6/19-20 (BEL): New York S. (G2); Mike Lee S.

[Kasept]

9th (5:17) New York S. (G2)

1 1/4 Miles (Inner turf) | Fillies and Mares | 3 Year Olds And Up Stakes | Purse: $150,000

1 Ave (GB) Luzzi M J 116 L
2 Changing Skies (IRE) Hill C 120 L
3 Sweet and Flawless Goncalves L R 116 L
4 Nehantic Kat Cohen D 116 L
5 Daveron (GER) Maragh R 116 L
6 Lady Shakespeare Velazquez J R 120 L
7 Gozzip Girl Dominguez R A 118 L

[Kasept]

SUNDAY 9th (5:17) Mike Lee S.

7 Furlongs | Open | 3 Year Olds Stakes | Purse: $100,000

1 Make Note Prado E S 120 L
2 Ibboyee Velazquez J R 122 L
3 Fenway Faithful Dominguez R A 118 L
4 General Maximus Castellano J J 122 L
5 Raynick's Jet Velasquez C 120 L
6 Friend Or Foe Maragh R 118 L

[RockHardTen1985]

9th (5:17) New York S. (G2)

1 1/4 Miles (Inner turf) | Fillies and Mares | 3 Year Olds And Up Stakes | Purse: $150,000

1 Ave (GB) Luzzi M J 116 L
2 Changing Skies (IRE) Hill C 120 L
3 Sweet and Flawless Goncalves L R 116 L
4 Nehantic Kat Cohen D 116 L
5 Daveron (GER) Maragh R 116 L
6 Lady Shakespeare Velazquez J R 120 L
7 Gozzip Girl Dominguez R A 118 L

I really love Changing Skies in this spot.

[blackthroatedwind]

I really love Changing Skies in this spot.

She definitely should be able to handle Sweet and Flawless.

[RockHardTen1985]

She definitely should be able to handle Sweet and Flawless.

Im sure your dying to here why, so here it goes....

First off, Mott is on FIRE. Ill take a hot trainer anyday, especially a guy like this who can win in big bunches.
I dont want the 1, Quiet Meadow is ok and all, and personally I like her, but she loves running second. I thought really high of Rainbow View and she bombed in a big way at Woodbine, I want no part of the 1.
I dont want the 3,4 for the obvious reassons.
The 5, I have no respect at all for who this horse beat last time, I thought she also pulled a dream trip, she can win, but I dont want her, plus that huge run first time this country, first time off a long layoff could spell regression in this spot.
The 6 can win and Im a fan, but I think the last proves that shes not much better then my horse, and my horse will be around double the price.
I never thought the 7 was much, her big win at Hollywood is a mirage IMO, IMO the best horse finished 4th... Julian tryed getting through and could not, she gets through, she wins. Then she comes back to bomb twice after that, and she should also be a bit lower then my horse, especially with Ramon....
Back to the the 2, last time proved to me she can handle the firm turf, but is anyone going to argue shes best on the front end? Im not, Channing is patient, he rarley sends... I want him to lay second or third and blow this race open turning for home... I really believe, just on raw talent shes as good as anyone in here, and again the barn cant be doing any better.

[richard]

Let's not give the Big Apple Triple to Ibboyee just yet . He been spotted nice and showed up for his races . I think he's vulnerable here . Play him at the bottom of exotics . General Maximus , spotted for this race by the very successful John Terranova, is my pick to win .

[richard]

According to bloodhorse.com
"Kimmel said Friend Or Foe will likely bypass the series’ second leg, the $150,000 New York Derby at Finger Lakes on July 17, in favor of "bigger and better things."

He sounds like a pompous :zz: . Why even run in the first leg of the Big Apple Triple and then turn around and insult the series ?

Granted he may have been caught off guard by the question but he should have known it was coming .

[NTamm1215]

According to bloodhorse.com
"Kimmel said Friend Or Foe will likely bypass the series’ second leg, the $150,000 New York Derby at Finger Lakes on July 17, in favor of "bigger and better things."

He sounds like a pompous :zz: . Why even run in the first leg of the Big Apple Triple and then turn around and insult the series ?

Granted he may have been caught off guard by the question but he should have known it was coming .

Friend or Foe deserves to be tested more against open company. Considering how much his owners have put into the NY bred program, they shouldn't be castigated for opting to run him in graded stakes races.

NT

[richard]

I'm not referring to the owners . Kimmel's quote is bush. He could have made the point in an unoffensive manner .

Maybe he'll go to the Jim Dandy next.

[RockHardTen1985]

Friend or Foe deserves to be tested more against open company. Considering how much his owners have put into the NY bred program, they shouldn't be castigated for opting to run him in graded stakes races.

NT

I get the feeling we dont see much out of him vs open company.

[blackthroatedwind]

I believe he is being pointed, theoretically, to the Jim Dandy and Travers.

Let me ask you, being anyone, if he was your horse, given his talent as well as the respective talent in this division, would you be running him in the NY Derby next?

[RockHardTen1985]

I believe he is being pointed, theoretically, to the Jim Dandy and Travers.

Let me ask you, being anyone, if he was your horse, given his talent as well as the respective talent in this division, would you be running him in the NY Derby next?

Im not so sure about going long. If he was my horse I would go Amsterdam next. I am not nearly as high on him as some others, and I loved General Maximus yesterday, but Friend or For did all the dirty work and was strong late.

[blackthroatedwind]

If he was my horse I'd probably lean toward the Jim Dandy, for example. But I'd give it a little thought before the lips start flapping .

That's not totally unfair....but you're suggesting they didn't discuss it before yesterday's race.

[richard]

Kimmel should respect the Big Apple Triple more when he speaks, imo. We'll have to add up the numbers after the Albany H. at the spa and see if ForF has exceeded the potential winnings of sweeping the series at that time . Purse money available for the NY Derby and Albany H totals $250,000 plus a $100,000 if swept. Plus about $20,000 in breeder awards .

Don't get me wrong, there's plenty folks happy he's not in the series any more . Should make for a bigger field in the derby.

[RolloTomasi]

If he was my horse I'd probably lean toward the Jim Dandy, for example. But I'd give it a little thought before the lips start flapping .

Are you sure it was some flippant, callous remark? We don't know what tone he was using. That sort of remark is said all the time after horses win similar "stepping stone" races.

Is the Jim Dandy "bigger and better" than the NY Derby? How about running at Saratoga versus Finger Lakes?

[blackthroatedwind]

Im not so sure about going long. If he was my horse I would go Amsterdam next. I am not nearly as high on him as some others, and I loved General Maximus yesterday, but Friend or For did all the dirty work and was strong late.

Nothing personal, but your opinion of his talent is irrelevent.

The reason you run him in the Jim Dandy, and not the Amsterdam, is that if he fails to answer the distance question you can always turn him back for the King's Bishop.....while if he answers it positively you can shoot for the Travers, which is especially inviting this year given the crop. If you run him in the Amsterdam, while you may answer the talent question, you don't answer the more important one. Given the way he has already run, he has already shown he has the prerequisite talent.

The payoff in winning certain races is not the purses. It is partly the prestige but mostly in creating a sire. In this horse's case that not only has the obvious financial rewards, but also as a homebred, it has great cache.

[blackthroatedwind]

Kimmel should respect the Big Apple Triple more when he speaks, imo. We'll have to add up the numbers after the Albany H. at the spa and see if ForF has exceeded the potential winnings of sweeping the series at that time . Purse money available for the NY Derby and Albany H totals $250,000 plus a $100,000 if swept. Plus about $20,000 in breeder awards .

I don't think the Bromans need to apologize for their " respect " for the NY Bred program. They seem to do quite a lot to support it.

From an expected value standpoint, it would be lunacy NOT to run in the Jim Dandy.

[richard]

My beef is with Kimmel's comments, not the Broman's. We'll see after the Albany H how much "bigger and better" things really got .

[blackthroatedwind]

My beef is with Kimmel's comments, not the Broman's. We'll see after the Albany H how much "bigger and better" things really got .

You're not listening.

Stop acting as though this is some personal affront to the NY bred program and think about it logically.

[richard]

I guess you're right . I should actually say "Thank You" for not running in the rest of the triple . It does open up more opportunity for other horses .

And I'm starting to see the light now :$:... because the $100,000 bonus is not up for grabs I wonder if any of the Mile Lee horses will be in the NY Derby . I could be an interesting field with lots of betting opportunites . Thank you all for the enlightening dialogue and I agree FoF deserves his promotion.

[Linny]

This is a series that was swept once. FoF is 3 for 3 sprinting and is by a G1 route winning son of AP Indy o/o an Unbridled mare. I recall Unbridled Star as a pretty nice filly so like most of the Broman's NY breds, this one is very well bred to go a distance.
With the crop as shoddy as it is, it makes sense to take a shot in open company. If he were to sweep the Triple, it's worth about $250k. Running well (even without winning) in major events like the Jim Dandy and Travers will establish FoF near the top of the division. As Andy said, if he come up short in the Jim Dandy, the King's Bishop is a fallback option and hat is a serious "stallion makers" race. As a horse owned by the breeder (who also campaigned and, I think still owns the sire and dam) establishing this horse's level within his crop might be more important that sweping the Triple.
In a perfect world, I'd love to see FoF have a try at a 1 turn mile at Belmont or even a race like the 2 turn Long Branch at MTH, before the Jim Dandy, but they just don't run them like that any more.
I don't think that Kimmel is snubbing or "dissing" the NY program, but he's right, graded races are "bigger and better" than restricted stakes. He's got a colt he thinks is graded quality. If he were hiding him away in the statebred races everyone would be wailing about him not testing the colt.

[parsixfarms]

The payoff in winning certain races is not the purses. It is partly the prestige but mostly in creating a sire. In this horse's case that not only has the obvious financial rewards, but also as a homebred, it has great cache.

I don't know how much cache Friend or Foe would likely have as a sire. However, since he is a homebred, major stakes placings by Friend or Foe would further help the value of the female members of this family, many of which are members of the Bromans' broodmare band and from which they have already sold several pricey yearlings/2YOs.

[RolloTomasi]

I don't know how much cache Friend or Foe would likely have as a sire. However, since he is a homebred, major stakes placings by Friend or Foe would further help the value of the female members of this family, many of which are members of the Bromans' broodmare band and from which they have already sold several pricey yearlings/2YOs.

Not saying he's a major stallion, but didn't Friend of Foe's own sire follow a similar projected career act when he raced?

Friends Lake could do worse than standing at Airdrie in KY.

[parsixfarms]

Not saying he's a major stallion, but didn't Friend of Foe's own sire follow a similar projected career act when he raced?

Friends Lake could do worse than standing at Airdrie in KY.

I don't disagree with anything you said, but the market has changed dramatically from the time Friends Lake went to the breeding shed and now. Friends Lake is probably on his way to a regional market unless his fortunes change dramatically and soon.

If a horse like Eskendereya, by a sire like Giant's Causeway, is only worth $5-10 million as a stallion prospect, it's hard to imagine Friend or Foe being particularly appealing as a son of Friends Lake. Friends Lake had the benefit of being by A.P. Indy out a Grade I winning mare. Friend or Foe would have neither of those attributes in his corner.

[RolloTomasi]

I don't disagree with anything you said, but the market has changed dramatically from the time Friends Lake went to the breeding shed and now. Friends Lake is probably on his way to a regional market unless his fortunes change dramatically and soon.

If a horse like Eskendereya, by a sire like Giant's Causeway, is only worth $5-10 million as a stallion prospect, it's hard to imagine Friend or Foe being particularly appealing as a son of Friends Lake. Friends Lake had the benefit of being by A.P. Indy out a Grade I winning mare. Friend or Foe would have neither of those attributes in his corner.

That's fair enough. Given your point about his pedigree, I would think that Friend Or Foe would have to exceed the accomplishments of his sire dramatically to have a shot at a KY farm.

[blackthroatedwind]

I don't know how much cache Friend or Foe would likely have as a sire. However, since he is a homebred, major stakes placings by Friend or Foe would further help the value of the female members of this family, many of which are members of the Bromans' broodmare band and from which they have already sold several pricey yearlings/2YOs.


I agree with all of this.

What I meant ( and I realize my post/points were jumbled ) was that it would sort of have cache for the owners....that is having a homebred stallion. i.e. it would be cool for them.

[blackthroatedwind]

That's fair enough. Given your point about his pedigree, I would think that Friend Or Foe would have to exceed the accomplishments of his sire dramatically to have a shot at a KY farm.

That wouldn't be too hard.

[Linny]

I agree with all of this.

What I meant ( and I realize my post/points were jumbled ) was that it would sort of have cache for the owners....that is having a homebred stallion. i.e. it would be cool for them.

Not only that but sired by a homebred stallion. I think that Broman still has an ownership interest in Friends Lake.

"I would think that Friend Or Foe would have to exceed the accomplishments of his sire dramatically to have a shot at a KY farm."
I wouldn't be too hard to do but he certainly won't do it within the NY Triple.

[Benny Leger]

Despite running a little green in the stretch, this horse looked awfully good to me yesterday. Don't know what the BSF for the race was, but had to be real close to triple digits. If it were me...I'd follow Andy's suggestion and stretch him out in the Jim Dandy and see what happens. RM said he galloped out a strong 3/8ths after the wire without a problem. Seems to me he's earned the right to try open company on a big stage.