Tips/Thoughts on Breeders' Cup tickets this year?

[westcoastinvader]

Just looking at the calendar and logistics and realizing getting to Santa Anita for the Breeders' Cup is a realistic possibility. It would be my first time at Santa Anita, and it would be my first Breeders' Cup.

Initial search shows tickets went on sale with pre-registration in May.


Any ideas on how easy or difficult it might be to still get into the place for the Saturday card with "standing room only" a very acceptable option?

I'll dig further in a bit, but thought someone here might might have some quick thoughts. Thanks in advance!

[Kasept]

As of 10-14 days ago, there were a couple of thousand seats still available. BCL had held some back and then released them. Check the Cup website to see current status..

[westcoastinvader]

As of 10-14 days ago, there were a couple of thousand seats still available. BCL had held some back and then released them. Check the Cup website to see current status..

Thanks! I've dug a bit further and found pricing....which seems to initially indicate one must buy tickets for both days. For the lower prices that would be fine in this case, though I think I would only be able to be there for Saturday.

Usually at the big races I never sit anyhow. I wander from the best available standing view of the the paddock, to the best available view of trackside starting gate or finish line, and the Winner's Circle.

(come to think of it, that's what I do most any day of attending races.....)

I'm see General Admission at Santa Anita allows paddock viewing, so I guess the trackside ground level viewing is a given?

It has been that way at any other track I've ever attended.

[Revidere]

Thanks! I've dug a bit further and found pricing....which seems to initially indicate one must buy tickets for both days. For the lower prices that would be fine in this case, though I think I would only be able to be there for Saturday.

Usually at the big races I never sit anyhow. I wander from the best available standing view of the the paddock, to the best available view of trackside starting gate or finish line, and the Winner's Circle.

(come to think of it, that's what I do most any day of attending races.....)

I'm see General Admission at Santa Anita allows paddock viewing, so I guess the trackside ground level viewing is a given?

It has been that way at any other track I've ever attended.

I've been to all three BC's at Santa Anita. Its best to roam around. Unless it's changed, General Admission is the way to go. You can go from paddock to apron easily.

[10 pnt move up]

Cant you just by the second day on a site like Stubhub or Razorgator? I have a feeling they wont even bring face value.

[westcoastinvader]

I've been to all three BC's at Santa Anita. Its best to roam around. Unless it's changed, General Admission is the way to go. You can go from paddock to apron easily.

Thanks Revidere. That's what I was hoping to hear.

I think General Admission is only $20 per day....quite reasonable compared to the triple digit prices on most of the seats.

[Revidere]

Thanks Revidere. That's what I was hoping to hear.

I think General Admission is only $20 per day....quite reasonable compared to the triple digit prices on most of the seats.

Anytime. If you dont mind being in midstretch you can even walk right up to the rail.

[Pedigree Ann]

Actually, I've got a friend on another board who will not be able to use her general admission tickets - car trouble ate her airfare/hotel money. Shall I ask her if she still has them on sale for you? Put you guys in touch?

[GBBob]

I've been to all three BC's at Santa Anita. Its best to roam around. Unless it's changed, General Admission is the way to go. You can go from paddock to apron easily.

Absolutely...and I've never paid above face for a BC ticket the day of the race outside, and often below

[westcoastinvader]

Actually, I've got a friend on another board who will not be able to use her general admission tickets - car trouble ate her airfare/hotel money. Shall I ask her if she still has them on sale for you? Put you guys in touch?

Pedigree Ann thanks for the thought.

Certainly if she has difficulty selling them I'd be interested in hearing in a couple of weeks. Of course I'd be looking to pay her the face value she paid for them, with any transaction expenses.

My dilemma is that I likely won't be able to make the decision on going until much closer to race day due to other life stuff.

My advantage is that I just jump in my car and drive down in 4 1/2 to 5 hours, so not much prep needed for me. We have a friend in Pasadena we can stay with if we don't get a decent room close to the track, so I can make the call on race day if need be.

That said, I REALLY want to attend this one.

[smuthg]

Is he going to run at Santa Anita prior to the Breeder's Cup? I realize we're only two weeks out, so I'm assuming that he's not...

[Coach Pants]

Is he going to run at Santa Anita prior to the Breeder's Cup? I realize we're only two weeks out, so I'm assuming that he's not...


...

:zz: :wf

[lemoncrush]

In the Stable notes from the Oaktree website, it said that he may train up to the classic.

Earlier, he was supposed to go in an allowance race this week or this weekend, but unless it's Sunday, that isn't going to happen.

[zippyneedsawin]

HRTV reported earlier this month that he would run in an allowance race on Oct. 12 at Oak Tree. I have no idea if that's still true.

[SniperSB23]

HRTV reported earlier this month that he would run in an allowance race on Oct. 12 at Oak Tree. I have no idea if that's still true.

They said they are training up to the Classic now.

[King Glorious]

And some of you say that I think outside of the box. How ambitious a spotting is this? I LOVE it.

[ShadowRoll]

This notice is to inform you that one or more of your horses has worked out.
Casino Drive

Date: October 9, 2008
Track: HOLLYWOOD PARK
Distance: Five Furlongs
Time: 1.02:00 Breezing
Track Condition: Fast
Surface: All Weather Track
Rank: 8/10

[cakes44]

And some of you say that I think outside of the box. How ambitious a spotting is this? I LOVE it.

I LOVE the dead $$ he'll take!

[pointman]

I LOVE the dead $$ he'll take!

I was just thinking the same thing, PG will be all in!

[letswastemoney]

He only has 2 lifetime starts! This is crazy! He's probably this good....but it's a matter of fitness...and he hasn't raced in a long time.

[King Glorious]

He only has 2 lifetime starts! This is crazy! He's probably this good....but it's a matter of fitness...and he hasn't raced in a long time.

Not saying he's up to it but in other parts of the world, they know how to train horses to be ready off of long layoffs like this. I have this feeling that if he loses here, it won't be because he's not fit.

[Antitrust32]

lol it would be funny if he wins the BC Classic in his 3rd start.

[brockguy]

Not saying he's up to it but in other parts of the world, they know how to train horses to be ready off of long layoffs like this. I have this feeling that if he loses here, it won't be because he's not fit.

Japanese trainers arent the best at it though,,

[Betsy]

I love this horse and I think he's talented, but his owner is insane. I trust the horse to be fit, but not fit for a race like the Classic. What is the point - he's going to get thrashed, very likely. I think he can develop into a very good horse next year, so why not run him in a lesser stakes.....? Well, I guess I can answer my own question; the owner's ego is too big to allow it.

[cowgirlintexas]

lol it would be funny if he wins the BC Classic in his 3rd start.
Be even funnier if he grabbed a quarter again the morning of the race and had to scratch :p ..
(Well not for the horse of course but the owners.)

[King Glorious]

I love this horse and I think he's talented, but his owner is insane. I trust the horse to be fit, but not fit for a race like the Classic. What is the point - he's going to get thrashed, very likely. I think he can develop into a very good horse next year, so why not run him in a lesser stakes.....? Well, I guess I can answer my own question; the owner's ego is too big to allow it.

I'll tell you why I think this is silly. First, either he's fit to run 10f or he isn't. The company he'll be keeping won't have anything to do with his level of fitness. It will be the deciding factor in whether or not he can win but not how fit he is. Second, why would losing here stop him from being a good horse next year? If that's the case, should every horse that loses in the Classic retire immediately because they no longer have a chance of being a good horse next year?

[King Glorious]

Japanese trainers arent the best at it though,,

How long was Deep Impact's layoff before his very strong Arc run?

[Bobby Fischer]

we had better have 14

[brockguy]

How long was Deep Impact's layoff before his very strong Arc run?


from 25th June til the 1st October..

certainly all the very good Japanese performances outside of Asia that I can recall have come with the aid of a prep, the ones that havent gone so well have come without a prep..

[letswastemoney]

I'll tell you why I think this is silly. First, either he's fit to run 10f or he isn't. The company he'll be keeping won't have anything to do with his level of fitness. It will be the deciding factor in whether or not he can win but not how fit he is. Second, why would losing here stop him from being a good horse next year? If that's the case, should every horse that loses in the Classic retire immediately because they no longer have a chance of being a good horse next year?
Well he does have AP Indy in his blood and both of his siblings won the Belmont, so the distance should be up his ally if he's ready. I can see him running a 100 beyer here or so, which probably won't be good enough to win, but maybe in the money.

[Antitrust32]

Well he does have AP Indy in his blood and both of his siblings won the Belmont, so the distance should be up his ally if he's ready. I can see him running a 100 beyer here or so, which probably won't be good enough to win, but maybe in the money.


LOL on the Poly, a 100 beyer is winning the race by 15 lengths. :p

[letswastemoney]

LOL on the Poly, a 100 beyer is winning the race by 15 lengths. :p
Oh come on...I realize synthetic figures are lower but I believe in the BC Classic a 105-110 will take it.

[Antitrust32]

Oh come on...I realize synthetic figures are lower but I believe in the BC Classic a 105-110 will take it.


I wasnt being very serious LOL. How many triple diget beyers have been run on synthetics though?

[King Glorious]

Well he does have AP Indy in his blood and both of his siblings won the Belmont, so the distance should be up his ally if he's ready. I can see him running a 100 beyer here or so, which probably won't be good enough to win, but maybe in the money.

AP Indy retired years ago and I don't see what he did on the track having any factor in this race.

[SniperSB23]

LOL on the Poly, a 100 beyer is winning the race by 15 lengths. :p

Just a guess but I'd actually think the Beyers will be much higher for the BC. The synthetics equalize all horses. So when you have low level horses only running a second slower than stakes horses it is tough to give the stakes horses a big figure and then have to give the low level horses a 90+ figure. When you have a card predominantly made up of stakes horses though then it is easier to give bigger figures since the horses on the card are all capable of running 90+ speed figures.

[Antitrust32]

Just a guess but I'd actually think the Beyers will be much higher for the BC. The synthetics equalize all horses. So when you have low level horses only running a second slower than stakes horses it is tough to give the stakes horses a big figure and then have to give the low level horses a 90+ figure. When you have a card predominantly made up of stakes horses though then it is easier to give bigger figures since the horses on the card are all capable of running 90+ speed figures.

that makes sense. Its funny we are having our championship race run on a surface that makes slow horses look faster and fast horses look slower.

Go Between or Well Armed wins Classic :tro: :zz:

[Indian Charlie]

Casino Drive is running Sunday after all, per DRF.com.

Optional Claiming race.

[Betsy]

I'll tell you why I think this is silly. First, either he's fit to run 10f or he isn't. The company he'll be keeping won't have anything to do with his level of fitness. It will be the deciding factor in whether or not he can win but not how fit he is. Second, why would losing here stop him from being a good horse next year? If that's the case, should every horse that loses in the Classic retire immediately because they no longer have a chance of being a good horse next year?

Good points....I suppose I'm overplaying the "he'll have his confidence crushed " card, lol.

I just found out per the DRF that he's running on Sunday - that makes me feel a lot better.

[ateamstupid]

Sunday:

8TH (4:00)

1 1/16 Miles (All Weather Track) | Open | 3 Year Olds And Up Allowance | Purse: $52,000

Post # Horse Jockey Weight Claim Price Equip. Med.
1 Dakota Phone Bejarano R 120 L
2 Casino Drive Espinoza V 116
3 Gregorian Bay Garcia M 120 L
4 By Spot (BRZ) Valdivia J Jr 120 L
5 Informed Gryder A T 120 L
6 Sensational Score Rosario J 120 L
7 Asperity Sorenson D 120 L

[letswastemoney]

AP Indy retired years ago and I don't see what he did on the track having any factor in this race.Well have you ever seen an AP Indy relative not like a longer distance? If AP Indy specializes in producing long distance runners and Better than Honour has produced 2 Belmont winners already, odds are Casino Drive's best distance will be longer.

[Danzig]

i think steve should have a 'silly' room for threads like this. hey, maybe tomcito can come to the classic too. that would make for a really, really great race.:rolleyes:

[King Glorious]

Well have you ever seen an AP Indy relative not like a longer distance? If AP Indy specializes in producing long distance runners and Better than Honour has produced 2 Belmont winners already, odds are Casino Drive's best distance will be longer.

The odds may indeed be in that direction but they don't tell me what SHOULD happen.

[Quiet Chris]

He probably won't win the race, but he sure as hell could determine who does. If they send this horse to the lead and nobody goes with him, goodbye. Somebody will go with him though and that somebody will probably not been there at the end.

Victor Espinoza is on this horse and you can be sure come Breeders Cup day that he will try to pull off another War Emblem.

This horse will be overbet though because of Japanese money. I wouldn't be shocked if he is the 4th or 5th choice.

[Bobby Fischer]

Sunday:

8TH (4:00)

1 1/16 Miles (All Weather Track) | Open | 3 Year Olds And Up Allowance | Purse: $52,000

Post # Horse Jockey Weight Claim Price Equip. Med.
1 Dakota Phone Bejarano R 120 L
2 Casino Drive Espinoza V 116
3 Gregorian Bay Garcia M 120 L
4 By Spot (BRZ) Valdivia J Jr 120 L
5 Informed Gryder A T 120 L
6 Sensational Score Rosario J 120 L
7 Asperity Sorenson D 120 L

this is no free ride

Sensational Score , and Informed are competitive

[Coach Pants]

I might bridgejump

































I mean literally jump off a bridge if pg AND kyrim show up

[hrfan]

this is no free ride

Sensational Score , and Informed are competitive
i dont want to humor anyone here, but are you serious ?
if he is sound, he wins for fun. this horse has as much Raw Talent as anyone.

[Quiet Chris]

i dont want to humor anyone here, but are you serious ?
if he is sound, he wins for fun. this horse has as much Raw Talent as anyone.

He has as much raw talent as any 3yr old, which isn't saying much. There are some older horses going that appear to have significantly more talent. If this was a 12f race and he had prepped in the JCGC then maybe.

[Kasept]

Best thread ever as of right now, but when hrfan checks in, it belongs in the Hall of Fame.

:)
:tro:


May the circle be unbroken...

[Bobby Fischer]

i dont want to humor anyone here, but are you serious ?
if he is sound, he wins for fun. this horse has as much Raw Talent as anyone.

I really don't know anything about Casino Drive.

He sure looked good in the Peter Pan.

WTF is up with 2 races lifetime?

Does he even like synthetic?

Does he have enough early foot at a mile & sixteenth?

Honestly I hope he looks great Sunday, but I would consider a play against in the multi-race.

[cowgirlintexas]

Best thread ever as of right now, but when hrfan checks in, it belongs in the Hall of Fame.


i dont want to humor anyone here, but are you serious ?
if he is sound, he wins for fun. this horse has as much Raw Talent as anyone.

:D

[Betsy]

I obviously don't think CD has much of a chance in the Classic, but I guess I don't understand why people have to treat him like he's a pig.

He did run a good race in the Peter Pan, overcoming several obstacles to win it.........At the time, most people thought he could develop into a very nice horse. Is this colt getting worse with time or people just don't like him because he got some attention?

[Danzig]

i guess most would rather a horse earn his constant attention, both from bettors and the media, than just garner slavering praise because of who his mama happens to be. two starts, why should the horse even be a subject of discussion regarding the bcc? questioning the thought process of his handlers doesn't equate to him being treated as being a pig.

[Betsy]

i guess most would rather a horse earn his constant attention, both from bettors and the media, than just garner slavering praise because of who his mama happens to be. two starts, why should the horse even be a subject of discussion regarding the bcc? questioning the thought process of his handlers doesn't equate to him being treated as being a pig.


I agree - I don't have a problem with questioning his handlers. I think the constant shipping between Japan and the US is ridiculous. If they think this horse is good, IMO, they should leave him here, let him develop and point for next year's Classic.

I'm not saying that people should slobber over CD - just that now I think the trend is going the other way, that he's now apparently completely untalented.

[letswastemoney]

He's good enough to compete in this years Classic already. Whether he's good enough to win is a different story. The "point to next year's Classic" logic is boring! He's better than Smooth Air.

[docicu3]

Just when you were convinced that perhaps the BC was actually concerned with fans being able to watch the races and follow the position of horses during a race.........THE DREADED PURPLE SADDLE CLOTHS ARE BACK.

In another display of exactly how much disdain there remains for players as reported Friday on ATR with Byk, Rick Hammerle again belatedly made public the intentions of the BC to again 1) refuse to use colored sadlle cloths or 2) pay for state of the art Trakus as is used currently at KE and Del Mar.

Once again the races will be impossible to watch becuase you cannot distinguish one horse from another as is the case in virtually every track in the country.

"I used to get disgusted but now I try and stay amused".....

[letswastemoney]

They really aren't that bad....no one is going to mistake Zenyatta for Hystericalady. You know most of these horses.

And if it's near the finish line and your horse isn't one of the first 4 or so that you can see clearly, you've probably lost all hope anyway.

[ateamstupid]

They really aren't that bad....no one is going to mistake Zenyatta for Hystericalady. You know most of these horses.

And if it's near the finish line and your horse isn't one of the first 4 or so that you can see clearly, you've probably lost all hope anyway.

There's no reason to have them all the same color. Sorry if I'd like to know where my horses are before the finish line.

[Scurlogue Champ]

There's no reason to have them all the same color. Sorry if I'd like to know where my horses are before the finish line.

Look at the silks of your horse, those kind of help.

[ateamstupid]

Look at the silks of your horse, those kind of help.

Want to lend me some binoculars? What if I have multiple horses in the race? It's a little annoying to have to try to ferret out the silks of 3-4 horses and then attempt to follow them all, whereas with Trakus or colored saddlecloths, I could see right away where everyone was.

[the_fat_man]

Want to lend me some binoculars? What if I have multiple horses in the race? It's a little annoying to have to try to ferret out the silks of 3-4 horses and then attempt to follow them all, whereas with Trakus or colored saddlecloths, I could see right away where everyone was.

BINGO

Do away with TRACK ANNOUNCERS -- they're about as accurate as chart makers --

and invest the money in TRAKUS. Watching races is EASY when the NUMBERS on the screen are ACCURATE. With Trakus, you don't even need the colored cloths.

Time for the industry to CATCH UP WITH PRESENT TECHNOLOGY (and thus gain some desperately needed ACCURACY).

[Bigsmc]

Look at the silks of your horse, those kind of help.

Didn't work last year. All the silks were brown.

[GPK]

Didn't work last year. All the silks were brown.

You sure bro??

[Indian Charlie]

This horse reminds me of French Deputy.

Insane early promise and rushed into the BCC. I think he was making his 4th or 5th lifetime start, against Cigar.

[KirisClown]

This horse reminds me of French Deputy.

Insane early promise and rushed into the BCC. I think he was making his 4th or 5th lifetime start, against Cigar.

If he's anything like French Deputy, he'll lose his allowance prep at extremely short odds...

For anyone that doesn't remember him though... here's the 95 Jerome.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LtGa8jcCp5g

[Danzig]

You sure bro??

er, i think he means muddy.:D

[Bigsmc]

er, i think he means muddy.:D

Thanks Danzig, some people can be a little slow to catch on around here.

[VOL JACK]

BINGO

Do away with TRACK ANNOUNCERS -- they're about as accurate as chart makers --

and invest the money in TRAKUS. Watching races is EASY when the NUMBERS on the screen are ACCURATE. With Trakus, you don't even need the colored cloths.

Time for the industry to CATCH UP WITH PRESENT TECHNOLOGY (and thus gain some desperately needed ACCURACY).

Why isnt TVG using trakus at KEE this year? I guess, like everything else in this game, it makes too much sense.

[Hickory Hill Hoff]

Didn't work last year. All the silks were brown.

and wet!

[pgiaco]

The purple saddle towels are a pain in the a$$ to follow, but it's really no worse than trying to watch European races, especially Ascot where the numbers are microscopic and the saddle towels are all the same color.

[letswastemoney]

from drf.com

"To win Sunday's race, Casino Drive has to beat horses with proven Fairplex Park form. Dakota Phone finished a wide third in the Pomona Derby on Sept. 20, Gregorian Bay was third in the Phil Shepherd Stakes on Sept. 6, and Sensational Score was a wide third in the Ralph Hinds Pomona Invitational on Sept.o21."

lol

[ddthetide]

so much for hammerle's influence and all the emails sent to him.
this just shows the disreguard the BC has for fans and players.

[GPK]

Thanks Danzig, some people can be a little slow to catch on around here.
:mad: :mad:



































:o

[RolloTomasi]

They really aren't that bad....no one is going to mistake Zenyatta for Hystericalady. You know most of these horses.

Horses? Who said anything about horses?

We're trying to watch colored squares here.

Horse racing has finally been distilled to a live-action version of super lotto. They just substituted some beasts of burden on a dirt track for the wind machine that blows the balls around in the plastic bin.

[10 pnt move up]

The purple cloths, and purlple and white are in general the brand of the breeders cup, I think they are more concerned with that then the player. I look at silks anyways.

[MaTH716]

so much for hammerle's influence and all the emails sent to him.
this just shows the disreguard the BC has for fans and players.

:tro:

[Indian Charlie]

If he's anything like French Deputy, he'll lose his allowance prep at extremely short odds...

For anyone that doesn't remember him though... here's the 95 Jerome.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LtGa8jcCp5g

Yeah, come to think of it, he looked highly suspect going into the BCC, and I mean that besides going in with such a light resume of races.

Edit: I just watched the Jerome again, thanks. That horse was so promising early on in his career. I hate the way that horse was handled.

[hi_im_god]

The purple cloths, and purlple and white are in general the brand of the breeders cup, I think they are more concerned with that then the player. I look at silks anyways.

great for win bets.

but when i have 5 horses in a leg of a multi or multiple horses for 3rd in a tri i miss the simplicity of a color/number that's ingrained.

it actually feels like the lottery with all purple. i have no f'in idea in a loud crowd what the announcer is saying.

all purple is the triumph of the horse racing is a "sport" argument over "gambling". no one who bets understands this.

[Cannon Shell]

I dont understand why they are so stubborn with the saddle towels. I mean it is seemingly a minor issue that virtually no one outside of the BC offices seems to support. I understand when people say that they dont care about the people watching the races, it certainly rings true but I dont know why they wouldnt change at least for the positive PR? Lord knows they need some.

[Cannon Shell]

He's good enough to compete in this years Classic already. Whether he's good enough to win is a different story. The "point to next year's Classic" logic is boring! He's better than Smooth Air.
The new battle cry for the overmatched!

[MaTH716]

Not to mention that ABC/ESPN will probably have all these crazy camera angles where you will not be able to see the number on the saddlecloth, but maybe pick up a color. At least if it was color coded you would have some idea where your horses are.
God is right about the silks theory too.

At least we will have Trevor there to give us an accurate description to what's going on. :rolleyes:

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

b stutts has tear roll like old indian in tree hugger spot:tro:

[docicu3]

The purple cloths, and purple and white are in general the brand of the breeders cup, I think they are more concerned with that then the player. I look at silks anyways.

It is another example of how little energy is devoted to the comfort of the fans and their ability to follow a race as it is run. The "Let them eat cake" mentality
prevails while the handle everywhere else in the sport this year is down.

Hopefully one day the BC brain trust will actually come to believe that the event actually needs to be marketed to the comfort of the bettors if they want to maximize the handle they enjoy. The argument that bettors will play no matter what is not completely true and hopefully is proven this year when popular trainers like Mott and others stay home and hopefully the antipoly players stay away enough to get the Empires attention.

[Bobby Fischer]

:D

Casino Drive is 1/1 morning line

Go Bananas

[Monarchos1]

The BC marketing guy who did the Blood-Horse Q & A on that site Friday claims Trackus will solve everything. This completely ignores the fact that only a few tracks now have that technology, not all viewers care for it, some people prefer to watch horses rather than "chicklets" and that not everyone in attendance will be able to view a monitor even if it has Trackus (check the temp seating at recent BCs to verify this). The bottom line is that they just don't care.

[Cannon Shell]

Not to mention that ABC/ESPN will probably have all these crazy camera angles where you will not be able to see the number on the saddlecloth, but maybe pick up a color. At least if it was color coded you would have some idea where your horses are.
God is right about the silks theory too.

At least we will have Trevor there to give us an accurate description to what's going on. :rolleyes:
I was thinking about this today and honestly I cant believe people defend this style of showing the races. What other sport has the camera angles changed during the action. I dont want to hear about autoracing or golf. But if you are watching a football or basketball game they dont switch camera angles during the play. And if they show an angle other than behind the pitcher in baseball, you almost cant follow what is going on. But these genius directors feel the need to switch angles 10 times during the race. Why not give us different shots during the replay of the race since they have 30 minutes between the races and the actual race usually only takes 2 minutes to run. Having the races in HD is a obvious plus though.

[Cannon Shell]

It is another example of how little energy is devoted to the comfort of the fans and their ability to follow a race as it is run. The "Let them eat cake" mentality
prevails while the handle everywhere else in the sport this year is down.

Hopefully one day the BC brain trust will actually come to believe that the event actually needs to be marketed to the comfort of the bettors if they want to maximize the handle they enjoy. The argument that bettors will play no matter what is not completely true and hopefully is proven this year when popular trainers like Mott and others stay home and hopefully the antipoly players stay away enough to get the Empires attention.
Since when is Mott not going?

[MaTH716]

I was thinking about this today and honestly I cant believe people defend this style of showing the races. What other sport has the camera angles changed during the action. I dont want to hear about autoracing or golf. But if you are watching a football or basketball game they dont switch camera angles during the play. And if they show an angle other than behind the pitcher in baseball, you almost cant follow what is going on. But these genius directors feel the need to switch angles 10 times during the race. Why not give us different shots during the replay of the race since they have 30 minutes between the races and the actual race usually only takes 2 minutes to run. Having the races in HD is a obvious plus though.

It is almost like they feel compeled to show angles from down low to try to show how fast the horses are going (ala auto racing). Nobody cares about that angle. If they want to play around with the angles do it during the marathon and maybe the turf. But I do not need to see 18 different angles in a race that is only going to take 68 seconds. Chuck is right, show them after the race. We want to see as much of the field as possible from the normal perspective, period.

[ddthetide]

Not to mention that ABC/ESPN will probably have all these crazy camera angles where you will not be able to see the number on the saddlecloth, but maybe pick up a color. At least if it was color coded you would have some idea where your horses are.
God is right about the silks theory too.

At least we will have Trevor there to give us an accurate description to what's going on. :rolleyes: personally i like Trevor's call. i know many here don't BUT if we have trouble following our horses how can we give any race caller grief, for these 2 days.

[Kasept]

If you haven't seen Steve Crist's most recent zippy column, it takes dead aim at the silly braying for various horses to run in the Breeders' Cup "for the good of the game". For instance, John Pricci had one of those impassioned and idiotic calls for Zenyatta to run in the Classic that I thought was a particularly special display of grandstanding. Crist cuts to the core and is especially right here:

The theory seems to be that horsemen should ignore their own expert opinions about what would be best for their horses and run them where they don't really want to, because somehow this will send horse racing to the top of the charts and energize an apathetic general public.

When it comes to virtually any aspect of the game's qualities or deficiencies, Crist consistently can be counted upon to get it right and express it best. His work alone makes the DRF Plus subscription worthwhile...

Spare me, please, 'For the good of the game'
By STEVEN CRIST

http://www.drf.com/drfNewsArticle.do?NID=98991

NEW YORK - In these final days before the Breeders' Cup pre-entry deadline Tuesday, we've been hearing a lot about how various owners have a duty or obligation about if and when to run their horses under the banner of "for the good of the game."

This is why Curlin is supposed to run in the Classic despite his handlers' lack of enthusiasm for racing on a new synthetic track; why Zenyatta is supposed to take on the boys instead of being odds-on in the Ladies' Classic; why Commentator and Vineyard Haven and even Zarkava should be entered despite their connections' clear preference to call it a year.

In a sort of twisted version of "My country, right or wrong," owners and trainers are supposed to participate in and support the Breeders' Cup because this will draw more television viewers, create new fans, and attract hordes of new advertisers and sponsors.

[Hickory Hill Hoff]

Like the avatar.... the classic Philadelphia Athletics logo from the Connie Mack era, the "White Elephant"

http://www.philadelphiaathletics.org/images/mack/ConnieMack4.jpg

[Buckpasser]

For the good of the game? Then why is the BC at SA this year and next?

[Handicappy]

If you haven't seen Steve Crist's most recent zippy column, it takes dead aim at the silly braying for various horses to run in the Breeders' Cup "for the good of the game". For instance, John Pricci had one of those impassioned and idiotic calls for Zenyatta to run in the Classic that I thought was a particularly special display of grandstanding. Crist cuts to the core and is especially right here:

The theory seems to be that horsemen should ignore their own expert opinions about what would be best for their horses and run them where they don't really want to, because somehow this will send horse racing to the top of the charts and energize an apathetic general public.

When it comes to virtually any aspect of the game's qualities or deficiencies, Crist consistently can be counted upon to get it right and express it best. His work alone makes the DRF Plus subscription worthwhile...

Spare me, please, 'For the good of the game'
By STEVEN CRIST

http://www.drf.com/drfNewsArticle.do?NID=98991

NEW YORK - In these final days before the Breeders' Cup pre-entry deadline Tuesday, we've been hearing a lot about how various owners have a duty or obligation about if and when to run their horses under the banner of "for the good of the game."

This is why Curlin is supposed to run in the Classic despite his handlers' lack of enthusiasm for racing on a new synthetic track; why Zenyatta is supposed to take on the boys instead of being odds-on in the Ladies' Classic; why Commentator and Vineyard Haven and even Zarkava should be entered despite their connections' clear preference to call it a year.

In a sort of twisted version of "My country, right or wrong," owners and trainers are supposed to participate in and support the Breeders' Cup because this will draw more television viewers, create new fans, and attract hordes of new advertisers and sponsors.
What will draw more television viewers, create new fans, and attract hordes of new advertisers and sponsors is a competent marketing strategy. There is so much that can be done to bring in the young, old, female, and male. It is a perfect sport for Radio. Ideal! But, aside from your far too limited week day show Steve that is all we have.
They can never seem to get there heads around the idea that the owners and trainers are already doing their part by putting the best trained athlete's out there. Makes me crazy. I am going out there anyway. I love watching the championships whether they will actually crown one or not. The entire two days being around a community of horse players and horse lovers does it for me.

[Cannon Shell]

Maybe I am in the minority and i didn't read Pricci's article but running Zenyatta in the Classic isnt really that bad of an idea is it? I understand they have Tiago but she could sweep to horse of the year if she were to win the race couldnt she? She is proven over the surface unlike the other main contenders so she certainly has the home field advantage. I dont think that her going in the Classic would draw more than 12 extra fans or coverage and I dont think it would have any "effect on the sport" but I would be interested to see how she matches up against the big boys.

[blackthroatedwind]

In the Land of the Blind the One Eyed Man is King.

[Cannon Shell]

In the Land of the Blind the One Eyed Man is King.
At least the one eyed man can see over the dashboard without a booster seat

[cowgirlintexas]

Maybe I am in the minority and i didn't read Pricci's article but running Zenyatta in the Classic isnt really that bad of an idea is it? I understand they have Tiago but she could sweep to horse of the year if she were to win the race couldnt she? She is proven over the surface unlike the other main contenders so she certainly has the home field advantage. I dont think that her going in the Classic would draw more than 12 extra fans or coverage and I dont think it would have any "effect on the sport" but I would be interested to see how she matches up against the big boys.
I think the same Chuck..She's beaten everything in the female divison..Why not take a shot at the boys? So many before have zig-zagged around it and we never really ever got to see they could have..She looks to be somethng special and one that could very well beat Curlin and Big Brown etc.

Course then, we'd be crying out for a match-up between her and Zarkava :rolleyes:

[Cannon Shell]

I think the same Chuck..She's beaten everything in the female divison..Why not take a shot at the boys? So many before have zig-zagged around it and we never really ever got to see they could have..She looks to be somethng special and one that could very well beat Curlin and Big Brown etc.

Course then, we'd be crying out for a match-up between her and Zarkava :rolleyes:
I'm not saying that she should or is even good enough but it isnt that much of a stretch to see her in there. Though the good of the sport theory is laughable since virtually no one outside of hardcore fans have even heard of her before.

[Quiet Chris]

Why wouldn't Casino Drive try the BCC. Do you think he should be afraid of that awesome 3yr old division or is it that really scary older horse division? There are about 6 or 7 horses running that even belong in a race like the BCC, and it if wasn't for the euros, that number might be 4 or 5.

[blackthroatedwind]

At least the one eyed man can see over the dashboard without a booster seat


I was referring to Steve Crist......

[Cannon Shell]

I was referring to Steve Crist......
The one eyed man can often be blinded by excessive hair in the face...

[CSC]

Owner's don't have an obligation to run anywhere they don't desire, I think it is just a wish to some of the interested observers of the game to have someone step fwd and take risks in the game, to add some juice to the game. All I know is we would have never had a great story as in Seabiscuit/War Admiral match race if they ran today. Since everyone optically speaking mostly seems interested in protecting their horse's reputations these days.

[Danzig]

Why wouldn't Casino Drive try the BCC. Do you think he should be afraid of that awesome 3yr old division or is it that really scary older horse division? There are about 6 or 7 horses running that even belong in a race like the BCC, and it if wasn't for the euros, that number might be 4 or 5.

it's supposed to be the place where the best gather. two starts really doesn't say much about the horse. some who are supporting him coming to the classic most likely feel zenyatta is too lightly raced to do the same, and would rather she stay vs females. not a lot of consistency in what should or shouldn't happen with racing. i can only imagine the vitriol that would be spewed if casino drive was trained by dwl.

[ELA]

Owner's don't have an obligation to run anywhere they don't desire, I think it is just a wish to some of the interested observers of the game to have someone step fwd and take risks in the game, to add some juice to the game. All I know is we would have never had a great story as in Seabiscuit/War Admiral match race if they ran today. Since mostly everyone optically seems interested in protecting their horse's reputations these days.

I hear you, and in part I agree. However, I think this is taken to an extreme. We have seen, time and time again, fans, the general public, whatever you want to call it -- hold owners accountable to some nonsensical standard. Tafel with Street Sense, Jackson with Curlin, and the list goes on and on. Another aspect that is nonsensical is the person who emphatically states "If I owned . . . I would . . ." -- yeah, just like people who say if they won the lottery . . . It's an extreme sense of entitlement, feeling cheated, and holding people to some standard that doesn't exist. It often seems like much more than a wish, and it's BS.

Taking risks in the game cost money. It has a price attached to it. Some people don't know and don't understand the price. Others do. It's also not about the money sometimes. It is about whatever the owner wants it to be about. This has always been a business of self expression. As they say, nobody will ever have everybody like it. I have never critisized an owner like Tafel or Jackson because they didn't want to race in a particular race. I never would say they weren't sportsmen or they cheated the fans or anything of the like. The decision not to run is often used as blame for the state of the sport and business. I think the people that blame might be to blame.

Eric

[Danzig]

well of course owners have every right to run their horses where they wish, good of the game or not. after all, we all know the best thing for the game would be for the best horses to remain in training, when owners know the best thing for themselves is to make money and stay in the game-hence the quick route to the shed when they get a top horse.
but, for the same owners to take umbrage when fans and media don't give the kudos to those horses for staying in against weaker competition (zenyatta for example), they've got no one to blame but themselves. zenyatta could take hoy, she could get her praises sung to the heavens should she take on the boys, but she 'deserves' to stay vs females according to her owners. no, if he wants her to be considered as being great, then she has to PROVE it, not just make everyone assume.
that filly has beaten her peers time and again, and has the best three year old and best older horse coming west to run on an untried surface. i think they are wrong for skipping the chance to put her where she really deserves to be. this nonsense that fillies shouldn't run vs boys is absolutely ridiculous.
as for zarkava, i think they're doing the right thing with her. as for curlin, i appreciate jackson for taking him west. we all know curlin would have been gone long ago but for the legal issues...but so what. jackson could very well have remained on the east coast, and i don't think anyone would blame him.

and of course if the bc folks are unhappy with a possible watered down product, it's their own fault for giving owners too many choices for those two days. rather than adding all the other racing, they should have increased the purse for the classic. but then, we all know it's handle they're after, and the bc gets all handle for all bc races. they're killing the golden goose imo.

[Coach Pants]

I hear you, and in part I agree. However, I think this is taken to an extreme. We have seen, time and time again, fans, the general public, whatever you want to call it -- hold owners accountable to some nonsensical standard. Tafel with Street Sense, Jackson with Curlin, and the list goes on and on. Another aspect that is nonsensical is the person who emphatically states "If I owned . . . I would . . ." -- yeah, just like people who say if they won the lottery . . . It's an extreme sense of entitlement, feeling cheated, and holding people to some standard that doesn't exist. It often seems like much more than a wish, and it's BS.

Taking risks in the game cost money. It has a price attached to it. Some people don't know and don't understand the price. Others do. It's also not about the money sometimes. It is about whatever the owner wants it to be about. This has always been a business of self expression. As they say, nobody will ever have everybody like it. I have never critisized an owner like Tafel or Jackson because they didn't want to race in a particular race. I never would say they weren't sportsmen or they cheated the fans or anything of the like. The decision not to run is often used as blame for the state of the sport and business. I think the people that blame might be to blame.

Eric
Talk about a bunch of nonsense. It's a business that is dying.

[Coach Pants]

It's like the Jets owners being pissed at fans because they won't accept the inflated seat license and season tickets in the new stadium. They conpletely overlook the fact that the product they've had on the field the last 30 years has sucked...it's the fans fault!

[pgardn]

I wish she would run because it would very simply be,
interesting.

[Coach Pants]

Well another horrendous business decision by a few tracks (synthetic) have given the owners just another excuse on a list of excuses that is already the size of the U.S. tax code.

[Cannon Shell]

But isnt the point of the article ultimately that the "sport" of racing is far less importnt than the business of racing? That the mainstream attention that supposedly would come to racing if it had these high profile matchups dont really translate into more dollars invested in the pools? That the overall product on the track on a daily basis and better treatment of its core customers is a far bigger issue than Curlin or Big Brown but gets far less coverage from the press?

[AeWingnut]

well of course owners have every right to run their horses where they wish, good of the game or not. after all, we all know the best thing for the game would be for the best horses to remain in training, when owners know the best thing for themselves is to make money and stay in the game-hence the quick route to the shed when they get a top horse.
but, for the same owners to take umbrage when fans and media don't give the kudos to those horses for staying in against weaker competition (zenyatta for example), they've got no one to blame but themselves. zenyatta could take hoy, she could get her praises sung to the heavens should she take on the boys, but she 'deserves' to stay vs females according to her owners. no, if he wants her to be considered as being great, then she has to PROVE it, not just make everyone assume.
that filly has beaten her peers time and again, and has the best three year old and best older horse coming west to run on an untried surface. i think they are wrong for skipping the chance to put her where she really deserves to be. this nonsense that fillies shouldn't run vs boys is absolutely ridiculous.
as for zarkava, i think they're doing the right thing with her. as for curlin, i appreciate jackson for taking him west. we all know curlin would have been gone long ago but for the legal issues...but so what. jackson could very well have remained on the east coast, and i don't think anyone would blame him.

and of course if the bc folks are unhappy with a possible watered down product, it's their own fault for giving owners too many choices for those two days. rather than adding all the other racing, they should have increased the purse for the classic. but then, we all know it's handle they're after, and the bc gets all handle for all bc races. they're killing the golden goose imo.


Racing has it's collective head up it's ass and they prove it every chance they get. The ADW situation is still a problem and I don't know what has been done or not done, just know I can't wager many tracks online. TwinSpires is taking Telephone bets Only for Santa Anita (Oak Tree). Slightly less inconvenient. I wonder since the Breeder's Cup is it's own deal if I will be able to advance wager online this year since it is at SA. not taking a day off work for the lesser Friday filly/ mare championships.

[Cannon Shell]

Well another horrendous business decision by a few tracks (synthetic) have given the owners just another excuse on a list of excuses that is already the size of the U.S. tax code.
Dont forget that the tracks in CA were forced to install synthetics by the racing board. fast trigger fingers all around.

[CSC]

Or is the BC concept becoming antiquated and has lost it's lustre? You would think a million dollars and more would be incentive enough, apparently not for all.

[CSC]

I hear you, and in part I agree. However, I think this is taken to an extreme. We have seen, time and time again, fans, the general public, whatever you want to call it -- hold owners accountable to some nonsensical standard. Tafel with Street Sense, Jackson with Curlin, and the list goes on and on. Another aspect that is nonsensical is the person who emphatically states "If I owned . . . I would . . ." -- yeah, just like people who say if they won the lottery . . . It's an extreme sense of entitlement, feeling cheated, and holding people to some standard that doesn't exist. It often seems like much more than a wish, and it's BS.

Taking risks in the game cost money. It has a price attached to it. Some people don't know and don't understand the price. Others do. It's also not about the money sometimes. It is about whatever the owner wants it to be about. This has always been a business of self expression. As they say, nobody will ever have everybody like it. I have never critisized an owner like Tafel or Jackson because they didn't want to race in a particular race. I never would say they weren't sportsmen or they cheated the fans or anything of the like. The decision not to run is often used as blame for the state of the sport and business. I think the people that blame might be to blame.

Eric

I hear you and I don't disagree with anything you said, On the subject of Curlin he has very little to lose in my mind, if he runs and wins he goes out a hero, if he loses an excuse is already in place, the track is to blame. I don't see how running in the BC Classic is a bad business or sporting decision, it defies logic to me.

[the_fat_man]

"I'll take 5% of YOUR pick 6 ticket and you can have 5% of mine".

Those EXTRA cashes come in handy.:rolleyes:

INSURANCE

[letswastemoney]

Casino Drive would crush her :)

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

Or is the BC concept becoming antiquated and has lost it's lustre? You would think a million dollars and more would be incentive enough, apparently not for all.
1 day is right 2 days is stupid..asking huge prices for tickets on fri is stupid along with inflated hotels ect..make it 1 day of championship racing .

[King Glorious]

No, they don't owe us anything. They can do what they want with their horses. Period. Christ is right that them doing some of the things we want as fans won't increase the fan base one bit. But I think he fails to consider something that is very important and that's what happens to the existing fan base when owners continously do what's good for them and forget about what's good for the game. Keep doing things to drive away the existing fans and there will be no sport to bring new ones to.

Owners also can't complain when people don't give them the support and praise they think they deserve. If the Zenyatta people make one sound in support of their horse for HOY, I'd lose all respect I have left for them. If they want to make her case, they should be in the Classic. Let the horse make her own argument. There is something to be said for being sporting. After all, even though this is a huge business, it's still a sport. At it's core, it's still about one thing....my horse is faster than your horse. While nobody HAS to do anything, it's why you gain more respect for a guy like The Aga Kahn. He didn't HAVE to run Zarkava in the Arc. But he knew he had a once in a lifetime kind of horse and he wanted her to PROVE her greatness on the track. She did and because of her owner being as sporting as he is, she'll go down in history. Because of Zenyatta's owners, she'll be forgotten in a couple of years. Again, they don't owe us anything. But I think that sometimes, they forget what it was like to be a fan instead of an owner. They absolutely do cheat the fans. That's not to say that sometimes they don't have legitimate reasons but in the end, it's still cheating the fans.

[CSC]

1 day is right 2 days is stupid..asking huge prices for tickets on fri is stupid along with inflated hotels ect..make it 1 day of championship racing .

They lost me when they tinkered with the lineup up races of not leading off with the sprint. I'm also not too fond of the BC Filly Mare race, Miss Alleged, Makaybe Diva, Borgia, and more recently in the Arc remind us fillies can compete in turf races against the boys. Some races have become too watered down.

[King Glorious]

They lost me when they tinkered with the lineup up races of not leading off with the sprint. I'm also not too fond of the BC Filly Mare race, Miss Alleged, Makaybe Diva, Borgia, and more recently in the Arc remind us fillies can compete in turf races against the boys. Some races have become too watered down.

Not to forget Pebbles, Indian Skimmer, Hatoof, and Estrapade. All ran very strong races in the Turf. What about Safely Kept, Meafara, Very Subtle, Honest Lady, Soviet Problem, and Pine Tree Lane....none of whom needed their own sprint race.

[Quiet Chris]

it's supposed to be the place where the best gather. two starts really doesn't say much about the horse. some who are supporting him coming to the classic most likely feel zenyatta is too lightly raced to do the same, and would rather she stay vs females. not a lot of consistency in what should or shouldn't happen with racing. i can only imagine the vitriol that would be spewed if casino drive was trained by dwl.

Zenyatta will do what they want to do and Casino Drive will do what his connections want to do. She will do fine in either and if they don't want to take on the boys that is understandable.

Casino Drive has proven he is good enough to compete with this year's top horses because there aren't any top horses with the exception of 5 or 6 of them. By your reasoning we should only have a 6 horse field for the BCC.

You could make the argument that Casino Drive is the 3rd best 3yr old in america, and it is not exactly a stretch.

Atleast Casino Drive has done something to make one believe he has the talent to compete at this level, because other than Big Brown and Colonel John there is not another 3yr old that belongs.

[Danzig]

Zenyatta will do what they want to do and Casino Drive will do what his connections want to do. She will do fine in either and if they don't want to take on the boys that is understandable.

Casino Drive has proven he is good enough to compete with this year's top horses because there aren't any top horses with the exception of 5 or 6 of them. By your reasoning we should only have a 6 horse field for the BCC.

You could make the argument that Casino Drive is the 3rd best 3yr old in america, and it is not exactly a stretch.

Atleast Casino Drive has done something to make one believe he has the talent to compete at this level, because other than Big Brown and Colonel John there is not another 3yr old that belongs.

you could make the argument that CD is one of the best. you could also make the argument that he isn't. my contention is that two starts isn't much to bolster the argument that he belongs, while proven runners with more hardware in the trophy case belong ahead of a perceived talent.
i would think there are euros, asian horses, older horses, and other threee year olds who belong ahead of a horse having only made two starts. i would think all those would add up to more than six. i'd think you'd find more than six on the west coast alone who belong ahead of a two time starter/winner.

[Coach Pants]

I put $20 win on Informed just to have someone to root for. Nothing better than rooting for a former claimer now in the great american O'neill's barn. Go USA!!

http://www.health.qld.gov.au/chrisp/images/syringe2.jpg

[Bobby Fischer]

21K on CD to show (pool not my personal wager;))

sensational score is my pick and is around 5-1

relatively decent pk3 will-pays on informed and sensational score $90?



play Sensational Score to win and show?

[Hickory Hill Hoff]

A useful effort.

[Coach Pants]

The TVG analysts want to have sex with him.

[Betsy]

The TVG analysts want to have sex with him.

thanks for the image, lol

Nice horse - Trevor said he was never really asked. He's talented, no doubt, but I'm very nervous about him being asked to do way too much in a couple of weeks

[Cannon Shell]

I guess that tap with the whip and VE riding him the last part was an illusion. I have no idea what this race will or wont do for this horse in 2 weeks. I suppose it was about what they were expecting.

[Bobby Fischer]

broke alertly. didn't show a ton of early foot, but he settled right away.
http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/6104/cdsettleys6.jpg
Made headway/Came to even terms approaching the far turn.
http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/8372/cdevenqu5.jpg



Showed a response in the stretch with hand urging.
http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/563/cdresponsegu7.jpg


galloped out well.


looked like a good animal from post parade to photo.
http://img368.imageshack.us/img368/4113/cdphotole8.jpg

go bananas

[ELA]

Completely and totally in hand IMO. I think Victor was being prudent snapping the lines, waving the whip and tapping him. He seemed very responsive. Trevor said something like "needs to speed up a little here" -- and you could see that whatever Victor did, the horse just responded, let it out, strided out, etc. just a bit more. Nice colt; especially considering what he's done and how he's done it.

12 days back? In the Classic? Unless he is some incredible freak of nature and sitting on a monster of a performance (which I do not see), or something very strange happens, like the entire field falls apart, I say no shot. Very nice horse though. Looks like he has a lot of talent and ability. I'd love to own him.

Eric

[Betsy]

I really just hope he runs well in the Classic- that would be an achievement in itself.

Bobby, thanks for the screen caps!

[The Bid]

Eric,

Its just impossible to say who will, or will not run on that surface. Gamblers at least know Casino Drive can run over it. I would not be shocked with any horses winning on Breders cup day. Unless a horse has raced over that garbage the public will have no idea what to expect

I will not be making one single bet and thats unfortunate.

[prudery]

The TVG analysts want to have sex with him.


Nice win over drek, but if this is what they consider an orgasmic performance, they need a road map and a compass to their libidos and a lot of Viagra ...

[KirisClown]

Here's the replay... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ALzdAlL3Xg

[ELA]

Eric,

Its just impossible to say who will, or will not run on that surface. Gamblers at least know Casino Drive can run over it. I would not be shocked with any horses winning on Breders cup day. Unless a horse has raced over that garbage the public will have no idea what to expect

I will not be making one single bet and thats unfortunate.

That's a very good point and I think that certainly will have a lot to do with it. However, I don't know the exact #'s, but I said what I said knowing that some # of horses will have a "home field advantage" so to speak. I wouldn't be shocked if Casino Drive won -- again with an extreme anomaly, field falling apart, etc. However, if several of the key contenders (and that might remain to seen until they load) show up and run their race, I don't see him there. Could I see using him on a super ticket? Yeah, maybe, if others don't warrant the play. I just think it's more possible than probable, and not very.

Eric

[Cannon Shell]

Nice horse - Trevor said he was never really asked. He's talented, no doubt, but I'm very nervous about him being asked to do way too much in a couple of weeks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0CLdZRfSz0

[The Bid]

I agree he will be no factor if the better horses in the division show up. However, how can any serious player bet the card with any conviction. All of these horses trying this track for the first time its impossible to send it with a solid opinion. Pathetic really

[Danzig]

at least when the big brown goo-goos go googoo, it's over graded wins....gimme a break.

[10 pnt move up]

That's a very good point and I think that certainly will have a lot to do with it. However, I don't know the exact #'s, but I said what I said knowing that some # of horses will have a "home field advantage" so to speak. I wouldn't be shocked if Casino Drive won -- again with an extreme anomaly, field falling apart, etc. However, if several of the key contenders (and that might remain to seen until they load) show up and run their race, I don't see him there. Could I see using him on a super ticket? Yeah, maybe, if others don't warrant the play. I just think it's more possible than probable, and not very.

Eric

Horses lose alot more due to their style rather then if they handle the track. Its a nice talking point though.

[the_fat_man]

I see we're still FIXATED on the DIRT superior to POLY position.

Yet, while handicapping OSA presently, I can't help noticing how so many horses are able to go from the poly at DMR to the dirt of FPX and then the poly of OSA. And quite a few of them are adept on the turf as well. These must be extremely unique animals.

Seems to me that (DIRT) handicappers have more trouble with poly than horses do.

When I play different tracks I need to make adjustments; changes in surface or otherwise.

[The Bid]

You guys are right, since when does the surface make any difference.

[Betsy]

at least when the big brown goo-goos go googoo, it's over graded wins....gimme a break.

I don't get it. The horse is a nice horse and he runs a nice race; no one is saying he's going to win the Classic. Why do you have a problem if people think he ran well today...? Again, I don't see anyone going over the top with this. I'm not trying to be defensive - I just don't get the antagonism towards this horse.

[Danzig]

I don't get it. The horse is a nice horse and he runs a nice race; no one is saying he's going to win the Classic. Why do you have a problem if people think he ran well today...? Again, I don't see anyone going over the top with this. I'm not trying to be defensive - I just don't get the antagonism towards this horse.

and i don't get why you're so concerned about my opinion, or why you get so defensive-or think lack of enthusiasm equates antagonism? yay, he won an optional claimer.
and i do believe i've seen some posts on here in day's past saying this horse would have a say in the classic. hilarious.

[RollerDoc]

at least when the big brown goo-goos go googoo, it's over graded wins....gimme a break.

Hey! I resemble that comment.

[letswastemoney]

He has good tactical speed. He's going to sit right off the leaders and if it's a fast pace, he'll get first run on them.

[hrfan]

i think he has a legit shot, i wont be using brown or curlin on anything....
you have to use casino, go between and tiago IMO

[letswastemoney]

i think he has a legit shot, i wont be using brown or curlin on anything....
you have to use casino, go between and tiago IMO
Yeah! Tiago ftw!

[hrfan]

Yeah! Tiago ftw!

FTW ?

[Danzig]

FTW ?

i'm assuming that's for the win. if so, i would agree with hossy.

[Danzig]

i think he has a legit shot, i wont be using brown or curlin on anything....
you have to use casino, go between and tiago IMO


:rolleyes:


if casino drive didn't have two belmont winners as his siblings, everyone would be laughing their asses off at this horse and his hapless connections. but since he has better than honour as his mama, he suddenly has a shot-a legitimate shot?? and then i have to read how zenyatta is too lightly raced to attempt a shot as the classic as well.....we're nothing if not consistent on here. :zz:

[cowgirlintexas]

i think he has a legit shot, i wont be using brown or curlin on anything....
you have to use casino, go between and tiago IMO
Why on earth would any smart handicapper leave off either of those 2?

[zippyneedsawin]

Why on earth would any smart handicapper leave off either of those 2?

I may consider it. Both will be HUGE underlays... especially considering the conditions they'll be running in. It all depends on the type of bet you're making and how much you are risking.

[letswastemoney]

i'm assuming that's for the win. if so, i would agree with hossy.for the women ;)

[Indian Charlie]

In the Land of the Blind the One Eyed Man is King.

Great book.

[philcski]

Maybe I am in the minority and i didn't read Pricci's article but running Zenyatta in the Classic isnt really that bad of an idea is it? I understand they have Tiago but she could sweep to horse of the year if she were to win the race couldnt she? She is proven over the surface unlike the other main contenders so she certainly has the home field advantage. I dont think that her going in the Classic would draw more than 12 extra fans or coverage and I dont think it would have any "effect on the sport" but I would be interested to see how she matches up against the big boys.

I'm with you, I don't think it's a stretch at all to run her. She'd be 3rd or 4th choice, at worst, for a $5mm race.

[VOL JACK]

I'm with you, I don't think it's a stretch at all to run her. She'd be 3rd or 4th choice, at worst, for a $5mm race.

If Curlins' connections decide to pass, it's going to be the weakest Classic field ever. Id give it a shot if I owned her. That being said, if Curlin goes Id stick with the Distaff.

[smuthg]

I thought this was a great line from Crist's piece...

"With or without Curlin and the others, it's the best and busiest racing and wagering event of the year. I plan to handicap and bet until it hurts."

Yeah, I don't like that its on "Pro-Ride" or that they've split the card into two unnecessary days, or that some of the best horses aren't running, but I think its still a great event and look forward to it every year, even this year.

[Quiet Chris]

Casino will be overbet, but nobody can say they would be shocked if he won the race. He is very talented and there is a shortage of talent in the older horse and 3yr old division. If Curlin doesn't run, forget about it. Casino could easily win.

[brockguy]

Juddmonte pair Visit and Proviso on their way from Europe, they, the former especially could be very dangerous!

[the_fat_man]

Bring on all those 'SUPERIOR' EURO's to try that hard course with the sharp turns.

[brockguy]

Bring on all those 'SUPERIOR' EURO's to try that hard course with the sharp turns.

they won all the turf races there last time..

[Bigsmc]

Bring on all those 'SUPERIOR' EURO's to try that hard course with the sharp turns.

You mean like the way they swept the first three places in the 2003 F & M Turf at SA?

[Pedigree Ann]

Maybe I am in the minority and i didn't read Pricci's article but running Zenyatta in the Classic isnt really that bad of an idea is it? I understand they have Tiago but she could sweep to horse of the year if she were to win the race couldnt she? She is proven over the surface unlike the other main contenders so she certainly has the home field advantage. I dont think that her going in the Classic would draw more than 12 extra fans or coverage and I dont think it would have any "effect on the sport" but I would be interested to see how she matches up against the big boys.

If this were Europe or Australia, there would be no question; a female horse who has run out of competition among fillies and/or mares naturally takes on the males. Like Zarkava did in the Arc. And Pride, who was second a couple of years ago. And like Sunline did, and Makybe Diva, who became the first 3-time winner of the Melbourne Cup, did. We used to do it in the USA, too, and not that long ago. Easy Goer's dam Relaxing ran third to John Henry in the JC Gold Cup.

[CSC]

Not to forget Pebbles, Indian Skimmer, Hatoof, and Estrapade. All ran very strong races in the Turf. What about Safely Kept, Meafara, Very Subtle, Honest Lady, Soviet Problem, and Pine Tree Lane....none of whom needed their own sprint race.

And not to mention I believe Jolypha finished 2nd in the Classic to AP Indy.

[ELA]

Maybe I am in the minority and i didn't read Pricci's article but running Zenyatta in the Classic isnt really that bad of an idea is it? I understand they have Tiago but she could sweep to horse of the year if she were to win the race couldnt she? She is proven over the surface unlike the other main contenders so she certainly has the home field advantage. I dont think that her going in the Classic would draw more than 12 extra fans or coverage and I dont think it would have any "effect on the sport" but I would be interested to see how she matches up against the big boys.

I don't have a strong opinion either way, yet. I'll see after the entries and see how the field looks. Sure, you can make a case for it. I wouldn't hold it against an owner if he did it for ego or for sportsmanship. I agree it's not about drawing more extra fans -- and if Curlin vs. Big Brown did, it would be short-lived at best. Of course as many know, that is not the solution.

I don't think any of it -- not one day -- will have an effect on the sport. It's the difference between a diet and a lifestyle change. "They" will get it one day. When they need so much else in order to survive.

I think Crist hit the nail -- dead center perfect -- right on the head.

Eric

[Betsy]

Is Lady Marian coming? If so, she's got a huge shot

[King Glorious]

And not to mention I believe Jolypha finished 2nd in the Classic to AP Indy.

She was third behind him and Pleasant Tap. Now imagine that. She was a 3yo filly from France making her dirt debut and American debut at the same time and it came in the BC Classic. I don't remember what start number that was in her career but I know it wasn't more than her 8th. She beat some pretty good horses to finish third that day. That move took guts and was rewarded.

[King Glorious]

Some years ago in the NBA, the commissioner had to step in and reign in some of the practices of the owner of the Cleveland Cavaliers, Ted Stepien. Even though it was his team, the league stepped in for what was the good of the game. Look at this past offseason in the NFL and the commissioner stepped in on a team matter regarding Brett Favre and the Packers. Again, it was for the good of the game. League commissioners are given certain latitudes to make moves and decisions when they are deemed to be in the overall good of the game, even if it means taking some of the power away from an owner or player. Now, I realize that horse racing is totally different and it's hard to tell someone what to do with a living and breathing animal. Also, we don't have a league commissioner. I wouldn't pretend to know where exactly that line is but I do feel like there is a fine line out there between exercising your own personal rights and doing what's in the best interests of the game. Say Bernardini's owners had wanted to really make sure there was no competition for him and had convinced his brother not to enter Invasor? Is that their right? Absolutely. Would it be in the best interests or for the good of the game? No. I think that once you have horses at that level, you do have some level of obligation to the sport and to the fans that support you.

[Bigsmc]

King G,

Have you ever owned a horse?

[King Glorious]

King G,

Have you ever owned a horse?

I never have.

[the_fat_man]

Wasn't following the event in 2003, so I have no idea what the fields were like, where the winners came from, or how the turf course was playing. If it continues as it is presently, late runs and wide trips won't work. But I appreciate the general comments.

[Cannon Shell]

I never have.
wanna buy one?

[King Glorious]

wanna buy one?

Some really close friends own a few. Some of them are actually pretty good ones too. That's close enough for me. I would cause a trainer to have headaches. I know what I'm not cut out for.

[Bigsmc]

Once the bills come rolling in, it makes it difficult to feel "some level of obligation to the sport and to the fans that support you". The bad horses cost just as much as the good ones.

The sport and the fans that support you don't care when your horse can't break his maiden and has an endless string of vet bills.

It's a noble thought and you'd like to think owners would feel that way, but it just doesn't happen.

[King Glorious]

Once the bills come rolling in, it makes it difficult to feel "some level of obligation to the sport and to the fans that support you". The bad horses cost just as much as the good ones.

The sport and the fans that support you don't care when your horse can't break his maiden and has an endless string of vet bills.

It's a noble thought and you'd like to think owners would feel that way, but it just doesn't happen.

Well, that's why I say that I don't know where that fine line would be. It would also surely have to be a different line for a guy that's been small time for years and comes up with a once in a lifetime horse as opposed to an operation like Darley or Coolmore. Let's face it. For many of the people that own these horses at this level, they aren't pinching pennies and the financial aspects of it aren't paramount in the decisions they make.

[Bigsmc]

Well, that's why I say that I don't know where that fine line would be. It would also surely have to be a different line for a guy that's been small time for years and comes up with a once in a lifetime horse as opposed to an operation like Darley or Coolmore. Let's face it. For many of the people that own these horses at this level, they aren't pinching pennies and the financial aspects of it aren't paramount in the decisions they make.

The problem is, the bigger the outfit, the less they care about the good of the "game".

[King Glorious]

The problem is, the bigger the outfit, the less they care about the good of the "game".

That's true and that's the problem. That's where I think Christ is wrong. Well, not wrong but not helping. Instead of saying how we are wrong to have certain expectations and desires, I think he could help more by trying to push people into doing what's best for the game overall instead of telling us to back off.

[blackthroatedwind]

Jesus Christ has checked in on this issue?

Who woulda thunk it.

[Cannon Shell]

Jesus Christ has checked in on this issue?

Who woulda thunk it.
It is very important...

[letswastemoney]

Casino Drive earned a 92 beyer. :)

[Linny]

No, they don't owe us anything. They can do what they want with their horses. Period. Christ is right that them doing some of the things we want as fans won't increase the fan base one bit.

Christ has died, Christ has risen, Christ is writing for the Form!!!???

I tend to agree with Crist. I simply don't see a horse, or even a rivalry being the savior (to keep the theme of this post alive) of the game. Curlin has raced 6 times this year. I saw his last 3 races. The sad fact is that a total of only about 39,000 people saw his last three starts.

Sadly, what is "good for the game" and what is good for the varied factions within the game tend to be many different things.

[Danzig]

Casino will be overbet, but nobody can say they would be shocked if he won the race. He is very talented and there is a shortage of talent in the older horse and 3yr old division. If Curlin doesn't run, forget about it. Casino could easily win.


i can. i would be shocked if he won.

[cmorioles]

The one eyed man can often be blinded by excessive hair in the face...

The one eyed man doesn't have to worry about his eyes being bigger than his stomach.

[Cannon Shell]

The one eyed man doesn't have to worry about his eyes being bigger than his stomach.
A 12 eyed man wouldnt be a match for my stomach

[freddymo]

Maybe I am in the minority and i didn't read Pricci's article but running Zenyatta in the Classic isnt really that bad of an idea is it? I understand they have Tiago but she could sweep to horse of the year if she were to win the race couldnt she? She is proven over the surface unlike the other main contenders so she certainly has the home field advantage. I dont think that her going in the Classic would draw more than 12 extra fans or coverage and I dont think it would have any "effect on the sport" but I would be interested to see how she matches up against the big boys.

They can't bear to watch Tiago get smoked.. What does horse of the year mean? Who cares about this crap do trainers get some type of monetary perk for winning HOY? i

[Cannon Shell]

They can't bear to watch Tiago get smoked.. What does horse of the year mean? Who cares about this crap do trainers get some type of monetary perk for winning HOY? i
Trainers rarely get monetary perks for anything.

[freddymo]

Trainers rarely get monetary perks for anything.

Shug's driven a nice Range Rover.. Had to set him back a few schenkles

[Bobby Fischer]

one word

TRES BORRACHO

[blackthroatedwind]

It is possible that Casino Drive will be the biggest underlay in the history of horse racing. Honestly, he should be upwards of 50:1.

[Danzig]

They can't bear to watch Tiago get smoked.. What does horse of the year mean? Who cares about this crap do trainers get some type of monetary perk for winning HOY? i

hoy can add to a horses stud fee-it usually will, altho i think if curlin was to win again he wouldn't see his fee increase, i think he's topped out in that respect. some trainers have gotten a share of a stallion, so yeah, it could pay off if the fee is elevated. then there's getting some publicity for the award, and possibly more owners will send their horses as a result. it sure can't hurt!

[freddymo]

hoy can add to a horses stud fee-it usually will, altho i think if curlin was to win again he wouldn't see his fee increase, i think he's topped out in that respect. some trainers have gotten a share of a stallion, so yeah, it could pay off if the fee is elevated. then there's getting some publicity for the award, and possibly more owners will send their horses as a result. it sure can't hurt!

Yeah bro Zenyatta winning Horse of the Year would be a huge plus to her stud value. Chuck mentioned in the post above that running Zenyatta in the Classic could get HER HOY..

[Indian Charlie]

It is possible that Casino Drive will be the biggest underlay in the history of horse racing. Honestly, he should be upwards of 50:1.

He's at least 1000 times more likely a winner than that cheap claimer that tried the BC Turf a number of years ago, that went off at surprisingly low odds.

[freddymo]

It is possible that Casino Drive will be the biggest underlay in the history of horse racing. Honestly, he should be upwards of 50:1.

I was thinking 45/1

[freddymo]

He's at least 1000 times more likely a winner than that cheap claimer that tried the BC Turf a number of years ago, that went off at surprisingly low odds.
Miesques Approval? Ask Byk about that one

[Indian Charlie]

Miesques Approval? Ask Byk about that one

lol, yeah, not quite.

What the hell was that horse named? I think he was from New Mexico.

[TitanSooner]

lol, yeah, not quite.

What the hell was that horse named? I think he was from New Mexico.
Ricks Natural Star?

[sdjcom]

I could care less who runs and who doesn't. I will watch but will wager on Pha pk, Mnr, Haw,and all the other cheap clm and alw racing,tracks that I make money at. Betting these stakes races anytime, is a losing proposition, over the long run. No one can really throw out any horse and make a bet that the odds are in your favor by simple elimanation, and a few real contenders left at a decent price. When you bet and hit a long price you are guessing with these top horses. Every year the pay-offs are huge and the handicapping can't figure this out, if it could then they would'nt paid this well, do yourself a favor and do the doable. Watch enjoy but don't bet like the losers.

[Danzig]

he won the first part of the race.

[Danzig]

Yeah bro Zenyatta winning Horse of the Year would be a huge plus to her stud value. Chuck mentioned in the post above that running Zenyatta in the Classic could get HER HOY..

oh, sorry sis, i was replying to what i read from you about tiago. sorry i didn't go back up far enough...:rolleyes:

[brockguy]

think this could be moved to the sticky.. lady marian is scheduled i think, but i think she'll need soft ground to be seen at her best. I think most Nayefs need a bit of cut...

[sdjcom]

I completely disagree. That said, my betting this year will be a lot less than usual, because of surface. But the Breeders Cup and other big days are usually prime days to find a lot of value. Then you are one of the very few exceptions,in horseracing, betting. I track picks on this site along with Byk's for my own info to get an edge, and see what others are betting and why. I have found most do poorly on higher purse and class races. Just a fact, and have seen most take losses on the multi-race bets when all is added up over period of time. Track the selections and you'll see what i mean.

[Cannon Shell]

Shug's driven a nice Range Rover.. Had to set him back a few schenkles
Shug aint hurtin

[Cannon Shell]

Yeah bro Zenyatta winning Horse of the Year would be a huge plus to her stud value. Chuck mentioned in the post above that running Zenyatta in the Classic could get HER HOY..
They get a nice trophy and maybe a discount season to Big Brown or Kip DeVille

[Cannon Shell]

I could care less who runs and who doesn't. I will watch but will wager on Pha pk, Mnr, Haw,and all the other cheap clm and alw racing,tracks that I make money at. Betting these stakes races anytime, is a losing proposition, over the long run. No one can really throw out any horse and make a bet that the odds are in your favor by simple elimanation, and a few real contenders left at a decent price. When you bet and hit a long price you are guessing with these top horses. Every year the pay-offs are huge and the handicapping can't figure this out, if it could then they would'nt paid this well, do yourself a favor and do the doable. Watch enjoy but don't bet like the losers.You are just so depressing...Dont you ever say anything positive? I was all set to bet the BC now you have ruined it for me.

[ELA]

You are just so depressing...Dont you ever say anything positive? I was all set to bet the BC now you have ruined it for me.

LOL.

[sumitas]

I could care less who runs and who doesn't. I will watch but will wager on Pha pk, Mnr, Haw,and all the other cheap clm and alw racing,tracks that I make money at. Betting these stakes races anytime, is a losing proposition, over the long run. No one can really throw out any horse and make a bet that the odds are in your favor by simple elimanation, and a few real contenders left at a decent price. When you bet and hit a long price you are guessing with these top horses. Every year the pay-offs are huge and the handicapping can't figure this out, if it could then they would'nt paid this well, do yourself a favor and do the doable. Watch enjoy but don't bet like the losers.

You must be a grunge fan .
:(

[Betsy]

think this could be moved to the sticky.. lady marian is scheduled i think, but i think she'll need soft ground to be seen at her best. I think most Nayefs need a bit of cut...

Oh, I didn't know that........hmm. Well, she's interesting in any case - thanks!

[Cannon Shell]

I'm calling bullsh.it on this one. I'd love to see this "fact" actually backed up. Am I wrong that the usual full fields don't offer great value?
Track the selections and you will see what he means...
right there with "If you build it, they wont come" (whispered to Stronach right before he tore down gulfstream)

[letswastemoney]

How can anyone say he should be 50-1?? His beyers are on par with the rest of the 3 year old crop. He's a grade 2 winner, in only his 2nd start! I think people don't like him because of all the attention he's getting.

[cowgirlintexas]

How can anyone say he should be 50-1?? His beyers are on par with the rest of the 3 year old crop. He's a grade 2 winner, in only his 2nd start! I think people don't like him because of all the attention he's getting.
Sweet..more $$ in my pocket :)

[blackthroatedwind]

I'm sure it would be an interesting study, I just don't believe for one second he has done it.


I actually did a doctoral thesis on it. The results were interesting, but ultimately it came down to one thing, if you remove BBB's picks overall people displayed a fairly adequate opinion.

With him included, overall, the opinions really sucked.

[Cannon Shell]

I actually did a doctoral thesis on it. The results were interesting, but ultimately it came down to one thing, if you remove BBB's picks overall people displayed a fairly adequate opinion.

With him the opinions really sucked.
Thank you Doctor!

[Cannon Shell]

I'm sure it would be an interesting study, I just don't believe for one second he has done it.
:$:

[blackthroatedwind]

Thank you Doctor!


It actually earned me validictorian status. I, excuse me, we read one of BBB's posts as our speech.

[blackthroatedwind]

Poor BBB. They come here and share all of their wisdom and this is how you repay them? Mocking? We're surprised by the lack of gratitude.

We apologize for the vanilla and heavily cambered post.

[Coach Pants]

sexdotcom has a point. I've found value in donkey races on the california fair circuit.

[hrfan]

I'm sure partly that is true. But you have to understand, we're talking about a horse that has made 3 lifetime starts. He ran well in the Peter Pan, but that certainly hasn't come back a good race. It was a grade 2 in name only. It just is strange to me that people are talking so highly of a horse that will be such underlaid odds. Basically because of who his dam has produced. It just doesn't make much sense to me from a betting perspective.
He now has a race and win over the track, he cruised around off of a long layoff. Who is really def. better, unless your taKING a shot with a horse who has never ran over the surface Example: Curlin or any of the Europeans. I will be sticking to the horse proven over Synthetics. Casino, Go Between and Tiago.

[Hickory Hill Hoff]

I'm sure partly that is true. But you have to understand, we're talking about a horse that has made 3 lifetime starts. He ran well in the Peter Pan, but that certainly hasn't come back a good race. It was a grade 2 in name only. It just is strange to me that people are talking so highly of a horse that will be such underlaid odds. Basically because of who his dam has produced. It just doesn't make much sense to me from a betting perspective.

So, what would you take as fair odds in the win spot?

[Coach Pants]

He now has a race and win over the track, he cruised around off of a long layoff. Who is really def. better, unless your taKING a shot with a horse who has never ran over the surface Example: Curlin or any of the Europeans. I will be sticking to the horse proven over Synthetics. Casino, Go Between and Tiago.
Well that makes things easier...


*scribes frantically*

[blackthroatedwind]

At least 30 to 1.


He's still an underlay at 30:1.

[asudevil]

Miesques Approval? Ask Byk about that one
That horse had more "juice" than the Minute Maid factory.

[AeWingnut]

The first thing I thought was... the euros will hate it. They did well last time? Don't remember, must not have cashed. :o

[Danzig]

why dont people 'like' him? here's who he beat in the pan: mint lane, ready's echo, Golden Spikes, Cosmic, Spark Candle, Tomcito, Deputyville, and Fast Talking.

yeah, i'm going to bet that horse to beat curlin, well armed, go between, tiago, student council....lol!

he didn't cruise on sunday. and he's going to come back and run a lifetime best two weeks after his last? after having his previous races spread apart by how much time?? three months between his debut and the pan, and 5 months between that and sunday. and his 92 beyer sunday is supposedly on par with the horses he'll be facing the 25th? yeah, sure.

[AeWingnut]

I took Monday off and went to the OTB 1 hour away. The system was down through the 1st race at Belmont. The teller was an idiot and there were plenty of characters to remind me why I enjoy betting via the internet.

if I can't play the Breeder's Cup from home I may not play at all. The disputes over ADW have prevented me from playing many of my favorite tracks. I don't like calling in my bets and haven't played or watched one race at Santa Anita.

I have quit playing everyday and every weekend and don't have the desire to "Crush the Cup"

the Breeder's Cup used to be the greatest not it is the least greatest.

[Bobby Fischer]

often unconventional ,so take whatever i say with a grain of salt...:D

1. - I could care less about his momma. - Yes I do care about having a quality dam and female family, but I don't believe there is any "belmont blessing" or extra special thing going on here... Solid to good dam and thats it.

2. - Casino Drive is a class animal. He is good physically. He doesn't have any major flaws. He has been well taken care of. He has a good style. Has a little bit of talent. He shows a response. Looks good in motion. This is a nice horse...

3. - In order to have any shot at the Classic, from my opinion, Espinoza would have to put this guy into a move that would normally be called premature, and CD would have to run the whole drive without tiring.
You don't see those types of moves very often at all. Jockeys with nice horses tend to run with the group and wait until the last possible minute and do as little as possible. I just haven't seen the talent yet that would give Casino Drive any chance with a standard trip.

[Quiet Chris]

He's still an underlay at 30:1.

Not really. 12-1 is a solid line on him. There is no early speed and he could easily wire this field. Plus he has a win over the track.

[slotdirt]

That "win over the track" angle is always a great barometer. Court Vision, for example, parlayed that angle into a successful 13th place finish in this year's Derby.

[blackthroatedwind]

That "win over the track" angle is always a great barometer. Court Vision, for example, parlayed that angle into a successful 13th place finish in this year's Derby.


Yes, myself I usually prefer a win over good horses to a win over the track. But, hey, to each his ( or her ) own. Maybe beating 25K claimers, while driving, 13 days before the BC Classic has Casino Drive right where they want him.

However, if nobody knew who his dam was, and the race was oversubscribed, people would be screaming bloody murder that he was even allowed in the race. The bottom line is that he has absolutely no credentials.

It's funny, personally, I would be happy to see him do well. His connections were at Belmont for weeks and seemed really great. But, objectively this situation is a bit curious. He belongs in the BC because he's related to Rags to Riches? OK......that makes sense.

[VOL JACK]

why dont people 'like' him? here's who he beat in the pan: mint lane, ready's echo, Golden Spikes, Cosmic, Spark Candle, Tomcito, Deputyville, and Fast Talking.

yeah, i'm going to bet that horse to beat curlin, well armed, go between, tiago, student council....lol!

he didn't cruise on sunday. and he's going to come back and run a lifetime best two weeks after his last? after having his previous races spread apart by how much time?? three months between his debut and the pan, and 5 months between that and sunday. and his 92 beyer sunday is supposedly on par with the horses he'll be facing the 25th? yeah, sure.

Took almost 11,000 posts....but this is something worth reading.:tro:

[westcoastinvader]

Just a quick update for anyone interested.

The "Souvenir Ticket" is available with a phone order at the Santa Anita Breeders Cup link.

I ordered two for $20 each, with a reasonable $15 service charge for certified delivery.

Up until today I thought that mail in form was required. Saw the offer for "souvenir" with the phone number and was able to transact in about 3 minutes.

On some of the ticket sales sites people are asking two and three times face value for General Admission today....

[Coach Pants]

Make sure the tickets are fireproof.

[Kildaretown]

General Admission is $20 a day walkup. Why purchase them early?

[LARHAGE]

Make sure the tickets are fireproof.

LOL!!!! Actually those fires are no where near Santa Anita and they should actually be well contained by than! :)

[westcoastinvader]

General Admission is $20 a day walkup. Why purchase them early?

Not a huge deal, but these pre-race day tickets are the "Souvenir" version.

Suitable for framing or something, I guess....

For me, I just feel better with tickets in hand since I'm driving in from the Bay Area late the night before.

If the $15 keeps me from standing in line a bit, that could be worth it right there. I made the mistake of doing walk-up for a spontaneous Dodger game one night and after 45 minutes of being in line outside.....while the game was already being played.....became very appreciative of having advanced tickets at SoCal events.

[Kasept]

2008 BREEDERS' CUP WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS
(All Eastern Time)

Championship Friday October 24

Santa Anita Allowance Race 1 2:05 p.m.
Santa Anita Allowance Race 2 2:35 p.m.
$1 million Sentient Flight Group Breeders' Cup Filly and Mare Sprint 3 3:35 p.m.
$1 million Grey Goose Breeders' Cup Juvenile Fillies Turf 4 4:15 p.m.
$2 million Bessemer Trust Breeders' Cup Juvenile Fillies (gr. I) 5 4:55 p.m.
$2 million Emirates Airline Breeders' Cup Filly and Mare Turf (gr. I) 6 5:35 p.m.
$2 million Breeders' Cup Ladies' Classic (gr. I) 7 6:15 p.m.
Las Palmas Handicap (gr. II) 8 6:55 p.m.
Santa Anita Race Allowance Race 9 7:30 p.m.
Santa Anita Race Allowance Race 10 8:05 p.m.

Championship Saturday October 25

$500,000 Breeders' Cup Marathon 1 1:10 p.m.
$1 million Breeders' Cup Turf Sprint 2 1:50 p.m.
$1 million TVG Breeders' Cup Dirt Mile 3 2:30 p.m.
$2 million Breeders' Cup Mile (gr. I) 4 3:15 p.m.
$2 million Bessemer Trust Breeders' Cup Juvenile (gr. I) 5 3:55 p.m.
$1 million Grey Goose Breeders' Cup Juvenile Turf 6 4:35 p.m.
$2 million Sentient Flight Group Breeders' Cup Sprint (gr. 1) 7 5:15 p.m.
$3 million Emirates Airline Breeders' Cup Turf (gr. I) 8 6:00 p.m.
$5 million Breeders' Cup Classic (gr. I) 9 6:45 p.m.
Damascus Stakes 10 7:20 p.m.
Oak Tree Derby (gr. II) 11 7:55 p.m.

[Scav]

Byk, is that EST or PST?

[TheSpyder]

Sunset 6:20 pm so must be Eastern

[Kasept]

Byk, is that EST or PST?
:eek:


(All Eastern Time)

[Scav]

;) :eek:


(All Eastern Time)

[philcski]

:eek:


(All Eastern Time)

He lives in Chicago Mean Time... nothing else exists























:D

[-BT-]

:eek:


(All Eastern Time)


awesome, gives me almost all day to piss away my bankroll @ belmont and keenland until the first BC races..... nice:(

-bt-

[Scav]

He lives in Chicago Mean Time... nothing else exists

:D

You should have seen me in Kentucky last Sunday with the hour time change, I was all over the place, couldn't believe Belmont was still running, couldn't find Hawthorne, had no idea of the time...mental disaster

[Thunder Gulch]

You should have seen me in Kentucky last Sunday with the hour time change, I was all over the place, couldn't believe Belmont was still running, couldn't find Hawthorne, had no idea of the time...mental disaster

Had one of those days at the 2000 Breeders Cup. Went from CT to ET Zone and it was the week after the time changed from daylight savings. I dragged along a friend who happened to be drinking whiskey the entire way and kept me mixed up all day.

[westcoastinvader]

Sunset 6:20 pm so must be Eastern

It's going to be odd watching real time racing at 10:10 AM.

Took me long enough to adjust to 10AM NFL kickoffs......though now I love them....

[TheSpyder]

Ah, yea...10 minutes...he said Eastern time BTawesome, gives me almost all day to piss away my bankroll @ belmont and keenland until the first BC races..... nice:(

-bt-

[Slewbopper]

The Saturday card will start at 1:10 p.m. Eastern with the Marathon, followed by the Turf Sprint, 1:50; Dirt Mile, 2:30; Mile, 3:15; Juvenile, 3:55; Juvenile Turf, 4:35; Sprint, 5:15; Turf, 6:00; and Classic, 6:45. Two races, the Damascus Stakes and the Oak Tree Derby, will follow the Classic.


If the idiots that produce this circus had half a brain, they would run the nine races in 3 1/2 hours. There is less than 20 minutes of actual action in 6 hours. Ever wonder why nobody other than us watches the Breeders Cup?

[fpsoxfan]

The Saturday card will start at 1:10 p.m. Eastern with the Marathon, followed by the Turf Sprint, 1:50; Dirt Mile, 2:30; Mile, 3:15; Juvenile, 3:55; Juvenile Turf, 4:35; Sprint, 5:15; Turf, 6:00; and Classic, 6:45. Two races, the Damascus Stakes and the Oak Tree Derby, will follow the Classic.


If the idiots that produce this circus had half a brain, they would run the nine races in 3 1/2 hours. There is less than 20 minutes of actual action in 6 hours. Ever wonder why nobody other than us watches the Breeders Cup?

Seems like they could move it along a little quicker. It does provide good handicapping/drinking time in between races.

[Hickory Hill Hoff]

Seems like they could move it along a little quicker. It does provide good handicapping/drinking time in between races.

As well as driving down to the OTB to see Yakk :eek: .....did you know that it will be the last day at the Herkimer branch also, closing it's doors for good after the last race. :(

[fpsoxfan]

As well as driving down to the OTB to see Yakk :eek: .....did you know that it will be the last day at the Herkimer branch also, closing it's doors for good after the last race. :(Yeah..I heard that. Believe me, They would do the same for FP if they could get a bar to have an EZ Bet. With Herkimer leaving, maybe we will be spared for awhile.

[AeWingnut]

The Saturday card will start at 1:10 p.m. Eastern with the Marathon, followed by the Turf Sprint, 1:50; Dirt Mile, 2:30; Mile, 3:15; Juvenile, 3:55; Juvenile Turf, 4:35; Sprint, 5:15; Turf, 6:00; and Classic, 6:45. Two races, the Damascus Stakes and the Oak Tree Derby, will follow the Classic.


If the idiots that produce this circus had half a brain, they would run the nine races in 3 1/2 hours. There is less than 20 minutes of actual action in 6 hours. Ever wonder why nobody other than us watches the Breeders Cup?


so it's lke baseball

[The Bid]

Tomshito was supposed to be a monster. Ceaser come out come out wherever you are