selling picks

[disappearingdan_akaplaya]

well some may agree or disagree but i have ZERO respect for people who sell picks and none also for the people who buy them. if you are good enough to make a profit over a long haul then you do not need to sell picks, bottom line!.... and well if you are doing it"out of the good of your heart" then well you wouldnt charge any1 anything. im a pretty proficient handicapper myself and ive given out alotta winners to friends and people at the track as well as winners on this board and ive never asked, expected, or taken a dime from any1 whos made money off my picks. again some may agree or disagree just the way i feel

[jpops757]

well some may agree or disagree but i have ZERO respect for people who sell picks and none also for the people who buy them. if you are good enough to make a profit over a long haul then you do not need to sell picks, bottom line!.... and well if you are doing it"out of the good of your heart" then well you wouldnt charge any1 anything. im a pretty proficient handicapper myself and ive given out alotta winners to friends and people at the track as well as winners on this board and ive never asked, expected, or taken a dime from any1 whos made money off my picks. again some may agree or disagree just the way i feel
I have a similar opinion. Idont frequent this boad to get tickets to build my bets. I like to get info, not necessarly picks. Everyone need to make a living and if selling picks is there cup of tea more power to them. Im sure there are suckers out there that will pay for them. It appears that some are attempting to use this board for advertising of a product that they are attempting to sell. This board is begining to look more like roller derby or pro rasslin. I will continue to observe and make an occosional post. I am a horseracing fan and I dont have to cash tickets to keep being a fan. My ability to cash a ticket is a reward for me but not a necesity. There is a lot of knowledge here and if some feel we need to pay them for it so be it.

[westcoastinvader]

Cripes, people have been selling hard copy picks "real time" at the tracks for years.

Decades.

I personally never like to "tout," cause I never want anyone to lose money on my advice in case I am wrong. I'd be happy to share in advance, if I knew it was a "lock."

Of course, it's never a "lock."

I do like to hear and read what others predict, though.

I did realize a long long time ago that the TV prognosticators are right less often than I am. The newspaper guys, too.

But, I still like hear and read them.

[disappearingdan_akaplaya]

I have a similar opinion. Idont frequent this boad to get tickets to build my bets. I like to get info, not necessarly picks. Everyone need to make a living and if selling picks is there cup of tea more power to them. Im sure there are suckers out there that will pay for them. It appears that some are attempting to use this board for advertising of a product that they are attempting to sell. This board is begining to look more like roller derby or pro rasslin. I will continue to observe and make an occosional post. I am a horseracing fan and I dont have to cash tickets to keep being a fan. My ability to cash a ticket is a reward for me but not a necesity. There is a lot of knowledge here and if some feel we need to pay them for it so be it.

well i still dont condone selling picks under any circumstances, and i also dont feel sorry whatsoever to somebody whos idiotic enough to pay for picks and then cries when they lose their money

[GPK]

well i still dont condone selling picks under any circumstances, and i also dont feel sorry whatsoever to somebody whos idiotic enough to pay for picks and then cries when they lose their money


John!!!!! Even the Terror of Tampa Bay!!!!! You wouldn't buy his touts???? He is unreal at giving out winners there:D

[disappearingdan_akaplaya]

lol no and speaking of tampa thats why me and MRBSAYS who passed away came to differences towards the end of his life..becuase he sold picks! kev i gave you gambler's prize over a week in advance this past january at turfway. he paid 26 bucks and i think you said you didnt get to bet the horse but had you did i wouldnta wanted a dime from you

[Skip away]

I agree totally disapperaingdan. People who sell tips need to reinvent themselves and find a real career. They must be real hard up. Imagine paying for information only to lose, when you could have just lost on your own thoughts? Kind of silly if you ask me. :D

[GPK]

lol no and speaking of tampa thats why me and MRBSAYS who passed away came to differences towards the end of his life..becuase he sold picks! kev i gave you gambler's prize over a week in advance this past january at turfway. he paid 26 bucks and i think you said you didnt get to bet the horse but had you did i wouldnta wanted a dime from you

Johnny...you know I would NEVER ever consider sellings my picks. My handicapping isn't good enough for one reason. Another, that ain't my style. You know me better.

[Seattleallstar]

kev, you paid for my picks before and made yourself a forutne with them

[Downthestretch55]

LMFAO!!!!!!
There's a line of guys outside the main gate at Toga every day!
They sell them cheap. I'm not kidding!
If that's the niche you get out of it, fine with me....join the line.
Many times, their capping is much worse than mine. More LOL!

I'd just rather pick my own.
At least I'm going with someone I can trust...and it's more of a thrill.
I don't need "beer money" that badly.

To each his own...use "expertise" to help yourself, or join the line of whores outside the gate that don't even bet their picks. LOL!

DTS

[Skip away]

Isnt that the whole point of following this crazy game? Why would you pay somebody else to have the fun part, which is picking the horses?

If you wanted to make money, theres this thing called getting a job. Theres also this thing called the stock market, which is a lot better to make money in the long run than trying to guess on horses.

These guys selling their picks are basically guessing.

[Cajungator26]

Isnt that the whole point of following this crazy game? Why would you pay somebody else to have the fun part, which is picking the horses?

If you wanted to make money, theres this thing called getting a job. Theres also this thing called the stock market, which is a lot better to make money in the long run than trying to guess on horses.

These guys selling their picks are basically guessing.

The stock market is a guessing game too... UNLESS you know a good advisor. :p

[Seattleallstar]

that would be me caj

[Skip away]

Over the long haul it is a lot safer than playing horses. Not necessarily as fun but safer if you have half a brain. :eek:

[Secretariat]

who wants to buy my belmont picks, please sign up here.:rolleyes:

[disappearingdan_akaplaya]

Johnny...you know I would NEVER ever consider sellings my picks. My handicapping isn't good enough for one reason. Another, that ain't my style. You know me better.


kev i know you wouldnt maybe you misunderstood i was never trying to insist that you would. have some confidence in yourself tho from what ive saw your handicapping skills arent bad at all and you have a huge passion for the sport. no matter how good you get at it the best advice i can give you is to stay humble and always remember in this game no matter how much you know theres always more to learn everyday even if youre the giant killer allan jerkins

[chromer]

Anyone ever have this experience?

At Santa Anita/Hollywood Park back in the 80's it was a regular experience while walking back to your car to find alleged "tout sheets" strewn about like trash after the 5th race.

Amazingly they would all seem to have the cold exacta in whichever race paid the most. And usually the daily double (only available on the 1st and 2nd races back then). They weren't stupid either. They would put a few losers in. Races 6-9 were always chalk plays.

I don't know who fell for this scam but even if 1/100 did that was more sales for the tout whenever the sucker returned.

This was back when you could buy tout sheets just inside the entrance to any SoCal track. They don't sell them anymore and amazingly the parking lots are a lot cleaner these days.

[Thunder Gulch]

There are a lot of guys too proud to buy information that never win at anything. Consider it like having a good stock broker, same thing to me. Now I'm not big on horse touts- that is really tough because it is based on value, which is a moving target. However, I've used a couple of sports pros for 10 years and make money all the time while the guys that scoff at paying for information put the bookies in new cars every football season.
I handicap races for myself, but I play horses for recreation, and while I expect to win, I'm smart enough to know that it is a very tough game to beat and the work required to be a winner isn't compatible with my family and career.

[oracle80]

Playa and all,
Tip sheets have never been worth the paper that they are printed on. Several reasons why. First of all in order to market these sheets you have to print them or get them online the day before the actual races that are being played, this is why they are no good. The day before the races you have no idea what track conditions will be, can't think of anything more important than that. Secondly, late scratches are an absolute necessity when putting forth proper analysis. Late scratches can affect pace scenarios, rendering your initial analysis futile. For example, you handicap a race and expect a three horse speed duel which will set it up for a closer, one of the three horses scratches, now you conclude that the duel might not be as hot, and that the two speeds will go around the track together.

The information that is worth paying for is clocker info an trip notes and bias notes. Many who are "weekend warriors" do not get to see wekday races or simply don't have the time or memory to keep track of biases and trips at a lot of tracks. How much is it worth to pull up information about how a track was playing on a given day? Dead rails, speed biased good rails, bad trips that don't get the comment lines in the DRF charts that they deserve, etc.
Lets take a horse like Joint Effort this past saturday, the knowledge that her last number was accomplished on a dead rail was enough to push some folks oveer the top and bet her big. WIthout that knowledge it may have been a coin toss in a lot of folks minds between her and Pletcher's horse.
Its the subtleties that aren't in the DRF that make a difference these days in playing. Most people don't have the time or put in the effort to keep such notes, and truly benefit from that type of data and information, not from selectiosn made on tip sheet 36 hours before the race.

[tap]

Great post oracle, and 100% accurate.

[tap]

When I am putting horses up on this board that I am going to play I am sweating bullets to get them posted in time. the reason for this is I am trying to squeeze every drop of info that I can. Waiting for the inevitable added scratch after scratches have been put up. Monitoring the weather to try and predict if a rogue thunderstorm is going to come through and drop a 1/2 of rain on the turf course at 2:30 in the afternoon etc. etc. And in spite of our best efforts, odds, circumstances, and fate will change as soon as the gate is sprung.

[oracle80]

thats right tap, me too. In addition, just posting who you like doesnt exactly get you in the analysis hall of fame.
Its the info you provide and reasons that you like or dislike ceratin horses that is really valuable. It may trigger an "oh yeah!!! that rail was dead!!!" response in someone who was between two horses.
I'm not gonna be posting any more analysis or selections though. Has lead to too many arguments. Its just too hard to put that kind of effort into doing something and using info from trainers and clockers as well, to get nothing back but grief.

[oracle80]

I agree Moni, tip sheets are junk and worthless.

[tap]

Oracle, I certainly understand why you feel the way you do with regard to not posting selections and or analysis anymore, but I would say to you to also consider the positives when weighing your decision. Think about the satisfaction you have knowing you helped someone score on a horse, or watching your analysis of the race unfold just as you predicted. Think about the thank you posts that you get on this board or elsewhere from people who are genuinely appreciative.

On the subject of analysis it is a dual edged sword for me. For years we have had the writers and cappers (drf, Computer Cappers, tip sheets) who have specialized in the one line analogy, i.e. gets top jock today, trainer is deadly second off the claim, should have favorable pace scenario today, etc. All valid factors and legitimate analysis of a horse's attributes in a race. Then we have some cappers, (many on this board) who give thoughtful, extensive and extroadinary analysis that would be worthy of a book IMO. But what happens when you have that late scratch that changes the pace scenario? or the race comes off the grass late? Most people who do not follow racing will not understand these changing factors and if you try to explain to them what happened after the race it will appear to them as if you are making excuses.

As you pointed out in your earlier post how do you give worthy analysis of a race with out waiting long enough to consider any late developing factors? And if you wait long enough how do you get it posted in time? I admire the people that can, but for me it is a time constraint thing. I simply do not have enough time to give the analysis I would like and would not want to just come up with something half hearted so to speak. Anyway I hope you reconsider your decision not to put up selections or analysis as many here really enjoy them.

[oracle80]

Oracle, I certainly understand why you feel the way you do with regard to not posting selections and or analysis anymore, but I would say to you to also consider the positives when weighing your decision. Think about the satisfaction you have knowing you helped someone score on a horse, or watching your analysis of the race unfold just as you predicted. Think about the thank you posts that you get on this board or elsewhere from people who are genuinely appreciative.

On the subject of analysis it is a dual edged sword for me. For years we have had the writers and cappers (drf, Computer Cappers, tip sheets) who have specialized in the one line analogy, i.e. gets top jock today, trainer is deadly second off the claim, should have favorable pace scenario today, etc. All valid factors and legitimate analysis of a horse's attributes in a race. Then we have some cappers, (many on this board) who give thoughtful, extensive and extroadinary analysis that would be worthy of a book IMO. But what happens when you have that late scratch that changes the pace scenario? or the race comes off the grass late? Most people who do not follow racing will not understand these changing factors and if you try to explain to them what happened after the race it will appear to them as if you are making excuses.

As you pointed out in your earlier thread how do you give worthy analysis of a race with out waiting long enough to consider any late developing factors? And if you wait long enough how do you get it posted in time? I admire the people that can, but for me it is a time constraint thing. I simply do not have enough time to give the analysis I would like and would not want to just come up with something half hearted so to speak. Anyway I hope you reconsider your decision not to put up selections or analysis as many here really enjoy them.


Perhaps on email I will create a list of receivers who wish to receive it.

[tap]

By the way this was a great subject for a thread.

[tap]

Perhaps on email I will create a list of receivers who wish to receive it.

There you go my man! Excellent idea.

[BillinCT]

Let me preface this by saying that we have never met. But as someone who is newer to the the game I have found your insight very useful and educational. For example I now transcribe my TG sheet numbers in red to the racing form as you have suggested to other posters. I am sure there are others like myself who are not as comfortable posting their picks, but use your analysis to check out a horse we may have overlooked or for tips to construct a pick 3 or 4 ticket. Just to let you know your opinions are apreciated. That is one of the reasons that I frequent this Board. Thanks

[Skip away]

:D :o :rolleyes: :p

[oracle80]

Let me preface this by saying that we have never met. But as someone who is newer to the the game I have found your insight very useful and educational. For example I now transcribe my TG sheet numbers in red to the racing form as you have suggested to other posters. I am sure there are others like myself who are not as comfortable posting their picks, but use your analysis to check out a horse we may have overlooked or for tips to construct a pick 3 or 4 ticket. Just to let you know your opinions are apreciated. That is one of the reasons that I frequent this Board. Thanks
Thanks, and its hard for me to ever down a request from anyone for anything. I will create and email list. Its just that the agenting work overlaps with race analysis and watching races(obviously). WHen IM gonna analyze a days races(do ususally 4 tracks) teh prep workl and number transcribing alone is two hours or three. Thats not even including the analyzing of the races once that is done.Ad of course speaking with my friend teh clocker about the 1sters. Writing it up in an intelligent manner takes a while as well. I've tried to keep the suggested plays on pik-3's and pik-4s to a cheap enough amount that anyone casually playing could play them. I myself will spread out a race more than I post sometimes in realitym but I assume that not everyone wants to spend 200 bucks ona pik-4 ticket. If posting this stuff is going to cause any problems here, its just not worth it for anyone. I came up with the signature line below based on a few complaints froom the weekend. LOL!! It just seemd fitting.

[dr. fager]

I can definitely see your point, no reason to constantly be on the defensive around here.

In a way, I guess the people who do appreciate it aren't as quick to speak out as the haters, and that's not right. I haven't met you either, but you've helped me a few times and always would answer any question I had. And I do appreciate it. I haven't played since the new board, but the one tip I still follow from the espn board was the highlighting of the form first, and then going back through, it has helped me not miss things.

Anyway...just thought I'd put that out there.

[Pointg5]

I can definitely see your point, no reason to constantly be on the defensive around here.

In a way, I guess the people who do appreciate it aren't as quick to speak out as the haters, and that's not right. I haven't met you either, but you've helped me a few times and always would answer any question I had. And I do appreciate it. I haven't played since the new board, but the one tip I still follow from the espn board was the highlighting of the form first, and then going back through, it has helped me not miss things.

Anyway...just thought I'd put that out there.

Yep, I use that as well and when I have Thoros, copy them, takes forever, but very helpful. I don't know how you do that for 4 tracks a day Oracle, I would go crazy. It was great advice though...

[BillinCT]

I can certainly understand that you have other responsibilties and priorities, but whatever information you can throw our way is appreciated. Good luck!

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

Thanks, and its hard for me to ever down a request from anyone for anything. I will create and email list. Its just that the agenting work overlaps with race analysis and watching races(obviously). WHen IM gonna analyze a days races(do ususally 4 tracks) teh prep workl and number transcribing alone is two hours or three. Thats not even including the analyzing of the races once that is done.Ad of course speaking with my friend teh clocker about the 1sters. Writing it up in an intelligent manner takes a while as well. I've tried to keep the suggested plays on pik-3's and pik-4s to a cheap enough amount that anyone casually playing could play them. I myself will spread out a race more than I post sometimes in realitym but I assume that not everyone wants to spend 200 bucks ona pik-4 ticket. If posting this stuff is going to cause any problems here, its just not worth it for anyone. I came up with the signature line below based on a few complaints froom the weekend. LOL!! It just seemd fitting.
i havent seen any complaints.....if a harty good job is ok than why not post them.......

[tap]

Yeah, if the email thing is to much trouble than just keep putting it up on the board. The nay sayers be damned!

[oracle80]

Hooves what is a "harty good job'? I can usually decipher Hoovese, but you got me on that one. lol

[Cajungator26]

I can certainly understand that you have other responsibilties and priorities, but whatever information you can throw our way is appreciated. Good luck!

I second that. I'm not a huge player (don't have the $$ to play with the big boys), but I respect O's judgement on the ponies when it comes to gambling for sure.

[disappearingdan_akaplaya]

I can definitely see your point, no reason to constantly be on the defensive around here.

In a way, I guess the people who do appreciate it aren't as quick to speak out as the haters, and that's not right. I haven't met you either, but you've helped me a few times and always would answer any question I had. And I do appreciate it. I haven't played since the new board, but the one tip I still follow from the espn board was the highlighting of the form first, and then going back through, it has helped me not miss things.

Anyway...just thought I'd put that out there.


i hope the"hater" comment wasnt directed at me since im the one who started this thread. again i have zero respect for those who sell picks.......nothing short of pond scum! if you dont like my opinion well sorry too bad for you. and also again i dont feel sorry for any FOOL who buys picks and loses their money, you deserve what you get

[dr. fager]

i hope the"hater" comment wasnt directed at me since im the one who started this thread. again i have zero respect for those who sell picks.......nothing short of pond scum! if you dont like my opinion well sorry too bad for you. and also again i dont feel sorry for any FOOL who buys picks and loses their money, you deserve what you get


Playa, no...not at all. The people that are posting his picks elsewhere and giving him grief, just happened to be on this thread. I'm hbgbswanson from espn....

[Cajungator26]

i hope the"hater" comment wasnt directed at me since im the one who started this thread. again i have zero respect for those who sell picks.......nothing short of pond scum! if you dont like my opinion well sorry too bad for you. and also again i dont feel sorry for any FOOL who buys picks and loses their money, you deserve what you get

He doesn't like selling picks either... he was saying that Oracle should continue to post his picks on the board, even if the "haters" don't like it. He made no mention of the original title to this thread.

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

Hooves what is a "hearty good job'? I can usually decipher Hoovese, but you got me on that one. lol
if a simple thank you is good enough than why not post them..

[disappearingdan_akaplaya]

He doesn't like selling picks either... he was saying that Oracle should continue to post his picks on the board, even if the "haters" don't like it. He made no mention of the original title to this thread.


well cajun ive never discouraged people posting their picks. i used to post mine all the time the first few years i was on the board(espn) and alotta those picks including many for whole cards had positive results. i thought the previous place i mentioned always lacked one thing win or lose when picks were posted and thats why people liked a particular horse in a respective race and not enough comparison with people who were also handicapping the same races.

the last thing cajun im trying to do here is fight with any1

[tap]

i hope the"hater" comment wasnt directed at me since im the one who started this thread. again i have zero respect for those who sell picks.......nothing short of pond scum! if you dont like my opinion well sorry too bad for you. and also again i dont feel sorry for any FOOL who buys picks and loses their money, you deserve what you get

Agree 100%. And again, great idea for a thread.

[dr. fager]

Agree 100%. And again, great idea for a thread.

again, my post had nothing to do with the thread title, there is a post on the bottom of page 2 that everyone apparently is missing...lol

[Cajungator26]

again, my post had nothing to do with the thread title, there is a post on the bottom of page 2 that everyone apparently is missing...lol

I think that this thread got off topic. LMAO

[tap]

again, my post had nothing to do with the thread title, there is a post on the bottom of page 2 that everyone apparently is missing...lol

I know. Was not directing anything towards you. I think we are starting to spin out of control.

[eurobounce]

Information I would pay for is how the horse looked in his last two works. I just dont want the time. I want the time, if he worked in company; who was the other horse, did he finish in front or behind the company, how did he look after the work, did he eat his food, how did he look cooling out etc etc. Give me this information and I will buy it. Watching works and race replays are the two most important tools in handicapping. Watching works led me to bet Lemons Forever and Sunriver. WORKS WORKS WORKS is what I want.

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

Information I would pay for is how the horse looked in his last two works. I just dont want the time. I want the time, if he worked in company; who was the other horse, did he finish in front or behind the company, how did he look after the work, did he eat his food, how did he look cooling out etc etc. Give me this information and I will buy it. Watching works and race replays are the two most important tools in handicapping. Watching works led me to bet Lemons Forever and Sunriver. WORKS WORKS WORKS is what I want.
nice call on lemons...had the super and put lemons in the wrong spot..

[Cajungator26]

Information I would pay for is how the horse looked in his last two works. I just dont want the time. I want the time, if he worked in company; who was the other horse, did he finish in front or behind the company, how did he look after the work, did he eat his food, how did he look cooling out etc etc. Give me this information and I will buy it. Watching works and race replays are the two most important tools in handicapping. Watching works led me to bet Lemons Forever and Sunriver. WORKS WORKS WORKS is what I want.

It led me to Lemons Forever as well... it also led me to Hemingway's Key in the Preakness. I thought (based upon how he was working), that he looked much the best out of the longshots. The only bad thing about taking another person's advice on how the horse looked is that you would have to trust that person's judgement. Some people may think that (for example), SNS looked great working before the derby, but some others said he looked like crap. I would want to have the same judgement on horses if I was going to pay for that info.

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

common mike , dont take your ball and go home..im sure lots of people here would love to hear what you have to say...no haters here.. but in the end if you dont deem us worthy then so be it..many others have good info and capping skills also....i can learn from many here and have an open mind about it...and byks info is steller also..

[Skip away]

Pochman will soon be on as well. Not sure if he is allowed to be as public with his info as he works for DRF. But he will hopefully chime in. :D