what do you all think....

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

how is horseracing doing..........with two high profile runners hurt or put down....do you think that racing is getting more bad or good publicity..the barbero case is in my view a good one ..the horse was saved... thoughts...:cool:

[31lengths]

NBC showing him hurt over and over really hurt for the casual fans. The people I talked to who don't watch it regularly said that they have no reason to watch if that's going to happen.

However the attention given to him being saved really really helped. I thought that this was very important that ALL of the public new that they would do everything to save him. I think that they did it right. That may have set a new standard, though.

More TV coverage would help, too.

[Skip away]

I noticed on ESPN today they had a commercial for the Belmont Stakes. It was a pathetic quick spot, they had absolutely no way to market this year's running of the Belmont, lacking both Barbaro and Bernardini. To the general public, this Belmont will mean nothing and this should be one of the worst ratings in years. The card itself is great but the general public doesnt care about that, only the hardcore fans and the compulsive gamblers. That makes up for less than 1/2 of the crowd NYRA is looking for.

Barabro is a feel good story but nothing can save this weekend's Belmont. Who cares about Blueglass Cat and Sunriver?

[oracle80]

I think its in fine shape.

[oracle80]

I noticed on ESPN today they had a commercial for the Belmont Stakes. It was a pathetic quick spot, they had absolutely no way to market this year's running of the Belmont, lacking both Barbaro and Bernardini. To the general public, this Belmont will mean nothing and this should be one of the worst ratings in years. The card itself is great but the general public doesnt care about that, only the hardcore fans and the compulsive gamblers. That makes up for less than 1/2 of the crowd NYRA is looking for.

Barabro is a feel good story but nothing can save this weekend's Belmont. Who cares about Blueglass Cat and Sunriver?

Skip I don't quite understand, I really don't. racing is driven by handle and gambling. Who cares if 20 million folks tune in and don't bet a quarter? The purses and success of racetracks is directly driven by handle. I predict a record handle, and teh card will be great. You market racing to the people who are interedted in it. And the point of marketing to people who will never like it is lost on me. You could sit me in a room for a month making me watch Nascar commercials and there isn't any way I will ever watch so much as a second of it. Its just not my thing. You dont try and sell steak to vegetarians.

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

good point......how do you turn the casual watcher into a player...:cool:

[eurobounce]

The Triple Crown is a thing of the past. I think they should dissolve the theory of The Triple Crown. I think each race should be treated individually. Winning the triple crown has lost tons of its luster over the past two decades. Horse racing, in general, is fine. Horse racing just needs to find a way to attract younger people. To go to the track for a full card is a 6 hour investment for about 20 minutes of racing. That is insane if you ask me.

[Cajungator26]

Skip I don't quite understand, I really don't. racing is driven by handle and gambling. Who cares if 20 million folks tune in and don't bet a quarter? The purses and success of racetracks is directly driven by handle. I predict a record handle, and teh card will be great. You market racing to the people who are interedted in it. And the point of marketing to people who will never like it is lost on me. You could sit me in a room for a month making me watch Nascar commercials and there isn't any way I will ever watch so much as a second of it. Its just not my thing. You dont try and sell steak to vegetarians.

BECAUSE some people DO respond to marketing. If they didn't market to the general public, they might miss some potential gamblers/fans of horse racing. For example... would you go to the movies if you didn't know what movie was out? How would you know if (for example), Seabiscuit was out in the theatres if they hadn't shown previews for it? Same thing here IMO.

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

Marketing is good for the young people who might be interested in horse racing, but whose parents know nothing about it. That wasn't the case with me as my mom watched Cigar race, and I really started to like it when Silver Charm went for the TC, but it may be the case for some.

[oracle80]

BECAUSE some people DO respond to marketing. If they didn't market to the general public, they might miss some potential gamblers/fans of horse racing. For example... would you go to the movies if you didn't know what movie was out? How would you know if (for example), Seabiscuit was out in the theatres if they hadn't shown previews for it? Same thing here IMO.
Cajun,
I know we need to market the product, I'm not disputing that. But in the case of Belmont day, Skip is saying that the commercial is dumb and that nothing can save it. You telling me you support that line of thought? Tahst incredibly short sighted and dumb. WHen life hands you lemons, you make lemonade. The notion that they should not advertise the day because bernadini and Barbaro wont be there is incredulous. So what has NYRA done? They are doing exactly what i would do and what will save the day.
Its not realistic to expect new fans to come in droves due to teh lack of star power in the race. We have no Funny Cide or Smarty Jones or Barbaro.
So they have geared this day towards producing a record handle and getting the existing fan base EXCITED!!!!! And with this guy here, they have succeeded!!!! 6 stakes, 3 grade ones, 3 grade twos!!!! NO CLAIMING RACES!!!! 13 spectacular betting races which will have full fields. Sure to excite everyone who wants to gamble that day.
What should they have done Skip, just run an ad that says well we are screwed this year and noone cares, dont bother watching?
They have done a stellar job produciing a card that will be better overall than any racetrack will produce all year, even saratoga, with teh notable excpetion of Breeders Cup day.

[Metal Man]

good point......how do you turn the casual watcher into a player...:cool:
It's hard to get people to play the ponies. I was helping fix a friends 57 Chevy and made him go to the track with me to play a live horse I had. The tip payed 17.60 and my friend made a $176.00 and as we were leaving the horses were walking by and there was a horse that looks like the best animal in of the group times ten, so I pointed this out to my friend and he runs to the window and plays a 20 on him. Well the horse wins, he collects another 78 dollars and this is this only thing you are going to hear about from him for the next week. He has not gone back to the track in 2 years. If that can't get you going, what can?

[Skip away]

If marketing and advertising didnt work, then why does Coke and Pepsi spend so much on it? I agree about your point on Nascar, I wouldnt watch it no matter what commercials I saw or didnt see, same goes for golf, soccer, and bowling. I have my mind made up on those and I wont watch.

But for the person who doesnt have his/her mind made up and sees an exciting commercial with a potential storyline, they could be swayed to tune in and eventually turn into a fan. Thats how Nascar has become 100 times more popular than horse racing. Marketing and advertising. They do not have a superior product by any means, they are just way smarter than the people in charge of horse racing. They can get a lower class family to go to races and blow $500-600 between tickets and beer & food. A day at the track costs nowhere near that much yet people still are hesitant to go. What can we expect this Saturday at Belmont, maybe 30K if they are lucky? Big deal, they get 3-4 times that any given car race.

What is saving horse racing are the compulsive gamblers who spend countless hours and bet paychecks through phone and internet accounts.
Without them, this wouldnt be afloat.

[Skip away]

Oracle- I wasnt saying they shouldnt show the commercial, I was merely pointing out it was a commerical void of anything, you seen it? Its pathetic. It lasts what seems 5 seconds tops. Hope they didnt spend more than $100 to make that commercial, otherwise they got taken to the cleaners.

Its an unfortunate situation for all of us that Bluegrass Cat and Sunriver will be the stars of the Belmont. Thank goodness for the real fans that we have the undercard. :rolleyes:

[oracle80]

I'm not saying that we should ever stop marketing the product, NEVER!
But in business you have to tailor your marketing to the situation at hand.
After the Derby, Nyra and Bill nader were planning on marketing Barbaro as the next tri crown winner. After he took that step, it all changed. And then when Bernadini said I will pass, well, what could they do.
They did what intelligent people would do, they have harped on the quality of the spectacular undercard and made that the focus of their efforts. They could have attempted to get casuall observers excited about Steppenwolfer or Bluegrass Cat, but that wasn't gonna work and they knew it.
So they focused on the incredible 13 race card with 6 grade ones and grade twos and no claiming races. They have geared the marketing towards the people who play horses and want to see a whole great race card, not just one race. I don't see how anyone could criticize NYRA's efforts. They weren't dealt the gteatest hand here, and are handling things very well.

[oracle80]

Oracle- I wasnt saying they shouldnt show the commercial, I was merely pointing out it was a commerical void of anything, you seen it? Its pathetic. It lasts what seems 5 seconds tops. Hope they didnt spend more than $100 to make that commercial, otherwise they got taken to the cleaners.

Its an unfortunate situation for all of us that Bluegrass Cat and Sunriver will be the stars of the Belmont. Thank goodness for the real fans that we have the undercard. :rolleyes:


Skip,
Bill Nader is one of the sharpest guys in racing. WHy blow your advertising budget on commericals that you know wont help teh task at hand. You have to make some token effort, but it makes no sense to blow a lotta cash on this.

[Cajungator26]

If marketing and advertising didnt work, then why does Coke and Pepsi spend so much on it? I agree about your point on Nascar, I wouldnt watch it no matter what commercials I saw or didnt see, same goes for golf, soccer, and bowling. I have my mind made up on those and I wont watch.

But for the person who doesnt have his/her mind made up and sees an exciting commercial with a potential storyline, they could be swayed to tune in and eventually turn into a fan. Thats how Nascar has become 100 times more popular than horse racing. Marketing and advertising. They do not have a superior product by any means, they are just way smarter than the people in charge of horse racing. They can get a lower class family to go to races and blow $500-600 between tickets and beer & food. A day at the track costs nowhere near that much yet people still are hesitant to go. What can we expect this Saturday at Belmont, maybe 30K if they are lucky? Big deal, they get 3-4 times that any given car race.

What is saving horse racing are the compulsive gamblers who spend countless hours and bet paychecks through phone and internet accounts.
Without them, this wouldnt be afloat.

While I'm not a Nascar fan because of the hot drivers... (:o), the drivers are also more interesting to most people than the horses are. It's fun to get really involved in a sport by purchasing merchandise for your fave driver, meeting the driver, etc. Personally, I love both horse racing AND Nascar (I know what it entails to get those cars out on the track and I respect that), but I think horse racing is a better sport because horses are real animals and you can't predict what they are going to do on the track on any given day. For most people though, they want to see a hot young driver more than they want to see an 1100 lb race horse. Put Dale Jr (who I DON'T think is hot, but most people do) on one of those horses and you have the winning combination. LOL

[eurobounce]

If marketing and advertising didnt work, then why does Coke and Pepsi spend so much on it? I agree about your point on Nascar, I wouldnt watch it no matter what commercials I saw or didnt see, same goes for golf, soccer, and bowling. I have my mind made up on those and I wont watch.

But for the person who doesnt have his/her mind made up and sees an exciting commercial with a potential storyline, they could be swayed to tune in and eventually turn into a fan. Thats how Nascar has become 100 times more popular than horse racing. Marketing and advertising. They do not have a superior product by any means, they are just way smarter than the people in charge of horse racing. They can get a lower class family to go to races and blow $500-600 between tickets and beer & food. A day at the track costs nowhere near that much yet people still are hesitant to go. What can we expect this Saturday at Belmont, maybe 30K if they are lucky? Big deal, they get 3-4 times that any given car race.

What is saving horse racing are the compulsive gamblers who spend countless hours and bet paychecks through phone and internet accounts.
Without them, this wouldnt be afloat.

Unfortunately, NASCAR has a far superior product compared to horse racing. I love both sports to the Nth Degree. But NASCAR has something that horse racing doesnt--CONSTANT ACTION. You go to a NASCAR race and it is an all day event. But you get 5 hours of racing. You get to see your favorite driver and you get to boo your most hated driver. You get to see wrecks, you see racing for 5 hours, while drinking beer in the sun with your buddies. Horse racing is so boring to the average fan. You get 20 minutes of racing for your 6 hour time commitment. This is the problem. Plus there is a stigma that the mafia controls racing and to a certain point that is true. No one wants to bet their money on a fixed race. However, horse racing is fine but it will be no where near the product NASCAR has.

[Skip away]

Nascar is machines, horse racing is beautiful animals as atheltic as any athletes in the world. Please dont go telling me Nascar has a superior product.
The people in charge are very smart at promoting the sport. Converesely the people who run the grand sport of kings have a lot to learn and need to take some business courses. :D

[dellinger63]

The Barbaro incident put a bad taste in my mouth for sure. Johnny V. getting rolled on and then watching Eddie Perez, knocked out and motionless live at Arlington (luckily he was OK) was enough tragedy for this summer. Enjoying Arl. for the people and the facility is good enough right now and I'll get loaded up for Saratoga wagering wise later.

[eurobounce]

Nascar is machines, horse racing is beautiful animals as atheltic as any athletes in the world. Please dont go telling me Nascar has a superior product.
The people in charge are very smart at promoting the sport. Converesely the people who run the grand sport of kings have a lot to learn and need to take some business courses. :D

Well I will let the 100 thousand people each week, the corporate sponsors and the tv ratings speak for the philosophy that NASCAR has a superior product.

[jpops757]

Horseracing is doing fine in NY ,SoCal, So FLa,DFW and a few other localities. The success of the other sports is central control of the leagues with the expanding to more remote localities, Horseracing is concentrated in a few locals. The ntra needs to lead in development of the game in new locals. Look at the demise of Birmingham. This could have been a good place to expand but other venues offered no assistance to insure the success, LS and LaD are competing in stead of working ogether for the beterment of racing. The instances of selfishness of each track takes away form the best interest of the industry as a whole. Untill I was hooked on live racing Simocast had no appeal to me. I could have this all wrong but iI thuing the growth is Atlanta, Nashville, Kansas City, Denver,And Omaha just to name a few.

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

Well I will let the 100 thousand people each week, the corporate sponsors and the tv ratings speak for the philosophy that NASCAR has a superior product.
they have done well with it...but its the move to make it a family sport..for every john q public and jimmy lunch bucket..that has a tv is what got it so big..then the huge corprate involvment..why not let the jocks advertise on there pants...:cool:

[zippyneedsawin]

As a gambler, I'm looking forward to a wide open Belmont and a great undercard!!! Sure a lack of a derby or preakness winner will diminish the crowd/ratings a bit, but the overall handle should be fine, and real gamblers should love the fields and prices they will get. And those are the people the track's really want anyway.

[Suffolk Shippers]

Marketing is good for the young people who might be interested in horse racing, but whose parents know nothing about it. That wasn't the case with me as my mom watched Cigar race, and I really started to like it when Silver Charm went for the TC, but it may be the case for some.

Roses, you hit the nail right on the head. The game is gambling and handle driven, but how long will that go on for? You need to turn some of the younger generations from watchers to having some interest in wagering on the sport. That will allow the game to go on from where we are now.

That being said, the last few weeks have left some indelable marks on the sport. Wagering has not been hurt (to my knowledge) but it is unfortunate that the casual fan was exposed to the unfortunate side of the business in Barbaro's injury.

I think when something goes terribly wrong, or a team goes on a long losing streak, you can look back and point to a moment in time where things "hit rock bottom". I think the Belmont will be rock bottom for the industry this weekend. Not for wagering or what have you, but for the sense of "what could have been". Thats what will dominate the news coverage, and while gambling likely wont suffer, that thought will permeate. I think attendence will be less than last year's Giacomo-Afleet Alex rematch.

However, the sun will rise over Big Sandy Sunday morning and a group of claimers or allowance horses will spring from the gate at 100pm and all will be well, as the season dawns for the run up to the Breeders Cup, which will provide new stories and excitement and likely put the Barabro story off the front burner for good.

And next May, we will all be full circle. There will 150,000+ at Churchill Downs and we will all have our sterling selections (some maybe will be sold ;) ) and there will be a new stud race horse to admire. I think we are already all looking forward to it.