9/5 (SAR): Woodward (G1)

[Sightseek]

10TH (5:52) Woodward S. (G1)

1 1/8 Miles | Open | 3 Year Olds And Up Stakes | Purse: $750,000

1 Da' Tara Lezcano J 126 L (12-1)
2 Bullsbay Rose J 126 L (6-1)
3 Rachel Alexandra Borel C H 118 L (1-2)
1A Cool Coal Man Velazquez J R 126 L (12-1)
4 Macho Again Albarado R J 126 L (8-1)
5 It's a Bird Leparoux J R 126 L (10-1)
6 Asiatic Boy (ARG) Garcia Alan 126 L (10-1)
7 Past the Point Prado E S 126 L (12-1)

A-Coupled: Da' Tara and Cool Coal Man

[Coach Pants]

Neat.

[Travis Stone]

I know she's Rachel and everything but does everything think she stays as low as 1-2?

I think a lot of wise-guy handicappers are going to use this race as a chance to play against her. She's faster on paper, sure, but there's the big overhanging cloud about it being older boys not just her age etc.

[boswd]

The field:

Post position (program number)

1. (1) Da' Tara - Jose Lezcano - Nick Zito - 12-1

2. (2) Bullsbay - Jeremy Rose - Graham Motion - 6-1

3. (3) Rachel Alexandra - Calvin Borel - Steve Asmussen - 1-2

4. (1A) Cool Coal Man - John Velazquez - Nick Zito - 12-1

5. (4) Macho Again - Robby Albarado - Dallas Stewart - 8-1

6. (5) It's a Bird - Julien Leparoux - Marty Wolfson - 10-1

7. (6) Asiatic Boy - Alan Garcia - Kiaran McLaughlin - 10-1

8. 7) Past the Point - Edgar Prado - Eoin Harty 15-1

Da' Tara and Cool Coal Man coupled


You're quicker then NYRA getting this up, Thanks.

3&5 EXBX

[cakes44]

I will probably go with that as well, but I still need to look at some other things first obviously. It's a Bird will likely be juiced out of his mind for this one.

[boswd]

I know she's Rachel and everything but does everything think she stays as low as 1-2?

I think a lot of wise-guy handicappers are going to use this race as a chance to play against her. She's faster on paper, sure, but there's the big overhanging cloud about it being older boys not just her age etc.


I agree 1-2 is a bit much, but she is being spotted 8Lbs in the process.

Now if Macho Again or Bullsbay step up and win this making them a multple GI winner are they the new star of racing?

[CSC]

I know she's Rachel and everything but does everything think she stays as low as 1-2?

I think a lot of wise-guy handicappers are going to use this race as a chance to play against her. She's faster on paper, sure, but there's the big overhanging cloud about it being older boys not just her age etc.

I hear you, there are no sure things in racing, but if this field was minus Rachel I don't think many would say this is allstar stellar group of older horses. Certainly not in the league of the Left Bank-Street Cry-Lido Palace-Macho Uno 2002 Whitney. I sense the tension is up that her supporters think she may not run her race, I don't know she has a good draw, she has the weight for sex advantage. If she runs her race she should win this. However 1-2 does seem low for the ML.

[randallscott35]

Da Tara surely deserves to be here after that bang up last race.

[robfla]

I know she's Rachel and everything but does everything think she stays as low as 1-2?

.

I think she will be LOWER than 1:2

guessing 2:5 at best.

[Scav]

Da Tara surely deserves to be here after that bang up last race.

I'm beginning to think that is all the owner and not Zito, he usually spots his horses pretty well

[randallscott35]

I would tend to agree but this spot is ridiculous.

[Antitrust32]

The field:

Post position (program number)

1. (1) Da' Tara - Jose Lezcano - Nick Zito - 12-1

2. (2) Bullsbay - Jeremy Rose - Graham Motion - 6-1

3. (3) Rachel Alexandra - Calvin Borel - Steve Asmussen - 1-2

4. (1A) Cool Coal Man - John Velazquez - Nick Zito - 12-1

5. (4) Macho Again - Robby Albarado - Dallas Stewart - 8-1

6. (5) It's a Bird - Julien Leparoux - Marty Wolfson - 10-1

7. (6) Asiatic Boy - Alan Garcia - Kiaran McLaughlin - 10-1

8. 7) Past the Point - Edgar Prado - Eoin Harty 15-1

Da' Tara and Cool Coal Man coupled

Does everyone still think the Travers was such a tougher race than this still? I know there are no Invasor's in here or even Lawyer Ron's... but its a nice field for what we have out there.

I'm not going to bet but if I was it wouldnt be on Rachel.. Macho Again would probably take my cash.. and burn it. lol

I hope she wins and if she runs her race she should, but this is no gimme.

[Clip-Clop]

Wolfson's horses run big at the right time, :rolleyes: perhaps he can get it done.

[SniperSB23]

Does everyone still think the Travers was such a tougher race than this still? I know there are no Invasor's in here or even Lawyer Ron's... but its a nice field for what we have out there.

I'm not going to bet but if I was it wouldnt be on Rachel.. Macho Again would probably take my cash.. and burn it. lol

I hope she wins and if she runs her race she should, but this is no gimme.

I think this race is tougher than the Travers.

[CSC]

Does everyone still think the Travers was such a tougher race than this still? I know there are no Invasor's in here or even Lawyer Ron's... but its a nice field for what we have out there.

I'm not going to bet but if I was it wouldnt be on Rachel.. Macho Again would probably take my cash.. and burn it. lol

I hope she wins and if she runs her race she should, but this is no gimme.

Prior to the Travers, that would have been a good question to the Quality Road backers. For the record I'd take QR over these horses.

[SniperSB23]

Prior to the Travers, that would have been a good question to the Quality Road backers. I'd take QR over these horses.

He fits with these horses at 9 furlongs, he wasn't ready for 10.

[Alan07]

12 races Saturday

[Antitrust32]

Prior to the Travers, that would have been a good question to the Quality Road backers. I'd take QR over these horses.


I didnt understand the Quality Road buzz before the Travers. His race in the FL Derby was awesome but that was quite awhile ago now. His 6.5 furlong race was good but as it was pointed out on here by DrugS.. the final time had a lot to do with the speedy track, and the 2nd place finisher broke the track record also.


Again I didnt bet the Travers.. but your horse (Summer Bird) was the best bet, he was the most accomplished, very classy & you know he was going to love 1 1/4. & the odds were great.

Other than Summer Bird the only other option IMO would have been to chase a longshot.

I really wasnt feeling the Quality road buzz.. SB deserved that buzz more IMO.

[slotdirt]

Have to think this is just about the best the handicap division has to offer right now, no? Macho Again, Bullsbay have had half-decent seasons.

[Clip-Clop]

I didnt understand the Quality Road buzz before the Travers. His race in the FL Derby was awesome but that was quite awhile ago now. His 6.5 furlong race was good but as it was pointed out on here by DrugS.. the final time had a lot to do with the speedy track, and the 2nd place finisher broke the track record also.


Again I didnt bet the Travers.. but your horse (Summer Bird) was the best bet, he was the most accomplished, very classy & you know he was going to love 1 1/4. & the odds were great.

Other than Summer Bird the only other option IMO would have been to chase a longshot.

I really wasnt feeling the Quality road buzz.. SB deserved that buzz more IMO.

And won another big race on Saturday.

[CSC]

I didnt understand the Quality Road buzz before the Travers. His race in the FL Derby was awesome but that was quite awhile ago now. His 6.5 furlong race was good but as it was pointed out on here by DrugS.. the final time had a lot to do with the speedy track, and the 2nd place finisher broke the track record also.


Again I didnt bet the Travers.. but your horse (Summer Bird) was the best bet, he was the most accomplished, very classy & you know he was going to love 1 1/4. & the odds were great.
Other than Summer Bird the only other option IMO would have been to chase a longshot.

I really wasnt feeling the Quality road buzz.. SB deserved that buzz more IMO.

I couldn't agree more on the bolded, I posted before the race I thought QR was the only horse with enough talent to give SB a run for his money. In addition Mine That Bird was a go until they changed plans in the last minute, it would have been a very good field had all the TC series race winners decided to run in it esp with the addition of QR.

[randallscott35]

I couldn't agree more on the bolded, I posted before the race I thought QR was the only horse with enough talent to give SB a run for his money. In addition Mine That Bird was a go until they changed plans in the last minute, it would have been a very good field had all the TC series race winners decided to run in it esp with the addition of QR.

I guess I missed where his odds were great. 7.80 to win? Huh.

[Cannon Shell]

Does everyone still think the Travers was such a tougher race than this still? I know there are no Invasor's in here or even Lawyer Ron's... but its a nice field for what we have out there.

I'm not going to bet but if I was it wouldnt be on Rachel.. Macho Again would probably take my cash.. and burn it. lol

I hope she wins and if she runs her race she should, but this is no gimme.
Summer Bird would be the clear 2nd choice in here

[Gander]

Summer Bird would be the clear 2nd choice in here

And again be a distant second and fill out a very small exacta, although $12 for the Haskell was like stealing money :D

[Antitrust32]

I guess I missed where his odds were great. 7.80 to win? Huh.


5/2 odds were very good IMO for Summer Bird. Especially since he was the most likely winner & easily had the most class and the distance wasnt a question.

I was at the cigar bar playing pool and watching the ESPN coverage here and there.. but I almost felt like shooting over to OBS when I saw 5/2.

Of course if I would have bet him he probably would have lost.

[hockey2315]

A redboard daily double.

[Smooth Operator]

"Graveyard of Favorites"............

[Antitrust32]

Summer Bird would be the clear 2nd choice in here


Maybe at 1 1/4.. I dont know about 1 1/8th..

Summer Bird was built for classic distances.

[Antitrust32]

A redboard daily double.


:confused:

[randallscott35]

A redboard daily double.
LOL, well said.

[CSC]

I guess I missed where his odds were great. 7.80 to win? Huh.

I was answering Antitrust's question of which field was tougher in competition and my answer to that was I thought QR was a very worthy opponent prior to the running of the Travers, I was consistent in this analysis. Anyone can say that may not be so now, esp after SB's relative easy race but prior to that race off QR's track record and his Florida Derby victory maybe one wouldn't be so sure. I wasn't referring to odds...

[tector]

You know, you don't win by just showing up.

Secretariat lost races in August and September of his 3YO season (including the Woodward, to 16-1 Prove Out). Screw your picayune analysis of which race is/was "tougher", blah blah blah. If RA wins this race, she should be HOY, conclusively, based upon a series of ambitious achievements throughout the course of the entire year--what part of Horse of the Year don't you guys understand?

There are a cluster of small-minded, self-absorbed, anal-retentive losers here who seemingly can't appreciate the remarkable even when it is dumped right under their noses. Jesus, go play fantasy football or something. Your fantasy horse racing is boring me shitless.

[parsixfarms]

While it appears that Rachel Alexandra is the most talented runner in this field, am I the one one who thinks that this morning's post draw did her no favors? With likely pace-setter Past the Point probably a dead-send from his outside post draw, and the two Zito runners drawn to her inside and immediate outside, it's conceivable that the run into the first turn could be very interesting. As a "marked" horse in this race, I can envision a trip for her somewhat similar to the one "enjoyed" by Ginger Punch in the Go For Wand here last summer. If It's a Bird runs his "A" race, and she can't get to the outside in the first 3/8 of a mile, this could really turn into quite a test for her.

[Smooth Operator]

Big boys ain't gunna let her steal this thing.


Just hope she comes out of it in one piece...

[Indian Charlie]

Big boys ain't gunna let her steal this thing.


Just hope she comes out of it in one piece...

Ugh.

I'm going to go sharpen my knives up now and skillfully separate each of my fingernails away from my skin.

I'll be able to take my mind off such exquisite pain by first printing out a random sampling of your posts and reading them every time I feel like crying out in agony.

[parsixfarms]

Big boys ain't gunna let her steal this thing.


Just hope she comes out of it in one piece...

Based on your other posts, why do I think this is insincere?

[Smooth Operator]

Wouldn't run a 3yo filly against older males...

[Indian Charlie]

Wouldn't run a 3yo filly against older males...

Nor would you run Zenyatta against anything greater than decent allowance fillies.

[RockHardTen1985]

It's a bird is ok. I might bet him.

[letswastemoney]

Wouldn't run a 3yo filly against older males...
If she's faster than them, why wouldn't you? She's a front runner, so she'll have tactical position. It's not like she has to bump her way through traffic from the back of the pack.

[King Glorious]

Wouldn't run a 3yo filly against older males...

Then you wouldn't own Very Subtle, Goldikova, Miesque, Ridgewood Pearl, Zarkava, or Six Perfections. All of those horses won BC races as 3yo fillies against older males.

As for whether or not this race is tougher than the Travers, they aren't being judged the same. You can't look at the results of the Travers and then say this race is tougher. Going into the Travers, as much as everyone wants to say now that Quality Road wasn't ready for it (and yes, there were some that said it beforehand), the truth is that nobody was sure just how good he was or if he just might be able to pull it off. He was the one member of his class that had run numbers in Rachel's stratosphere and the one that she hadn't beaten. There was also the 10f question for her to answer for the first time. If QR had won off by five, this question wouldn't be asked. In hindsight though, seeing how easily Summer Bird won and knowing how she dominated him, it's easy to say how she would have dominated that field. At 1-2, she's being expected to dominate this field too and people are saying this is a tougher race but what would you say if she wins by 10 against these? Judge it after the race like you are doing the Travers.

[Sightseek]

While it appears that Rachel Alexandra is the most talented runner in this field, am I the one one who thinks that this morning's post draw did her no favors? With likely pace-setter Past the Point probably a dead-send from his outside post draw, and the two Zito runners drawn to her inside and immediate outside, it's conceivable that the run into the first turn could be very interesting. As a "marked" horse in this race, I can envision a trip for her somewhat similar to the one "enjoyed" by Ginger Punch in the Go For Wand here last summer. If It's a Bird runs his "A" race, and she can't get to the outside in the first 3/8 of a mile, this could really turn into quite a test for her.

I agree.

[tector]

You know, you don't win by just showing up.

Secretariat lost races in August and September of his 3YO season (including the Woodward, to 16-1 Prove Out). Screw your picayune analysis of which race is/was "tougher", blah blah blah. If RA wins this race, she should be HOY, conclusively, based upon a series of ambitious achievements throughout the course of the entire year--what part of Horse of the Year don't you guys understand?

There are a cluster of small-minded, self-absorbed, anal-retentive losers here who seemingly can't appreciate the remarkable even when it is dumped right under their noses. Jesus, go play fantasy football or something. Your fantasy horse racing is boring me shitless.

To wit:

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/horse/columns/story?columnist=plonk_jeremy&id=4439621

Wednesday, September 2, 2009
Racing's legendary ladies
By Jeremy Plonk
Special to ESPN.com

It's not easy being great, with all apologies to noted philosopher Kermit the Frog. And on Saturday, another wildly popular animal will put that fact to the test when Rachel Alexandra takes on older males in the Grade 1 Woodward Stakes at Saratoga.

Discredit the field for the Woodward all you wish, and consider that last week's Travers Stakes featuring Belmont winner Summer Bird and Florida Derby demon Quality Road could have been the tougher spot. You won't get an argument here, but the past is the past, and it's time to look forward. The Woodward contenders of 2009 won't be mistaken for any historical measuring stick of greatness. This is not 3-year-old Spectacular Bid stepping up to meet past Triple Crown champ and then 4-year-old Affirmed in the 1979 Jockey Club Gold Cup.

So, while a scant few 3-year-old fillies ever have tried to capture such noteworthy and entrenched handicap races as the Woodward or Jockey Club Gold Cup, a historical trip down memory lane does little to feed or starve the arguments as to just what the accomplishment might really mean. But just in terms of the comparative genre of great fillies and mares vs. great colts and horses, the laundry list of female failures is startling -- so startling that any measured success has to be given the utmost respect, including Rachel Alexandra's existing wins against fellow 3-year-olds in the Preakness and Haskell.

Make not mistake: Rachel Alexandra's place in the pantheon of filly and mare greatness should already be secured, even if she never beats older males, even average ones. When you look at the top distaffers of the past 30 years, you'll see the roadside littered with losses to non-descript males. I set out on a journey to uncover the common nature of great ladies outrunning great gents in the Sport of Kings. But what I found was that the handful of really memorable success stories was monsooned by so many lost memories of lost races.

Case in point: Many racetrackers remember the super mare Lady's Secret and her triumph in the 1986 Whitney Handicap at Saratoga. But most have long forgotten that it was the first and only time she'd beat males, losing all six other attempts, not to mention the never-will-be names that chased her home at the Spa (Ends Well, Fuzzy et al) and the fact that a sloppy track helped carry her tremendous early speed.

Genuine Risk burned her name into the all-time consciousness of horse racing fans with a victory in the 1980 Kentucky Derby, and the timing proved to be everything for her in terms of historical remembrance. While she wore the roses, few recall that Genuine Risk was just 1-for-4 against the boys, losing the Wood, Preakness and Belmont. Turn it around with a win in one of the other races and a Derby loss, and her legacy certainly changes, right or wrong.

The 1980s, indeed, were high times for the distaff set in horse racing. Winning Colors also took down a Derby in that decade, but she was even-steven against the boys in her career at 2-for-4, beaten some 41 lengths in the Belmont when finishing last.

The top fillies and mares of the 1990s also took their tea with a few lumps when facing the boys. Unbeaten champion Meadow Star boasted a 9-for-9 mark heading into the 1990 Wood Memorial and left with a 10-length drubbing; Silverbulletday failed miserably in her attempt to extend herself in the 1999 Belmont Stakes, also beaten more than 10 lengths; the legendary west coast mare Paseana saw her seven-race win streak go up in smoke when beating only two horses in the 1992 Pacific Classic; and her predecessor/stablemate Bayakoa dropped both attempts against the boys in 1990, a last-of-10 effort in the Santa Anita Handicap and a distant runner-up as the odds-on choice in the Grade 3 San Diego Handicap.

More recently, this decade's preeminent mare, Azeri, failed to light the board in two attempts against the boys, finishing out of the money in both the Grade 1 Metropolitan Mile and Breeders' Cup Classic.

And if you want to make the argument that horses just aren't made like they used to be, let us not forget that the golden era of the 1970s saw some of its leading ladies suffer similar outcomes. Susan's Girl won 29 times, 6 of those in Grade 1 stakes, but was a horrific 0-for-6 against the boys; Davona Dale was 0-for-2 against the boys, beaten some 28 lengths in the Travers; and Shuvee may be best remembered as a 2-time Jockey Club Gold Cup winner, but she lost all 6 other tries against the opposite sex and twice failed to hit the board in the 1970-'71 Woodward renewals.

These are not random examples, but rather a strong sampling of the biggest-named fillies and mares to race down any pike in the past four decades. No matter what your take is on Rachel Alexandra or the quality of this year's 3-year-old crop, the filly's two victories over the boys this year already have put her in a rare air. If she goes on to win the Woodward against supposedly weak competition, it won't be any softer than Personal Ensign's scant two challengers in the 1989 Whitney, consisting of a seven-pound weight break against sprinters Gulch and King's Swan.

History doesn't care about weight breaks and who you beat. We remember those horses who do things outside the box. When you accomplish something that Susan's Girl, Davona Dale, Bayakoa, Paseana, Silverbulletday and Azeri couldn't do, that's special. For that, Rachel Alexandra's Preakness and Haskell performances already have her among the game's all-time greatest ladies.

If Rachel Alexandra succeeds in Saturday's Woodward, my research tells me we need to drop the word "ladies" from the previous sentence. Like we stated from the get-go, it's not easy being great. This filly will have earned every ounce of adoration.

[Sightseek]

Azeri could have beaten Graded Stakes males - she just was either put on the wrong track to attempt to do so or went up against the likes of Ghostzapper.

[Cannon Shell]

Azeri could have beaten Graded Stakes males - she just was either put on the wrong track to attempt to do so or went up against the likes of Ghostzapper.
Azeri would be odds on in this edition of the Woodward.
Not taking anything away from RA. If she wins it will be a feather in her cap. But i still maintain that running any horse in any race where you are 1/2 on the morning line isnt a real stretch.

[King Glorious]

Azeri would be odds on in this edition of the Woodward.
Not taking anything away from RA. If she wins it will be a feather in her cap. But i still maintain that running any horse in any race where you are 1/2 on the morning line isnt a real stretch.

Exactly. That article is ok but it's misleading. Winning this race and winning the two that she won against the boys don't make her great. They make her memorable. Winning Colors might have been only 2-4 against the boys but I'd take her third in the Preakness and stack it up with Rachel's winning the Preakness any day. Her nose loss to Personal Ensign means more to me than beating average older males. The competition you face matters.

[Gander]

I dont see what the morning line odds matter one bit. First thing is that its only one person's opinion and second thing is the amount of money that will be bet on Rachel purely because of her notoriety is insane. If you were to analyze this race strictly on numbers and data, and assigned letters to each horse instead of names and "reputations", she would be a lot higher than the probable 2/5 she will be sent off at. She would probably be in the neighborhood of even money or 6/5 if you took the names away.

Why would a horse be great or not great based on the morning line odds? :zz: Or even the actual odds for that matter? Is it her fault she has this huge following and this race just happens to occur at Saratoga, a place where the pools are already huge and filled with money from people who only bet a couple times per year?

I mean would she be great if she was the more appropriate 6/5 in this spot, beating these same horses?

[Cannon Shell]

I dont see what the morning line odds matter one bit. First thing is that its only one person's opinion and second thing is the amount of money that will be bet on Rachel purely because of her notoriety is insane. If you were to analyze this race strictly on numbers and data, and assigned letters to each horse instead of names and "reputations", she would be a lot higher than the probable 2/5 she will be sent off at. She would probably be in the neighborhood of even money or 6/5 if you took the names away.

Why would a horse be great or not great based on the morning line odds? :zz: Or even the actual odds for that matter? Is it her fault she has this huge following and this race just happens to occur at Saratoga, a place where the pools are already huge and filled with money from people who only bet a couple times per year?

I mean would she be great if she was the more appropriate 6/5 in this spot, beating these same horses?
It has nothing to do with her "greatness" or any measure of it. It has to do with the fact that she is an overwhelming fav over the field she is facing. Running a overwhelming fav doesnt make you bold in my opinion. It makes you smart. This is a pretty logical spot for her as was the Haskell. The fact that it is against males is interesting and a bit historic but come on, this isnt like taking on Mike Tyson his his prime.

[King Glorious]

It has nothing to do with her "greatness" or any measure of it. It has to do with the fact that she is an overwhelming fav over the field she is facing. Running a overwhelming fav doesnt make you bold in my opinion. It makes you smart. This is a pretty logical spot for her as was the Haskell. The fact that it is against males is interesting and a bit historic but come on, this isnt like taking on Mike Tyson his his prime.

Here's an example of taking a risk: In 1990, Bayakoa, having already won a BC Distaff and Eclipse award and already assured of another Eclipse, was supplemented to the race again and shipped all the way across country to face 3/5 favorite Go for Wand on that one's home track. That's bold. Running a horse that's an overwhelming favorite, whether it's 1/2 or 6/5, is not bold.

[Smooth Operator]

Author makes some good points in that ESPN article ... and doesn't even mention the fact that EB didn't survive her rendezvous in the Derby ... and the fact that R2R was pretty much finished after her all-out effort in the '07 Belmont.



Can understand why RA is the ML fav in this weekend's contest

Not sure why some consider her such an "overwhelming" fav, tho...

[Coach Pants]

Author makes some good points in that ESPN article ... and doesn't even mention the fact that EB didn't survive her rendezvous in the Derby ... and the fact that R2R was pretty much finished after her all-out effort in the '07 Belmont.



Can understand why RA is the ML fav in this weekend's contest

Not sure why some consider her such an "overwhelming" fav, tho...

You should take your S&P earnings and invest in this...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LASIK

[freddymo]

Azeri would be odds on in this edition of the Woodward.
Not taking anything away from RA. If she wins it will be a feather in her cap. But i still maintain that running any horse in any race where you are 1/2 on the morning line isnt a real stretch.


This is so bizzarre what do the odds have to do with anything. In what race on dirt would Rachel be more then 4/5??? Name the field at 9's?

[freddymo]

It has nothing to do with her "greatness" or any measure of it. It has to do with the fact that she is an overwhelming fav over the field she is facing. Running a overwhelming fav doesnt make you bold in my opinion. It makes you smart. This is a pretty logical spot for her as was the Haskell. The fact that it is against males is interesting and a bit historic but come on, this isnt like taking on Mike Tyson his his prime.

Chuck nothing has been logical in her campaign. They bought a filly for a pile of money. Instead of keeping her in company that brought her to a race that she whipped the KY Derby winner, Santa Deby winner running by far the toughest race. Then they go back to the girls were she is suppose to race and she crushes albeit zero but she crushes. Then off to the HASKELL and when has this been the logical next step for the Oak's and Goose winner? She beats the Belmont winner who comes back to validate his Grade 1 abilty with a strong winning run in the Travers. So back to her logical campaign after the Haskell they prep a 3 year old filly to race against older handicapped horse. UHM how the F is that logical? You are confussing logic from giving your superstar every opportunity to do what very few of her breed have ever attempted nevermind succeeded at. You want to suggest that you feel that as a horseman and given your take on Rachel's abilty that you feel she will have no problem handling older handicap horses and that while this is rare it speaks to both her immense abilty and the subpar nature of the current handicap division fine , but logical NO that simply is a very poor characterization.

[Cannon Shell]

Chuck nothing has been logical in her campaign. They bought a filly for a pile of money. Instead of keeping her in company that brought her to a race that she whipped the KY Derby winner, Santa Deby winner running by far the toughest race. Then they go back to the girls were she is suppose to race and she crushes albeit zero but she crushes. Then off to the HASKELL and when has this been the logical next step for the Oak's and Goose winner? She beats the Belmont winner who comes back to validate his Grade 1 abilty with a strong winning run in the Travers. So back to her logical campaign after the Haskell they prep a 3 year old filly to race against older handicapped horse. UHM how the F is that logical? You are confussing logic from giving your superstar every opportunity to do what very few of her breed have ever attempted nevermind succeeded at. You want to suggest that you feel that as a horseman and given your take on Rachel's abilty that you feel she will have no problem handling older handicap horses and that while this is rare it speaks to both her immense abilty and the subpar nature of the current handicap division fine , but logical NO that simply is a very poor characterization.

It is logical to run in the best races for the most money when you have the best horse. When is the last time a 3 yo filly was clearly the best horse in the country in May of her three year old year? Please explain to me why running a horse in a spot where she is clearly the best horse and in fine shape physically not a logical idea? Her being a three year old filly makes it unusual however the Woodward is the best spot for her to not only run and win but to complete a theoretical checklist of her owners aspirations. If Seattle Slew and Affirmed were in this years version of the Woodward I would say that this would not be a logical spot. Not to mention they have the reay made excuse that she is tired from a long campaign (check out Jacksons comments) and that she is taking on older horses. Why wouldnt the Woodward be a logical spot?

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

i think they have pointed her perfectly..she wins here then..only then they try the bc.and shut up the zenyatta bs. how in the world can people even put those two on the same page in the hoy. todd t shrupp said that the voters are "east coast biased" wtf? she has done everything from win the oaks take on the boys win and now the older ones too.. if she wins id love to see her go to the bc just to shut up the fruit n nutz crowd that is saying
zenyatta is in the same zipcode as her..fn please

[freddymo]

It is logical to run in the best races for the most money when you have the best horse. When is the last time a 3 yo filly was clearly the best horse in the country in May of her three year old year? Please explain to me why running a horse in a spot where she is clearly the best horse and in fine shape physically not a logical idea? Her being a three year old filly makes it unusual however the Woodward is the best spot for her to not only run and win but to complete a theoretical checklist of her owners aspirations. If Seattle Slew and Affirmed were in this years version of the Woodward I would say that this would not be a logical spot. Not to mention they have the reay made excuse that she is tired from a long campaign (check out Jacksons comments) and that she is taking on older horses. Why wouldnt the Woodward be a logical spot?

When has it ever been? Races are written specific for females so that they compete against their own kind. Now if money was the issue why wouldn't she run in the Penn Derby. Imagine her odds in that dog biscuit race. When you are the best horse in the land(dirt) every race is logical because you are the most likely winner. So I guess your contention is mute because every single 9f dirt race in America is a logical spot for her. I guess when you are the best horse regardless of gender you become the most logical horse in the country.

As for Jess's aspirations...who cares I don't give a dam all I want is to see his filly race and in spots that can hopefully make her maximize her gift. So if Jess and his checklist don't get in the way of that then I hope he continues to push the envelope.. Your issue is you don't think they are pushing the envelope at all.To the contrary, you believe that Jess and friends are orchestratiing a fraud like campaign. One which is overrated and over hyped. I suggest they are pushing a 3 year old filly as hard and tough as sanely acceptable.
Now Zenyatta who I adore as well is a kept managed and potential fraud of a champion. Racing suffers because of Sheriffs and his million and 1 excuses for not shipping.

[Cannon Shell]

When has it ever been? Races are written specific for females so that they compete against their own kind. Now if money was the issue why wouldn't she run in the Penn Derby. Imagine her odds in that dog biscuit race. When you are the best horse in the land(dirt) every race is logical because you are the most likely winner. So I guess your contention is mute because every single 9f dirt race in America is a logical spot for her. I guess when you are the best horse regardless of gender you become the most logical horse in the country.

As for Jess's aspirations...who cares I don't give a dam all I want is to see his filly race and in spots that can hopefully make her maximize her gift. So if Jess and his checklist don't get in the way of that then I hope he continues to push the envelope.. Your issue is you don't think they are pushing the envelope at all.To the contrary, you believe that Jess and friends are orchestratiing a fraud like campaign. One which is overrated and over hyped. I suggest they are pushing a 3 year old filly as hard and tough as sanely acceptable.
Now Zenyatta who I adore as well is a kept managed and potential fraud of a champion. Racing suffers because of Sheriffs and his million and 1 excuses for not shipping.
At no point did I say anything like that. People here love to put words in the mouth of others. If I put forth a scenario where Summer Bird captures horse of the year it isnt a knock on the filly. It is simply a scenario.

Freddy you need to get a grip. The strange set of circumstances that have taken place make the Woodward the ideal spot to run this horse. Is that a better word? There has never been a three year old dirt filly that was clearly the best horse in America at this point. The Woodward accomplishes everything that Jackson wants to do just as the Haskell made her the clear leader in the HoY race and established her as the best horse in the country regardless of sex or age. The Penn Derby isnt even a grade 1. The Woodward has prestige despite the obviously subpar field facing the filly. Not to mention avoids going an unknown distance of 1 1/4 and also avoids a further confrontation with horses she has already beaten. It is simply a logical spot.

As for your contention that I am saying that her campaign is a fraud,I have no idea where you get that. What I am saying is that it is easier to push the envelope when you are facing moderate competition that makes you an odds on choice everytime. I think that the race will be interesting with her in it. I also think that she will win and it will be her last race of the year. her campaign next year will be interesting to say the least. Of course if JJ had racings best interests in mind he would plot out his races beforehand and let the public know where she will run as opposed to all this secretive bs that he does now.

[CSC]

I don't know what it is Chuck, but to intimate that another horse can beat Rachel is almost like you are insulting Christ on this forum. I was really in the weeds at work today and really I shouldn't have been posting but I had to defend myself for simply believing that Summer Bird could beat Rachel Alexandra if they ever met again. It's truly mindboggling around here.

[zippyneedsawin]

It has nothing to do with her "greatness" or any measure of it. It has to do with the fact that she is an overwhelming fav over the field she is facing. Running a overwhelming fav doesnt make you bold in my opinion. It makes you smart. This is a pretty logical spot for her as was the Haskell. The fact that it is against males is interesting and a bit historic but come on, this isnt like taking on Mike Tyson his his prime.

Aside from running on the turf or Synthetic, what dirt race is out there right now that RA wouldn't be an overwhelming favorite?

[Cannon Shell]

Aside from running on the turf or Synthetic, what dirt race is out there right now that RA wouldn't be an overwhelming favorite?
Which is exactly my point. So when people say how courageous it is of Jackson to run in the Woodward remember that.

[freddymo]

At no point did I say anything like that. People here love to put words in the mouth of others. If I put forth a scenario where Summer Bird captures horse of the year it isnt a knock on the filly. It is simply a scenario.

Freddy you need to get a grip. The strange set of circumstances that have taken place make the Woodward the ideal spot to run this horse. Is that a better word? There has never been a three year old dirt filly that was clearly the best horse in America at this point. The Woodward accomplishes everything that Jackson wants to do just as the Haskell made her the clear leader in the HoY race and established her as the best horse in the country regardless of sex or age. The Penn Derby isnt even a grade 1. The Woodward has prestige despite the obviously subpar field facing the filly. Not to mention avoids going an unknown distance of 1 1/4 and also avoids a further confrontation with horses she has already beaten. It is simply a logical spot.

As for your contention that I am saying that her campaign is a fraud,I have no idea where you get that. What I am saying is that it is easier to push the envelope when you are facing moderate competition that makes you an odds on choice everytime. I think that the race will be interesting with her in it. I also think that she will win and it will be her last race of the year. her campaign next year will be interesting to say the least. Of course if JJ had racings best interests in mind he would plot out his races beforehand and let the public know where she will run as opposed to all this secretive bs that he does now.


The Preakness was ideal, The Haskell and it's strange set of circumtances was ideal, and ole and behold the prestigous Woodward is now ideal. What a wonderful stroke of luck for Rachel and Jess. The noise doesn't mean sheit to me. All I care about is her performance. I hope he crushes in the Woodward. I hope the nay sayers then go after the lack of a quality field. I hope she heads to Belmont after the Woodward and races in the Beldame.. I am quite sure that she has HoY locked up with a Woodward win. There is nothing any horse can do to spot her from winning that if she wins the Woodward.

I don't think you have ever given the filly just due. I think you have let your disdain of the connections taint your objectivity. What could be in your posts is representations of just how special she is in relation to the 10's of thousands of horses you have been around.

[freddymo]

Which is exactly my point. So when people say how courageous it is of Jackson to run in the Woodward remember that.

Funny way of expressing your admiration for Rachel.

[Cannon Shell]

The Preakness was ideal, The Haskell and it's strange set of circumtances was ideal, and ole and behold the prestigous Woodward is now ideal. What a wonderful stroke of luck for Rachel and Jess. The noise doesn't mean sheit to me. All I care about is her performance. I hope he crushes in the Woodward. I hope the nay sayers then go after the lack of a quality field. I hope she heads to Belmont after the Woodward and races in the Beldame.. I am quite sure that she has HoY locked up with a Woodward win. There is nothing any horse can do to spot her from winning that if she wins the Woodward.

I don't think you have ever given the filly just due. I think you have let your disdain of the connections taint your objectivity. What could be in your posts is representations of just how special she is in relation to the 10's of thousands of horses you have been around.
The Preakness was a balsy move. Which is something I have posted here. The other races were logical.
I have not given the filly her due? Since when? When exactly have I knocked her. What about the times where i called her a truly great horse? How many times have I said that about a horse in the current era? I am seemingly one of the few who ARE being objective about the horse.

[Cannon Shell]

Funny way of expressing your admiration for Rachel.
What does this say negative? That she would be odds on against any field on the dirt? How do you construe negativty about the horse from that? Did you forget your meds today?

[freddymo]

What does this say negative? That she would be odds on against any field on the dirt? How do you construe negativty about the horse from that? Did you forget your meds today?
A.. Stop with logical it is not becoming.
B. you are dealing with a once in a generation horse this isnt my beloved Smarty Jones this is a premier rocket

[freddymo]

Hi may name is Cannon Shell/Iagree that Rachel is a superior horse..Not sure I have seen a filly asgood as her since PE.. This girl is a freak she refuses to lose..

[CSC]

Hi may name is Cannon Shell/Iagree that Rachel is a superior horse..Not sure I have seen a filly asgood as her since PE.. This girl is a freak she refuses to lose..

If Zenyatta was in here and she beat this field would you the same admiration for her as you would RA? Or is that admiration strictly reserved for RA?

[Cannon Shell]

A.. Stop with logical it is not becoming.
B. you are dealing with a once in a generation horse this isnt my beloved Smarty Jones this is a premier rocket
You continue to make my point for me. If you are in charge of a once in a generation horse why wouldnt the Haskell and Woodward be logical spots? You do understand the meaning of logical dont you? Or maybe i will put it to you in a different manner. What is illogical about her competing in those races?

[Cannon Shell]

Hi may name is Cannon Shell/Iagree that Rachel is a superior horse..Not sure I have seen a filly asgood as her since PE.. This girl is a freak she refuses to lose..
Hi my name is Freddy, I am a logic hater. I hated philosophy. I hate that damn Spock. I used logic when defending Paragallo and look where THAT got me.

[Cannon Shell]

If Zenyatta was in here and she beat this field would you the same admiration for her as you would RA? Or is that admiration strictly reserved for RA?
I personally think RA is a superior horse to Zenyatta.

[CSC]

I personally think RA is a superior horse to Zenyatta.

I do too, but my point was if Zenyatta won would she be criticized for beating a tier 2 group of males that RA will no doubt be lauded for beating.

[ddthetide]

You continue to make my point for me. If you are in charge of a once in a generation horse why wouldnt the Haskell and Woodward be logical spots? You do understand the meaning of logical dont you? Or maybe i will put it to you in a different manner. What is illogical about her competing in those races? CS, why do you argue with freddy? he knows sooo much more about racing than you do. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :wf

[10 pnt move up]

I do too, but my point was if Zenyatta won would she be criticized for beating a tier 2 group of males that RA will no doubt be lauded for beating.

tier 2 group? Who is the tier 1 group?

[Sightseek]

I do too, but my point was if Zenyatta won would she be criticized for beating a tier 2 group of males that RA will no doubt be lauded for beating.

Zenyatta beats nothing and she is hailed as the Queen - so yes, probably.

[Danzig]

If Zenyatta was in here and she beat this field would you the same admiration for her as you would RA? Or is that admiration strictly reserved for RA?


i wish she was there. that way, instead of us all talking about it, we could see it all unfold. it would launch zenyatta into the same stratosphere that rachel is currently residing.

[NTamm1215]

I do too, but my point was if Zenyatta won would she be criticized for beating a tier 2 group of males that RA will no doubt be lauded for beating.

Why would that happen?

If you're trying to say that the competition Zenyatta has faced is unfairly criticized then I couldn't possibly disagree more. The horses Zenyatta beat last time out are not good.

NT

[Danzig]

I do too, but my point was if Zenyatta won would she be criticized for beating a tier 2 group of males that RA will no doubt be lauded for beating.


since many are saying it's not a good field of older horses, and the race is made for rachel due to her morning line, i don't see how she'll be lauded if she wins...except for the fact she'll have done something no filly ever has done, win the woodward.

things is, years from now the field won't be mentioned-no one remembers anyone but the winner. it's the main reason why i say you can't judge a horses standing until their done and gone to pasture for a while. the great ones are the ones you remember.

[Cannon Shell]

CS, why do you argue with freddy? he knows sooo much more about racing than you do. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :wf
Freddy is no dummy when it comes to racing (except concerning his love affair with Shug/Phipps) but he seems to think that running a horse in a spot where they are the overwhelming fav isnt a logical spot. I think that harping on the fact that she is a three year old filly marginalizes her at this point. She isnt simply a great three year old filly. She is the best horse in America, therefore the best races which the Haskell and Woodward represent are logical spots. It is unheard of in sports which is the reason that he persists in arguing. If a Woman version of Usain Bolt was winning in faster times than the men wouldnt it be logical that she would challenge men sprinters? Wouldnt she become a way bigger star by beating men and becoming the worlds fastest human rather than persisting in beating upon the overmatched girls?

[10 pnt move up]

Why would that happen?

If you're trying to say that the competition Zenyatta has faced is unfairly criticized then I couldn't possibly disagree more. The horses Zenyatta beat last time out are not good.

NT

Zenyatta sucks, why does she get brought up in a Woodward thread?

[Cannon Shell]

tier 2 group? Who is the tier 1 group?
Opt 75 claimers at Delaware

[CSC]

CS, why do you argue with freddy? he knows sooo much more about racing than you do. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :wf

Oh thank you...that means so much to me.

Freddy obviously knows alot about racing, that is why I bother talking with him so I can set him straight.


Edit-You mean't Cannon, my mistake. It's getting late...

[CSC]

Why would that happen?

If you're trying to say that the competition Zenyatta has faced is unfairly criticized then I couldn't possibly disagree more. The horses Zenyatta beat last time out are not good.

NT

Yes Zenyatta has had a joke of a campaign, I would never defend that shed.

Also I think alot of posters should read Chuck's posts today, I agree(how's that for a change) with alot of what he has said today. I don't disrespect RA as a horse but I believe she needs one more race with some risk in it along the vein of the Preakness to atleast get me aboard with the RA club, The JCGC would earn the rest of my respect if it can't be the BC.

[CSC]

tier 2 group? Who is the tier 1 group?

One can only hope that's the JCGC.

[10 pnt move up]

One can only hope that's the JCGC.

Isnt it going to be basically this same group?

Who, by name, is in the tier 1 group of dirt horses?

[CSC]

Zenyatta beats nothing and she is hailed as the Queen - so yes, probably.

Touche. I'm speechless...

[CSC]

i wish she was there. that way, instead of us all talking about it, we could see it all unfold. it would launch zenyatta into the same stratosphere that rachel is currently residing.

I already replied to you on the other thread, I am tired but yes it would launch her, however those connections have their own ideas. A real shame.

[CSC]

Isnt it going to be basically this same group?

Who, by name, is in the tier 1 group of dirt horses?

The one that won the Travers is 99.99% sure and the one that finished 3rd is a maybe. I'll take those 2 to start, maybe the derby winner. Dry Martini..

[10 pnt move up]

The one that won the Travers is 99.99% sure and the one that finished 3rd is a maybe. I'll take those 2 to start, maybe the derby winner. Dry Martini..

What have you seen from Summer Bird to think he is more than in a fight to be the best of a very average group? I do like quality road's talent, give him a pass, but again its not like he is anything special.

[Danzig]

I already replied to you on the other thread, I am tired but yes it would launch her, however those connections have their own ideas. A real shame.


yeah, it really is a shame. her win streak is pretty cool-but i almost feel like zenyatta is being cheated in a way. maybe if/when she ties personal ensign, they'll try something new with her.

[Danzig]

What have you seen from Summer Bird to think he is more than in a fight to be the best of a very average group? I do like quality road's talent, give him a pass, but again its not like he is anything special.

hard to say yet what these colts will turn out to be. hopefully many will be around for a year or so to add to their resumes. summer bird is the best of the bunch, and may still have some upside to him-he's been a bit of a late starter. i hope he runs next year. but too soon to say if these guys are average, a bit above or a bit below. definitely some speed in this bunch.

[freddymo]

Hi my name is Freddy, I am a logic hater. I hated philosophy. I hate that damn Spock. I used logic when defending Paragallo and look where THAT got me.

I love Spock. Always thought Capt. Kirk was a bit of a blow hard.

I didn't defend Paragallo per say I thought it was impossible for a human who was earning from horses to knowingly starve them.

[freddymo]

You continue to make my point for me. If you are in charge of a once in a generation horse why wouldnt the Haskell and Woodward be logical spots? You do understand the meaning of logical dont you? Or maybe i will put it to you in a different manner. What is illogical about her competing in those races?


The Woodward is a very agressive spot and risky.You own a 3 year old filly that seems to be indestructable. She has beaten the best 3 year old males twice. It is a very "sporting" thing for racing for Rachel to attempt to win the Woodward. You say what do you mean she is the ML favorite, why the heck is this just another good spot for her. Which in my opinion totally misses essence of what she and her connections are doing for racing.

Think about it this way the Sherriffs and the Moss's still haven't tried a huge mare that is plenty good against anything but the sofest logical spots. And you have people like Ron Ellis applauding the process. A filly running in the Woodward is special.

Just read the Crist piece unlike me who cant but a cogent thought on paper to save my life Crist realizes the magnitude of the campaign.

[freddymo]

Oh thank you...that means so much to me.

Freddy obviously knows alot about racing, that is why I bother talking with him so I can set him straight.


Edit-You mean't Cannon, my mistake. It's getting late...


CS was meant to be Cannon Shell not you. I respect Cannon Shell a lot and am not arguing with. We have different points of view and discuss them. I understand your points as well. Just because people have different understandings of a situation or horse doesn't mean they are hostile or disrespectful to others ideas.

[CSC]

CS was meant to be Cannon Shell not you. I respect Cannon Shell a lot and am not arguing with. We have different points of view and discuss them. I understand your points as well. Just because people have different understandings of a situation or horse doesn't mean they are hostile or disrespectful to others ideas.

Well said, alot of people have alot of good viewpoints here. We can all learn something from everyone and I have.

[Antitrust32]

I do too, but my point was if Zenyatta won would she be criticized for beating a tier 2 group of males that RA will no doubt be lauded for beating.


that is so not true. If we ever got the chance to see Zenyatta race against anything but that crappy division she races in EVERY sSingle race she would get the respect she deserves.

Its more distain against Zenyatta's connections for not letting us fans and race followers see how good she truely is. You cant prove anything in the races she's been running in besides the BC Distaff.

[Travis Stone]

Wow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[GPK]

Wow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Holy Mother of God....Amazing.

[Sightseek]

Yea baby!!! :{>:

[freddymo]

Borel did everything he could to get her beat

[Travis Stone]

I think she even still galloped-out ahead of Macho Again? Wow.

[jwkniska]

Wow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'll 2nd that!

[Sightseek]

Borel had her out pretty far most of the race - did the track seem better there?

[freddymo]

Borel had her out pretty far most of the race - did the track seem better there?

Borel is an idiot all he had to do was rate with her the first half and she wins by 3 or 4. Instead the guy gets hooked in a speed duel???

[Cannon Shell]

Borel is an idiot all he had to do was rate with her the first half and she wins by 3 or 4. Instead the guy gets hooked in a speed duel???
It may be a little harder to do that than you think...

and it wasnt much of a speed duel either.

[tiggerv]

22.85, 46.41, 1:10.54, 1:35.48, 1:48.29

She went out in under 23 and still came home in under 13.

[boswd]

Heart pounding. Her most impressive win of the year, it looked like Macho Again had her mid way in the stretch but she fought back and held on.

Macho Again ran a great race as well, 1st in the Stephen Foster, 2nd in the Whitney and 2nd in the Woodward. Looks like he will love the 1 1/4 JCGC.

But the Princess is now The Queen.

[freddymo]

It may be a little harder to do that than you think...

and it wasnt much of a speed duel either.

We have seen her rate before.. The ride was comical. If you don't recognize how absurd it was then you'll need to consult people who's opinion you respect on race riding. We all knew Borel could get her beat and he did his very very best.

[Coach Pants]

It was a tard ride of the ages but she's just too damn good. Lucky for Borel she is.

[fpsoxfan]

Very Fun to watch! She has nothing left to prove. One of the best females that I've seen in my 20 years of following the sport.

[dalakhani]

We have seen her rate before.. The ride was comical. If you don't recognize how absurd it was then you'll need to consult people who's opinion you respect on race riding. We all knew Borel could get her beat and he did his very very best.

Is it possible that she might have been a little rank?

[Cannon Shell]

We have seen her rate before.. The ride was comical. If you don't recognize how absurd it was then you'll need to consult people who's opinion you respect on race riding. We all knew Borel could get her beat and he did his very very best.
I love when you guys say they should just rate her. If he had got her bottled up and steadied or checked then you would complain too. He rode her as good as he could considering the circumstances. If the first fraction was .17 slower no one would even notice the fraction. I'm sure Turcotte got Secretariat beat by Onion too right?

[Cannon Shell]

Is it possible that she might have been a little rank?
No because he let her run a little. You know when you notice horses are rank? When the riders are in their mouths. If he had grabbed ahold of her like freddy he would complain about strangling her.

[fpsoxfan]

I love when you guys say they should just rate her. If he had got her bottled up and steadied or checked then you would complain too. He rode her as good as he could considering the circumstances. If the first fraction was .17 slower no one would even notice the fraction. I'm sure Turcotte got Secretariat beat by Onion too right?

Great point Chuck! No doubt it was a better ride than most would think.

[TheSpyder]

Can't see anything wrong with the ride and horse is something unreal. Where did all the other horses that were on the pace end up? Way, way back.

The horse is amazing.

[freddymo]

No because he let her run a little. You know when you notice horses are rank? When the riders are in their mouths. If he had grabbed ahold of her like freddy he would complain about strangling her.
You don't have to grab anything this filly has proven she is capable of rating. The ride was ridiculous, you will hear this from every single intelligent and respected handicapper in the industry PERIOD.

[Cannon Shell]

You don't have to grab anything this filly has proven she is capable of rating. The ride was ridiculous, you will hear this from every single intelligent and respected handicapper in the industry PERIOD.
I dont care what any handicapper says, horses arent the same everytime they step on the track. Is it possible to read into Jacksons comments that she was a little tired coming into the race and possibly Assmussen went a little lighter on her than usual which can lead to horses being too keyed up on race day? They arent machines, there is no brakes and a free running horse like she is is better going fast than being strangled.

[Travis Stone]

The ride was never going to be easy today.

I'm just happy Jess Jackson bought her and we were able to enjoy a race like the one today.

[freddymo]

I love when you guys say they should just rate her. If he had got her bottled up and steadied or checked then you would complain too. He rode her as good as he could considering the circumstances. If the first fraction was .17 slower no one would even notice the fraction. I'm sure Turcotte got Secretariat beat by Onion too right?


Per Crist:

Her narrow margin over Macho Again, a G1 winner but a horse who has never been mistaken for Man o'War, was deceptive. Rachel Alexandra's pace -- 22.85, 46.41, 1:10.54, and 1:35.48 -- was sensationally fast for a nine-furlong race at Saratoga, and when Macho Again came running at her late, he would have gone right by any ordinary racehorse. But Rachel Alexandra had something left, running her final furlong in 12.81 to turn back the challenge.

Not much of a speed duel..Crist knows SENSATIONALLY FAST when he sees it I am sure CJ and DrugS will post the PACE FIG's which are going to lights out..

Your funny if it was .17 slower nobody would notice.

[Cannon Shell]

Per Crist:

Her narrow margin over Macho Again, a G1 winner but a horse who has never been mistaken for Man o'War, was deceptive. Rachel Alexandra's pace -- 22.85, 46.41, 1:10.54, and 1:35.48 -- was sensationally fast for a nine-furlong race at Saratoga, and when Macho Again came running at her late, he would have gone right by any ordinary racehorse. But Rachel Alexandra had something left, running her final furlong in 12.81 to turn back the challenge.

Not much of a speed duel..Crist knows SENSATIONALLY FAST when he sees it I am CJ and DrugS will post the PACE FIG's which are going to lights out..

Your funny if it was .17 slower nobody would notice.
Get a grip. No one said it wasnt fast. Going fast early is how most races are won isnt it? That is how the horse runs, plain and simple. If the fracions were 23, 46.41 there would be a whole lot less hysteria about the pace.

[freddymo]

I dont care what any handicapper says, horses arent the same everytime they step on the track. Is it possible to read into Jacksons comments that she was a little tired coming into the race and possibly Assmussen went a little lighter on her than usual which can lead to horses being too keyed up on race day? They arent machines, there is no brakes and a free running horse like she is is better going fast than being strangled.

So now we need to GUESS about how she felt today..Ok Dr Doolittle..The Jock gave her head because he knew that was the only way she could win.. Borel please it was a complete bone head ride. Scav would have won by 3 on her..And likes to be ridden

[Cannon Shell]

So now we need to GUESS about how she felt today..Ok Dr Doolittle..The Jock gave her head because he knew that was the only way she could win.. Borel please it was a complete bone head ride. Scav would have won by 3 on her..And likes to be ridden
Did you not see her before the race? How do you know he wasnt told to go to the front? Assmussen is an expert instruction giver. He was a jockey you know?

[tector]

So now we need to GUESS about how she felt today..Ok Dr Doolittle..The Jock gave her head because he knew that was the only way she could win.

Interesting technique.

[freddymo]

Get a grip. No one said it wasnt fast. Going fast early is how most races are won isnt it? That is how the horse runs, plain and simple. If the fracions were 23, 46.41 there would be a whole lot less hysteria about the pace.

The pace was wicked fast..Move on Sir..

[Cannon Shell]

The pace was wicked fast..Move on Sir..
The ride was fine. You should be complaining about the 7 boneheads in the Linda Rice fixer on the turf in the 4th.

[freddymo]

Did you not see her before the race? How do you know he wasnt told to go to the front? Assmussen is an expert instruction giver. He was a jockey you know?


Ok now I am to believe that Assmussen didn't read the program and recognize the Bullet work on Ta Dara or his role in the race.. So now one on the most successful trainers in land told Borel go hook DaTara wide because Rachel is a little tired eventhough Terry has been in print that she is fresher then ever..Where did you buy these beans the same place that Jack bought his?

[Cannon Shell]

Ok now I am to believe that Assmussen didn't read the program and recognize the Bullet work on Ta Dara or his role in the race.. So now one on the most successful trainers in land told Borel go hook DaTara wide because Rachel is a little tired eventhough Terry has been in print that she is fresher then ever..Where did you buy these beans the same place that Jack bought his?
Perhaps he told him to keep her out of trouble or in the clear?

[zippyneedsawin]

replay...



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrTMpHvew0U

[freddymo]

Perhaps he told him to keep her out of trouble or in the clear?
Chuck do you typically ask your jocks to get your horses in trouble?

[Cannon Shell]

Chuck do you typically ask your jocks to get your horses in trouble?

That is not pertinent. I do ask that they stay out of trouble with a horse with her free running style.

[freddymo]

The ride was fine. You should be complaining about the 7 boneheads in the Linda Rice fixer on the turf in the 4th.
You are on top of your game today..

Per Crist on the 4th race:
Dominguez and Rice-trained Mother Russia put the field asleep behind them wiring the 4th, but the official fractions of 25.19, 49.94, 1:14.37 and 1:36.47 mean that the front-runner ran progressively faster quarters of 25.19, 24.75, 24.43 and 22.10. This would also mean that Exclusive Scheme, who closed two lengths in th final quarter to be third, came home in something like 21.75. I'm just not buying it.

[freddymo]

That is not pertinent. I do ask that they stay out of trouble with a horse with her free running style.

She isn't a NEED the lead horse did you watch the Goose or the Haskell?

[Cannon Shell]

You are on top of your game today..

Per Crisrt on the 4th race:
Dominguez and Rice-trained Mother Russia put the field asleep behind them wiring the 4th, but the official fractions of 25.19, 49.94, 1:14.37 and 1:36.47 mean that the front-runner ran progressively faster quarters of 25.19, 24.75, 24.43 and 22.10. This would also mean that Exclusive Scheme, who closed two lengths in th final quarter to be third, came home in something like 21.75. I'm just not buying it.
That was a Jerry Bailey special. He is on the main speed and everyone takes back and concedes the race.

[Cannon Shell]

She isn't a NEED the lead horse did you watch the Goose or the Haskell?
She also isnt a horse that wants to be sitting behind, bottled up behind D'Tara and Past his Prime.

[Cannon Shell]

You are on top of your game today..

Per Crisrt on the 4th race:
Dominguez and Rice-trained Mother Russia put the field asleep behind them wiring the 4th, but the official fractions of 25.19, 49.94, 1:14.37 and 1:36.47 mean that the front-runner ran progressively faster quarters of 25.19, 24.75, 24.43 and 22.10. This would also mean that Exclusive Scheme, who closed two lengths in th final quarter to be third, came home in something like 21.75. I'm just not buying it.
Arent the races still hand timed on the turf?

[freddymo]

That was a Jerry Bailey special. He is on the main speed and everyone takes back and concedes the race.
Perhaps we should wait till the real fractions are rep'd..Until the data is corrected you and I are completely guessing.

[Cannon Shell]

Perhaps we should wait till the real fractions are rep'd..Until the data is corrected you and I are completely guessing.
They looked like they were walking. Funny they showed a race from this summer at Belmont (an allowance I think) and Mother Russia was stopping like D'Tara down the stretch. Now she is the new female version of Win

[Travis Stone]

Early position relative to finish position... insane...

1st Rachel Alexandra
8th Macho Again
6th Bullsbay
7th Asiatic Boy
5th It's a Bird
3rd Past the Point
4th Cool Coal Man
2nd Da' Tara

[freddymo]

She also isnt a horse that wants to be sitting behind, bottled up behind D'Tara and Past his Prime.
Why are these horse different than any of the other horses she has rated behind in the past even as a 2 year old? Bottled up? all she had to do was not press the lead. Now we have to assume she would get bottled up..What was this a 5.5f turf sprint.. The only and I mean only possible excuse for this absurd trip is the horse was so rank that she would not settle. I saw her act up in the parade but ever so slightly Borel lost his balance he wasn't tossed off. She looked absolutely fine once they broke and wasn't even afforded the thought of settling off the pace. If bailey was on her she would have won by five. He would have sat her 3rd or 4th on the outside of the horrendous speed and sent her at the 3/4 pole and laughed thru the lane.

[freddymo]

They looked like they were walking. Funny they showed a race from this summer at Belmont (an allowance I think) and Mother Russia was stopping like D'Tara down the stretch. Now she is the new female version of Win

I have no love for magic Rice pudding either..trust me it's gross.. i wonder how or if she can tell one turf sprinter from the other in the barn. They may all be the same dam horse for all I know..lol

[freddymo]

Early position relative to finish position... insane...

1st Rachel Alexandra
8th Macho Again
6th Bullsbay
7th Asiatic Boy
5th It's a Bird
3rd Past the Point
4th Cool Coal Man
2nd Da' Tara


Cool Coal Man is a pretty decent sort.. The pace was ridiculous, the ride was absurd and a filly overcame it all.. She is friggin amazing.

[Cannon Shell]

Her race was pretty damn good today.
But not quite as good as this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPezwDz9MC8

[RockHardTen1985]

Her race was pretty damn good today.
But not quite as good as this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPezwDz9MC8

Did she regress today? Machos top beyer EVER was a 105 last time out, so even if he jumped again to a new top of 110, she still came back off her 116? Im just curious, did she run over a 116, beyer wise?

[hockey2315]

Her performance obviously isn't going to be quantifiable w/ just a straight beyer.

[CSC]

Early position relative to finish position... insane...

1st Rachel Alexandra
8th Macho Again
6th Bullsbay
7th Asiatic Boy
5th It's a Bird
3rd Past the Point
4th Cool Coal Man
2nd Da' Tara

However, could it be the horse that is the speed of the speed horses that usually stays on better than the one's that are chasing, I thought Borel's ride was fine yesterday, his only other choice would have been to have taken her back and she looked like she was too much on her game today to take the chance of getting into a wrestling match with.

[geeker2]

Her race was pretty damn good today.
But not quite as good as this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPezwDz9MC8


:tro: I forgot how exciting that race was :tro:

[Travis Stone]

I thought Borel's ride was fine yesterday, his only other choice would have been to have taken her back and she looked like she was too much on her game today to take the chance of getting into a wrestling match with.

I agree... Borel did fine.

[Bigsmc]

Her race was pretty damn good today.
But not quite as good as this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPezwDz9MC8

Commanche Trail > D'Tara

Durkin's call was better in '94 too.

[TouchOfGrey]

Someone on YouTube posted a video of Rachel unseating Calvin (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnR3tu2zKog) during the post parade.