8/29 (SAR): Personal Ensign S. (G1)

[robfla]

2nd (5:56) Personal Ensign S. (G1)

1 1/4 Miles | Fillies and Mares | 3 Year Olds And Up Stakes | Purse: $300,000

1 1 Miss Singhsix (IRE) Valdivia J Jr Wolfson Martin D 116 L 10-1
2 2 Rachel Alexandra Borel C H Asmussen Steven M 122 L 2-5
3 3 Persistently Garcia Alan McGaughey III C R 116 L 20-1
4 4 Life At Ten Velazquez J R Pletcher Todd A 120 L 5-2
5 5 Classofsixtythree Castellano J J Contessa Gary C 116 L 20-1

[Indian Charlie]

Zenyatta.

[slotdirt]

That does look like a Zenyatta-like field.

[letswastemoney]

That does look like a Zenyatta-like field.It's a G1. You clearly don't know horse racing.

In all seriousness, the field doesn't look bad. At least we know L@T doesn't belong in claiming races.

[Sightseek]

That does look like a Zenyatta-like field.

Yeah, but while Zenyatta was allegedly going to try new things this year, Rachel is, by running a distance she hasn't yet.

[slotdirt]

Right, so this is basically Rachel's Santa Margherita with Life at Ten playing the role of St. Trinians.

[Antitrust32]

Right, so this is basically Rachel's Santa Margherita with Life at Ten playing the role of St. Trinians.

:tro:

basically

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Bridgejumpers are having a banner year in Grade 1's.

[prudery]

Yeah, but while Zenyatta was allegedly going to try new things this year, Rachel is, by running a distance she hasn't yet.



Rachel tried a lot of new things this year--let's give her credit for the things she did this year over last .

Lose.

Never ran in a G1 until August.

Had races invented and tailored for her .

Did not run against the males she " demolished " last year.--or any males at all

Acquired a " big, new body "--ostensibly from Earl Scheib

Forgot her blinding acceleration at the far turn

Screwed up her lead changes



You Retchelistas sure have some nerve mocking the Zentards all right .

Zenyatta has indeed run in the same crap G1s as last year---boring, unimaginative, but perfect. And yes, she only shipped once .

She has held her form and her condition., and her body also got bigger each year--or didn't anyone notice ??.

Frequent flyer miles, changes of equipment, and your hopes and snark are not going to change Rachel into last year's model .

That said, I fervently hope she wins Sunday and goes to the Classic .

[Indian Charlie]

Rachel tried a lot of new things this year--let's give her credit for the things she did this year over last .

Lose.

Never ran in a G1 until August.

Had races invented and tailored for her .

Did not run against the males she " demolished " last year.--or any males at all

Acquired a " big, new body "--ostensibly from Earl Scheib

Forgot her blinding acceleration at the far turn

Screwed up her lead changes



You Retchelistas sure have some nerve mocking the Zentards all right .

Zenyatta has indeed run in the same crap G1s as last year---boring, unimaginative, but perfect. And yes, she only shipped once .

She has held her form and her condition., and her body also got bigger each year--or didn't anyone notice ??.

Frequent flyer miles, changes of equipment, and your hopes and snark are not going to change Rachel into last year's model .

That said, I fervently hope she wins Sunday and goes to the Classic .

The proper term is Zenyattards, but since you are in that camp, I wouldn't expect you to get that (or anything else) right.

[Sightseek]

Someone is extra touchy today....

[prudery]

The proper term is Zenyattards, but since you are in that camp, I wouldn't expect you to get that (or anything else) right.

I would not expect you to get that both terms are acceptable, dolt --since you are a bombastic Retchelista ....

However I am not a Zenyattard or a Zentard--I am a fan of all good horses .

[prudery]

Someone is extra touchy today....

Not at all ...

[Dahoss]

I agree, you do seem a bit touchy.

[Smooth Operator]

Rachel tried a lot of new things this year--let's give her credit for the things she did this year over last .

Lose.

Never ran in a G1 until August.

Had races invented and tailored for her .

Did not run against the males she " demolished " last year.--or any males at all

Acquired a " big, new body "--ostensibly from Earl Scheib

Forgot her blinding acceleration at the far turn

Screwed up her lead changes



:tro:

[Rileyoriley]

Before this turns into another 10 page Rachel v. Zenyatta thread that I don't wish to read, could anyone give me some info on the 1 and 5 mares? Thanks.:)

[DaTruth]

Before this turns into another 10 page Rachel v. Zenyatta thread that I don't wish to read, could anyone give me some info on the 1 and 5 mares? Thanks.:)

Too late.

[Rileyoriley]

Too late.

I know but it's only 1 page right now.

[GPK]

I thought the race was Sunday the 29th?:confused:

[TouchOfGrey]

I thought the race was Sunday the 29th?:confused:

It is.

[clyde]

I propose a TwoMinutesToToast.

[robfla]

I thought the race was Sunday the 29th?:confused:


who is the clown that put 8/28 as the date???
:eek:

I got it from an email drf sent me.... it was for the two day DD...my bad:zz:

[clyde]

Before this turns into another 10 page Rachel v. Zenyatta thread that I don't wish to read, could anyone give me some info on the 1 and 5 mares? Thanks.:)


You are most welcome.

[clyde]

Not at all ...

May I pinch your nipples?

[Dahoss]

May I pinch your nipples?

:eek:



:wf

[Merlinsky]

Not at all ...May I pinch your nipples?
First of all, ew. Second of all, it's "mother may I.." and third, if you have to ask people...then no.

[clyde]

Well fine then,Lowinsky.


Go pinch Hossy's nipples.







Better yet...go pinch Thebby's nipples.

[RockHardTen1985]

Does anyone think Shug can win this?

[Danzig]

Does anyone think Shug can win this?

he can't run in a distaff race, so no. :D

[Dahoss]

Does anyone think Shug can win this?

Seriously?

[RockHardTen1985]

Seriously?


I just asked....

[Dahoss]

I just asked....

If Life at Ten and Rachel Alexandra both fall down....she has a chance to run second.

[RockHardTen1985]

If Life at Ten and Rachel Alexandra both fall down....she has a chance to run second.

So what about this sceniro.
L@T is going 100% for sure to the front. Is Calvin going to let her go? I dont think he can, he has to go right with her, sit just to the outside. What if they open up 10 early, and run off? I think L@T has been very lucky.... I think Rachel should sit off and blast her, win by 15. But what if Rachel cant get the distance and is softened up? Who is running late?

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Jesus. Just shut up.

[Dahoss]

What's a sceniro?

[DaTruth]

What's a sceniro?

A film scene featuring De Niro.

[RockHardTen1985]

Jesus. Just shut up.

WOMANIZER

[johnny pinwheel]

So what about this sceniro.
L@T is going 100% for sure to the front. Is Calvin going to let her go? I dont think he can, he has to go right with her, sit just to the outside. What if they open up 10 early, and run off? I think L@T has been very lucky.... I think Rachel should sit off and blast her, win by 15. But what if Rachel cant get the distance and is softened up? Who is running late?

is this another one of those dreams you have? i still remember QR by 18 lengths.......lol...... ahead of blame. thanks, i'll have one double with the all button because you just stopped rachel like a broken watch with one of your "lucky dreams".....lol....lol.....shleprock......mush

[Smooth Operator]

This sux, Rock

Would be hilarious to see RA get out-gamed in the lane (again) … but it's against my religion to root for a Pletch.




The 14 second final eighth should be scintillating to watch, tho..................

[Indian Charlie]

This sux, Rock

Would be hilarious to see RA get out-gamed in the lane (again) … but it's against my religion to root for a Pletch.




The 14 second final eighth should be scintillating to watch, tho..................

As opposed to a 29 second opening quarter.

[knickslions2]

Life at Ten is a lock. Easiest money all year.

[AlreadyHome]

Life at Ten is a lock. Easiest money all year.

I SAY THIS ALSO L@T EASYYY $$$$$

ZENYATTA BEST HORSE ON THE PLANET!!!!!!!!! :baby::baby::baby:

[King Glorious]

I like Life at Ten to pull the upset.

[Merlinsky]

http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/racing-news/2010/August/28/Ragozin-Insider-Personal-Ensign.aspx

Thoroughbred Times just posted this analysis of the Ragozin speed figures for the Personal Ensign. Not just RA and Life at Ten, but all the horses on a handy dandy chart. No surprise they say Rachel's numbers are much faster. Didn't realize the Delaware figure for Life at Ten was an 8. I realize things can be visually appealing and trick you, but if Rachel doesn't get it done I certainly enjoy LAT a lot. She's fun to watch. I just want to see the RA of old. That's the story I'm rooting for the most.

What Thoro-Graph numbers are we seeing for this group? What have RA and LAT been pulling? And while I'm thinking about it, how big is LAT physically?

[DaTruth]

Life At Ten will be very tough for RA to beat, especially at 10 furlongs. Life At Ten might be the best older mare in training, so RA definitely has her work cut out for her.

[CSC]

Wolfson's horses ran predictably today away from Calder/GP, otherwise I really would love to take a shot with Miss Singhsix. If the top 2 hook up, it could set it up for her, if only I could be as confident in Wolfson's stuff in NY.

[Indian Charlie]

Zenyatta.

[Dahoss]

Who has worse comebacks....CSC1985 or Prostate Operator?

[CSC]

Zenyatta.

I get it now, this is your Classic pick, that must be why you keep bringing her up. Finally a pick on record, congrats on taking a big step forward.

[CSC]

Who has worse comebacks....CSC1985 or Prostate Operator?

You?

BTW you can't be Indian Charlie also? With your penchant for twin aliases? I can't tell at times.

[Indian Charlie]

CSC1985 in a landslide!!

[CSC]

Guano I & II. Nice to have them appearing at the same time. :rolleyes:

[Indian Charlie]

Guano I & II. Nice to have them appearing at the same time. :rolleyes:

At least guano is a useful product, used to fertilize crops, to feed people.

You just use up oxygen and talk gibberish.

[Dahoss]

You?

BTW you can't be Indian Charlie also? With your penchant for twin aliases? I can't tell at times.

Considering how the TFM openly mocks what an awful opinion you have ....it's pretty funny to see you regurgitating his tired lines. Not as funny as seeing you try and use big words, but almost.

[CSC]

At least guano is a useful product, used to fertilize crops, to feed people.

You just use up oxygen and talk gibberish.

I am pleased you actually took the time to look it up, what did you use wiki?

Let's face it you love the term, you probably can't wait to affectionately call your co-worker Guano tommorow...Eh Guano?

[CSC]

Considering how the TFM openly mocks what an awful opinion you have ....it's pretty funny to see you regurgitating his tired lines. Not as funny as seeing you try and use big words, but almost.

I don't concern myself with him like you guys do, he has his opinions just like others here. No one has been infallible, so I don't know why you guys obsess over him. Infact I rarely talk to FM, why would I care?

[Dahoss]

I don't concern myself with him like you guys do, he has his opinions just like others here. No one has been infallible, so I don't know why you guys obsess over him. Infact I rarely talk to FM, why would I care?

Really miss you over at PA...

[the_fat_man]

I don't concern myself with him like you guys do, he has his opinions just like others here. No one has been infallible, so I don't know why you guys obsess over him. Infact I rarely talk to FM, why would I care?

YAWN

IC and DaHoss are boring. Why do you feel the need to indulge them? You feed their need for attention.

BTW, a $39 winner, a $34 winner and a cold $61 exacta this week. And got nosed out of a 10:1 at SAR yesterday.

Still waiting for DaHoss to come up with his TEN > $30 winners over the past year or so. Notice how he's STFU when it comes to that. Of course, he's real good at those 5:1 pick3/4's. :rolleyes: And, ****ing with the women over at PA. Or beating up on halfwits in handicapping contests. Come on, DaHoss, where are your BOMBS? :rolleyes:

Oh, and, btw, if you're such a prolific winner, why is it that you were getting your PP's from RH10 for the past year or so? And, apparently, took a hissy fit when he cut you off? ha ha ha

PP's too expensive for a winner like you, DaHoss?:rolleyes::rolleyes:

you're done.

[CSC]

Really miss you over at PA...

I miss the sheep over there, however quite frankly PA is an idiot, please give him my regards. He can't can't handle people with a real opinion so he picks and chooses who can converse over there. A real man. :rolleyes:

[Dahoss]

I knew I could draw him out of his dungeon.

Shockingly, your post is full of lies, which is why you should always consider the source.

I'd be interested in you compiling your ROI of posted plays. I mean, everytime you pick a $30 horse you talk about it for weeks on end (act like you've picked a winner before). Yet there is never any mention of the 30 or 40 losers you post before that. Wonder why.

BTW, I ran out of toilet paper earlier, can you print out a few fat charts for me?

You can try and diminish my handicapping all you want. I think it speaks for itself. but we both know you are absolutely threatened by the fact I am better (by a lot), which is why I seem to get a lot of your misguided bluster.

[the_fat_man]

I miss the sheep over there, however quite frankly PA is an idiot, please give him my regards. He can't can't handle people with a real opinion so he picks and chooses who can converse over there. A real man. :rolleyes:

Exactly. When I was still over there and we were having those Beyer debates, I offered him the opportunity to go head to head with me, for some CASH. He'd play the highest Beyer in the race, and I'd wing it. He lacked the NUTS for this. Of course, this was during a period where I'd PM him with all the BOMBS I was picking over at another forum. Mike **** his pants at the thought.:rolleyes:

After he banned me, he starts a Beyer Basher competition, where he picks the highest Beyers for a card, ahead of time, and challenges anyone to take him on. Of course he beat some r etards over there but even JonnieLu kicked his ass. ha ha ha
JonnieLu, man.

Then he STFU about that **** as well.

Any wonder why "Mike the EUNUCH" suits him?

[Dahoss]

Any wonder why The Closeted Man suits you?

[Coach Pants]

Mike's balls must be in TFM's mouth. So technically not a eunuch.

[CSC]

This may sound blunt but it's true; however if the knee benders over there knew just how a site should be run thanks to Mr. Byk, I doubt PA would exist. BUT even I wouldn't want some of the airheads that post over there to invade this forum.

[RockHardTen1985]

Omg Queen Marthas Performance Makes Me Want To Puke, Thinking About Everything I Have Into Rachel At 2-5

[Dahoss]

Me, me, me

[RockHardTen1985]

This may sound blunt but it's true; however if the knee benders over there knew just how a site should be run thanks to Mr. Byk, I doubt PA would exist. BUT even I wouldn't want some of the airheads that post over there to invade this forum.


I have been exchanging emails with there leader for about a week now. The guy is a clown and clueless, he darts me for NO REASSON AT ALL. Then in his emails to me, he is actually bringing up other posters and asking me questions about them, basicley telling me to spill it and I can return.

[brockguy]

69-1 the winner was on Betfair:eek:

[ateamstupid]

I guess it'll be the Distaff. She's a terrific horse and being limited to brilliance at nine furlongs is no shame.

[CSC]

I have been exchanging emails with there leader for about a week now. The guy is a clown and clueless, he darts me for NO REASSON AT ALL. Then in his emails to me, he is actually bringing up other posters and asking me questions about them, basicley telling me to spill it and I can return.

I'd love to hear his excuses today, they should be very entertaining, let me know.

[the_fat_man]

I have been exchanging emails with there leader for about a week now. The guy is a clown and clueless, he darts me for NO REASSON AT ALL. Then in his emails to me, he is actually bringing up other posters and asking me questions about them, basicley telling me to spill it and I can return.

YUP. That's MIKE THE EUNUCH for you. :rolleyes:

[the_fat_man]

I'd love to hear his excuses today, he should be very entertaining tonite, let me know.

It'll ALL be about who Z is DUCKING, trust me. :rolleyes:

[The Indomitable DrugS]

I guess it'll be the Distaff. She's a terrific horse and being limited to brilliance at nine furlongs is no shame.

The race doesn't prove she has distance limitations.

Life At Ten went on a suicide mission.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

I'd love to hear his excuses today, they should be very entertaining, let me know.

Excuses for your pick - the Marty Wolfson horse who got the trip of a lifetime off of a mind-boggling pace battle and still couldn't hit the board?

[Alan07]

Does Andy put the dunce cap on now?

[the_fat_man]

I guess it'll be the Distaff. She's a terrific horse and being limited to brilliance at nine furlongs is no shame.

I think we need to put the 10F limitation thing to rest. This is to obscure the real issues. She can clearly get 10F. She just can't do it with pressure, setting a reasonable pace, and on, what appears to be, a fair track. I mean, come on, Persistently?

[Danzig]

congrats to shug, he ought to be thrilled right now.

[the_fat_man]

- the Marty Wolfson horse who got the trip of a lifetime off of a mind-boggling pace battle and still couldn't hit the board?

That's the female Ice Box. She needs everything to collapse to win a race.

[pba1817]

The race doesn't prove she has distance limitations.

Life At Ten went on a suicide mission.

And Rachel was IN FRONT of the suicide mission horse...

[RockHardTen1985]

The race doesn't prove she has distance limitations.

Life At Ten went on a suicide mission.


Dude wake up. Your not the know all end all. Is there such a thing called class anymore? She should beat that Shug horse. The fractions were not that hot and she got gunned down by the definition of a plodder. Keep making excuses though. Ateam is right go crush the Beldame and win the Ladies BC race. Nothing wrong with that.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

And Rachel was IN FRONT of the suicide mission horse...

I know - just as Xtra Heat was in front of the suicide mission Harmony Lodge in the Test.

[CSC]

It'll ALL be about who Z is DUCKING, trust me. :rolleyes:

The classic is out, I can't see them throwing her in at 1 1/4 again, the pace scenario will be alot more challenging at CD.

[dagolfer33]

I just heard all the Z haters breathe a collective sigh of relief. Now we will never get to see the beatdown....ah...I mean the matchup in the classic.

[ateamstupid]

The race doesn't prove she has distance limitations.

Life At Ten went on a suicide mission.

The splits were not quick and she lost to a horse with an 85 Beyer top. Let's say it's not stamina that limits her, she's still going to lose top races at 10 furlongs because she's unable to lay off the lead far enough where she won't be gassed by the last 1/8 if they go quick early.

[RockHardTen1985]

I just heard all the Z haters breathe a collective sigh of relief. Now we will never get to see the beatdown....ah...I mean the matchup in the classic.


Z's connections are pitiful. She wins this race by, hmmm 15 if she comes.

[the_fat_man]

The classic is out, I can't see them throwing her in at 1 1/4 again, the pace scenario will be alot more challenging at CD.

What are you delusional? When was the CLASSIC ever IN? Wasn't it clear she was done when Little Z bounced her? It was the SPIN by the BEYERITES, who desperately needed her to return to some semblance of last year's form, especially after their other darling, QR, got beat, that kept that CLASSIC talk for her going. She NEVER had a shot in the Classic.

[pba1817]

I know - just as Xtra Heat was in front of the suicide mission Harmony Lodge in the Test.

WTF does that have anything to do here? The Test is a 7f sprint, not a 1 1/4.

[CSC]

Excuses for your pick - the Marty Wolfson horse who got the trip of a lifetime off of a mind-boggling pace battle and still couldn't hit the board?

Yeah, I had the right idea but I went against my own wisdom of betting Wolfson horses away from Florida. Atleast I put my money inline with my opinions, I thought they were overbet and overrated and I should have bet the all button to win other than the 2 favs, that was my mistake. What can I say, I didn't think the Phipps horse could jump up that much, but I did give her a 2nd look and I still couldn't make a case for her.

[CSC]

What are you delusional? When was the CLASSIC ever IN? Wasn't it clear she was done when Little Z bounced her? It was the SPIN by the BEYERITES, who desperately needed her to return to some semblance of last year's form, especially after their other darling, QR, got beat, that kept that CLASSIC talk for her going. She NEVER had a shot in the Classic.

This is Derbytrial isn't it? She will be heading for the classic until Jess invents a palatable excuse not to.

[King Glorious]

She has none of the accelleration she used to have. It wasn't the 10f that got her beat. It's that she's taken a couple of steps back. If this race had been 9f, she might have won it but it wouldn't have been anything like what we saw from her last year. Running like this, she wouldn't win the Distaff. She's a shadow of her former self. They went 1:12.02 and 1:37.54 That's hardly suicidal. Even going that slow, she had nothing left. The final was 2:04.49 so it took her over 27 seconds for her final quarter. They actually made Afleet Express look like he was flying.

[CSC]

Z's connections are pitiful. She wins this race by, hmmm 15 if she comes.

She wins by a measured head not 15, you should know this by now, she runs down to her competition. She's too nice, she doesn't want to embaress either filly by being lumped in with St. Trinians...oh wrong horse she is actually just above average, anyway you get the idea.

[dagolfer33]

Z's connections are pitiful. She wins this race by, hmmm 15 if she comes.
F the connections of both horses, to me the connections are a wash.

[10 pnt move up]

The Beyer just came back, looks like 111. See SHE never can run slow.

Hey we found a winner who can run a slower race than Richards Kid, who knew.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

The splits were not quick and she lost to a horse with an 85 Beyer top.


The pace - at the six furlong call - was 27 full points faster than the final time.

So - let's get very conservative and say Persistantly just ran to her 85 Beyer last time out (which came with a 3wide first turn and 5 wide 2nd turn trip - in a race with a lot less pace to set her up)

That would make the pace figure for six furlongs a 112... and you don't get any more conservative than that... the number is probably a lot higher.

When you run a 112 pace figure - with intense head-to-head pressure from the start - you're going to stop at some point.

Assuming you want to go with a 112-85 for this race. That means Life At Ten ran a pace figure of 111 and a final figure of in the mid 70's.

This pace figure is most likely about a 120-to-123 and Persistantly's winning Beyer is about a 92-to-95.

[RockHardTen1985]

The pace - at the six furlong call - was 27 full points faster than the final time.

So - let's get very conservative and say Persistantly just ran to her 85 Beyer last time out (which came with a 3wide first turn and 5 wide 2nd turn trip - in a race with a lot less pace to set her up)

That would make the pace figure for six furlongs a 112... and you don't get any more conservative than that... the number is probably a lot higher.

When you run a 112 pace figure - with intense head-to-head pressure from the start - you're going to stop at some point.

Assuming you want to go with a 112-85 for this race. That means Life At Ten ran a pace figure of 111 and a final figure of in the mid 70's.

This pace figure is most likely about a 120-to-123 and Persistantly's winning Beyer is about a 92-to-95.


And that 92 is the stuff champions are made of.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

WTF does that have anything to do here? The Test is a 7f sprint, not a 1 1/4.

It's called trip handicapping. The people here who gave Admiral Alex a shot to finish in the top half of the field in the Travers ought to look into it.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

And that 92 is the stuff champions are made of.

Persistantly did not run the same pace figure RA and Life At Ten did - she was back in another county.

[ateamstupid]

The pace - at the six furlong call - was 27 full points faster than the final time.

So - let's get very conservative and say Persistantly just ran to her 85 Beyer last time out (which came with a 3wide first turn and 5 wide 2nd turn trip - in a race with a lot less pace to set her up)

That would make the pace figure for six furlongs a 112... and you don't get any more conservative than that... the number is probably a lot higher.

When you run a 112 pace figure - with intense head-to-head pressure from the start - you're going to stop at some point.

Assuming you want to go with a 112-85 for this race. That means Life At Ten ran a pace figure of 111 and a final figure of in the mid 70's.

This pace figure is most likely about a 120-to-123 and Persistantly's winning Beyer is about a 92-to-95.

The fact that she crawled home doesn't mean it was a fast pace relative to the speed of the track. And your pace figure dissertation doesn't explain why she's likely to ever get 10 furlongs in a top class race.

[10 pnt move up]

Little confused why Borel felt the need to send no matter what. So he guns against an inferior speed horse, if that horse goes he has no choice once committing, if he sits back and feels they are going too slow then he can send. Not sure that was a good tactic.

Still you craaaaaaaaaaaaaawl home like that you should win against the likes of persistently.

[RockHardTen1985]

Persistantly did not run the same pace figure RA and Life At Ten did - she was back in another county.

I just crushed the 11th, Im going to dinner. I dont even care. Rachel is really good and has distance trouble. Even the ICE COLD WIZZARD called it out. Just because you or Andy or anyone says no, does not mean its not true. Does class not matter anymore? She cant hold off that horse? I dont care if she went 46-109 with the clear lead in stretch she is supposed to win, AND SHE COULD NOT.

[Arletta]

Little confused why Borel felt the need to send no matter what. So he guns against an inferior speed horse, if that horse goes he has no choice once committing, if he sits back and feels they are going too slow then he can send. Not sure that was a good tactic.

Still you craaaaaaaaaaaaaawl home like that you should win against the likes of persistently.

Perhaps those were his instructions.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Little confused why Borel felt the need to send no matter what. So he guns against an inferior speed horse, if that horse goes he has no choice once committing, if he sits back and feels they are going too slow then he can send. Not sure that was a good tactic.

It's never the jockey on the inside's fault in a speed duel - it's always the jockey on the outside's fault.

This is like common sense 101.

Life At Ten went on a suicide mission - she was OPEN LENGTHS better than Persistantly today ... but she gets 3rd money for it ... and was off the tv screen at the finish.

[10 pnt move up]

It's never the jockey on the inside's fault in a speed duel - it's always the jockey on the outside's fault.

This is like common sense 101.

Life At Ten went on a suicide mission - she was OPEN LENGTHS better than Persistantly today ... but she gets 3rd money for it ... and was off the tv screen at the finish.

So what your saying is that if a speed horse like LIT is in the race, outside of RA she never could take back, I find that a bit hard to believe.

She still should have won but just don't think it was a very good ride.

Here I am making excuses for the horse.....of all people.

[10 pnt move up]

So Doug do you think the classic this year will have a slower pace? What do you make of RA's chances in that race?

[Danzig]

What are you delusional? When was the CLASSIC ever IN? Wasn't it clear she was done when Little Z bounced her? It was the SPIN by the BEYERITES, who desperately needed her to return to some semblance of last year's form, especially after their other darling, QR, got beat, that kept that CLASSIC talk for her going. She NEVER had a shot in the Classic.


why do you say that? rachel had a hell of a campaign last year, hoy worthy. any horse would have been hard pressed to repeat such a year. whatever she does this year has nothing to do with last year. if the saints don't repeat, do they lose last years super bowl? i haven't understood this reasoning from anyone at all this year. rachel did what she did, an unreal 3 yo campaign for a filly-it doesn't require backing up. i thought you considered yourself a pro at this game? you sound like a rank amateur when you start this line.

it's a shame, i think they have completely messed up with rachel this year.

[Danzig]

So Doug do you think the classic this year will have a slower pace? What do you make of RA's chances in that race?

i doubt she goes.

[RockHardTen1985]

The only real shame is Z's connections. Rachels know she is not the same and they have really just run her accordingly. Look at the horse who tested her at Monmouth last time, look what she did today. Some people came on here saying she was actually good and moved up on dirt, yes she proved it today. The shame is this... Z would have not only won, but cruised in every race Rachel has been in this year. Dont get me wrong Rachel is HOY last year and like the article on DRF says nothing changes that, but she is not the same filly and not nearly as good as Z.

[10 pnt move up]

i doubt she goes.

why, nothing to lose now, handicap older mare is over.

[Dahoss]

Mike Smith

[CSC]

It's never the jockey on the inside's fault in a speed duel - it's always the jockey on the outside's fault.

This is like common sense 101.

Life At Ten went on a suicide mission - she was OPEN LENGTHS better than Persistantly today ... but she gets 3rd money for it ... and was off the tv screen at the finish.

Was Siphon open lengths better than Dare And Go in the Pacific Classic? Or did Bailey phuck up by keeping tabs on Siphon, or was it really that dip$hit Nakatani on Dramatic Gold for messing with Cigar? To me that's what makes horseracing, no need for explanations or excuses, good horses should be able to overcome crap at times.

[fpsoxfan]

It's never the jockey on the inside's fault in a speed duel - it's always the jockey on the outside's fault.

This is like common sense 101.

Life At Ten went on a suicide mission - she was OPEN LENGTHS better than Persistantly today ... but she gets 3rd money for it ... and was off the tv screen at the finish.

Drugs..you are trying to talk common sense with a freaking clown. For years, especially this past year, I come on to read mainly. I've read RHT's post and his dream bets. He's the most annoying poster I've ever seen on here, and that's saying a lot. I've been on this thing since 2006 and have never seen anyone post a 100WPS bet on a maiden claiming turf race. So, the bottom line don't waste your time trying to talk sense into him.

[Danzig]

why, nothing to lose now, handicap older mare is over.

because, if she can't win at 10f today, i don't think she can in nov. i'd like to see her run, i've got tickets...i just think she'd be better suited at 1 1/8. too bad the classic wasn't on dirt last year.

[Dahoss]

Drugs..you are trying to talk common sense with a freaking clown. For years, especially this past year, I come on to read mainly. I've read RHT's post and his dream bets. He's the most annoying poster I've ever seen on here, and that's saying a lot. I've been on this thing since 2006 and have never seen anyone post a 100WPS bet on a maiden claiming turf race. So, the bottom line don't waste your time trying to talk sense into him.

He does have quite the bankroll doesn't he?

[The Indomitable DrugS]

So Doug do you think the classic this year will have a slower pace? What do you make of RA's chances in that race?

In general,

I liked both RA and Life at Ten's races today. I'm a huge fan of both performances...especially Life At Ten's big race today.

Persistantly is the kind of horse you live to bet against.

The problems is - RA and LIT have the nice back forms and Persistantly doesn't... so the race won't offer the kind of big betting value down the line that it should.

As for the Classic - I think RA's chances were helped significantly today .. however, I doubt she goes in the race now.

The reason why her chances were bettered so much today is because 1.) Her performance was no worse than any of her previous races this year and 2.) it's now a 100% lock that no one would challenge her on the lead in the BC Classic off of this race. They will view her as a horse who can't see out 10 furlongs - but if they press her - they know they will pay a gigantic price for it. So ... she basically won the right to a cozy uncontested lead in the race today.

[Rileyoriley]

congrats to shug, he ought to be thrilled right now.

And the Phipps and their homebred.:tro:

[Seattleallstar]

Rachel showed alot in defeat. This race reminds me when Seattle Slew lost to Exceller, after Slew fought Affirmed and put him away only to have Exceller pick up the pieces to get Slew in the end.

[10 pnt move up]

Rachel showed alot in defeat. This race reminds me when Seattle Slew lost to Exceller, after Slew fought Affirmed and put him away only to have Exceller pick up the pieces to get Slew in the end.

Most people already used that in her first race back..........

the rest that hadn't certainly used that line after the CD race.

[Dahoss]

I have been exchanging emails with there leader for about a week now. The guy is a clown and clueless, he darts me for NO REASSON AT ALL. Then in his emails to me, he is actually bringing up other posters and asking me questions about them, basicley telling me to spill it and I can return.

I know this is going to come as a shock to everyone....but this is a total lie.

Hard to believe the guy that built an OTB in his backyard is lying, but he is.

[Coach Pants]

Guess I'll have to watch the race.

Whoopity-doo another highly overrated horse lost.

If only the other one would lose so the madness would stop.

[CSC]

I know this is going to come as a shock to everyone....but this is a total lie.

Hard to believe the guy that built an OTB in his backyard is lying, but he is.

Not from my experience, the guy seemed like an arrogant SOB when we exchanged PM's with no tolerance for free speech whatsoever. Give him my regards DH, and tell him I'm smiling.

[dagolfer33]

Z's connections are pitiful. She wins this race by, hmmm 15 if she comes.
F the connections of both horses, to me the connections are a wash.
It's all about the horses and what they do on the track.

[Dahoss]

Not from my experience, the guy seemed like an arrogant SOB when we exchanged PM's with no tolerance for free speech whatsoever. Give him my regards DH, and tell him I'm smiling.

So much for not wanting to discuss it huh?

I've seen their entire email exchange. PG is lying. Like I said, I'm sure everyone that is familiar with his history is shocked by this.

[RockHardTen1985]

I know this is going to come as a shock to everyone....but this is a total lie.

Hard to believe the guy that built an OTB in his backyard is lying, but he is.


Are you PA?

[CSC]

So much for not wanting to discuss it huh?

I've seen their entire email exchange. PG is lying. Like I said, I'm sure everyone that is familiar with his history is shocked by this.

Seriously I don't know why you defend the guy? He has terrible opinions, he plays by hyprocritical rules, he is a censor, a bully, and if you don't bow down to him, he bans you. I don't know he must have a good thing going over there, to me he's a slime bag that I would never trust in a million years.

[RockHardTen1985]

Seriously I don't know why you defend the guy? He has terrible opinions, he plays by hyprocritical rules, he is a censor, a bully, and if you don't bow down to him, he bans you. I don't know he must have a good thing going over there, to me he's a slime bag that I would never trust in a million years.


LOL, dosent it say enough that he saw the email exchange? PA HAS BEEN ASKING ME **** ABOUT HIM FOR 2 WEEKS, Why the hell would I lie. I never even said Hoss name, HE BROUGHT HIMSELF INTO IT. Because he has nothing better to do.

[RockHardTen1985]

So much for not wanting to discuss it huh?

I've seen their entire email exchange. PG is lying. Like I said, I'm sure everyone that is familiar with his history is shocked by this.


And like I said 2 weeks ago, you have a new beef every week. On this site, on PA or in real life.... So keep up the good work champ.

[CSC]

LOL, dosent it say enough that he saw the email exchange? PA HAS BEEN ASKING ME **** ABOUT HIM FOR 2 WEEKS, Why the hell would I lie. I never even said Hoss name, HE BROUGHT HIMSELF INTO IT. Because he has nothing better to do.

Anyone who shares a private email on a public forum is...well you fill in the blanks.

[RockHardTen1985]

Anyone who shares a private email on a public forum is...well you fill in the blanks.


Im done with this, its been a great weekend of racing. I made a comment, ANYONE CAN GO BACK AND LOOK. I never once brought DAHOSS INTO IT. He brought himself into it.

[Dahoss]

Seriously I don't know why you defend the guy? He has terrible opinions, he plays by hyprocritical rules, he is a censor, a bully, and if you don't bow down to him, he bans you. I don't know he must have a good thing going over there, to me he's a slime bag that I would never trust in a million years.

Seriously, who cares about your opinion?

[the_fat_man]

Im done with this, its been a great weekend of racing. I made a comment, ANYONE CAN GO BACK AND LOOK. I never once brought DAHOSS INTO IT. He brought himself into it.

Look where?

[Dahoss]

Anyone who shares a private email on a public forum is...well you fill in the blanks.

It wasn't in a public forum. I know it hurts that he banned you, but get over it already.

[RockHardTen1985]

Look where?


In the thread all I said was he is asking me questions about another poster and this lifeless, nothing better to do on Sunday, POS has totally gone off the wall and brought himself into it. I never said his name, but he will fight it to the end now. 3 pms from him already... Threatening me, telling me he will get the last laugh, its insane. I just had a huge day and I have to deal with him.

[Dahoss]

In the thread all I said was he is asking me questions about another poster and this lifeless, nothing better to do on Sunday, POS has totally gone off the wall and brought himself into it. I never said his name, but he will fight it to the end now. 3 pms from him already... Threatening me, telling me he will get the last laugh, its insane. I just had a huge day and I have to deal with him.

Why do you insist on lying? What do you get from it?

[Smooth Operator]

because, if she can't win at 10f today, i don't think she can in nov. i'd like to see her run, i've got tickets...i just think she'd be better suited at 1 1/8. too bad the classic wasn't on dirt last year.

Oh brother…


Um, Danzig, she was OVERRATED by many last year.

She would've gotten CREAMED in the BCC, regardless of venue…

[the_fat_man]

In the thread all I said was he is asking me questions about another poster and this lifeless, nothing better to do on Sunday, POS has totally gone off the wall and brought himself into it. I never said his name, but he will fight it to the end now. 3 pms from him already... Threatening me, telling me he will get the last laugh, its insane. I just had a huge day and I have to deal with him.

I don't understand why anyone interacts with him. He's clearly unbalanced, given his actions here and on PA. Nothing more to say.

[CSC]

It wasn't in a public forum. I know it hurts that he banned you, but get over it already.

It only hurts that I can't be over there right now, for obvious reasons. Actually I am quite proud to be banned from that site, it only confirms to me that my nose never turned brown and my lips don't smell of jockey's.

[Dahoss]

Thank god the voice of reason, The Fat Man chimed in. If anyone would know about being unbalanced, it's certainly him.

Must be over (finally) the lashing Coach gave him earlier.

[Patrick333]

In the thread all I said was he is asking me questions about another poster and this lifeless, nothing better to do on Sunday, POS has totally gone off the wall and brought himself into it. I never said his name, but he will fight it to the end now. 3 pms from him already... Threatening me, telling me he will get the last laugh, its insane. I just had a huge day and I have to deal with him.

You don't have to deal with him. Just ignore him. It's really pretty simple. Glad to hear you had a good day.

[Dahoss]

It only hurts that I can't be over there right now, for obvious reasons. Actually I am quite proud to be banned from that site, it only confirms to me that my nose never turned brown and my lips don't smell of jockey's.

No, your lips smell like a bike seat. To each his own, but that's nasty man.

[Duvalier]

Pace Advantage is lame

[Patrick333]

Anybody back on subject? When RA turned for home I thought she was home free. I guess the 1 1/4 got her today.

[Sightseek]

If we're still talking about racing -- wasn't this Shug/Phipps's first Grade 1 win in several years?

[KirisClown]

If we're still talking about racing -- wasn't this Shug/Phipps's first Grade 1 win in several years?

Not sure, but Pine Island might have been the last one..

Sorry to see RA lose, but if she had to.. It was great to see a grand daughter of Heavenly Prize win..

[ateamstupid]

Sorry to see RA lose, but if she had to.. It was great to see a grand daughter of Heavenly Prize win..

Way too levelheaded for this thread.

[Dahoss]

Not sure, but Pine Island might have been the last one..

Sorry to see RA lose, but if she had to.. It was great to see a grand daughter of Heavenly Prize win..

I think Heavenly Prize had a daughter run at Monmouth today. Shug actually ran two babies going 5.5 furlongs at Monmouth today.

[Smooth Operator]

Hilarious to see that P was sired by a sprinter which apparently hasn't produced any other classic distance winners.

[Sightseek]

Not sure, but Pine Island might have been the last one..

Sorry to see RA lose, but if she had to.. It was great to see a grand daughter of Heavenly Prize win..

Thanks, I was thinking it might be her.

[Port Conway Lane]

Carriage Trail and Dancing Forever in '08

[KirisClown]

I think Heavenly Prize had a daughter run at Monmouth today. Shug actually ran two babies going 5.5 furlongs at Monmouth today.

I remember a time when McGaughey/Phipps were a good bet first time out...

[KirisClown]

Carriage Trail and Dancing Forever in '08

I completely forgot about Dancing Forever's Manhattan..

[reese]

Hilarious to see that P was sired by a sprinter which apparently hasn't produced any other classic distance winners.

In breeding parlance, the dam side (bottom) produces stamina. Persistently's first dam sires' are Deputy Minister, Seeking the Gold, Nijinsky, Riva Ridge. Looks like Smoke Glacken ...the sire...donated a nice turn of foot.

[Danzig]

Oh brother…


Um, Danzig, she was OVERRATED by many last year.

She would've gotten CREAMED in the BCC, regardless of venue…

then you're another who sounds clueless when discussing rachel and her campaign last year. it was a true rarity. i get you prefer zenyatta, but rachel had a fabulous year last year. sorry. you're letting personal preference and bias cloud your judgement. any other year, zenyatta wins hoy. but last year wasn't any other year.

[Danzig]

If we're still talking about racing -- wasn't this Shug/Phipps's first Grade 1 win in several years?

pine island still smarts. love to see a phipps homebred do well, i always root for them and any with a claiborne connections as well. i'm still kicking myself for not putting a couple down on persistently. shug and denny had to be over the moon about winning the personal ensign with her today. hated to see rachel lose, but it was a good win for them.

[DerbyCat]

One of the first things I learned on this site was "Shug-Phipps is $$$ in big races". I guess this was big enough :$:

Thank you to Danzig for being a rare voice of reason and "horse sense" :tro:

Seriously guys? Seriously? Take it to Esoteric if you want to act like kindergartners :baby:

[clyde]

Yet another race in which,had she been in it, ZenYadda would have waxed the field.

[Coach Pants]

Yet another race in which,had she been in it, ZenYadda would have waxed the field.
She'd win by maybe a half-length.

She could run in a 4 claimer at Ellis and give the fans a heart attack.

[clyde]

She does this purposefully.



The consumate entertainer.

[DaTruth]

She does this purposefully.



The consumate entertainer.

Nah, the entertainment part is the paddock prancing. She is all business when it is time to face the likes of Anaabaa's Creation.

[clyde]

But isn't that a goat?

[Smooth Operator]

then you're another who sounds clueless when discussing rachel and her campaign last year. it was a true rarity. i get you prefer zenyatta, but rachel had a fabulous year last year. sorry. you're letting personal preference and bias cloud your judgement. any other year, zenyatta wins hoy. but last year wasn't any other year.

:rolleyes:


RA basically competed against glorified mules in '09...

[cmorioles]

95 Beyer for now.

[Danzig]

:rolleyes:


RA basically competed against glorified mules in '09...

if you question rachels, then you must automatically question zenyattas competition, as she faced some of those same 'mules' in the classic. oh, but you don't want to consider that side of the argument, do you? but, keep worrying about '09, which is in the books. i'll keep looking forward to what's next-blame in the jcgc, qr in the woodward.

[King Glorious]

then you're another who sounds clueless when discussing rachel and her campaign last year. it was a true rarity. i get you prefer zenyatta, but rachel had a fabulous year last year. sorry. you're letting personal preference and bias cloud your judgement. any other year, zenyatta wins hoy. but last year wasn't any other year.

It was a rarity and it was historic and it was fabulous. But how good was it? I feel like too much is made of the names on the races and the sexes of the horses she beat (in the case of the Woodward, the sexes and ages). She held off Mine that Bird and he's not won a race since and has one win in nearly two years. She beat Macho Again and Bullsbay but then every 3yo with a pulse beat them last year and beat them worse than she did. She was absolutely dominant against Summer Bird and that, for my money, was her top performance and the race that told me she was a really good one. I say we make too much out of the ages and sexes thing because we should be judging them by the quality of the horses beaten, not the age or sex. Take Serena's Song. She rarely gets mentioned but she beat 3yo males twice and even though she didn't beat older males, she did beat older Heavenly Prize and Lakeway in the Beldame. They were females but I'd take them over Macho Again and Bullsbay as tougher competition. Winning Colors beat a field of males that was probably 20x tougher in the Derby than Rachel did in the Preakness. One of them won the Cigar against older and another ran second in the BC Classic. She also beat them in the SA Derby. Instead of facing older males later, she was losing twice (by 3/4 length and then by a nose) to Personal Ensign. So Rachel was historic for beating Macho Again by a nose and Winning Colors is an afterthought for losing to Personal Ensign by one. Lost among all of the talk is how close we came to never seeing Rachel do any of this stuff. If she isn't sold to Jackson before the Preakness, her previous owner didn't want to run her against males. Would that mean that she would have somehow been less talented? Of course not. We were just lucky that she was put into the hands of someone that wanted to test her. If Winning Colors or Serena's Song weren't trained by Lukas, we may not have ever gotten a chance to see how they fared against the boys but it wouldn't mean they were any less talented than they were. A lot of what horses accomplish is not always solely based on how good they are but also on opportunity and timing. Rachel got lucky in that of the horses generally considered the top 5-6 3yos last year (Quality Road, Blame, Old Fashioned, The Pamplemousse, I Want Revenge, and Summer Bird), she only had to face one of them. None of that's her fault and of course she still had to go out and win the races and she proved herself as a top class horse by doing so and she earned HOY. But please, consider the quality of the competition faced more than the age and sex when talking about her season as one of the all-time greatest.

[Smooth Operator]

if you question rachels, then you must automatically question zenyattas competition, as she faced some of those same 'mules' in the classic. oh, but you don't want to consider that side of the argument, do you? but, keep worrying about '09, which is in the books.

:rolleyes:


Overall, the field Z faced in the BCC was light-years ahead of anything RA lined up against last year.



i'll keep looking forward to what's next-blame in the jcgc, qr in the woodward.

Me too ... 19

[Danzig]

:rolleyes:


Overall, the field Z faced in the BCC was light-years ahead of anything RA lined up against last year.





Me too ... 19


lol light years?

no it wasn't. they were comparable fields. you wanting the classic to be tougher, a higher standard, doesn't make it so.

and yeah, i hope zenyatta ties pepper's pride. no one wants the record to be held exclusively by a horse that only raced in new mexico.

[Danzig]

In a statement, Jess Jackson, co-owner of Rachel Alexandra, said: “We are disappointed in the result, as we are sure her countless fans are, but we are certainly not disappointed in her. She is still a superstar in our hearts and minds. The old sports adage applies ... on any given Sunday, anything can happen.”

Her trainer Steve Asmussen, said he and Jackson would evaluate Rachel Alexandra's condition before making a decision on where she would race next.

"We want to evaluate who we are and who she is and where she’s at. We’re just worried about her well-being,” he said somewhat cryptically.



i've got a bad feeling about her future racing career. i hope today wasn't her last hurrah.

[dagolfer33]

After chewing on it several hours, I think considering everything that happened this year and last year, they should still go to the BCC. I dont think she will win, but I think she should have a chance to take down Zenyatta.

[Smooth Operator]

lol light years?

no it wasn't. they were comparable fields. you wanting the classic to be tougher, a higher standard, doesn't make it so.

and yeah, i hope zenyatta ties pepper's pride. no one wants the record to be held exclusively by a horse that only raced in new mexico.

:rolleyes:

[miraja2]

The only real shame is Z's connections. Rachels know she is not the same and they have really just run her accordingly. Look at the horse who tested her at Monmouth last time, look what she did today. Some people came on here saying she was actually good and moved up on dirt, yes she proved it today. The shame is this... Z would have not only won, but cruised in every race Rachel has been in this year. Dont get me wrong Rachel is HOY last year and like the article on DRF says nothing changes that, but she is not the same filly and not nearly as good as Z.
They certainly have run a pretty weak campaign. So perhaps you are right in saying that they believe (as you and others do) that she is significantly worse than last year. Personally, I don't see it.
Her performances last year were overrated by many.
Her performances this year are being underrated by many.

Not every winning performance is outstanding and not every second place performance is a barrel of crap. If you look at her last few races this year (including today's) I don't see how it puts her that much behind where she was last year. She wasn't Ruffian last year, no matter how much some people wanted her to be, and she isn't a pile of poo this year.....no matter how much Zenyatta's legions of worshipers might want her to be.

[Princess Doreen]

The first quarter was too fast. LAT came at Rachel hammer and tong. Rachel didn't win, but she made LAT yell uncle. Persistently was sitting chilly stalking the pace, Alan knew when to open up. It was devastating to see Rachel's lead dwindle to nothing. That final 1/16 was run in slow motion - she was barely lifting her feet off the ground, but she kept running on heart aand class alone.

And, I don't see anything wrong with the ride Calvin gave her. The issue about the use of the whip is a non-issue. It's a padded whip that she barely felt.

Rachel - you always perform like a champion, and today was no exception. Even in defeat, you are amazing. And, as this tired warrior was walking slowly back to the barn, the crowd gave her a well-deserved standing ovation.

On to the BC Distaff? (or whatever they are now calling it)

[clyde]

Why don't they just put the poor horsey in a retirement home?

[DaTruth]

At least RA's connections moved out of their comfort zone and ran RA at a distance that wasn't going to be her best. They could have run her in the Molly Pitcher instead and then pointed for the Beldame.

[westcoastinvader]

I've been pretty busy today.


I guess from reading here that Rachel Alexandra did not win in a short field that most here seemed to think was a walkover?

The winner paid $45?


For anyone who played exactas with the field with Rachel on the bottom, the $8 wager returned $94.00?



NEVER would have guessed that Rachel Alexandra would hit the board in a five horse field and still the trifecta would pay $228.


Now I have a better understanding of how Chicago/Arkansas/Bill's Wife Hillary Clinton became a US Senator from New York.

[ateamstupid]

So let's see, you know nothing about the race, but you still think it appropriate to deride everyone who didn't see the obvious $45 winner that had a career top BSF of 85 and hadn't developed a step since 2008. Even for a redboarder, that's lame.

[Danzig]

:rolleyes:


that's it? wow, i think i see the light. you're so right, they are light years ahead of the horses rachel faced last year. you've convinced me, just by a timely use of the :rolleyes: emoticon. gee, thanks smooth operator.

[CSC]

Anybody back on subject? When RA turned for home I thought she was home free. I guess the 1 1/4 got her today.

When watching the replay of yesterday's race, you could see quite visibly Rachel shortening stride once she hit the final 1/8th pole, I would term Persistently's race more as outlasting the competition, rather than running down the opposition, It was an okay race, but I wasn't particularily impressed with anyone's race yesterday.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

69-1 the winner was on Betfair:eek:

She was an 80/1 shot on paper. Two wildly superior horses with similar running styles - and she was only the 2nd best horse of the remaining three. She was truly no great bargain at 69/1 even knowing the two favorites might hook up hard because Life At Ten had nothing to gain from finishing 2nd.

I didn't look yesterday - but I'd be curious to know what she was trading at to hit the board if you saw it.

[slotdirt]

Just thinking about Zenyatta for a second - has there ever been a horse who's made the HOF without ever running at Belmont, Saratoga, or Churchill? Just curious.

[Thunder Gulch]

:rolleyes:


RA basically competed against glorified mules in '09...

Wait...I thought RA never faced Zenyatta.:confused:

[Port Conway Lane]

Just thinking about Zenyatta for a second - has there ever been a horse who's made the HOF without ever running at Belmont, Saratoga, or Churchill? Just curious.

Native Diver ?

[slotdirt]

Did Swaps ever venture to NY?

[brockguy]

She was an 80/1 shot on paper. Two wildly superior horses with similar running styles - and she was only the 2nd best horse of the remaining three. She was truly no great bargain at 69/1 even knowing the two favorites might hook up hard because Life At Ten had nothing to gain from finishing 2nd.

I didn't look yesterday - but I'd be curious to know what she was trading at to hit the board if you saw it.

I was just looking at the win pool to be honest but Ill get you the place pool info when I get the info - though it was 2 places only rather than 3.

I had a nightmare betting the race. I was all set to go against Rachel in it. Instead of laying Rachel at 1.56 (she drifted to 1.8 just before off time!), I thought Id be very cute and back heavy on Life at Ten at 3.65 and light on Miss Singhsix at 15 and ignore the two rank outsiders. That came back to bite me big time.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

I was just looking at the win pool to be honest but Ill get you the place pool info when I get the info - though it was 2 places only rather than 3.

I had a nightmare betting the race. I was all set to go against Rachel in it. Instead of laying Rachel at 1.56 (she drifted to 1.8 just before off time!), I thought Id be very cute and back heavy on Life at Ten at 3.65 and light on Miss Singhsix at 15 and ignore the two rank outsiders. That came back to bite me big time.

Life At Ten was a really bad play in there for the simple fact that she was in a lose/lose. If her rider relaxed her off of RA - she likely finishes 2nd by 4 lengths to RA. If she hooks RA - she has to do it from the outside - which is a total death sentance.

[Thunder Gulch]

On paper the BCC field was better than what RA faced and light years better than anything Zenyatta has faced in the last 2 years. That's on paper, however, and the race was won on plastic. Who knows what would have happened on a fast dirt track- we know Zenyatta would have scratched if not fast- but you can't just look at the likes of the Euros and Gio and talk about their mere presence making the quality of racing better. If they were on grass its a different story for those. I also wouldn't judge Summer Bird on the basis of that plastic track effort. That was a heck of a nice colt during the summer/ fall campaign, so an unfamiliar surface after a long year doesn't tell the tale. Call him the worst Belmont/Travers winner ever if you will, but that's a tag most any would take. In between those, he was crushed by that filly..
As for Rachel - clearly not the same horse. Even the die hards who pointed to good times in earlier losses have little to look at this time. Some are excusing it saying she dueled, but last year she dueled in quicker fractions and won the Preakness and Woodward. I'll admit last year wasn't the greatest group of 3yo ever assembled, but you don't win 100+ year old classics like the KY Oaks by 20 lengths or leave a trail of records without showing greatness. Spectacular Bid and Ruffian didn't beat much but they stopped the clock faster than anyone had ever done on more than one occasion.

[Travis Stone]

Well said TG...

[hockey2315]

How was Summer Bird even close to being the worst Belmont/Travers winner ever?

[Danzig]

How was Summer Bird even close to being the worst Belmont/Travers winner ever?


his inclusion in the classic helps make it a good field...those other races, not so much. makes perfect sense, doesn't it? :D

[dalakhani]

How was Summer Bird even close to being the worst Belmont/Travers winner ever?

He was close. His old man is the worst to win both.

[Linny]

Just thinking about Zenyatta for a second - has there ever been a horse who's made the HOF without ever running at Belmont, Saratoga, or Churchill? Just curious.

By the time she retires (if all goes to plan) Z will have run in the BCC at Churchill. I'd have to search for an answer to the question, though I imagine it's quite probably "yes."

[westcoastinvader]

So let's see, you know nothing about the race, but you still think it appropriate to deride everyone who didn't see the obvious $45 winner that had a career top BSF of 85 and hadn't developed a step since 2008. Even for a redboarder, that's lame.

Actually I guess I'm just PO'd at myself.

I tried to beat Rachel with my plays in her prior race.

Yesterday an $18 tri box with Rachel and the field returned $228.

$16 exacta boxes with Rachel and the field returned $94.

I find it freaking amazing that the exotic wagers were so top loaded.

And po'd I missed it.

[westcoastinvader]

Just thinking about Zenyatta for a second - has there ever been a horse who's made the HOF without ever running at Belmont, Saratoga, or Churchill? Just curious.

Most of Secretariat's glorious 21 races were on the "island" of New York State.

He ventured to Kentucky once, New Jersey twice and Maryland twice.

His last race was in Toronto, just a stone's throw from Finger Lakes.

[prudery]

By the time she retires (if all goes to plan) Z will have run in the BCC at Churchill. I'd have to search for an answer to the question, though I imagine it's quite probably "yes."

It is yes.

Ancient Title , I believe never left California and is in, Pan Zareta only ran in the Midwest and showed up at Jamaica .

I believe Paseana never went to Churchill, Belmont or Saratoga, ditto Miesque and All Along ...

There probably are more ...

[MLC]

Most of Secretariat's glorious 21 races were on the "island" of New York State.

He ventured to Kentucky once, New Jersey twice and Maryland twice.

His last race was in Toronto, just a stone's throw from Finger Lakes.

I believe Secretariat also ran at Arlington, 3 weeks after the Belmont.
In his HOY season as a 4 yr. old, Swaps ran in the midwest and in Florida

[slotdirt]

Paseana definitely ran in NY at some point.

[Thunder Gulch]

How was Summer Bird even close to being the worst Belmont/Travers winner ever?

In no way am I saying that. I think he was a really good colt on dirt through the spring and summer, but his failure on plastic seems to validate the lack of competition argument for those wanting to discredit RA's wins.

[blackthroatedwind]

It is yes.

Ancient Title , I believe never left California and is in, Pan Zareta only ran in the Midwest and showed up at Jamaica .

I believe Paseana never went to Churchill, Belmont or Saratoga, ditto Miesque and All Along ...

There probably are more ...


Ancient Title won the 1975 Whitney and raced at Belmont in the Fall in the Marlboro Cup against Wajima, Forego, and Foolish Pleasure ( among others ). He probably also ran in the Governor's Cup at Belmont as well.

[Smooth Operator]

I also wouldn't judge Summer Bird on the basis of that plastic track effort. That was a heck of a nice colt during the summer/ fall campaign, so an unfamiliar surface after a long year doesn't tell the tale. Call him the worst Belmont/Travers winner ever if you will, but that's a tag most any would take. In between those, he was crushed by that filly..

Haskell was merely a prep race for SB.

He no doubt would've handled the overrated filly in the Travers...

[johnny pinwheel]

Actually I guess I'm just PO'd at myself.

I tried to beat Rachel with my plays in her prior race.

Yesterday an $18 tri box with Rachel and the field returned $228.

$16 exacta boxes with Rachel and the field returned $94.

I find it freaking amazing that the exotic wagers were so top loaded.

And po'd I missed it.

remember, i told you to save that money until sunday...i did, but i did not have persistently......

[prudery]

Ancient Title won the 1975 Whitney and raced at Belmont in the Fall in the Marlboro Cup against Wajima, Forego, and Foolish Pleasure ( among others ). He probably also ran in the Governor's Cup at Belmont as well.

Thanks---I was going by memory--not always accurate .

[kgar311]

Hey, Smooth Operator since your ran against nothing horse didnt win HOY last year I see you are on here trying to lock up your own award by the end of August. You've done it!!! Here is your trophy for DOUCHE BAG PHUCKING A$$ HOLE OF THE YEAR AWARD :tro::tro: shine it up and put it on the mantle for all to see. While Rachel was running against the grain this year what was your take on all 30k claimers mare doing this year beside hiding out in Cali again? Nothing. Hopefully you will be run off the board after Zenyatta finally faces some competition on a real surface at CD in November and is soundly beaten. Only of course after she has taken down Peppers Pride for that elusive win streak title.

[Smooth Operator]

Hey, Smooth Operator since your ran against nothing horse didnt win HOY last year I see you are on here trying to lock up your own award by the end of August. You've done it!!! Here is your trophy for DOUCHE BAG PHUCKING A$$ HOLE OF THE YEAR AWARD :tro::tro: shine it up and put it on the mantle for all to see. While Rachel was running against the grain this year what was your take on all 30k claimers mare doing this year beside hiding out in Cali again? Nothing. Hopefully you will be run off the board after Zenyatta finally faces some competition on a real surface at CD in November and is soundly beaten. Only of course after she has taken down Peppers Pride for that elusive win streak title.

^^^^ Yet another unhinged RA fan :D

[kgar311]

^^^^ Yet another unhinged RA fan :D

No dude your just a Phucking douche that needs to be punched in the face. Your on every thread here gloating about a horse losing a race and touting a mare that has done absolutly nothing in here career that calls for praise. Rachel gave us racing fans and the sport a year that will never be forgotten and in doing so cost herself her 4yr old campaign. Where was Zenyatta at 3 and 4?? besides scratching out against the best poly horse off all time??? and being tucked in at home every night. You're a disgusting human being and if I was Steve I would bar your ass for life. You add nothing to the board and know nothing about horse racing. I wish you nothing but the worst in life.

[RockHardTen1985]

No dude your just a Phucking douche that needs to be punched in the face. Your on every thread here gloating about a horse losing a race and touting a mare that has done absolutly nothing in here career that calls for praise. Rachel gave us racing fans and the sport a year that will never be forgotten and in doing so cost herself her 4yr old campaign. Where was Zenyatta at 3 and 4?? besides scratching out against the best poly horse off all time??? and being tucked in at home every night. You're a disgusting human being and if I was Steve I would bar your ass for life. You add nothing to the board and know nothing about horse racing. I wish you nothing but the worst in life.

Are you ok? Calm down....
Please dont start following Dougs horrible opinion of Nashobas Key. Im assuming thats who you mean when you say the best poly horse of all time. She was an ok horse, but because one clown over hypes her does not mean you have to. If anything, without ANY DOUBT and even if its her only accolade ZENYATTA IS CLEARLY THE BEST POLY HORSE EVER. At 4 Zenyatta was winning the BC Ladies Classic with total ease, and Im fairly confident if entered she would have won the Classic. Again her connections are pitiful.

[kgar311]

Are you ok? Calm down....
Please dont start following Dougs horrible opinion of Nashobas Key. Im assuming thats who you mean when you say the best poly horse of all time. She was an ok horse, but because one clown over hypes her does not mean you have to. If anything, without ANY DOUBT and even if its her only accolade ZENYATTA IS CLEARLY THE BEST POLY HORSE EVER. At 4 Zenyatta was winning the BC Ladies Classic with total ease, and Im fairly confident if entered she would have won the Classic. Again her connections are pitiful.

Nashobas Key would of cleaned Zenyatta clock the day she scratched out FACT and was a better Poly horse than Zen FACT

[RockHardTen1985]

Nashobas Key would of cleaned Zenyatta clock the day she scratched out FACT and was a better Poly horse than Zen FACT

Ok.

[TitanSooner]

Nashobas Key would of cleaned Zenyatta clock the day she scratched out FACT and was a better Poly horse than Zen FACT

how are those FACTS?

[CSC]

Nashobas Key would of cleaned Zenyatta clock the day she scratched out FACT and was a better Poly horse than Zen FACT

Yep, you've convinced me.

[Smooth Operator]

No dude your just a Phucking douche that needs to be punched in the face. Your on every thread here gloating about a horse losing a race and touting a mare that has done absolutly nothing in here career that calls for praise. Rachel gave us racing fans and the sport a year that will never be forgotten and in doing so cost herself her 4yr old campaign. Where was Zenyatta at 3 and 4?? besides scratching out against the best poly horse off all time??? and being tucked in at home every night. You're a disgusting human being and if I was Steve I would bar your ass for life. You add nothing to the board and know nothing about horse racing. I wish you nothing but the worst in life.

LOL … and this clown wants me banned from the board.

Too funny


HILARIOUS that you're knocking Z's campaigns when RA was the NO SHOW at both the BC and the AB…

[the_fat_man]

Oh, for cripes sake, shut up - the lot of you. You make Jr. High class clowns look like Rhodes Scholars. Now we're into unwarranted insults, physical threats, and death wishes.

These FAST disciples are like that. They buy into their PARADIGMS and then when the system fails them, in other words, their horses run SLOW (or the lose to SLOW(ER) horses), they don't know how to deal with it. The only thing left is to go back to the only thing they have left: attacking the SLOW horse; you know, the one that's NEVER lost. :rolleyes: Mike the Eunuch, over at PA, has made this his life's work. A DVD of all his posts will hit the market by the end of the year.:rolleyes:

[RockHardTen1985]

how are those FACTS?


He clearly is losing it. Telling people he wishes harm on them, he actually is acting like Doug and using Dougs arguments, maybe they are bfnbf

[Rupert Pupkin]

The one thing that nobody is bringing up is the track itself at Saratoga. There are plenty of horses that don't like that track. RA may not like that track. There may be a big difference between RA at Saratoga vs RA at Churchill or Belmont.

The same thing can be said for Life at Ten. She may not like Saratoga. She's never won there. She's 0 for 3 at Saratoga.

[kgar311]

The one thing that nobody is bringing up is the track itself at Saratoga. There are plenty of horses that don't like that track. RA may not like that track. There may be a big difference between RA at Saratoga vs RA at Churchill or Belmont.

The same thing can be said for Life at Ten. She may not like Saratoga. She's never won there. She's 0 for 3 at Saratoga.

its also funny to me that the worst race by far in Rachels career beyer wise was equal to Zenyattas last "spine tingling" win

[Rupert Pupkin]

its also funny to me that the worst race by far in Rachels career beyer wise was equal to Zenyattas last "spine tingling" win

The way that track (Saratoga) was playing (tiring) on Sunday, and the way that race set up, I think Zenyatta would have won that race by about 8-10 lengths. I'm not saying that makes her a better horse. I don't think Rachel likes Saratoga.

[ateamstupid]

The way that track (Saratoga) was playing (tiring) on Sunday, and the way that race set up, I think Zenyatta would have won that race by about 8-10 lengths. I'm not saying that makes her a better horse. I don't think Rachel likes Saratoga.

Huh? Speed was good on Sunday. And Rachel doesn't like Saratoga? What on earth gives you that idea? Her Woodward last year -- I know you people can't understand this -- was very good, and she was beaten by pace/distance on Sunday, not the surface.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Huh? Speed was good on Sunday. And Rachel doesn't like Saratoga? What on earth gives you that idea? Her Woodward last year -- I know you people can't understand this -- was very good, and she was beaten by pace/distance on Sunday, not the surface.

Every time I have watched one of those 1 1/8 or 1 1/4 mile races at Saratoga, the track looks very tiring. It almost reminds me of Del Mar in the sense that it doesn't seem to matter how slow they go, the come-from-behinders still seem to have the edge. Blind Luck came from well out of it, even though the pace was slow. Blame was able to run Quality Road down, even though the pace was just moderate. It's the same way at Del Mar. They can go :49 or slower and a horse like Richard's Kid can still win coming from way out of it.

With regard to RA's race at Saratoga last year, I thought she ran ok but I didn't think it was anywhere near one of her best performances. I know that she was taking on older males that day and I know that she set a pretty fast pace. Despite that, I would have still expected her to win a little easier if she would have run anything close to her best. Do I know for sure that it was because of the surface? No, I don't know that for sure. I'm simply saying that could be one possibility.

[ateamstupid]

Every time I have watched one of those 1 1/8 or 1 1/4 mile races at Saratoga, the track looks very tiring. It almost reminds me of Del Mar in the sense that it doesn't seem to matter how slow they go, the come-from-behinders still seem to have the edge. Blind Luck came from well out of it, even though the pace was slow. Blame was able to run Quality Road down, even though the pace was just moderate. It's the same way at Del Mar. They can go :49 or slower and a horse like Richard's Kid can still win coming from way out of it.

With regard to RA's race at Saratoga last year, I thought she ran ok but I didn't think it was anywhere near one of her best performances. I know that she was taking on older males that day and I know that she set a pretty fast pace. Despite that, I would have still expected her to win a little easier if she would have run anything close to her best. Do I know for sure that it was because of the surface? No, I don't know that for sure. I'm simply saying that could be one possibility.

You named two horses that have proven they can overcome slow paces in the past at other tracks as well. That's hardly enough of a sample to compare Saratoga to a synthetic track. What about Glenwood Canyon running way better than he had any right to against Convocation on the lead? What about A Little Warm and Miner's Reserve going 1-2 around the track in the Jim Dandy? What about Winslow Homer wiring the field to win by a pole in the Curlin? What about Trickmeister doing the same in the Pleasant Colony? If anything, two-turn races at Saratoga this meet have been more kind to speed than closers. And this weekend's track was indisputably speed-favoring.

And as for the Woodward, horses just don't go :22 and :46 and 'win easy' at Saratoga. It doesn't happen. That she won at all is unbelievable and certainly doesn't support any antipathy for the surface.

[Rupert Pupkin]

You named two horses that have proven they can overcome slow paces in the past at other tracks as well. That's hardly enough of a sample to compare Saratoga to a synthetic track. What about Glenwood Canyon running way better than he had any right to against Convocation on the lead? What about A Little Warm and Miner's Reserve going 1-2 around the track in the Jim Dandy? What about Winslow Homer wiring the field to win by a pole in the Curlin? What about Trickmeister doing the same in the Pleasant Colony? If anything, two-turn races at Saratoga this meet have been more kind to speed than closers. And this weekend's track was indisputably speed-favoring.

And as for the Woodward, horses just don't go :22 and :46 and 'win easy' at Saratoga. It doesn't happen. That she won at all is unbelievable and certainly doesn't support any antipathy for the surface.

You obviously saw the Ky Oaks last year. Did it look like RA was getting tired after 1 1/8 miles? They could have run 1 1/4 miles that day and she would have won by an even bigger margin. And it's not like they went slower that day. They went :47 2/5 in the Oaks and she was sitting a length off the lead. RA may not be able to get 1 1/4 miles at Saratoga, but that distance has not looked like a problem for her at other tracks.

[ateamstupid]

You obviously saw the Ky Oaks last year. Did it look like RA was getting tired after 1 1/8 miles? They could have run 1 1/4 miles that day and she would have won by an even bigger margin. And it's not like they went slower that day. They went :47 2/5 in the Oaks and she was sitting a length off the lead. RA may not be able to get 1 1/4 miles at Saratoga, but that distance has not looked like a problem for her at other tracks.

Quality Road looked like he could've run 2 miles in the Donn, does that mean he can do it? Or does he hate Saratoga too? Rachel beat a field of crows in the Oaks while being able to relax early. She didn't run her eyeballs out against her primary opponent early and then hit a wall exactly at the 1/8 pole. As I said before, whether it's because of stamina or her keenness early, she'll never get 10 furlongs in a race like the Classic. Trust me, if she hated Saratoga in the Woodward, she would've packed it in at the top of the stretch. She had every right to.

[2Hot4TV]

I was out of the country for the last 2 week and I guess I missed the RA excitement.

Has RA won a race this year?

Hell of a 3yo and JUST a real good older race mare.

She wont make it to the Breeders Cup, she doesnt want to race anymore.

Put a fork in it and retire. Keep racing her and we will forget her altogether.

[Danzig]

I was out of the country for the last 2 week and I guess I missed the RA excitement.

Has RA won a race this year?

Hell of a 3yo and JUST a real good older race mare.

She wont make it to the Breeders Cup, she doesnt want to race anymore.

Put a fork in it and retire. Keep racing her and we will forget her altogether.


:zz:

[CSC]

I was out of the country for the last 2 week and I guess I missed the RA excitement.

Has RA won a race this year?

Hell of a 3yo and JUST a real good older race mare.

She wont make it to the Breeders Cup, she doesnt want to race anymore.

Put a fork in it and retire. Keep racing her and we will forget her altogether.

I'll answer the last paragraph, she is definitely not done and she definitely should not retire.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Quality Road looked like he could've run 2 miles in the Donn, does that mean he can do it? Or does he hate Saratoga too? Rachel beat a field of crows in the Oaks while being able to relax early. She didn't run her eyeballs out against her primary opponent early and then hit a wall exactly at the 1/8 pole. As I said before, whether it's because of stamina or her keenness early, she'll never get 10 furlongs in a race like the Classic. Trust me, if she hated Saratoga in the Woodward, she would've packed it in at the top of the stretch. She had every right to.

I think Quality Road is probably a much better horse at Gulfstream than he is at Saratoga. I highly doubt Blame could have beaten QR in the Donn, had Blame been in the race.

[westcoastinvader]

I believe Secretariat also ran at Arlington, 3 weeks after the Belmont.
In his HOY season as a 4 yr. old, Swaps ran in the midwest and in Florida

Thanks.

I had glanced at his race record and missed the "AP" and lumped it with the "Aqu's."

I forgot about that Arlington Park Secretariat race. $125,000 Invitational against My Gallant, Our Native and a 4th horse.

[Metal Man]

its also funny to me that the worst race by far in Rachels career beyer wise was equal to Zenyattas last "spine tingling" win

Just goes to show up the quaility of beyers!