10/3 (BEL): JCGC, Hirsch, Beldame, Flower Bowl, Vosburgh (G1's)

[Kasept]

6TH (3:23) Beldame S. (G1)

1 1/8 Miles | Fillies and Mares | 3 Year Olds And Up Stakes | Purse: $600,000

1 Music Note Maragh R 123 L
2 Captain's Lover (SAF) Velazquez J R 123 L
3 Unbridled Belle Dominguez R A 123 Blk-Off L
4 Copper State Bridgmohan S X 123 L
5 With Flying Colors Castellano J J 123 Blk-Off L

A-Coupled: Captain's Lover (SAF) and Unbridled Belle



7TH (3:59) Vosburgh S. (G1)

6 Furlongs | Open | 3 Year Olds And Up Stakes | Purse: $400,000

1 Go Go Shoot Maragh R 124 L
2 Peace Chant Desormeaux K J 124 L
3 Munnings Velazquez J R 122 L
4 Kodiak Kowboy Bridgmohan S X 124 L
5 Fabulous Strike Dominguez R A 124 L



8TH (4:35) Flower Bowl Invitational S. (G1)

1 1/4 Miles (Inner turf) | Fillies and Mares | 3 Year Olds And Up Stakes | Purse: $600,000

1 Leamington Prado E S 119 L
2 Pure Clan Leparoux J R 121 L
3 Dynaforce Desormeaux K J 123 L
4 Criticism (GB) Castellano J J 121 L
5 Carribean Sunset (IRE) Dominguez R A 119 L
6 Beauty O' Gwaun (IRE) Dominguez R A 115 Blk-On FTL
7 Queen of Hearts Espinoza J L 119 L
8 Moneycantbuymelove (IRE) Spencer J P 115 FTL

A-Coupled: Carribean Sunset (IRE) and Beauty O' Gwaun (IRE)



9TH (5:09) Joe Hirsch Turf Classic Invitational S. (G1)

1 1/2 Miles (Turf) | Open | 3 Year Olds And Up Stakes | Purse: $600,000

1 Interpatation Albarado R J 126 L
2 Al Khali Desormeaux K J 121 L
3 Telling Castellano J J 126 L
4 Musketier (GER) Prado E S 126 L
5 Gio Ponti Dominguez R A 126 L
6 Winchester Dominguez R A 126 L
7 Ready's Echo Velazquez J R 126 L
8 Presious Passion Trujillo E 126 L
9 Grand Couturier (GB) Garcia Alan 126 L

A-Coupled: Gio Ponti and Winchester



10TH (5:43) Jockey Club Gold Cup S. (G1)

1 1/4 Miles | Open | 3 Year Olds And Up Stakes | Purse: $750,000

1 Sette E Mezzo Dominguez R A 126 L
2 Macho Again Albarado R J 126 L
3 Summer Bird Desormeaux K J 122 L
4 Tizway Maragh R 126 L
5 Asiatic Boy (ARG) Garcia Alan 126 Blk-On L
6 Dry Martini Prado E S 126 L
7 Quality Road Velazquez J R 122 L

[Sightseek]

Why do they continue to couple entries?!?

[jms62]

The usual 5 horse fields in a grade 1... Make that a 4 betting Interest and 5 Betting Interest. I guess they will blame the economy when they miss their numbers not the product they are giving us.

[knickslions2]

Nice gold cup!:$: :$:

[DaTruth]

The usual 5 horse fields in a grade 1... Make that a 4 betting Interest and 5 Betting Interest. I guess they will blame the economy when they miss their numbers not the product they are giving us.

You really can't blame NYRA. It isn't their fault if folks don't want to run for a $600,000 purse.

[SniperSB23]

You really can't blame NYRA. It isn't their fault if folks don't want to run for a $600,000 purse.

It's strictly based on the Breeders Cup. Does anyone think if the BC wasn't on synthetic that Mine that Bird would be in the Goodwood instead of the JCGC? Or that Icon Project would go to the Spinster instead of the Beldame?

[RockHardTen1985]

It's strictly based on the Breeders Cup. Does anyone think if the BC wasn't on synthetic that Mine that Bird would be in the Goodwood instead of the JCGC? Or that Icon Project would go to the Spinster instead of the Beldame?
TRUE....

[parsixfarms]

It's strictly based on the Breeders Cup.

The real problem is that there are only so many horses to go around. With everything rendered essentially a Breeders Cup prep, you have a race in almost every division in NY, KY and CA each of the next two weeks. Then add in races like the Cotillion, Indiana Derby, the Calder 2YO races, Canadian International, EP Taylor, the Hawthorne Gold Cup and the Meadowlands Cup, and it's no wonder that the talent is spread thin. Aside from Icon Project and Mine That Bird, are there any other horses "prepping" out west that would otherwise be in NY on Saturday? And even if those horses were here, it's not like the card would be significantly better from a wagering perspective.

[the_fat_man]

The real problem is that there are only so many horses to go around. With everything rendered essentially a Breeders Cup prep, you have a race in almost every division in NY, KY and CA each of the next two weeks. Then add in races like the Cotillion, Indiana Derby, the Calder 2YO races, Canadian International, EP Taylor, the Hawthorne Gold Cup and the Meadowlands Cup, and it's no wonder that the talent is spread thin. Aside from Icon Project and Mine That Bird, are there any other horses "prepping" out west that would otherwise be in NY on Saturday? And even if those horses were here, it's not like the card would be significantly better from a wagering perspective.

Buh Buh Buh But

This is the only meet where G1 DIRT races are being offered. (Or so I hear on the NYRA show.)

EVERYBODY knows that DIRT is superior to the other surfaces, don't they? And, it then follows that EVERYONE would be in NY running for G1 money on the dirt, right?

Horses really shouldn't be running on POLY, right?:rolleyes:

Yeah, the HUGE fields at BEL really bear this out.

NYRA and its whipped DIRT followers will soon realize that times are changing.

Maybe they'll take another race off the turf tomorrow. Yippee.

[SniperSB23]

The real problem is that there are only so many horses to go around. With everything rendered essentially a Breeders Cup prep, you have a race in almost every division in NY, KY and CA each of the next two weeks. Then add in races like the Cotillion, Indiana Derby, the Calder 2YO races, Canadian International, EP Taylor, the Hawthorne Gold Cup and the Meadowlands Cup, and it's no wonder that the talent is spread thin. Aside from Icon Project and Mine That Bird, are there any other horses "prepping" out west that would otherwise be in NY on Saturday? And even if those horses were here, it's not like the card would be significantly better from a wagering perspective.

Bullsbay was going to the Goodwood before injury. Rachel would certainly be on this card if the BC was on dirt. I have to imagine that the Vosburgh would have a much larger field, the Forego had 12 horses and the King's Bishop had 9. You are right that there are way too many races but the BC being on synthetics this year is certainly playing a part in the weak card on Saturday with horses wanting to prep on synthetics and horses not racing this weekend cause they have no interest in running in a BC on synthetics.

[King Glorious]

I think it's more the number of races than the surface. As Parsix says, there aren't a lot of horses that are running in other areas that you could say for certainty would be in NY if the BC wasn't on synthetic.

Isn't Awesome Gem a California based runner? He's running in the Hawthorne Gold Cup. I just think it's a matter of so many races and spots to chose from that people look for easy ones, an obvious exception being Cocoa Beach going to take on Zenyatta but even that comes because of the stable having so many horses looking at the same races.

[parsixfarms]

Bullsbay was going to the Goodwood before injury. Rachel would certainly be on this card if the BC was on dirt. I have to imagine that the Vosburgh would have a much larger field, the Forego had 12 horses and the King's Bishop had 9. You are right that there are way too many races but the BC being on synthetics this year is certainly playing a part in the weak card on Saturday with horses wanting to prep on synthetics and horses not racing this weekend cause they have no interest in running in a BC on synthetics.

In several of the races in NY this weekend, the pro tem division leaders are racing. With all the other options, why bang your head against the likes of Summer Bird, Gio Ponti, Macho Again and Fabulous Strike when you can go to other locales and run against weaker fields for good money.

When Zenyatta shows up in the Lady's Secret, they'll probably have a short field; same thing is likely when Icon Project and Forever Together run at Keeneland next weekend.

One thing about the Vosburgh: I wish that they would return it to 7F. It was a far more interesting race when contested at 7F than it has been since shortened to 6F to coincide with the distance of the BC Sprint.

[jms62]

It's strictly based on the Breeders Cup. Does anyone think if the BC wasn't on synthetic that Mine that Bird would be in the Goodwood instead of the JCGC? Or that Icon Project would go to the Spinster instead of the Beldame?

True to a point however NYRA has to share responsibility for not putting pressure on trainers to enter a few horses to get fields of more than 4 and 5 horses. They can't even offer a Super...A cheap claimer can stagger home for 3rd money. The incentive awards at Toga seemed to work. Also, is it just me but the this years version of Beldame seems like a race I have seen over and over same horses battling it out.

[Kasept]

True to a point however NYRA has to share responsibility for not putting pressure on trainers to enter a few horses to get fields of more than 4 and 5 horses. They can't even offer a Super...A cheap claimer can stagger home for 3rd money. The incentive awards at Toga seemed to work. Also, is it just me but the this years version of Beldame seems like a race I have seen over and over same horses battling it out.
You don't think stakes coordinator Andrew Byrne and PJ Campo were hustling to get every possible nominee and entrant they could for these races? The incentive awards? These are Grade I stakes and among the most important of their kind. Running in them is its' own incentive. And while runners get a 50% rebate on the fee for passing the entry box, it still costs owners money to run in these races. Instead of the blind and idol claim that nothing was done to fill the entry box better, I'd love to hear the names of the horses that were appropriate for these spots. And since they only pay for the top five finishers, who exactly of those staggering cheap claimers from those forthcoming lists were going to finish ahead of the Beldame or Vosburgh runners?

The filly/mare main track (Beldame) and sprint (Vos) division races were impacted by the glut of similar stakes on the schedule around the country and the synthetic track opportunities for same in a year where the Breeders Cup is being run on a synthetic track. And it must be just you that feels like the Beldame runners have been banging heads repeatedly, because among Music Note, the Team Valor pair, Copper State and With Flying Colors, only Copper State and Unbridled Belle have ever been in the same race: the 2008 Obeah.

[GPK]

Nice to see Interpatation in over his head...yet again:rolleyes:

I don't get. What happened to horses being spotted where they have a actual shot of winning?:confused:

[Coach Pants]

They should cancel all 5 of them and run 5 claiming turf sprints.

[jms62]

You don't think stakes coordinator Andrew Byrne and PJ Campo were hustling to get every possible nominee and entrant they could for these races?
Steve I can only comment on the result and not the attempt. And the result of 4 and 5 horse grade 1 fields is on a regular basis is truly pathetic.

Instead of the blind and idol claim that nothing was done to fill the entry box better, I'd love to hear the names of the horses that were appropriate for these spots. And since they only pay for the top five finishers, who exactly of those staggering cheap claimers from those forthcoming lists were going to finish ahead of the Beldame or Vosburgh runners?

I don't have the answers and it is not my job to find the answers. I am simply Joe Public; a consumer of their product and 4 / 5 horse graded stakes on a regular basis in my opinion is a piss poor product. As customer it is of no interest to me the reasons why. In any other business those that fail to deliver the desired results are replaced by others who could or who you think could. Eventually you find someone who does or your business fails.

And it must be just you that feels like because among Music Note, the Team Valor pair, Copper State and With Flying Colors, only Copper State and Unbridled Belle have ever been in the same race: the 2008 Obeah

:wf I stand corrected, I guess its the 4 horse fields that are Ground Hog Day to me. :wf

Racing is truly a funny business. IT is the only business that attacks its customers when they complain about the product and then wonders why they
are losing customers. Still love the show.

[GPK]

I sort of know the connections..They just can't help themselves. It's all about the glamour and nothing about winning the race to them. Although he will suck up for third or fourth occasionally


Kinda sad Bob. Whats he got? 5 wins from 45 or so starts? Clearly Grade I calibur:rolleyes:

[Gander]

Kinda sad Bob. Whats he got? 5 wins from 45 or so starts? Clearly Grade I calibur:rolleyes:

I thought about Interpreation last night. Always put in races like this where his chances are zilch. I dont know how an owner can get pleasure in watching his horse compete at a level where its obviosuly not happening. Its pretty sad actually.

[Kasept]

Racing is truly a funny business. IT is the only business that attacks its customers when they complain about the product and then wonders why they are losing customers. Still love the show.
Who's being attacked? Why is any response that answers a critique over-dramatically interpreted as an 'attack'? I provided my response and it was written without rancor.

Frankly, I don't get the complaint about 'the product'. The 'product' has been great, really, all year. Are fields stretched thin these weeks with Oak Tree, Belmont, Turfway and then Keeneland stacked up on top of each other? Yeah. Read Crist's piece about this from last weekend.

There aren't enough top horses to fill every stake.. And people have selective memories if they think every stake historically had overflow fields 10, 20, 40 and 75 years ago. They didn't. As a snapshot, Kelso was in fields of 8, 7, 6, 4 and 6 when he won his 5 straight Gold Cups in the 60's.

There are too many stakes that are similarly conditioned that are run near each other that siphon the horses, and the landscape has changed so that a place like Presque Isle Downs is a legitimate venue to run your horse if you're considering a Breeders' Cup try this year.

Why does the $750k Cotillion have to be run this week? Why shouldn't those 3yo fillies be facing off against elders already in a race like the Beldame the way Quality Road and Summer Bird are facing elders in the JCGC? (How about running the Cotillion on the Pennsylvania Derby card? It gets a little close to the Alabama, but you get the idea..)

What's really more accurate about the business of racing, is that it's a game where the customers are rarely if ever satisfied, and are constantly searching for things about which to complain. Revel in the next of a series of weekends of generally outstanding racing, instead of focusing on less than ideal circumstances of things that are hard to control in the environment as it currently exists.

The Beldame, at the last second, surprisingly lost a 6th horse that made it a very good race. As for the Vosburgh, it's a great race with the 5 it got. Generally, small stake fields are indicators of horses present that are standouts... Like Fabulous Strike, Go Go Shoot and Munnings. Get a copy of Champions and look at the field sizes of some of the famous historic races over the years. It will be an eye-opener.

[GBBob]

There is a lot of irony in a thread that combines people complaining about small fields on Saturday at Belmont while at the same time, others ( myself included) are complaining about why a horse like Interpertation is running SAturday in a GR1 at Belmont.

[GPK]

There is a lot of irony in a thread that combines people complaining about small fields on Saturday at Belmont while at the same time, others ( myself included) are complaining about why a horse like Interpertation is running SAturday in a GR1 at Belmont.

Don't get me wrong Bob...not complaining. Hell, I think it's great, because as you and I both know, there will be idiots that bet money on him. The more dumb money in the pools, the better:$:

I just think it's sad that the owners ego gets on the way of the horse being a legitimate overnight stakes or maybe GIII horse.

[jms62]

Maybe the phrase Instead of the blind and idol claim rubbed me the wrong way. ;) Tommorows graded stakes entries by betting interests. I rest my case that NYRA is simply not getting it done.
5:00 TDN(8) Ohio Derby (13)
5:15 HOO(11) Indiana Derby (12)
5:14 HAW(7) Hawthorne Gold Cup (11)
6:12 HAW(9) Robert F. Carey (9)
5:09 BEL(9) Joe Hirsch (7)
5:43 BEL(10) Jockey Cup Gold (7)
4:16 PHA(10) Fitz Dixion (6)
4:35 BEL(8) Flower Bowl (6)
3:59 BEL(7) Vosburgh (5)
3:23 BEL(6) Beldame (4)

[NTamm1215]

Steve I can only comment on the result and not the attempt. And the result of 4 and 5 horse grade 1 fields is on a regular basis is truly pathetic.



Surely you speak not of NYRA where the average betting interests in Grade I races going back to July 4 is 7.8 with only two five-horse fields in the interim (Ballerina, Ruffian).

The turf average is 9.25 but that's a tad unfair given that there's only been 4 Grade I turf races since 7/4.

NT

[Kasept]

5:00 TDN(8) Ohio Derby (13)
5:15 HOO(11) Indiana Derby (12)

These two do share 6 cross-entrants.

[NTamm1215]

These two do share 6 cross-entrants.

Not to mention that comparing restricted races to open is foolish. It also is worth mentioning that the only races that contain any good horses are at the bottom of the list.

It's a lot easier to go to Indiana and run against a couple of good horses and 9 tomato cans then to run in the JCGC and be a candidate for 4th.

NT

[jms62]

Not to mention that comparing restricted races to open is foolish. It also is worth mentioning that the only races that contain any good horses are at the bottom of the list.

It's a lot easier to go to Indiana and run against a couple of good horses and 9 tomato cans then to run in the JCGC and be a candidate for 4th.

NT

And your association with NYRA is ? Give me those averages but exclude Saratoga.
BY Dirt / Turf (Exclude MTO's)

[Kasept]

Not to mention that comparing restricted races to open is foolish. It also is worth mentioning that the only races that contain any good horses are at the bottom of the list.

It's a lot easier to go to Indiana and run against a couple of good horses and 9 tomato cans then to run in the JCGC and be a candidate for 4th.

NT
Yeah... I was starting to write a much fuller response but I'm not going to. The only race that fits the discussion is the Cotillion which could have contributed meaningfully to the Beldame. But scheduling issues are a topic for the Graded Stake Committee and Racing Secretaries Meetings to hash out. Again... everyone should read Crist's piece on this subject.

The collection of nice horses at HAW tomorrow are meaningless to Grade 1 field conversation. The Carey runners are horses that can't go in the Gr. I Shadwell Mile at KEE, and the HAW Gold Cup horses aren't good enough for the JCGC.

[Sightseek]

Yeah... I was starting to write a much fuller response but I'm not going to. The only race that fits the discussion is the Cotillion which could have contributed meaningfully to the Beldame. But scheduling issues are a topic for the Graded Stake Committee and Racing Secretaries Meetings to hash out. Again... everyone should read Crist's piece on this subject.

The collection of nice horses at HAW tomorrow are meaningless to Grade 1 field conversation. The Carey runners are horses that can't go in the Gr. I Shadwell Mile at KEE, and the HAW Gold Cup horses aren't good enough for the JCGC.

Crist's thoughts, among others, are further outlined in the Prescription For Racing that was released by TDN. Worth a read.

[NTamm1215]

And your association with NYRA is ? Give me those averages but exclude Saratoga.
BY Dirt / Turf (Exclude MTO's)

Why do I have to be associated with NYRA to think you're a chronic over-reactor whose opinion in this case is not substantiated on fact?

I am more than anything, like just about everyone here, a fan and tomorrow I'm going to watch some of the best horses in training participate. I'll take a day full of horses like Fabulous Strike, Munnings, Music Note, Gio Ponti, Grand Couturier, Macho Again, Summer Bird, and Quality Road over what is due to be a stirring stretch battle between Sumo and Misremembered or Jonesboro and Stonehouse.

NT

[NTamm1215]

Yeah... I was starting to write a much fuller response but I'm not going to. The only race that fits the discussion is the Cotillion which could have contributed meaningfully to the Beldame. But scheduling issues are a topic for the Graded Stake Committee and Racing Secretaries Meetings to hash out. Again... everyone should read Crist's piece on this subject.

The collection of nice horses at HAW tomorrow are meaningless to Grade 1 field conversation. The Carey runners are horses that can't go in the Gr. I Shadwell Mile at KEE, and the HAW Gold Cup horses aren't good enough for the JCGC.

Philly is going to make a change to their schedule next year which is going to further crowd the early fall races. The early discussion is for the Pa. Derby to be moved back to something like six weeks out of the BC and the Cotillion to be one week later.

Of course, Philly could do whatever they want when the fact of the matter is that their best day handles about 40% of what Belmont does on a Thursday.

NT

[Coach Pants]

Well the consensus is 5 horse fields are ok as long as good horses are in said fields.

At least there are competitive football games on Saturday. And I'm thankful for that because I have a choice to dvr the sport of chickens for later.

[GBBob]

Not to mention that comparing restricted races to open is foolish. It also is worth mentioning that the only races that contain any good horses are at the bottom of the list.

It's a lot easier to go to Indiana and run against a couple of good horses and 9 tomato cans then to run in the JCGC and be a candidate for 4th.

NT

You have to admit there are two different camps here..If you want to see better horses run, then the Belmont races are where you should be, but if you want the best wagering opportunities, I'll take the tomato cans.

[jms62]

Well the consensus is 5 horse fields are ok as long as good horses are in said fields.

At least there are competitive football games on Saturday. And I'm thankful for that because I have a choice to dvr the sport of chickens for later.
And those of us that think otherwise are just ****ing idiots.

[Coach Pants]

And those of us that think otherwise are just ****ing idiots.No we just lack estrogen. I mean you have to be loaded with it to enjoy a 5 horse race with 4 betting interests.

Ohh Music Note. Excuse me while I not give a ****.

[Antitrust32]

Why do I have to be associated with NYRA to think you're a chronic over-reactor whose opinion in this case is not substantiated on fact?

I am more than anything, like just about everyone here, a fan and tomorrow I'm going to watch some of the best horses in training participate. I'll take a day full of horses like Fabulous Strike, Munnings, Music Note, Gio Ponti, Grand Couturier, Macho Again, Summer Bird, and Quality Road over what is due to be a stirring stretch battle between Sumo and Misremembered or Jonesboro and Stonehouse.

NT


Have fun! Bet Macho Again :) Tomorrow I'm going to a wedding on the beach and will probably forget that horses are even racing! LOL

[Gander]

Why do I have to be associated with NYRA to think you're a chronic over-reactor whose opinion in this case is not substantiated on fact?

I am more than anything, like just about everyone here, a fan and tomorrow I'm going to watch some of the best horses in training participate. I'll take a day full of horses like Fabulous Strike, Munnings, Music Note, Gio Ponti, Grand Couturier, Macho Again, Summer Bird, and Quality Road over what is due to be a stirring stretch battle between Sumo and Misremembered or Jonesboro and Stonehouse.

NT

I'm with you on this. Tomorrow, I'll be more a fan...drink more beer, and do less gambling. I think the Vosburgh is an outstanding betting race even with just 5 going. Theres not one in there you cant make an excellent case to win.

We have all winter to bet big, non-compelling fields loaded with big pools at Gulfstream and Aqueduct.

If you dont like it, theres plenty of college football on.

[Danzig]

There is a lot of irony in a thread that combines people complaining about small fields on Saturday at Belmont while at the same time, others ( myself included) are complaining about why a horse like Interpertation is running SAturday in a GR1 at Belmont.

yes, there is. it just proves the adage that you can't please everyone.

[Gate Dancer]

Actually very excited to see the races tomorrow, regardless of the 'betting' opportunities. There are some excellent match-ups. Things seen tomorrow may help in the future regarding the Breeders Cup races. I can search for betting opportunities in plenty of other places. I'm going to appreciate the races for the competition and hopefully see a few nuggets which may be helpful come Nov 6-7.

[jms62]

Actually very excited to see the races tomorrow, regardless of the 'betting' opportunities. There are some excellent match-ups. Things seen tomorrow may help in the future regarding the Breeders Cup races. I can search for betting opportunities in plenty of other places. I'm going to appreciate the races for the competition and hopefully see a few nuggets which may be helpful come Nov 6-7.

You don't have to watch the races to get a few nuggets, simply draw a line through all tommorows DIRT starters that you see on Breeders Cup Day.

[Gate Dancer]

You don't have to watch the races to get a few nuggets, simply draw a line through all tommorows DIRT starters that you see on Breeders Cup Day.

Interesting theory....................

[knickslions2]

10TH (5:43) Jockey Club Gold Cup S. (G1)

1 1/4 Miles | Open | 3 Year Olds And Up Stakes | Purse: $750,000

1 Sette E Mezzo Dominguez R A 126 L
2 Macho Again Albarado R J 126 L
3 Summer Bird Desormeaux K J 122 L
4 Tizway Maragh R 126 L
5 Asiatic Boy (ARG) Garcia Alan 126 Blk-On L
6 Dry Martini Prado E S 126 L
7 Quality Road Velazquez J R 122 L

This is a very interesting race

[Sightseek]

The Hirsch really is going to get killed with scratches as either Winchester or Gio Ponti could scratch, Presious Passion is likely to and Ready's Echo is cross-entered on Sunday in another short field:

4th (2:35)
Kelso H. (G2)

1 Mile (Turf) | Open | 3 Year Olds And Up Stakes | Purse: $250,000

Post # Horse Jockey Weight Claim Price Equip. Med.
1 Le Grand Cru Lezcano J 113 L
2 Court Vision Dominguez R A 120 Blk-On L
3 Yorktown (FR) Rose J 113 L
4 Ready's Echo Leparoux J R 114 L
5 Yield Bogey Samyn J L 114 L

[NTamm1215]

The Hirsch really is going to get killed with scratches as either Winchester or Gio Ponti could scratch, Presious Passion is likely to and Ready's Echo is cross-entered on Sunday in another short field:

4th (2:35)
Kelso H. (G2)

1 Mile (Turf) | Open | 3 Year Olds And Up Stakes | Purse: $250,000

Post # Horse Jockey Weight Claim Price Equip. Med.
1 Le Grand Cru Lezcano J 113 L
2 Court Vision Dominguez R A 120 Blk-On L
3 Yorktown (FR) Rose J 113 L
4 Ready's Echo Leparoux J R 114 L
5 Yield Bogey Samyn J L 114 L

Winchester and Gio Ponti could both run but you're right about Ready's Echo and Presious Passion. This whole charade about PP needing firm turf is funny b/c what he really needs is the same soft competition he beat up on at Mth and GP.

NT

[2MinsToPost]

The All Grade 1's Pick 4 is looking better and better. Shoot, pass on a couple races 2morrow and use that money to put together a nice Pick 4 at Belmont. Here's hoping that we can get a nice string of 4 races that pays a couple thousand at the end.

Lets look at the Pick 4,
Race 7 5 horses entered, 4 of which are very legit winners
Race 8 7 entries
Race 9 8 entries
Race 10 7 entries

Just my humble opinion but that is a nice sequence for a Pick 4 and I look forward to watching and betting! Lets look for the positives!

You know, I tend to look for quality, not quanity. I'll take a 5 horse field if it has 5 legit entries anyday versus a 10 horse field full of entries who show beyers of -0. Ah yes, Beulah will be open in no time:zz:

[ateamstupid]

The All Grade 1's Pick 4 is looking better and better. Shoot, pass on a couple races 2morrow and use that money to put together a nice Pick 4 at Belmont. Here's hoping that we can get a nice string of 4 races that pays a couple thousand at the end.

Lets look at the Pick 4,
Race 7 5 horses entered, 4 of which are very legit winners
Race 8 7 entries
Race 9 8 entries
Race 10 7 entries

Just my humble opinion but that is a nice sequence for a Pick 4 and I look forward to watching and betting! Lets look for the positives!

You know, I tend to look for quality, not quanity. I'll take a 5 horse field if it has 5 legit entries anyday versus a 10 horse field full of entries who show beyers of -0. Ah yes, Beulah will be open in no time:zz:

Sorry to be a buzzkill, but the way this meet has been going, I wouldn't count on any Pick 4's paying a couple thousand ever. The sequence looks incredibly chalky to me. I tried, but I just don't see the cute horses that'll trip this thing for four figures. Still should be a great day of racing, but if you're looking to get rich, I don't think this is the day.

[2MinsToPost]

Sorry to be a buzzkill, but the way this meet has been going, I wouldn't count on any Pick 4's paying a couple thousand ever. The sequence looks incredibly chalky to me. I tried, but I just don't see the cute horses that'll trip this thing for four figures. Still should be a great day of racing, but if you're looking to get rich, I don't think this is the day.

No buzzkill at all, reality. I am gonna try and get this thing down with possibly 2 singles, and play it for like $5 bucks or more. Take a stand and chance and see how it shakes down. You are probably right, chalky.

[jms62]

5/All/1/All cost you 49 for a buck
All/All/1/3 cost ya 35 for a buck...


Don't expect to visit the IRS window...

[2MinsToPost]

5/All/1/All cost you 49 for a buck
All/All/1/3 cost ya 35 for a buck...


Don't expect to visit the IRS window...

Yo, talkin different lingo, I am not playing a Pick 4 ticket for a dollar, not with this sequence. Talkin at least a $5 Pick 4.

I may try and beat the favorites in the JCGC and use Asiatic Boy and Dry Martini, leaning towards Asiatic Boy. Wow, QR and Bird should be heavy favorites, but............................................... ...............................

[jms62]

Gotcha.... I like your thinking with Dry Martini as nice value that is where I am heading. I think SUmmer Bird will be overbet and as a 3 year old I am not sold against these.

[Gander]

I dont think Fabulous Strike has to win tomorrow. I have a strong feeling they are going to go really nuts up front and Kodiak Kowboy is going to steal the show. Never been a huge fan of his but I think tomorrow is the time to bet him. People will be disuaded by his reputation for "not liking 6F" which is completely untrue and you may see the best price on him in a long time. Thinking the betting centers strongly around Fabulous Strike and Munnings, and maybe the Kowboy is let go at 4/1. You guys notice Asmussen has him back in his barn?

[Pedigree Ann]

Certainly Hold Me Back didn't give the sophomore class a boost with his uninspiring race in the Kentucky Cup Classic.

[ateamstupid]

I dont think Fabulous Strike has to win tomorrow. I have a strong feeling they are going to go really nuts up front and Kodiak Kowboy is going to steal the show. Never been a huge fan of his but I think tomorrow is the time to bet him. People will be disuaded by his reputation for "not liking 6F" which is completely untrue and you may see the best price on him in a long time. Thinking the betting centers strongly around Fabulous Strike and Munnings, and maybe the Kowboy is let go at 4/1. You guys notice Asmussen has him back in his barn?

That last race sealed the deal for me with Kodiak Kowboy. He just can't get it done unless he has the race served up for him. Even when he beat Fabulous Strike in the Carter, FS ran such a better race, it was a travesty he had to lose. It's a good field, so I don't advocate taking 3/5 on FS, but he's showed more rating capability this year than in the past and who exactly is the speedball in here? FS didn't have much issue with the pace Go Go Shoot set last time.

If FS loses it'll be to Munnings, but I don't see it happening at six furlongs.

[randallscott35]

That last race sealed the deal for me with Kodiak Kowboy. He just can't get it done unless he has the race served up for him. Even when he beat Fabulous Strike in the Carter, FS ran such a better race, it was a travesty he had to lose. It's a good field, so I don't advocate taking 3/5 on FS, but he's showed more rating capability this year than in the past and who exactly is the speedball in here? FS didn't have much issue with the pace Go Go Shoot set last time.

If FS loses it'll be to Munnings, but I don't see it happening at six furlongs.

The Assman may make the difference.

[ateamstupid]

The Assman may make the difference.

His powers are great, but I don't think he can make a confirmed seven-furlong nibbler beat the best six-furlong horse in the land.

[randallscott35]

His powers are great, but I don't think he can make a confirmed seven-furlong nibbler beat the best six-furlong horse in the land.
I dare not doubt him. And slop will be the topping.

[Gander]

That last race sealed the deal for me with Kodiak Kowboy. He just can't get it done unless he has the race served up for him. Even when he beat Fabulous Strike in the Carter, FS ran such a better race, it was a travesty he had to lose. It's a good field, so I don't advocate taking 3/5 on FS, but he's showed more rating capability this year than in the past and who exactly is the speedball in here? FS didn't have much issue with the pace Go Go Shoot set last time.
If FS loses it'll be to Munnings, but I don't see it happening at six furlongs.

He barely got up and beat him by 1 length. I thought Go Go Shoot had him at the 1/16th pole. I agree with you on the Carter. Fab Strike will be shorter than 3/5 imo, unless the Munnings fans really go nuts.

Nice race, even with the short field.

[2MinsToPost]

He barely got up and beat him by 1 length. I thought Go Go Shoot had him at the 1/16th pole. I agree with you on the Carter. Fab Strike will be shorter than 3/5 imo, unless the Munnings fans really go nuts.

Nice race, even with the short field.

I am leaning towards Go Go Shoot as a possible single for a price.

[ateamstupid]

He barely got up and beat him by 1 length. I thought Go Go Shoot had him at the 1/16th pole. I agree with you on the Carter. Fab Strike will be shorter than 3/5 imo, unless the Munnings fans really go nuts.

Nice race, even with the short field.

And where was Kodiak Kowboy?

[Gander]

I am leaning towards Go Go Shoot as a possible single for a price.

I dont like him at all. In fact he would be my first and possibly only throwout of this bunch. The time to bet him was last time.

Thats the reason I like Kowboy. You think Ramon is going to just let Go Go Shoot get loose again? He (on Fab Strike) had to work very hard to get up in his last race and I doubt the pace scenario will roll that way again.

I sense a strong pace duel developing and the Kowboy coming on late.

The best myth in horse racing is that Kodiak Kowboy doesnt run well going 6F :D

[Gander]

And where was Kodiak Kowboy?

I thought he had a pretty rough trip that day but I'll go back and watch it again.

[NTamm1215]

I'd have a very, very hard time betting Kodiak Kowboy tomorrow. When a horse like him who makes one big run has been failing with terrific setups then it's not a good idea at all to take him going a trip that has never been his best. This race would be vastly different if it was 7 furlongs but, alas, it is not and thus he's going to have to be in high gear very early.

Go Go Shoot ran his eyeballs out last time but he was awfully dull when fresh earlier this year and while he's working well, he may need a race and be really tuned up for a race like the Sport Page later this month.

I think this is Fabulous Strike's race to lose, obviously, but I'm going to use Peace Chant a bit as well. He likely needed a race going into the Forego and he was given what I considered to be an overly aggressive ride from a generally patient rider. He is a one-run closer but was too close to a hot pace and had no place to go through the last two and a half furlongs. If the rains come I think his chances may get marginally better as his dam, Safely Kept was 2 for 3 on wet tracks in her day and her offspring are a combined 4-10 on wet tracks.

NT

[SCUDSBROTHER]

No we just lack estrogen. I mean you have to be loaded with it to enjoy a 5 horse race with 4 betting interests.

Ohh Music Note. Excuse me while I not give a ****.

They don't understand entertainment. They think we give a sht who wins a 5 horse race (nope.)

[Travis Stone]

Certainly Hold Me Back didn't give the sophomore class a boost with his uninspiring race in the Kentucky Cup Classic.

He's allowed to regress off the Travers.

[the_fat_man]

I'd have a very, very hard time betting Kodiak Kowboy tomorrow. When a horse like him who makes one big run has been failing with terrific setups then it's not a good idea at all to take him going a trip that has never been his best. This race would be vastly different if it was 7 furlongs but, alas, it is not and thus he's going to have to be in high gear very early.


NT

I have no interest in this race, but the bolded portion is just wrong. In his last 5 races:

1) aqu 4/4/09: huge run to get Fabulous Strike at wire in race where top 2 held to wire otherwise.

2) cd 5/2/09: no shot where Accredit wired on off track -- nothing ran from off the pace

3) pha 6/27/09: wiped out a field where he got a nice setup

4) sar 8/9/09: no shot as FS and GGS went 2-1 around the track, in race with very little movement

5) sar 9/5/09: one of three coming late in race that fell apart late.


So he has a huge run in a race against the grain, and a wipe-out run in one of the 2 races where he got a 'terrific' setup. In the other such race, he's running with 2 other closers.

[NTamm1215]

I have no interest in this race, but the bolded portion is just wrong. In his last 5 races:

1) aqu 4/4/09: huge run to get Fabulous Strike at wire in race where top 2 held to wire otherwise.

2) cd 5/2/09: no shot where Accredit wired on off track -- nothing ran from off the pace

3) pha 6/27/09: wiped out a field where he got a nice setup

4) sar 8/9/09: no shot as FS and GGS went 2-1 around the track, in race with very little movement

5) sar 9/5/09: one of three coming late in race that fell apart late.


So he has a huge run in a race against the grain, and a wipe-out run in one of the 2 races where he got a 'terrific' setup. In the other such race, he's running with 2 other closers.

So the Carter wasn't a perfect setup because FS hung around? At that point in time Driven by Success was one of the better sprinters on the east coast and the fact that he and Fab Strike hung around is not that surprising. KK needed every bit of that final furlong to get up when he was able to lay back and make his one run in a race where FS BURIED all of the other speed.

I can forgive the CD race because he's never been that great on wet tracks.

You admitted the Pha race was a perfect setup.

Were GGS and FS not ripe for the picking at the top of the stretch in the Vanderbilt? They had set a quick pace and he swung out at the top of the stretch with two furlongs to get by.

The Forego was as perfect a setup as he's ever going to get.

Where you and I disagree about race flow is that it seems like you are occasionally married to the early vs. late positioning of the frontrunners when determining setups. Don't get me wrong, that's a huge part of understanding race flow but is certainly not the be all end all of it. The fact that FS and DbS hung around in the Carter should not in any way be a feather in Kodiak Kowboy's cap.

NT

[Kasept]

He's allowed to regress off the Travers.
Or suffer from a bad infection that has him shelved until next year..

[Sightseek]

Looks like the rain could hold off for most of the day according to weather.com - track is labeled fast, turf good.

[Travis Stone]

Or suffer from a bad infection that has him shelved until next year..

I did not hear that... interesting. I always kind of liked this horse. He put in that backstretch move at CD and really ran well in the Travers, and of course, the Lane's End win.

[the_fat_man]

So the Carter wasn't a perfect setup because FS hung around? At that point in time Driven by Success was one of the better sprinters on the east coast and the fact that he and Fab Strike hung around is not that surprising. KK needed every bit of that final furlong to get up when he was able to lay back and make his one run in a race where FS BURIED all of the other speed.

I can forgive the CD race because he's never been that great on wet tracks.

You admitted the Pha race was a perfect setup.

Were GGS and FS not ripe for the picking at the top of the stretch in the Vanderbilt? They had set a quick pace and he swung out at the top of the stretch with two furlongs to get by.

The Forego was as perfect a setup as he's ever going to get.

Where you and I disagree about race flow is that it seems like you are occasionally married to the early vs. late positioning of the frontrunners when determining setups. Don't get me wrong, that's a huge part of understanding race flow but is certainly not the be all end all of it. The fact that FS and DbS hung around in the Carter should not in any way be a feather in Kodiak Kowboy's cap.

NT


When you let things like numeric pace determine how a race is really run RATHER than how the race is actually run, then you tend to interpret a race as your theory dictates.

running lines at the 1st quarter for the top 4 finishers of the races in question:

1) aqu 4/4/09 :: 7-1-2-4 --- huge single run by KK off the pace

2) cd 5/2/09::: 1-6-9-5 --- huge run by The Roundhouse (9) while KK didn't do squat

3) pha 6/27/09::: 6-3-2-7 ---- perfect setup as everything on/near the pace collapsed

4) sar 8/09/09:: 2-1-6-4-5-3 ---- about as front favoring as you'd want -- barely any movement in race


5) sar 9/5/09::: 11-9-12-4-2-3 --- COLLAPSE


I've stopped looking at race in terms of how they're supposed to be run and just take them as they are run. KK has shown that he doesn't need a perfect setup to win. In fact, he's shown that he can run against the grain. This makes him considerably better, in this sense, than, probably, 90% of the horses out there (who need perfect trips).

What's interesting is that you're critical of KK, yet, on another thread, you claim to be impressed by Better Talk Now, who hasn't run an against the grain race in YEARS (if ever --- I only went back a few years in charts). Now, there's a horse that can't even win in a collapsing setup.

P.S. I'm 'married' to the early/late positioning thing because after looking at a million or so charts, it finally kicked in that this is an important factor. Races fit certain types and these all basically 'look' the same. Horses, with very extreme exceptions, don't 'outrun' these setups. Just the way it is.

[ateamstupid]

When you let things like numeric pace determine how a race is really run RATHER than how the race is actually run, then you tend to interpret a race as your theory dictates.

running lines at the 1st quarter for the top 4 finishers of the races in question:

1) aqu 4/4/09 :: 7-1-2-4 --- huge single run by KK off the pace

2) cd 5/2/09::: 1-6-9-5 --- huge run by The Roundhouse (9) while KK didn't do squat

3) pha 6/27/09::: 6-3-2-7 ---- perfect setup as everything on/near the pace collapsed

4) sar 8/09/09:: 2-1-6-4-5-3 ---- about as front favoring as you'd want -- barely any movement in race


5) sar 9/5/09::: 11-9-12-4-2-3 --- COLLAPSE


I've stopped looking at race in terms of how they're supposed to be run and just take them as they are run. KK has shown that he doesn't need a perfect setup to win. In fact, he's shown that he can run against the grain. This makes him considerably better, in this sense, than, probably, 90% of the horses out there (who need perfect trips).

What's interesting is that you're critical of KK, yet, on another thread, you claim to be impressed by Better Talk Now, who hasn't run an against the grain race in YEARS (if ever --- I only went back a few years in charts). Now, there's a horse that can't even win in a collapsing setup.

P.S. I'm 'married' to the early/late positioning thing because after looking at a million or so charts, it finally kicked in that this is an important factor. Races fit certain types and these all basically 'look' the same. Horses, with very extreme exceptions, don't 'outrun' these setups. Just the way it is.

I agree that early/late positioning is important, but it's too reliant on how good the speed/closers are to be used solely in determining pace setup. Just because Kodiak Kowboy was the only one who closed in the Carter, that doesn't mean that the race didn't set up for him. The blistering pace and slow come home time tell us otherwise. No other decent closers lifted a hoof. Tale of Ekati has been slow/injured this year, Ah Day isn't a Grade 1 horse, etc. This doesn't make KK's race any better. He didn't make a "huge run", he came lumbering along to barely nail an understandably tired Fabulous Strike at a distance unfavorable to FS. Like I said, even with the Assman's magic, I'd be stunned if this horse beat FS at six furlongs today.

Totally ignoring relative fractions and relying solely on early/late positioning is a pretty hardheaded strategy.

[NTamm1215]

When you let things like numeric pace determine how a race is really run RATHER than how the race is actually run, then you tend to interpret a race as your theory dictates.

running lines at the 1st quarter for the top 4 finishers of the races in question:

1) aqu 4/4/09 :: 7-1-2-4 --- huge single run by KK off the pace

2) cd 5/2/09::: 1-6-9-5 --- huge run by The Roundhouse (9) while KK didn't do squat

3) pha 6/27/09::: 6-3-2-7 ---- perfect setup as everything on/near the pace collapsed

4) sar 8/09/09:: 2-1-6-4-5-3 ---- about as front favoring as you'd want -- barely any movement in race


5) sar 9/5/09::: 11-9-12-4-2-3 --- COLLAPSE


I've stopped looking at race in terms of how they're supposed to be run and just take them as they are run. KK has shown that he doesn't need a perfect setup to win. In fact, he's shown that he can run against the grain. This makes him considerably better, in this sense, than, probably, 90% of the horses out there (who need perfect trips).

What's interesting is that you're critical of KK, yet, on another thread, you claim to be impressed by Better Talk Now, who hasn't run an against the grain race in YEARS (if ever --- I only went back a few years in charts). Now, there's a horse that can't even win in a collapsing setup.

P.S. I'm 'married' to the early/late positioning thing because after looking at a million or so charts, it finally kicked in that this is an important factor. Races fit certain types and these all basically 'look' the same. Horses, with very extreme exceptions, don't 'outrun' these setups. Just the way it is.

What Ateam said is basically what I'm getting at.

As far as Better Talk Now, I've always been a fan of how he's been able to stay relevant for many, many years. I know he needed a good setup to win but that doesn't mean that what he did is not admirable.

As far as Kodiak Kowboy running a "good" race in the Carter in your opinion, we'll agree to disagree, I thought the thing fell into his lap and he was the only horse to make a meaningful off the pace move.

NT

[Sightseek]

Dang, Carribean Sunset is out of the Flower Bowl. I'm interested in Moneycantbuymelove (IRE)...

[Sightseek]

You don't see a finish like the one in the 4th everyday. Bad luck for the 4.

[ateamstupid]

There is a lot of irony in a thread that combines people complaining about small fields on Saturday at Belmont while at the same time, others ( myself included) are complaining about why a horse like Interpertation is running SAturday in a GR1 at Belmont.

:tro:

[ateamstupid]

Yikes. Some crow please. Never underestimate the Assman.

[Sightseek]

:D

Good race...at least what we could see of it.

[NTamm1215]

Shouldn't have underestimated the Assmagic.

Score one for Fats and Gander.

NT

[the_fat_man]

Totally ignoring relative fractions and relying solely on early/late positioning is a pretty hardheaded strategy.

I've repeatedly tried to make my case here, to no avail. You guys just don't get it. What has happened in my use of these charts is that I've MODELED races --- specifically race types. These models are every bit as good as speed or pace figures (which are also models). It's just a different way of looking at races.

When some of you set aside your figure centric methods, you might just get what I'm doing. Till then, it makes no sense for me to discuss races (setups) here.

[Coach Pants]

Shut the f.uck up.

[NTamm1215]

I've repeatedly tried to make my case here, to no avail. You guys just don't get it. What has happened in my use of these charts is that I've MODELED races --- specifically race types. These models are every bit as good as speed or pace figures (which are also models). It's just a different way of looking at races.

When some of you set aside your figure centric methods, you might just get what I'm doing. Till then, it makes no sense for me to discuss races (setups) here.

So it makes no sense for you to discuss setups or races here because you were right about one race?

I hope you make a fortune at the races, dude, cause you talk a f.ucking huge game.

NT

[the_fat_man]

So it makes no sense for you to discuss setups or races here because you were right about one race?

I hope you make a fortune at the races, dude, cause you talk a f.ucking huge game.

NT

You know what, Nick? I was also right about Rail Trip and a bunch of others with you, including Straight Story. Remember him? He's the one that was one of the best 3 year old turf horses per Serling (who also thought that KK had no shot today). And you couldn't get it that Battle of Hastings was just better -- cause you're just a better tripper.:rolleyes: How many times do I need to stick it in your ass before you get it, Doofus? You're like the CSC idiot. Your tripping skills leave a lot to be desired. How's that? I'm done trying to educate you.

In the meantime, keep at the status quo.

[jms62]

I see a potential handicapping Octogon match brewing here.

[Travis Stone]

I see a potential handicapping Octogon match brewing here.

I'm settling in with a can of soda and some popcorn myself.

[NTamm1215]

You know what, Nick? I was also right about Rail Trip and a bunch of others with you, including Straight Story. Remember him? He's the one that was one of the best 3 year old turf horses per Serling (who also thought that KK had no shot today). And you couldn't get it that Battle of Hastings was just better -- cause you're just a better tripper.:rolleyes: How many times do I need to stick it in your ass before you get it, Doofus? You're like the CSC idioit. Your tripping skills leave a lot to be desired. How's that? I'm done trying to educate you.

In the meantime, keep at the status quo.

So me being wrong about Battle of Hastings and Kodiak Kowboy is not only emblematic of you being a better handicapper, you having a superior method for analyzing races and you sticking it in my ass?

The thing is, I'm certain there are better handicappers out there then me and I came on here to admit I was wrong and commented on both you and Gander being right about Kodiak Kowboy today. You chose to stroke yourself and basically s.hit on anyone here who has a different opinion. I come on here to discuss racing and don't ever mince words about my opinions. Am I wrong sometimes, absolutely, who isn't? But no matter what, I'm not ever going to chastise people or tell them they're beneath me because I was right and they were wrong.

NT

[randallscott35]

I dare not doubt him. And slop will be the topping.
Mmmm mmmm good. Now if only Asiatic Boy can win for me.

[Travis Stone]

It's been a rough year for weather on big race days... Kentucky Derby was sloppy, Louisiana Derby, Haskell, Travers, JCGC... odd.

[jms62]

I'm not a betting man mind you ;) but I think my money goes on the Fat_Man if they enter the Octogon.

[Travis Stone]

I'm not a betting man mind you ;) but I think my money goes on the Fat_Man if they enter the Octogon.

I know ntamm1215 personally, he's a good friend of mine, a class act and a better handicapper. So I will defer my opinions as they're obviously biased...

[jms62]

I know ntamm1215 personally, he's a good friend of mine, a class act and a better handicapper. So I will defer my opinions as they're obviously biased...

I don't know him but he said I was a chronic complainer for complaining about the horrible field sizes today. By his reaction I assume he is in the industry;)

[ateamstupid]

Lmfaaaaaooooooooo

[jms62]

:eek:

[my miss storm cat]

Oh my God that was great!!! :eek: :D :tro:

[Sightseek]

ha, ha!

[freddymo]

Oh my God that was great!!! :eek: :D :tro:
So SICK

[Travis Stone]

I don't know him but he said I was a chronic complainer for complaining about the horrible field sizes today. By his reaction I assume he is in the industry;)

If you define industry by polishing my shoes and feeding my dog before big race days, then yes, he is.

[jms62]

There is a lot of irony in a thread that combines people complaining about small fields on Saturday at Belmont while at the same time, others ( myself included) are complaining about why a horse like Interpertation is running SAturday in a GR1 at Belmont.
Classic thats why they line em up....

[my miss storm cat]

So SICK
Haha why is it sick?

Sorry but I've been a fan of his forever. No way would I have played him here - not in a million years - but I'm very happy he did it and thrilled for his connections.

[GPK]

Wow...serious crow eating time. I was wrong. Congrats to the Mr. Mavorah and Bobby Barbara.

[freddymo]

Haha why is it sick?

Sorry but I've been a fan of his forever. No way would I have played him here - not in a million years - but I'm very happy he did it and thrilled for his connections.

Its a long story

[jms62]

From a chronic complainer... I like the way the industry is delaying these post times so we can see all the graded stakes today. Or maybe it is simply a random occurrence

[my miss storm cat]

Its a long story
Okay... I just didn't get your comment. As an aside I have not read through this entire thread (yet) so am not slamming anyone here if I've missed something.

Still laughing though... what an awesome race!

[Travis Stone]

From a chronic complainer... I like the way the industry is delaying these post times so we can see all the graded stakes today. Or maybe it is simply a random occurrence

I agree, but more difficult is defining "the industry."

[Travis Stone]

Two very good 3-year-olds... Summer Bird a notch better than Quality Road at 10 furlongs, but both are talented.

[philcski]

Summer Bird is awesome. How could anyone not like this horse??? 8 career starts, and he's won the three biggest races in NY. That's near impossible.

[jms62]

Summer Bird is awesome. How could anyone not like this horse??? 8 career starts, and he's won the three biggest races in NY. That's near impossible.
He just keeps getting it done. I was planning on tossing all todays horses Breeders cup day but Summer Bird always gets the job done so I'll revisit that.

[NTamm1215]

Great race and performance by Summer Bird and a good race from Quality Road as well.

How about someone being alive to ALL in the Pick 6? Hope it was either Interpatation's owner or trainer!

NT

[freddymo]

Summer Bird is awesome. How could anyone not like this horse??? 8 career starts, and he's won the three biggest races in NY. That's near impossible.

Could win the Belmont, Travers, JCGC, BC Classic, and will not be horse of year!

[Travis Stone]

Summer Bird won today and he deserves credit. But Quality Road - for all the detractors and naysayers - ran huge. 10 furlongs is a tad too far for him, and that's okay. He broke outside, prompted the pace while rank, took over, and held Summer Bird at bay from the half-mile pole to just past mid-stretch. It's not like he was dusted a gave-up.

He's my early pick for the Cigar Mile.

[freddymo]

Summer Bird won today and he deserves credit. But Quality Road - for all the detractors and naysayers - ran huge. 10 furlongs is a tad too far for him, and that's okay. He broke outside, prompted the pace while rank, took over, and held Summer Bird at bay from the half-mile pole to just past mid-stretch. It's not like he was dusted a gave-up.

He's my early pick for the Cigar Mile.
A one turn mile could be Munnings best distance

[randallscott35]

That will be the first and only time I bet Asiatic Boy....Yuck.

[RockHardTen1985]

A one turn mile could be Munnings best distance
Munnings needs a dry track.

[my miss storm cat]

I hadn't realized this and thought it was cool. :)

http://drf.com/news/article/107812.html

Interpatation, whose last two wins had come in back-to-back renewals of the Larry R. Riviello Presidents Cup at Philadelphia Park in 2006-07, finished fourth at 28-1 in the 2006 Turf Classic, third at 19-1 two years ago, and was second at 16-1 last year.

Beautiful win by Summer Bird.

[GBBob]

Wow...serious crow eating time. I was wrong. Congrats to the Mr. Mavorah and Bobby Barbara.

I am waiting for my serving. Watched in disbelief for a lot of reasons. Congrats and well deserved.

Andy, Freddy...what can I say..

[philcski]

Great race and performance by Summer Bird and a good race from Quality Road as well.

How about someone being alive to ALL in the Pick 6? Hope it was either Interpatation's owner or trainer!

NT

They took the 11th off the grass after the pick 6 started, so if you had the first 5... you're a winner! Since it paid $190k someone had a single to the last leg (presumably on the 13 who was 6/5.) Otherwise it was definitely going to be a carryover.

[Left Bank]

They took the 11th off the grass after the pick 6 started, so if you had the first 5... you're a winner! Since it paid $190k someone had a single to the last leg (presumably on the 13 who was 6/5.) Otherwise it was definitely going to be a carryover.
They hit the "ALL" button.

[ateamstupid]

They hit the "ALL" button.

How do you know?

[philcski]

They hit the "ALL" button.

wrong

they probably hit the "ALL" button in the Hirsch but not in the last leg.

[Left Bank]

http://www.equibase.com/static/chart/pdf/BEL100309USA11.pdf
That is what the chart says.

[CSC]

You know what, Nick? I was also right about Rail Trip and a bunch of others with you, including Straight Story. Remember him? He's the one that was one of the best 3 year old turf horses per Serling (who also thought that KK had no shot today). And you couldn't get it that Battle of Hastings was just better -- cause you're just a better tripper.:rolleyes: How many times do I need to stick it in your ass before you get it, Doofus? You're like the CSC idiot. Your tripping skills leave a lot to be desired. How's that? I'm done trying to educate you.

In the meantime, keep at the status quo.

LMAO. :D :rolleyes: :zz: I am now complete.

[CSC]

Summer Bird won today and he deserves credit. But Quality Road - for all the detractors and naysayers - ran huge. 10 furlongs is a tad too far for him, and that's okay. He broke outside, prompted the pace while rank, took over, and held Summer Bird at bay from the half-mile pole to just past mid-stretch. It's not like he was dusted a gave-up.

He's my early pick for the Cigar Mile.

QR ran well Travis, better than I thought he would at 1 1/4, Summer Bird was good today, I'll have to look at the race again but I really expected him to blow the field away and would have done so had QR not had run so big. Onto the Classic and if he can win the race first and with some authority he may get a few HOY votes thrown his way, nonetheless it was a historical win today.

[philcski]

http://www.equibase.com/static/chart/pdf/BEL100309USA11.pdf
That is what the chart says.

I give up.

Like I said before, when they take a race off the turf in NY after the start of the pick 6 sequence, it is shown as an "ALL" race, so any runner is a winner. If he had more than one in the last leg, for example two live runners, it would have displayed $190k/2 = $95k per ticket, three live runners would have shown $190k/3 = $63k per ticket, etc.

[Left Bank]

I give up.

Like I said before, when they take a race off the turf in NY after the start of the pick 6 sequence, it is shown as an "ALL" race, so any runner is a winner. If he had more than one in the last leg, for example two live runners, it would have displayed $190k/2 = $95k per ticket, three live runners would have shown $190k/3 = $63k per ticket, etc.
I gotcha now,sorry.

[2MinsToPost]

Interpatation, yeah like I used this horse. Not in a million years.

How the hell does TAP's coupled entries in the Beldame get bet down to 5-2?

What a brutal betting day, but props to Gander who hit Kodiak Kowboy at 9-2

[knickslions2]

Nice to see Interpatation in over his head...yet again:rolleyes:

I don't get. What happened to horses being spotted where they have a actual shot of winning?:confused:


:) :$:

[GPK]

:) :$:

:D


I do gotta wonder how The Fat Charts would have ranked his chances today:rolleyes:

English Channel would have never let him re-rally past him like Gio Ponti did

[GPK]

Sorry to be a buzzkill, but the way this meet has been going, I wouldn't count on any Pick 4's paying a couple thousand ever. The sequence looks incredibly chalky to me. I tried, but I just don't see the cute horses that'll trip this thing for four figures. Still should be a great day of racing, but if you're looking to get rich, I don't think this is the day.

$2 pick pays $14,649

Sorry Joe, I just didn't wanna be the only one catching sh*t:D

[Cannon Shell]

Fine showing from the older horses today in the Gold Cup.

[freddymo]

Fine showing from the older horses today in the Gold Cup.
You kind of figured Rachel buried those dudes.

[Cannon Shell]

You kind of figured Rachel buried those dudes.
Not really. They sucked before they ran against her, they'll continue to suck afterwards.

[freddymo]

Not really. They sucked before they ran against her, they'll continue to suck afterwards.
Macho ran his race in the Woodward he isnt putting two big efforts like that together. Asiatic Boy is still in detox from leaving de Kock, Dry Martini is a grade 3 horse. Sette Mezzo would have won the Hirsch

[Cannon Shell]

Macho ran his race in the Woodward he isnt putting two big efforts like that together. Asiatic Boy is still in detox from leaving de Kock, Dry Martini is a grade 3 horse. Sette Mezzo would have won the Hirsch
Fine. They still all suck.

[Gander]

Shouldn't have underestimated the Assmagic.

Score one for Fats and Gander.

NT

Thanks NTamm. It was a really good day and Kodiak Kowboy was the one who got things rolling. Didnt have Interpretation or Pure Clan but had the late double a lot of times.

[freddymo]

Fine. They still all suck.

They do suck.. Speaking of SUXING Interpatation???GET THE F CUK OUT OF HERE???

[freddymo]

Thanks NTamm. It was a really good day and Kodiak Kowboy was the one who got things rolling. Didnt have Interpretation or Pure Clan but had the late double a lot of times.


You missed Interpatation HOW???

[Cannon Shell]

They do suck.. Speaking of SUXING Interpatation???GET THE F CUK OUT OF HERE???
:tro:

[Gander]

You missed Interpatation HOW???

The irony in that is I have played this horse many times, in races where he would have paid more than he did today. Oh well. It would have stung a lot more had that 1 horse not won the last race.

[freddymo]

:tro:


I guess I can watch turf racing tomorrow morning from Longchamps.. In all candor US turf racing is so inferior to Europe that it really shouldn't be considered in the same league. US horse completely sux.. All the stock is in Europe all the pedigree is there and we simply have a completely inferior product in the US. I was dreaming for a few hours and looked at the Wildenstein, Wertheimer, and Khan stock... The US has like 100 potential horses each year for sale to their 1000 produced in strong hands.

[randallscott35]

$2 pick pays $14,649

Sorry Joe, I just didn't wanna be the only one catching sh*t:D

I was alive on a 7 dollar ticket singled to Asiatic Boy for 21k. Kodiak, Clan, all, AB.....Needless to say what could've been. At least I didn't have to worry about a stretch drive.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Interpatation had only been defeated in 17 races in a row .. and was just 1 for his last 28 ... with that lone win over that span coming at Philly Park.

The only possible thing to not dislike about him would have been the fact that he was a huge price in a race where the weather was chaotic and the ground was extremely soft.

[the_fat_man]

When Interpatation changed back to lefty lead, around midstretch, his action was so bad that it appeared he was about to fall on his face. Then, we saw just about the UGLIEST lefty lead, the rest of the stretch, that I've seen in over 30 years of watching races. YET, he was able to, basically, BLOW BY Gio Ponti late. What a ****in' joke of a race. I lost all respect for GP after this one. Good horses just aren't supposed to lose that way. This was just UGLY.

[letswastemoney]

I too thought Interpretation was about to fall down when he switched leads.

[freddymo]

When Interpatation changed back to lefty lead, around midstretch, his action was so bad that it appeared he was about to fall on his face. Then, we saw just about the UGLIEST lefty lead, the rest of the stretch, that I've seen in over 30 years of watching races. YET, he was able to, basically, BLOW BY Gio Ponti late. What a ****in' joke of a race. I lost all respect for GP after this one. Good horses just aren't supposed to lose that way. This was just UGLY.
Fat Charts have interpatations winning in a windsheild wiper wipe out?

[freddymo]

I too thought Interpretation was about to fall down when he switched leads.
When you are stumbling in 27 what is the difference what your action looks like or what lead you are on. Just a pathetic horse race, but congrats to the connections...well done..Get the F out of hear that horse is a friggin pig

[VOL JACK]

Fat Charts have interpatations winning in a windsheild wiper wipe out?
:tro: :tro:

[jms62]

I too thought Interpretation was about to fall down when he switched leads.

I thought he took a bad step there and thought for sure the race was over... Do you think Ramon took his foot off the pedal once he got the lead.

[Danzig]

When Interpatation changed back to lefty lead, around midstretch, his action was so bad that it appeared he was about to fall on his face. Then, we saw just about the UGLIEST lefty lead, the rest of the stretch, that I've seen in over 30 years of watching races. YET, he was able to, basically, BLOW BY Gio Ponti late. What a ****in' joke of a race. I lost all respect for GP after this one. Good horses just aren't supposed to lose that way. This was just UGLY.


you don't think the soft bog had anything at all to do with gio pontis race? i wouldn't be so quick to dismiss him.

[RockHardTen1985]

you don't think the soft bog had anything at all to do with gio pontis race? i wouldn't be so quick to dismiss him.

He had a great year, but most of the horses he beat are simply not that good. Where does he go from here? I doubt he can win the BCC and I would not touch him going 1 1/2 in the turf.

[Gander]

Best chance and really the most logical race for Gio Ponti is the Classic.
I dont care what the conditions were yesterday, no excuse for him not to go by the overmatched Interpretation. How can you use the bog as an excuse when it clearly didnt bother him up until the point he hung after he got by Interpretation? I mean if he hated the turf so much how come he even got himself up and past Interpretation? I think the distance got him beat.

[parsixfarms]

He had a great year, but most of the horses he beat are simply not that good. Where does he go from here? I doubt he can win the BCC and I would not touch him going 1 1/2 in the turf.

Yesterday's race doesn't say much about his ability to get 12F at Santa Anita, where the first half mile of the race will be run downhill. He got 11F nicely in the Man O War; yesterday's boggy course, leading to a final time of 2:41, was as "heavy" as the turf will ever be here.

[LARHAGE]

I thought Dominguez pulled the trigger too soon on Gio Ponti, when Telling ranged up on his outside he sent GP, kind of like he did in The Arlington Million, the heavy going and extra distance coupled with the premature move hurt him, I don't think I'd dismiss him in the Turf, if Dominguez would quit riding so wide, and moving too soon, he'll be right there at Santa Anita.

[RockHardTen1985]

Yesterday's race doesn't say much about his ability to get 12F at Santa Anita, where the first half mile of the race will be run downhill. He got 11F nicely in the Man O War; yesterday's boggy course, leading to a final time of 2:41, was as "heavy" as the turf will ever be here.

I dont give Gio Ponti much of a chance to win any Breeders Cup race, He might be best sutied for the mile, but he would not even be the horse to beat there....

[Left Bank]

I dont give Gio Ponti much of a chance to win any Breeders Cup race, He might be best sutied for the mile, but he would not even be the horse to beat there....
So who will be the horse to beat there?

[RockHardTen1985]

So who will be the horse to beat there?


Even with her loss yesterday I would take Goldikova any day over Gio Ponti.

[3kings]

Is it possible that Gio Ponti wasn't on go for this? The big race is next month (whichever they choose) and they could have been using this as a prep. That being said, even as a prep, he should have run past his rival today.

[NTamm1215]

Is it possible that everyone's ignoring that that race was run under some of the most ridiculous conditions in the history of American racing? Is it possible that Gio Ponti is nowhere near a 12 furlong horse and certainly not the 14 or so that yesterday's race played like?

I understand that he's supposed to run right by Interpatation but one thing that Interpatation had proved he was was a stayer.

I would put slightly above 0 stock in that performance in terms of analyzing Gio Ponti. I also love him cutting back in the Classic and I think that was the intent all along.

NT

[Danzig]

Best chance and really the most logical race for Gio Ponti is the Classic.
I dont care what the conditions were yesterday, no excuse for him not to go by the overmatched Interpretation. How can you use the bog as an excuse when it clearly didnt bother him up until the point he hung after he got by Interpretation? I mean if he hated the turf so much how come he even got himself up and past Interpretation? I think the distance got him beat.


perhaps class and ability got him as far as it did, but you can't ignore a turf horses likes and dislikes and the cut in the ground. a horse who likes firm turf will often get beat when there's too much cut, and that may well have been what cost gio the win yesterday. the horse has done to well up to yesterday to stick a fork in him after one race-especially considering the track. it may well turn out the distance got him beat-or maybe it was the turf. he's worth another chance imo.

[3kings]

Is it possible that everyone's ignoring that that race was run under some of the most ridiculous conditions in the history of American racing? Is it possible that Gio Ponti is nowhere near a 12 furlong horse and certainly not the 14 or so that yesterday's race played like?

I understand that he's supposed to run right by Interpatation but one thing that Interpatation had proved he was was a stayer.

I would put slightly above 0 stock in that performance in terms of analyzing Gio Ponti. I also love him cutting back in the Classic and I think that was the intent all along.

NT
That is what I was insinuating with the post above yours.

[Danzig]

Even with her loss yesterday I would take Goldikova any day over Gio Ponti.



this makes absolutely no sense. exactly what type of logic do you use to decide that one horse has an excusable effort, while another does not? if goldikova is worthy of benefit of the doubt, i would expect the same could be said about gio ponti.

[Danzig]

Even with her loss yesterday I would take Goldikova any day over Gio Ponti.



darn rain....

[Danzig]

Even with her loss yesterday I would take Goldikova any day over Gio Ponti.



double post

[Coach Pants]

One, twice, three tiiiimes a clicky.

[RockHardTen1985]

this makes absolutely no sense. exactly what type of logic do you use to decide that one horse has an excusable effort, while another does not? if goldikova is worthy of benefit of the doubt, i would expect the same could be said about gio ponti.

Gio Ponti is simply not very fast and never has been. Hes a grinder, a high classed plodder IMO. He beat shitty Euros at best in the Arlington Million "ask Brockguy about it, Im sure he will agree"

Where are the good horses he has beat this year? Im just not sold on him and I never have been.... If you want to sit here and argue Gio Ponti is better then Goldikova going a mile then IMO the joke is on you.

[the_fat_man]

Gio Ponti is simply not very fast and never has been. Hes a grinder, a high classed plodder IMO. He beat shitty Euros at best in the Arlington Million "ask Brockguy about it, Im sure he will agree"

Where are the good horses he has beat this year? Im just not sold on him and I never have been.... If you want to sit here and argue Gio Ponti is better then Goldikova going a mile then IMO the joke is on you.

Why do you insist on utilizing catch phrases to categorize race horses? Especially on turf, where it's all about trips.

Gio is the best turf horse in the country. PERIOD. He's proven this by winning under a number of different setups, something 99.99% of all horses are unable to do. Nonetheless, GP is not better than Ventura going 8F. (Unless Gomez is up and blows the ride again.) As for Goldikova, you really need to watch the replay of her BC win again and try, AT LEAST, to understand why she got the ABSOLUTELY BEST POSSIBLE TRIP a horse can get.

[my miss storm cat]

Gio is the best turf horse in the country. PERIOD.
In your opinion is it because he's that good or is it by default?

[jms62]

Why do you insist on utilizing catch phrases to categorize race horses? Especially on turf, where it's all about trips.

Gio is the best turf horse in the country. PERIOD. He's proven this by winning under a number of different setups, something 99.99% of all horses are unable to do. Nonetheless, GP is not better than Ventura going 8F. (Unless Gomez is up and blows the ride again.) As for Goldikova, you really need to watch the replay of her BC win again and try, AT LEAST, to understand why she got the ABSOLUTELY BEST POSSIBLE TRIP a horse can get.
Did you feel Dominquez Declared victory too early yesterday thinking that Interpratation was done.

[the_fat_man]

Did you feel Dominquez Declared victory too early yesterday thinking that Interpratation was done.

Dominguez moved too soon in the Man o' War and the Million, as well. How do you explain yesterday's performance? Doesn't make sense. Losing to that mule?

[Travis Stone]

As for Goldikova, you really need to watch the replay of her BC win again and try, AT LEAST, to understand why she got the ABSOLUTELY BEST POSSIBLE TRIP a horse can get.

I said this in another thread but no one responded... it was a dream run for her last year.

[Danzig]

Gio Ponti is simply not very fast and never has been. Hes a grinder, a high classed plodder IMO. He beat shitty Euros at best in the Arlington Million "ask Brockguy about it, Im sure he will agree"

Where are the good horses he has beat this year? Im just not sold on him and I never have been.... If you want to sit here and argue Gio Ponti is better then Goldikova going a mile then IMO the joke is on you.

i never said i thought gio was better than goldikova. what i said was i don't understand why you think goldikova should get excused for a loss, but one loss is all you need to completely toss gio ponti.

[Left Bank]

I think that even if Gio Ponti won,you guys would still use up 168 posts to bash him.

[richard]

Fine showing from the older horses today in the Gold Cup.
It's not the same race less than 12f. It's like a one turn mile for the younger horses after they wake up after the 1/4.