be argued that was the 3rd best of the 3yo crops between 1995-1997.

http://www1.drf.com/tc/preakness/2010/pps/pp-lookin-at-lucky.pdf

To be clear, just because the current group isn't that good doesn't mean I'm not looking forward to it. It will be a great two days of racing at the best BC venue.

Bernardini and Invasor would drown this bunch. And Premium Tap would fill out the tri again.

Definitely.

[Indian Charlie]

And why we are at it would take the field in both Tiznow's wins as well

Why we are at it?

That's the oddest 'typo' I've ever seen.

[NoLuvForPletch]

On their best days, I honestly doubt Lookin at Lucky could come close to Louis Quatorze. I think you should take a good look at his pps. Louis ran some VERY big races, in some VERY big races, at a time when there were some VERY good horses racing.

While I can appreciate the 1996 3YO crop being tough, when did winning races stop counting? I liked Lookin at Lucky's Haskell a lot. His Preakness, while not as visually impressive as you might like, I thought it was impressive enough coming out of the beating he took in the Derby. I'll take my chances with him on November 6.

[RolloTomasi]

While I can appreciate the 1996 3YO crop being tough, when did winning races stop counting? I liked Lookin at Lucky's Haskell a lot. His Preakness, while not as visually impressive as you might like, I thought it was impressive enough coming out of the beating he took in the Derby. I'll take my chances with him on November 6.

The comparison was based on 3yo accomplishment (I know that wasn't clarified). Lookin At Lucky won the Preakness and Haskell, Louis Quatorze won the Preakness and Jim Dandy. No comment was really being made on their respective talents.

The point of my post, which was missed by RHT as well, was that this year's "big 4", in other years, would have all been mid-range contenders to say the least. Lookin At Lucky on paper was similar to Louis Quatorze, who went off at 18-1. What price will the former be?

Doesn't mean Lookin At Lucky can't win this year. Louis Quatorze almost did.

[blackthroatedwind]

I was comparing their respective talent.

Louis Quatorze was in a different zip code than Lookin at Lucky.

[Indian Charlie]

I was comparing their respective talent.

Louis Quatorze was in a different zip code than Lookin at Lucky.

Since I'm in a very nitpicky frame of mind today, I was wondering which zip codes those two horses would be from??

[RolloTomasi]

I was comparing their respective talent.

Louis Quatorze was in a different zip code than Lookin at Lucky.

I agree. I was really disappointed when he got injured at 4. He looked like he was going to be a monster off his first two starts that year.

The Skip Away-Formal Gold-Will's Way battles were epic enough. What kind of armageddon would have been unleashed if he was in there as well?

[Smooth Operator]

I agree. I was really disappointed when he got injured at 4. He looked like he was going to be a monster off his first two starts that year.

The Skip Away-Formal Gold-Will's Way battles were epic enough. What kind of armageddon would have been unleashed if he was in there as well?


Apparently not "epic enough" for those HotY voters…

[Indian Charlie]

Apparently not "epic enough" for those HotY voters…

Man, you are dumb.

[NTamm1215]

Apparently not "epic enough" for those HotY voters…

From the guy whose greatest horse evar is one loss away from ending a 19 of 20 career with 0 HOTY awards.

[RockHardTen1985]

From the guy whose greatest horse evar is one loss away from ending a 19 of 20 career with 0 HOTY awards.

I think she deserved at least 1.

[NoLuvForPletch]

I was comparing their respective talent.

Louis Quatorze was in a different zip code than Lookin at Lucky.

Dude, that's harsh.

[smuthg]

I think this year's field is better than the last two and better than the field that St. Liam beat in 2005. I don't think its anywhere close to 2006 or 2007...

[RockHardTen1985]

I think this year's field is better than the last two and better than the field that St. Liam beat in 2005. I don't think its anywhere close to 2006 or 2007...

100% better then the St Liam group. RHT did not get to run :(

[Antitrust32]

It's scary to compare some of the 1996 3YOs to this bunch. Skip Away? Unbridled Song? Louis Quatorze? Will's Way?

even Editor's Note and the filly My Flag would have been at the top of the 2010 crop.

& Honour and Glory

[Antitrust32]

Unbridled's Song in full disclosure is one of my favorite horses evah... but with a different owner and better feet, I always wonder how far he could have gone. He turned for home in the Derby like the next best thing. Oh well.

:tro::tro:

my #1 doubleplusgood favorite horsey of all time.

I still see Zito quotes recently saying he was as talented a horse that he's ever trained.

[philcski]

Since I'm in a very nitpicky frame of mind today, I was wondering which zip codes those two horses would be from??

40510!

[Indian Charlie]

40510!

He said different zip codes!

[Dahoss]

even Editor's Note and the filly My Flag would have been at the top of the 2010 crop.

& Honour and Glory

Honour and Glory was a hell of a horse. He would be a top sprinter/miler in any of the last 15-20 years IMO.

[blackthroatedwind]

Exactly. Formal Gold put up like mid 120 Beyers like three times during those battles also.

Louis Quartoze was typical late developing Zito horse think he would have been a monster at 4 also.

Louis Quatorze finished second to Maria's Mon in their respective 2YO debuts ( on or about July 4th ) and broke his maiden in his second start as a 2Y0. He followed this up with respectable performances against one of the best, if not the best, 2YO crops I have ever seen.

He was not a late developer. He was just flat out good.

[Revidere]

http://www1.drf.com/tc/preakness/2004/pps/louisquatorze.pdf

Look at the horses he got beat by. Hennessy, Maria's Mon, Unbridled's Song, Editor's Note, Skip Away, Will's Way, Cigar, Alphabet Soup. Every one of those horses would be a heavy favorite in the Classic (except Hennessy, being a sprinter.) He would be 3/5 against this group- or less- on his own merit.

Really?

Really?

[philcski]

He said different zip codes!

LOL...

both were conceived at the same location! (Lane's End)


Really?

Really?

Yes... really.

[RolloTomasi]

Apparently not "epic enough" for those HotY voters…

Add in Gentlemen to that '97 handicap division and you have a tough call to make. Each of those mentioned put up multiple monster races. Shockingly, they all ran against each other, too. Imagine that.

Voters took the easy way out, especially since all but Skip Away fell by the wayside prior to the BC.

[randallscott35]

This is really getting scary. Now Joe Drape saying last years one of strongest ever.

A joke

http://therail.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/10/26/the-rail-returns-for-the-breeders-cup/

The first comment sounds like one of our own.

[robfla]

The first comment sounds like one of our own.

I think Joe has lost his mind:

Let me get a couple of things off my chest. Whether she wins or loses the Breeders’ Cup Classic on Nov. 6, Zenyatta is the Horse of the Year. End of story. She should have won that honor last year. Zenyatta beat one of the greatest fields — all boys — ever assembled last year in the Classic.

[johnny pinwheel]

Don't they say this every year?

Not even half as good as the last at Churchill.

of course they do! but somehow it comes as a surprise to some of these people. its called the MEDIA and if you believe more than half of it...you will never,never win in this game. just like trainers and owners say they have the HOY, THIS TIME EVERY YEAR......one guy says it ...they want to punch him in the face. happens every year...oh, but the nerve of that SOB.....lol..lol." i lost every race i bet on the BC but i won that crappy argument on derby trail forum...i'm good"...lol...lol. you just can't buy entertainment like this....lol. this is the best group ever assembled for the BC classic...there i wrote it too. must be true or worth crying about....lol

[slotdirt]

Oh lord. Sofa King We Todd Did.

Thanks Joe,

You hit the nail on the head perfectly. Zenyatta will crush this field. Dare I say she will break Secretariat's track record. What a way to go out!
Your're right about last year's Classic. Horses that she beat have alreay won 9 Grade 1 races since then and placed in 7 others. That is, the horses that lost to Zenyatta in the 2009 Classic have either won or placed in 16 Grade 1 races since last year.
If that doesn't seal it-then I don't what will

[blackthroatedwind]

More bad opinions. Nothing new.

They'll all be quite silent in a little over ten days.

[DaTruth]

More bad opinions. Nothing new.

They'll all be quite silent in a little over ten days.

Then we will begin hearing all sorts of conspiracy theories from the Zaniacs.

[DaTruth]

"But at the same time, I am amazed that Zenyatta continues to be dismissed as a synthetic specialist, as a stay-at-home California horse. For three years now, everyone has known where Zenyatta was, and this year she ran nothing but Grade I races. Still, few came looking to try her."

Oh I get it. She has proved that she is more than a synthetic specialist because few fillies and mares have shipped to SoCal to face her on synthetic surfaces.

[alysheba4]

More bad opinions. Nothing new.

They'll all be quite silent in a little over ten days.....god hopefully every side will.

[slotdirt]

This would have all been mercifully ended 11 months ago if they had just really retired her instead of holding a fake retirement ceremony.

[chucklestheclown]

More bad opinions. Nothing new.

They'll all be quite silent in a little over ten days.

Who do YOU think is going to win? I've seen a lot of posts but don't remember seeing your pick yet. I'm by no means a Zeetard, but I don't see why a reasonable person wouldn't have her on a P6ticket.

[blackthroatedwind]

Who do YOU think is going to win? I've seen a lot of posts but don't remember seeing your pick yet. I'm by no means a Zeetard, but I don't see why a reasonable person wouldn't have her on a P6ticket.

Yeah, I really need to start giving out opinions and taking stands.

[chucklestheclown]

OK. The only post I saw of yours on the Classic said Zenyatta would not be on your ticket. You didn't say who you were betting. I guess it's like that article posted earlier, people say she'll lose but don't say who they're picking to beat her. I realize it's a week away, but SURELY you have some sort of opinion on who else to toss or pick instead.

[chucklestheclown]

Did you see Drape's piece?

Is that the one I referred to? I'm reading too much BS on this to keep it straight.

[hockey2315]

Me too. . . Didn't even realize that was what everyone was talking about. It's hard to keep track of all the ridiculous hyperbole.

[Cannon Shell]

While there are several segments of the horse racing industry that are manned with less than competent people, no area is quite as poorly represented as what passes for turf writers. The sad fact that a complete buffoon like Drape could win 2 eclipse awards is really all you need to know.

If Peter King came out tomorrow and said that he was voting for Peyton Manning for MVP regardless of what happens the rest of the season he would be savaged and probably lose his vote.

As for the comment that last years Classic was one of the strongest fields ever? The cherry on top of Drapes **** sundae.

[Kasept]

Much like some of the prior lunacy about 'HOY even with a loss', Drape's "view" is receiving more admonishment than fawning concurrence. The last comment in the string is about as succinctly and respectfully laid out as could be...

It's unfortunate to see someone have such little respect for this great game that he would unabashedly announce his bias, at the expense of fairness and sanity, in the manner that Mr. Drape has done with this piece. As has been suggested in the preceding comments, at least several others, particularly Quality Road, Blame, and Lookin at Lucky, would be FAR more worthy Horses of the Year than Zenyatta with a Classic win. To declare, as Mr. Drape has done, that Zenyatta is Horse of the Year regardless of the Classic results, both ignores fairness and common sense. It is nothing but childish impudence by someone who will be clearly unwilling to admit he was wrong should Zenyatta run to her prior 2010 efforts and fail to make even a minor impact on this below average BC Classic field. Not only does Mr. Drape ignore her actual 2010 achievements, he ignores the actual manner in which she has performed in 2010, while unfairly chastising those that have viewed her 2010 performances with an unbiased eye. In kind, he also ignores that the reason none of these Classic hopefuls have faced her is that she has not run in one single race in 2010 that any member of this field was eligible to compete in. Mr. Drape would like readers to believe that it is others that have ducked her, when nothing could be further from the truth.

Zenyatta has had a wonderful, albeit well manicured ( so to speak ), career. She is the greatest synthetic performer of all time. Perhaps she will silence her doubters next weekend by proving this dominance extends to the dirt surface. If so, she is the deserving 2010 Horse of the Year. However, if she does not, it answers the question in a different manner, and for any voter to announce his decision before this question has been answered begs another question....should that voter really be allowed to submit a ballot?

[The Devil]

Much like some of the prior lunacy about 'HOY even with a loss', Drape's "view" is receiving more admonishment than fawning concurrence. The last comment in the string is about as succinctly and respectfully laid out as could be...

It's unfortunate to see someone have such little respect for this great game that he would unabashedly announce his bias, at the expense of fairness and sanity, in the manner that Mr. Drape has done with this piece. As has been suggested in the preceding comments, at least several others, particularly Quality Road, Blame, and Lookin at Lucky, would be FAR more worthy Horses of the Year than Zenyatta with a Classic win. To declare, as Mr. Drape has done, that Zenyatta is Horse of the Year regardless of the Classic results, both ignores fairness and common sense. It is nothing but childish impudence by someone who will be clearly unwilling to admit he was wrong should Zenyatta run to her prior 2010 efforts and fail to make even a minor impact on this below average BC Classic field. Not only does Mr. Drape ignore her actual 2010 achievements, he ignores the actual manner in which she has performed in 2010, while unfairly chastising those that have viewed her 2010 performances with an unbiased eye. In kind, he also ignores that the reason none of these Classic hopefuls have faced her is that she has not run in one single race in 2010 that any member of this field was eligible to compete in. Mr. Drape would like readers to believe that it is others that have ducked her, when nothing could be further from the truth.

Zenyatta has had a wonderful, albeit well manicured ( so to speak ), career. She is the greatest synthetic performer of all time. Perhaps she will silence her doubters next weekend by proving this dominance extends to the dirt surface. If so, she is the deserving 2010 Horse of the Year. However, if she does not, it answers the question in a different manner, and for any voter to announce his decision before this question has been answered begs another question....should that voter really be allowed to submit a ballot?

Amen! :tro:

[slotdirt]

Well written.

[Danzig]

an excellent reply to drape's ridiculous article.

[Indian Charlie]

She probably won't run anyways.

[randallscott35]

She probably won't run anyways.

Wouldn't shock me

[hockey2315]

She probably won't run anyways.

I'd cry. I can't wait to taunt the Z fans post-Classic.

[slotdirt]

Considering how many of them - males includes - will already be crying, that doesn't seem very...nice.

[Indian Charlie]

I'd cry. I can't wait to taunt the Z fans post-Classic.

That would be the most useless of endeavors. They will say stupid crap like, "She's a six year old and is three years past the time horses should even be running"

Or

"It was too speed favoring a track"

Or

"Flying over the Rockies sapped her will to win"

Or

"She wanted to be nice to her opposition"

Or

"Even though she's been to Arkansas twice, she got spooked by being around too many rednecks"

Etc.

Etc.

Ad nauseum

[Sightseek]

Everyone has a built in excuse, it's being run under the lights.

[Indian Charlie]

Everyone has a built in excuse, it's being run under the lights.

I didn't even consider that, but now that I think about it, that should favor her.

[the_fat_man]

I'd cry. I can't wait to taunt the Z fans post-Classic.

Did you taunt the RA fans after little Z beat her and she had to be subsequently/eventually retired? Did you taunt all those fans of the FAST QR when he got dusted? After all those threads about how he would have no trouble going 10F and would bury anything presently running? Seems to me you and all the Z bashers were very much fans of RA and QR. Which makes it interesting that all of you are finding the nuts to continually come after Z and her supporters.

I could care less if Z wins the Classic or not. But if I were all over RA and QR, I certainly would've shut the f u c k up at this point. Of course, all those that were WRONG about RA and QR have left is to go on the offensive and come after Z (and her supporters). And if Z fails, it still only means that you were right ONE out of THREE times. And if she wins it'll be because the field was very weak.:rolleyes:

The problem with all the s hi t being thrown around here is that all of you have a bit of a history of some very poor opinions. Hard to take any of you seriously after the QR debacle this year. The super horse. ha ha ha. Especially since I was one his (and RA's) harshest critics. Know what I mean, Ace?

So, you might want to wait a little bit longer. :rolleyes:

[Coach Pants]

The problem with all the s hi t being thrown around here is that all of you have a bit of a history of some very poor opinions. Hard to take any of you seriously after the QR debacle this year. The super horse. ha ha ha. Especially since I was one his (and RA's) harshest critics. Know what I mean, Ace?

So, you might want to wait a little bit longer. :rolleyes:
OMG

[Cannon Shell]

Almost as many excuses as Zenyettas detractors

Those would be referred to as facts as opposed to excuses.

Personally i believe Mike Smith will bear the brunt of the post-race criticism
a.Moved too early
b.Moved too late
c.Too wide
d.Got blocked
e.Didnt switch leads

[hockey2315]

Did you taunt the RA fans after little Z beat her and she had to be subsequently/eventually retired? Did you taunt all those fans of the FAST QR when he got dusted? After all those threads about how he would have no trouble going 10F and would bury anything presently running? Seems to me you and all the Z bashers were very much fans of RA and QR. Which makes it interesting that all of you are finding the nuts to continually come after Z and her supporters.

I could care less if Z wins the Classic or not. But if I were all over RA and QR, I certainly would've shut the f u c k up at this point. Of course, all those that were WRONG about RA and QR have left is to go on the offensive and come after Z (and her supporters). And if Z fails, it still only means that you were right ONE out of THREE times. And if she wins it'll be because the field was very weak.:rolleyes:

The problem with all the s hi t being thrown around here is that all of you have a bit of a history of some very poor opinions. Hard to take any of you seriously after the QR debacle this year. The super horse. ha ha ha. Especially since I was one his (and RA's) harshest critics. Know what I mean, Ace?

So, you might want to wait a little bit longer. :rolleyes:

As you've displayed, the complete insanity and irrationality of those stricken with Zen-fever eclipses anything positive ever said about the other two you've mentioned. The bigger they are, the harder they fall.

[Coach Pants]

^^
Captain Hindsight fan

[Cannon Shell]

I always get a kick of the word "facts". Whether used by politicians or horseplayers.

Probably one of the few who is not a "hater" or a "zealot" of the horse. More of a bemused onlooker.

I do think it is a great opportunity to make money- betting against her.

But dont get how personal the whole thing has gotten from both sides.

If she wins (which dont think will happen) not one of her haters would say "I was wrong". They would just dig in some more. Thats the way its always gone. And if she loses (which think will be the case) you will have people saying "see" and try to discredit every race she has ever run. Which is just silly and childish.

The thing is that, what many of the supposed detractors have pointed out wont be washed away with a win in the Classic. The weakness of her competition for the vast majority of her career and especially this year's inane schedule for a horse aiming for a horse of the year title is hardly childish or silly. I think the telling part of the argument is that when confronted with this the Zenyatta zealots don't come up with a counterpoint to the claim but launch counter attacks that we dont "appreciate greatness, she is special, you are just a hater, she is better than RA, ..."

Most of her 'detractors' make the point that we believe she is a very talented horse. But the facts are she has 2 dirt wins, 1 win over males and this year has beaten pretty much a bunch of mediocre (to be nice) fillies and yet we are supposed to rank her with Citation?

[TouchOfGrey]

Most of her 'detractors' make the point that we believe she is a very talented horse. But the facts are she has 2 dirt wins, 1 win over males and this year has beaten pretty much a bunch of mediocre (to be nice) fillies and yet we are supposed to rank her with Citation?

Citation didn't dance.

[Cannon Shell]

Citation didn't dance.

He danced as well as Kurt Warner

[alysheba4]

i used to own a 50 year anniversary video about H.P which had a lot of fotage of
citation.......what a tremendous looking horse he was.

[Antitrust32]

Citation didn't dance.

:tro::tro::tro:

[Clip-Clop]

He has confused competetive with "great" the field looks like it will make a great betting race. Lots of races do that. Does not make them great. Ghostzappers was really solid in recent memory.

[Cannon Shell]

So if she wins 20 in a row, including two Classics you will stick to your guns right? Thats exactly my point. Both fringes have invested so much emotionally that nothing, and i mean nothing, will change their minds.

To me if even if she finishes last she is a Hall of Famer and one of the best mares of all time. If she wins the Classic hard for me to argue she is not the best mare (didn't say horse) of all time.

I dont care what the quality of the competition is to win that many in a row, with that running style is simply amazing., Even if most of the wins were on the fake stuff.

I thought the voters got it right last year with HOY too.

Are you not comprehending? No one is denying that she is a hall of famer and one of the best mares of all time. And if she wins the Classic for a 2nd year in a row than she very well may be the best mare. BUT that isn't what the Z-tards will accept for her 'legacy'. We are constantly told she is one of the best if not THE best horse of all time. Once again, the streak is a great accomplishment but simply winning isn't enough to break into the pantheon. The hyperbole is what aggravates many of us. This isn't the "best field ever" assembled for the Classic. Last years wasn't either. She isn't the greatest horse ever. She shouldnt be horse of the year if she loses the Classic. People pointing these things out arent haters. They are simply grounded.

[Indian Charlie]

I don't think she's one of the best mares of all time.

Does that make me a hater? Only if you are a Zenyattard.

I love how Z fans proclaim how neutral they are, then go on to say anyone who disagrees with them is a Z hater.

Like Homer.

[DaTruth]

I don't think she's one of the best mares of all time.

Does that make me a hater? Only if you are a Zenyattard.

I love how Z fans proclaim how neutral they are, then go on to say anyone who disagrees with them is a Z hater.

Like Homer.

Just think, before Zenyatta came along, Clever Trevor was regarded in some quarters as the best horse to ever win a major route stakes over a synthetic surface in the U.S. Now, without a doubt, that title belongs solely to Zenyatta. Well done.

[chucklestheclown]

I don't think she's one of the best mares of all time.

Does that make me a hater? Only if you are a Zenyattard.

I love how Z fans proclaim how neutral they are, then go on to say anyone who disagrees with them is a Z hater.

Like Homer.

I do not think she is one of the best mares in the past 10 years. If by that you mean top 5.

[Danzig]

Well what's really funny is that Zenyatta herself can't ask why more boys won't come out and play. Maybe simply put they just took there ball and went home. It's not the fault of the Moss's or the Sheriffs who decides to run or not run. The BC Cup is a joke nowadays with punchdrunk journalists who try to shove the breeders cup down out throat. It's they decide who wins year end honors and the Zenyatta camp should be commended for coming back another year when so many choose to retire early. I say bravo to the Zenyatta faithful and good luck to this wonderful racemare. I hope she comes back well and enjoys her retirement.:D

the boys can't come and play when she runs in races restricted to fillies and mares.

[Danzig]

Yes all fair points. Not saying anyone making them is by definition a hater. But I also think the zenyettiacs are a logical reaction to those who have constantly criticized her. Both slides are blind.

how can they be fair points, and then be made by someone who is blind? that makes no sense. i haven't seen anyone yet who says they hate the horse. no one hates her. altho many may take exception to the rampant hyperbole, their feelings are limited to the delirious fans, not directed at the horse.

zenyatta is absolutely a special horse, one who has managed a win where no one else of her sex has triumphed. everyone gives credit where it's due. the patience is lost when people say 'even secretariat and man o war lost' or that she's the best ever. no, she's not. there's also the fact that her owners think that running in one decent race a year should qualify her as being the horse of the year. no, it doesn't, and it shouldn't. if it were any horse other than zenyatta with the racing done this year being mentioned that way, the person doing the mentioning would be shouted down. but because it's zenyatta, it's over the top.

[herkhorse]

OMG. Kudos to those of you still trying.

[pucknut]

have none of her wins come on dirt?

[Indian Charlie]

I do not think she is one of the best mares in the past 10 years. If by that you mean top 5.

Huh?

[Cannon Shell]

Yes all fair points. Not saying anyone making them is by definition a hater. But I also think the zenyettiacs are a logical reaction to those who have constantly criticized her. Both slides are blind.

I believe that the supposed haters are far more a reaction to the Zidiots than vice versa.

[Cannon Shell]

Well what's really funny is that Zenyatta herself can't ask why more boys won't come out and play. Maybe simply put they just took there ball and went home. It's not the fault of the Moss's or the Sheriffs who decides to run or not run. The BC Cup is a joke nowadays with punchdrunk journalists who try to shove the breeders cup down out throat. It's they decide who wins year end honors and the Zenyatta camp should be commended for coming back another year when so many choose to retire early. I say bravo to the Zenyatta faithful and good luck to this wonderful racemare. I hope she comes back well and enjoys her retirement.:D

Please tell me there is some kind of tongue-in-cheek meaning that I am missing?

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

Please tell me there is some kind of tongue-in-cheek meaning that I am missing?

save your breath..it will all come crashing down next sat..

[blackthroatedwind]

Please tell me there is some kind of tongue-in-cheek meaning that I am missing?


I'm afraid there is some secret code in there having nothing to do with horse racing.

[Slewbopper]

It's the strongest BC Classic field
since 2008.

Yeah, it is powerhouse field. Has one G1 winner at the distance on dirt. And he is a NYB

[Danzig]

Please spare the drama. No one is being shouted down. What are you Jimmy Stewart now in Mr Smith Goes to Washington.

I am saying the points on the surface are fair ones. It doesnt mean the person making them is necessarily being fair.

Whats the old saw about stats being used for support not illumination?

People with an entrenched opinion will usually reach out for something that supports their point of view. Not challenges it.

And if she wins the Classic again and people still wont accept her then they are blind. And silly. Again both fringes of the discussion, and not even sure its a fringe anymore seems like everyone has a strong opinion one way or the other- keep upping the ante. Letting emotion get the best of them

um, i said this:

if it were any horse other than zenyatta with the racing done this year being mentioned that way, the person doing the mentioning would be shouted down.


how that means i said someone IS being shouted down, i don't know....

my point is, people are saying zenyatta's career makes her deserving of HOY. that is incorrect. just looking at what she's done this year in no way, shape or form qualifies her for even being mentioned....blind luck hasn't got a shot in hell at the same award, to this point i'd say she's had a tougher year than zenyatta. but, it's the 'queen'. if her owner was so intent on winning the award, he should have raced her accordingly. not ducked and dodged the same as last year, and expect a different outcome. one big race does not hoy make. rachel won last year because she had an extraordinary season, while zenyatta had one extraordinary race-which is exactly what she might end up with again this year. her races this year have been anything but extraordinary. only her compilation of wins over four years time is extraordinary. for that, she'll one day be in the hall of fame.

[Danzig]

have none of her wins come on dirt?

yep, but not at 10f.

[Princess Doreen]

Good read -

http://www.anddownthestretchtheycome.com/2010/10/29/1781741/2010-breeders-cup-classic-preview

[chucklestheclown]

Good read -

http://www.anddownthestretchtheycome.com/2010/10/29/1781741/2010-breeders-cup-classic-preview

Thanks Princess! Where's that excel file he referred to?

[Princess Doreen]

Thanks Princess! Where's that excel file he referred to?

It's in his message - a small version of it; just double click on it.

[chucklestheclown]

Huh?

If best is top 5 I would not put her there.

[chucklestheclown]

It's in his message - a small version of it; just double click on it.

Thanks, but that's just the Classic...He said he has all BC races somewhere. Guess it's in another post?

[Princess Doreen]

Thanks, but that's just the Classic...He said he has all BC races somewhere. Guess it's in another post?

I took his comment to mean all the BCC races?!~

[chucklestheclown]

I took his comment to mean all the BCC races?!~

When I click on the box I just get the Classic. Am I doing something wrong? Because I am VERY interested in seeing all of them.:D

[Princess Doreen]

When I click on the box I just get the Classic. Am I doing something wrong? Because I am VERY interested in seeing all of them.:D

OKAY! Let me rephrase. I took his comment to mean just the BC Classic races - not ALL the BC races.

His e-mail is adtstc@hotmail.com if you want to ask him if he has like info on the other BC races.

[chucklestheclown]

OKAY! Let me rephrase. I took his comment to mean just the BC Classic races - not ALL the BC races.

His e-mail is adtstc@hotmail.com if you want to ask him if he has like info on the other BC races.

Thanks. I took it differently and JUST SAW YOUR EDIT. I will e-mail him tomorrow. GRL.