Kip Deville to IEAH

[mp3]

read a post inquiring as to the new owner. Read it on there website. They are pointing him to the col cup and va derby. Saw he worked extremely fast at aqueduct today. This horse will be a serious threat in those races under Dutrows tutelage.

[boldruler]

read a post inquiring as to the new owner. Read it on there website. They are pointing him to the col cup and va derby. Saw he worked extremely fast at aqueduct today. This horse will be a serious threat in those races under Dutrows tutelage.

If my friend gets back in the country by that weekend I am going to that race. Anyone else going? It is a smart race to point towards because of the money, but he is running for 3rd place at best. Still that is a nice check out of $1 million.

[mp3]

who have you heard. I heard showing up and stream cat. Off the numbers he is right with Showing up and towers over stream cat. He was trained by Mike neatherlin and ran a 99 beyer and 5.75 rag. Will move up decidedly for RD.

[boldruler]

who have you heard. I heard showing up and stream cat. Off the numbers he is right with Showing up and towers over stream cat. He was trained by Mike neatherlin and ran a 99 beyer and 5.75 rag. Will move up decidedly for RD.

$500,000K is way too much to pay for that horse unless they think he can get it back in the next two races. He is an OK bred and $500K is a pretty penny for a horse that couldn't even handle allowance horses on the turf at Remington. His other turf win was in a $13,000 allowance race. More inclined to think he liked a soft turf than think he is a good horse because of a $75K turf win at Lonestar. His efforts against Lawyer Ron on the dirt were just terrible.

He really isn't there with Showing Up because Showing Up has no figures. SU loves the turf though. He made English Channel look slow yesterday morning at Belmont. I guess he could beat Hurley's horse. It is horse racing though, so you never know.

[Scav]

Bold Ruler,

That is an AWFUL powerful statement making English Channel look slow, he must be a monster on the turf

[boldruler]

Bold Ruler,

That is an AWFUL powerful statement making English Channel look slow, he must be a monster on the turf


EC worked pretty slow (race this weekend) so it really is hard to say and Showing Up's work was incredibly fast. It appears that he took to the turf. I didn't see the works just heard about them last night and read the times yesterday. SU's time was significantly faster than any other horse on the turf. My friend said Showing Up is super fast but distance could be a problem. Not an expert, but I was told it will be interesting to see how SU's speed works on the turf where it usually is better to come from off the pace. SU is no Barbaro though but a nice replacement. 3yr olds on the turf this year aren't much, probably why the bought that horse. None of them stand a chance of winning that bonus because they would have to beat older horses in the BC. Still $1M races are tough to come by. Wonder where all the Europeans are.

[boldruler]

Distance: Five Furlongs
Breed Type: Thoroughbred
Surface: Inner turf
Track: Good

Horse Name Time Notes Rank Add to

BLAZING PURRSUIT (KY) 1:03.55 b 3/8
CERTIFIABLY CRAZY (NY) 1:04.94 b 6/8
CLOAKOF VAGUENESS (KY) 1:03.51 b 2/8
GOLDEN COMMANDER (NY) 1:05.14 b 7/8
MASSEUSE (KY) 1:04.66 b 5/8
PRIME DIAMOND (NY) 1:05.84 b 8/8
SHOWING UP (KY) 1:02.01 b 1/8
SILVER WHISTLE (KY) 1:04.34 b 4/8

Distance: Four Furlongs
Breed Type: Thoroughbred
Surface: Inner turf
Track: Good

Horse Name Time Notes Rank Add to

ALL TRUMPS (KY) 53.01 b 12/19
BRIGHT ABUNDANCE (KY) 51.24 b 5/19
BRUNILDA (ARG) 49.80 b 1/19
DEFER (KY) 53.34 b 14/19
ENGLISH CHANNEL (KY) 52.91 b 11/19

[oracle80]

EC worked pretty slow (race this weekend) so it really is hard to say and Showing Up's work was incredibly fast. It appears that he took to the turf. I didn't see the works just heard about them last night and read the times yesterday. SU's time was significantly faster than any other horse on the turf. My friend said Showing Up is super fast but distance could be a problem. Not an expert, but I was told it will be interesting to see how SU's speed works on the turf where it usually is better to come from off the pace. SU is no Barbaro though but a nice replacement. 3yr olds on the turf this year aren't much, probably why the bought that horse. None of them stand a chance of winning that bonus because they would have to beat older horses in the BC. Still $1M races are tough to come by. Wonder where all the Europeans are.


Ruler please get a clue. EC would mop teh floor with any 3YO in teh country on grass. My clocker said his work was great. Todd (Unlike ceratin trainers who take older horses off form with scorching works once a week, cough cough ahem) works his horses in a controlled manner only looking for them to finish well and travel well. Horse is racing this week, what should he have done, work him in 58 flat? You are talking about the greatest trainer in teh world, noone else is close, I think he knows what hes doing.

[boldruler]

Ruler please get a clue. EC would mop teh floor with any 3YO in teh country on grass. My clocker said his work was great. Todd (Unlike ceratin trainers who take older horses off form with scorching works once a week, cough cough ahem) works his horses in a controlled manner only looking for them to finish well and travel well. Horse is racing this week, what should he have done, work him in 58 flat? You are talking about the greatest trainer in teh world, noone else is close, I think he knows what hes doing.

Got to take a shot at you Oracle, and I have a feeling I will pay for it, but it is hard for me to listen to a guy telling me to get a clue when that guy didn't know Barbican broke his ankle. His throat ulcer kept him out of training for a week, not the entire spring. Go ahead, unload. I will be back to read later. :)

[zippyneedsawin]

I think I read an article that the "dogs" were out on the turf course as well, meaning the horses were running some 30-40 feet (or more) off of the rail. That alone can account for the "slow" workout times.

[zippyneedsawin]

yep, it was in this article(3rd paragraph):



http://drf.com/news/article/75239.html

[boldruler]

I think I read an article that the "dogs" were out on the turf course as well, meaning the horses were running some 30-40 feet (or more) off of the rail. That alone can account for the "slow" workout times.

The works were all slow from that standpoint. SU ran an extra furlong in 9 seconds compared to EC. EC I am sure was just stretching his legs, but I can see why people would think SU made EC look slow. Turf racing is weird though, SU's speed could be his worst enemy on the turf. I know they thought long and hard about the 8.5 F Dwyer, but one has a purse that is $850K more and nothing spectacular running in it. Discrete Cat and Corinthian are targetting the Dwyer and OK breds like the horse mentioned above are targeting the VA race. Easy call.

[jpops757]

read a post inquiring as to the new owner. Read it on there website. They are pointing him to the col cup and va derby. Saw he worked extremely fast at aqueduct today. This horse will be a serious threat in those races under Dutrows tutelage.
Didnt Roy retain 10%. He was 1/2 owner with neederlin. I heard that Neaderlin tried to talk them into running against Stream cat last week-end at LS

[Exceller]

read a post inquiring as to the new owner. Read it on there website. They are pointing him to the col cup and va derby. Saw he worked extremely fast at aqueduct today. This horse will be a serious threat in those races under Dutrows tutelage.

Do you own part of this horse or work for Dutrow because that horse is nothing special.

[mp3]

don't own him. just noticed that someone had posted as to whom bought him. Was browsing the ieah website and saw they did. Called them to inquire if any was for sale. They said no. Nice guy by the name of mike sherack spoke to me. He told me that dutrow told them this horse could end up being the best horse he has ever trained. Remember this post..He was not selling me a line because he wasn't offering any of him for sale. He said he breezed in company with love of money today and toyed with him. They said he moves way up on the turf. I love finding horses nobody knows about. Anyone can talk about Showing up or stream cat, Kip flies under the radar and that is what I look for....Jeff

[Exceller]

don't own him. just noticed that someone had posted as to whom bought him. Was browsing the ieah website and saw they did. Called them to inquire if any was for sale. They said no. Nice guy by the name of mike sherack spoke to me. He told me that dutrow told them this horse could end up being the best horse he has ever trained. Remember this post..He was not selling me a line because he wasn't offering any of him for sale. He said he breezed in company with love of money today and toyed with him. They said he moves way up on the turf. I love finding horses nobody knows about. Anyone can talk about Showing up or stream cat, Kip flies under the radar and that is what I look for....Jeff

The best horse he ever trained? The guy had Saint Liam and has Silver Train. That horse is running with cheap allowance horses and won a race in TX on a terrible course. Good luck if you bet on him in that race although Dutrow will have him ready. Don't worry they didn't sell you any, if you wait about 8-10 months you can buy him in the 15K claimer at Aqueduct. Kidding.

[randallscott35]

The best horse he ever trained? The guy had Saint Liam and has Silver Train. That horse is running with cheap allowance horses and won a race in TX on a terrible course. Good luck if you bet on him in that race although Dutrow will have him ready. Don't worry they didn't sell you any, if you wait about 8-10 months you can buy him in the 15K claimer at Aqueduct. Kidding.


A 25 claimer. LOL

[mp3]

why wish them misery?

[oracle80]

why wish them misery?
Because they are idiots, thats why mp3

[oracle80]

YOU know guys. Its real easy to knock an owner and his or her horses.
Its a game in whihc they lose way more offten than they win.
YOu think I'm rude because I bust on people and their statements sometimes? Well lemme tell you whats really rude.
Really rude is a guy or gal or someone else coming to this board and sharing the fact that they have ownership in a horse and then knocking or bashing their horses, thats whats rude.
Obviously Exceller has a percentage with West Point, Boldruler has friends who are tight with the Jackson's etc. See, I wouldn't and most others wouldn't bash or knock these people or their horses knowing that they are here and posting.
You are out of line guys, way out of line.
IEAh is a group of successful people who have been playing in the horse game quite successfully. They like to buy horses who are alrady proven runners, and even though you often pay more money for these types, its certainly a highe percentage move than paying 500 grand here and there for unproven yearlings.
Now mp3 sounds like a guy who may have invested in this group, or wants to or knows them. I don't know him from a hole in the ground. I haven't heard anyone bashing West point or the Jacksons, what the heck gives you the audacity to insult IEAH?
If someone comes on this site, and has ownership in a stable, you can bet your ass I'm not going to insult them or their horses.
By the way Iavarone is as sharp as any owner out there and has a good crew, especially Sherack.

[boldruler]

Boldruler in regards to times of workouts I have to agree with Oracle strongly on this one. Its not the time, it is the manner in which the horse trained and how well he finished- final times do not tell the whole story.

I try to limit myself to 10 posts a day and hate to waste one answering this, but if you read my statement above it says that people at the track told me Showing Up looked better than anyone in the morning works. EC is a proven great horse on the turf but obviously the Jackson's horse took a liking to the surface.

[boldruler]

YOU know guys. Its real easy to knock an owner and his or her horses.
Its a game in whihc they lose way more offten than they win.
YOu think I'm rude because I bust on people and their statements sometimes? Well lemme tell you whats really rude.
Really rude is a guy or gal or someone else coming to this board and sharing the fact that they have ownership in a horse and then knocking or bashing their horses, thats whats rude.
Obviously Exceller has a percentage with West Point, Boldruler has friends who are tight with the Jackson's etc. See, I wouldn't and most others wouldn't bash or knock these people or their horses knowing that they are here and posting.
You are out of line guys, way out of line.
IEAh is a group of successful people who have been playing in the horse game quite successfully. They like to buy horses who are alrady proven runners, and even though you often pay more money for these types, its certainly a highe percentage move than paying 500 grand here and there for unproven yearlings.
Now mp3 sounds like a guy who may have invested in this group, or wants to or knows them. I don't know him from a hole in the ground. I haven't heard anyone bashing West point or the Jacksons, what the heck gives you the audacity to insult IEAH?
If someone comes on this site, and has ownership in a stable, you can bet your ass I'm not going to insult them or their horses.
By the way Iavarone is as sharp as any owner out there and has a good crew, especially Sherack.

I can't see where anyone bashed any horse. Sounds more like good competitive chatting. I just said that was a lot of money for a purchase of that horse. Thats my opinion and chats are 90% opinion. I even said it is horse racing and you never know. I must admit I did laugh at the 25K claimer comment, but I think people are joking. MP3 seems to be a smart guy but making the statement that this horse is up there with a BC Classic winner is going to get some comments. Like I said before though, it is horse racing and anything can happen.

"Way out of line" coming from Oracle's mouth. Well I will leave that one alone.

[mp3]

Mp3 did not say KP was up there with a breeders cup winner. He never compared KD to EC. Someone else compared SU to EC. I only made a suggestive comparison between SU and KD based upon turf experience and turf acclomplisments. That is it. I never have questioned the abilities or denegraded any horse mentioned in this conversation. I hope that KD wins even though I couyldn't buy him because I get the feeling that most posters on this board seem to think they have it all figured out

[Exceller]

Mp3 did not say KP was up there with a breeders cup winner. He never compared KD to EC. Someone else compared SU to EC. I only made a suggestive comparison between SU and KD based upon turf experience and turf acclomplisments. That is it. I never have questioned the abilities or denegraded any horse mentioned in this conversation. I hope that KD wins even though I couyldn't buy him because I get the feeling that most posters on this board seem to think they have it all figured out


I think he was talking about how you said he could be as good as St. Liam or Silver Train, which I mentioned in my post. We will see in a few weeks.

[mp3]

AHHH got you. Trainer made that comparison, not mp3

[Exceller]

AHHH got you. Trainer made that comparison, not mp3

Trainer must have some extra special potion prepared for that horse if he is comparing him to a horse in St. Liams category.

[mp3]

you are clearly a jackass. That is a response that is made by a person that needs to evaluate his own embarrassing pathetic life.

[Exceller]

you are clearly a jackass. That is a response that is made by a person that needs to evaluate his own embarrassing pathetic life.

You are absolutely clueless if you really believe the trainer said that. That was IEAH sales people pulling your leg. St. Liam was one of the best horses in the last 10 years. Almost in Ghostzappers category. KD has shown nothing to even put him in the top 20 3yr olds in the country.

[mp3]

do you know dutrow? how do you know he didn't say that. didn't he say that Sliver Train was running in the suburban and then change his mind. Check your facts before making affirmative statements. You could end up looking foolish.

[mp3]

when dutrow got st liam was he one of the top 100 horses in the world? what about silver train? what about sis city off the claim. come on whats your point. A good trainer can recognize talent and a good team brings it out of them. Kip Deville is probably more accomplished than all of those horses at the time he recieved them

[Exceller]

do you know dutrow? how do you know he didn't say that. didn't he say that Sliver Train was running in the suburban and then change his mind. Check your facts before making affirmative statements. You could end up looking foolish.

I don't know him but I am 100% positive that he doesn't even think let alone say that KD is in the same category as St. Liam. Do you have any idea who St. Liam was? He was a superstar. I hate to tell you this but you are the one looking foolish.

[Exceller]

when dutrow got st liam was he one of the top 100 horses in the world? what about silver train? what about sis city off the claim. come on whats your point. A good trainer can recognize talent and a good team brings it out of them. Kip Deville is probably more accomplished than all of those horses at the time he recieved them

Saint Liam is a Saint Ballado out of a Quiet American mare. He was Horse of the Year. Kip Deville is an Oklahoma bred out of Kipling and an Encino mare. There is nothing there. Nothing.

[Cajungator26]

Saint Liam is a Saint Ballado out of a Quiet American mare. He was Horse of the Year. Kip Deville is an Oklahoma bred out of Kipling and an Encino mare. There is nothing there. Nothing.

Not agreeing or disagreeing here with either of you, but let me just say that to me, bloodlines mean very little. If the horse can run, I don't care who his sire was. JMO.

[Exceller]

Not agreeing or disagreeing here with either of you, but let me just say that to me, bloodlines mean very little. If the horse can run, I don't care who his sire was. JMO.

In my opinion bloodlines mean everything when talking about the elite in horse racing. The saying breed the best to the best and hope for the best exists for a reason. Show me a horse of the year from an OK bred. Show me any great horse that came from bad bloodlines.

The fact is that horse has done nothing to date. It is insulting to St. Liam to compare the two.

[Cajungator26]

In my opinion bloodlines mean everything when talking about the elite in horse racing. The saying breed the best to the best and hope for the best exists for a reason. Show me a horse of the year from an OK bred. Show me any great horse that came from bad bloodlines.

The fact is that horse has done nothing to date. It is insulting to St. Liam to compare the two.

Like I said, I wasn't agreeing or disagreeing. Even the great ones started from a humble beginning at some point...

[Exceller]

Like I said, I wasn't agreeing or disagreeing. Even the great ones started from a humble beginning at some point...

No great horse came from breeding like KD's. He is an average horse with below average breeding. He has done nothing to make anyone think he could ever be Horse of the Year. There is ZERO chance Dutrow said this horse could be his best ever. I know groups like IEAH and they say anything. The business is just full of snake oil salesmen. The fact that this guy called me a jackass is too funny. Anyone that would believe that garbage IEAH fed him is pretty gullible.

[Cajungator26]

No great horse came from breeding like KD's. He is an average horse with below average breeding. He has done nothing to make anyone think he could ever be Horse of the Year. There is ZERO chance Dutrow said this horse could be his best ever. I know groups like IEAH and they say anything. The business is just full of snake oil salesmen.

This is my last post on this topic, since you obviously didn't read my previous ones. I don't know what ANYONE said because I wasn't personally there. I do know this... Saint Liam could have been the most perfectly bred horse on the track and not won a thing. There have been PLENTY of cases such as that, but instead, he WON and THAT is what made him a great horse. NOT his bloodlines. As for Kip, I won't judge him until I see him race some good races.

[Exceller]

This is my last post on this topic, since you obviously didn't read my previous ones. I don't know what ANYONE said because I wasn't personally there. I do know this... Saint Liam could have been the most perfectly bred horse on the track and not won a thing. There have been PLENTY of cases such as that, but instead, he WON and THAT is what made him a great horse. NOT his bloodlines. As for Kip, I won't judge him until I see him race some good races.

You made my point. Nobody would judge him until he does something. Putting him in the category with St. Liam is something nobody would do off his average race career and average breeding.

[oracle80]

No great horse came from breeding like KD's. He is an average horse with below average breeding. He has done nothing to make anyone think he could ever be Horse of the Year. There is ZERO chance Dutrow said this horse could be his best ever. I know groups like IEAH and they say anything. The business is just full of snake oil salesmen. The fact that this guy called me a jackass is too funny. Anyone that would believe that garbage IEAH fed him is pretty gullible.


Oh yeah? Ever hear of a son of Ole Bob Bowers named John Henry.
And watch who you call snake oil salesman, Iavarone puts up a lot of his OWN cash, not just investors money. Its easy to buy horses with investors money, takes brass balls to kick up your own.
But yeah, comparisons to St Liam are a "tad" premature, LOL! haveto know Dutrow and how he says things. Hes probably very high on the horse.

[oracle80]

You made my point. Nobody would judge him until he does something. Putting him in the category with St. Liam is something nobody would do off his average race career and average breeding.
Performance makes racehorses, not breeding. But your other point is completely valid about having to do something before he is compared to anyone, lol.
Question about breeding. I saw a lot syndicates and ownesr spend a lot of cash last year on expensive horses with "great pedigrees". IEAH and partners bought a "lowly" daughter of Real Quiet out of a WIld Zone mare who has won a grade 2, placed in 2 other grade 2's, and was 4th in the Oaks.
How do you explain this if pedigree is such a determinant factor.
P.S. They are already "out" on the purchase and andything else she does on the track is gravy, to go along with the broodmare value that a grade two winner has. Looks like "the snakeoil" salesman did a lot of good by himself and his people with that one.

[Exceller]

Oh yeah? Ever hear of a son of Ole Bob Bowers named John Henry.
And watch who you call snake oil salesman, Iavarone puts up a lot of his OWN cash, not just investors money. Its easy to buy horses with investors money, takes brass balls to kick up your own.
But yeah, comparisons to St Liam are a "tad" premature, LOL! haveto know Dutrow and how he says things. Hes probably very high on the horse.

John Henry (KY) was well bred despite the fact that people like to make him out to be the horse that overcame great odds. Ole Bob Bowers was a stakes winner that set the world record at 9f. Once Double was also the daughter of Juvenile Champ Double Jay.

KD is an OK bred out of horses I have never heard of.

[Exceller]

Performance makes racehorses, not breeding. But your other point is completely valid about having to do something before he is compared to anyone, lol.
Question about breeding. I saw a lot syndicates and ownesr spend a lot of cash last year on expensive horses with "great pedigrees". IEAH and partners bought a "lowly" daughter of Real Quiet out of a WIld Zone mare who has won a grade 2, placed in 2 other grade 2's, and was 4th in the Oaks.
How do you explain this if pedigree is such a determinant factor.
P.S. They are already "out" on the purchase and andything else she does on the track is gravy, to go along with the broodmare value that a grade two winner has. Looks like "the snakeoil" salesman did a lot of good by himself and his people with that one.

Real Quiet nearly won the triple crown. KD is out of who? Also fillies are a completely different story. They will always have value for breeding purposes.

[oracle80]

Real Quiet nearly won the triple crown. KD is out of who?
You avoided the question. At the the time real Quiet had not sired anything, and had been given up on and sent to Pennsylvania. He was considered a total bust. But a sharp guy saw one he thought could really run, and would stretch out later in the year.................... She cost 8 grand at auction to the original owner. Ive seen her finish ahead of a lotta high 6 figure and 7 figure purchases.

[Exceller]

You avoided the question. At the the time real Quiet had not sired anything, and had been given up on and sent to Pennsylvania. He was considered a total bust. But a sharp guy saw one he thought could really run, and would stretch out later in the year.................... She cost 8 grand at auction to the original owner. Ive seen her finish ahead of a lotta high 6 figure and 7 figure purchases.

That is a good buy but the horse is still out of a KD Winner. There are tons of low priced horses that turn out great but you can look at their breeding an explain it. No horse with KD breeding will ever be Horse of the Year caliber. I just won't happen.

[Cajungator26]

That is a good buy but the horse is still out of a KD Winner. There are tons of low priced horses that turn out great but you can look at their breeding an explain it. No horse with KD breeding will ever be Horse of the Year caliber. I just won't happen.

Let's get another thing straight...

Kip Deville is by Kipling who is by Gulch and out of a Storm Bird mare. You've never heard of those horses before? ;)

[oracle80]

Let's get another thing straight...

Kip Deville is by Kipling who is by Gulch and out of a Storm Bird mare. You've never heard of those horses before? ;)


LOL!!!! Thats whats funny, if you go far enough back in any tbred they are ALL well bred. besides, who cares about breeding once they show you they are fast and have heart. I couldnt care less about who they are by once they show me what they can do.

[Cajungator26]

LOL!!!! Thats whats funny, if you go far enough back in any tbred they are ALL well bred. besides, who cares about breeding once they show you they are fast and have heart. I couldnt care less about who they are by once they show me what they can do.

Me either... as long as they can run, I really could care less about their pedigree.

[Exceller]

Me either... as long as they can run, I really could care less about their pedigree.

I know you are joking about Gulch. Now if Gulch was on the bottom maybe, but Encino a career earner of $34K is there.

Ok, on talent then, what has this horse done for someone to pay $500K for him and then compare him to St.Liam? Now if they were joking ok, but the MP3 guy clearly believes that. That borders on insanity.

[Cajungator26]

I know you are joking about Gulch. Now if Gulch was on the bottom maybe, but Encino a career earner of $34K is there.

Ok, on talent then, what has this horse done for someone to pay $500K for him and then compare him to St.Liam? Now if they were joking ok, but the MP3 guy clearly believes that. That borders on insanity.

YOUR posts are bordering on insanity with all of the pedigree mumbo jumbo... please tell me YOU are joking about Encino? If this person wants to believe that Kip Deville will be a great horse, then let him! Who are you to say that he won't be? I sure as hell won't judge him until he proves me otherwise. LOL!

Encino is by Nijinsky II who is by Northern Dancer. Hmmm... who the hell is Northern Dancer? Never heard of him! :p

[Exceller]

YOUR posts are bordering on insanity with all of the pedigree mumbo jumbo... please tell me YOU are joking about Encino? If this person wants to believe that Kip Deville will be a great horse, then let him! Who are you to say that he won't be? I sure as hell won't judge him until he proves me otherwise. LOL!

Encino is by Nijinsky II who is by Northern Dancer. Hmmm... who the hell is Northern Dancer? Never heard of him! :p

Why don't you go back to the Goldolphin Barb. KD could be a great horse but comparing him to St. Liam is ridiculous. Maybe if they guy/girl didn't speak in the third person I wouldn't have gotten all over him.

[Cajungator26]

Why don't you go back to the Goldolphin Barb. KD could be a great horse but comparing him to St. Liam is ridiculous. Maybe if they guy/girl didn't speak in the third person I wouldn't have gotten all over him.

And I wouldn't have gotten all over you if you wouldn't have made the kinds of references you did without properly researching them. I'm not comparing KD to St. Liam, but I didn't agree with your comments about his lack of "pedigree" and the fact that he would NEVER be an Eclipse award winning horse because of his lack of "blue blood." Winning races is what wins that award and if he wins the races, then he is just as worthy as any other "properly pedigreed" horse.

[oracle80]

I know you are joking about Gulch. Now if Gulch was on the bottom maybe, but Encino a career earner of $34K is there.

Ok, on talent then, what has this horse done for someone to pay $500K for him and then compare him to St.Liam? Now if they were joking ok, but the MP3 guy clearly believes that. That borders on insanity.
Exceller,
Ricky is a funny guy and he gets very emotional when he sees a horse work good. I think he probably saw the horse work good and got excited, don't know for sure.
I agree with you that comparisons to greats like St Liam are premature. But really, I would think you questioning them paying 500 grand for teh horse is a bit funny. Look I respect everyone who stands up and takes a shot in this game. EVERYONE!!! Even if i dont like them, I respect them, you dont haveto like someone to respect someone. Now look, if you wanna get into whose a bad buy, I recently saw one you guys own who was purchased for like 230 K debut in a maiden 40 claimer. Look, everyone makes bad buys, everyone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is a game where you are gonna buy a lotta bad ones looking for a good one. Now at yearling sales, people dont bash others because they dont know what the horse will do.
With private purchases they have a track record. Personally when i do a deal the price is NEVER ANNOUNCED!!! See. I'm a nyer, and nyer's don't rat, no matter what. Its our best trait. And quite frankly if IEAH thinks the horse is worth that much who is anyone to bash them? Some pretty good folks do business with them, Joe Torre and Coach Mike Jarvis even do business with them. And if you look at what their runners have done the last couple of years, with many being purchased at lower end or mid level prices, I would say they are doing pretty damn good.

[Exceller]

Exceller,
Ricky is a funny guy and he gets very emotional when he sees a horse work good. I think he probably saw the horse work good and got excited, don't know for sure.
I agree with you that comparisons to greats like St Liam are premature. But really, I would think you questioning them paying 500 grand for teh horse is a bit funny. Look I respect everyone who stands up and takes a shot in this game. EVERYONE!!! Even if i dont like them, I respect them, you dont haveto like someone to respect someone. Now look, if you wanna get into whose a bad buy, I recently saw one you guys own who was purchased for like 230 K debut in a maiden 40 claimer. Look, everyone makes bad buys, everyone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is a game where you are gonna buy a lotta bad ones looking for a good one. Now at yearling sales, people dont bash others because they dont know what the horse will do.
With private purchases they have a track record. Personally when i do a deal the price is NEVER ANNOUNCED!!! See. I'm a nyer, and nyer's don't rat, no matter what. Its our best trait. And quite frankly if IEAH thinks the horse is worth that much who is anyone to bash them? Some pretty good folks do business with them, Joe Torre and Coach Mike Jarvis even do business with them. And if you look at what their runners have done the last couple of years, with many being purchased at lower end or mid level prices, I would say they are doing pretty damn good.

I am sure he is a nice guy, I was kidding with him and even put the word kidding at the end of the post. But lets be serious that horse will never be a HOY. Look at his record.

[oracle80]

I am sure he is a nice guy, I was kidding with him and even put the word kidding at the end of the post. But lets be serious that horse will never be a HOY. Look at his record.
LOL!! Thats a pretty safe bet Exceller!!! I want none of that action!

[oracle80]

The best horse he ever trained? The guy had Saint Liam and has Silver Train. That horse is running with cheap allowance horses and won a race in TX on a terrible course. Good luck if you bet on him in that race although Dutrow will have him ready. Don't worry they didn't sell you any, if you wait about 8-10 months you can buy him in the 15K claimer at Aqueduct. Kidding.
Its time for soem crow eating here boys and girls!!! Just thought Exceller and Bold Ruler whould have this thread bumped up!!!! Exceller, how does his breeding look now? Looks pretty irrelevant to me and at 500 grand they got a bargain. They could get 2 mill for him off that incredible race!!!

[Storm Cadet]

EX COACH JARVIS PLEASE....as well as EX BOARD MEMBER

BTW Mike Jarvis was given a no show title by IEAH...he did nothing for the company.:mad:

[boldruler]

Its time for soem crow eating here boys and girls!!! Just thought Exceller and Bold Ruler whould have this thread bumped up!!!! Exceller, how does his breeding look now? Looks pretty irrelevant to me and at 500 grand they got a bargain. They could get 2 mill for him off that incredible race!!!

Crow eating, with my money. I am not sure what I said other than that Showing Up would win, and he did. I said it before the race. As usual Oracle had the trifecta, but would give out his pick before the race even though i asked him 3x. Tough loss for Oracles guys, nice win for the Jacksons.

I now have Zero respect for Oracle, since I know he is full of it. If he really hit a triple he wouldn't be bashing Showing Up and saying Kip Deville will destroy him in a rematch. Sounds like a sore loser to me.