Who's more incompetent: NYRA Stewards or Gabe Saez?

[The Indomitable DrugS]

One of the most awful rides you'll ever see - and one of the most idiotic DQ's you'll ever see.

It was a real joy to watch all that happen!

Alan Garcia did ride a brilliant race - and that is actually the first time I've ever seen a rider get put up a placing who did that much race riding from the break to the 1/8th pole.

[the_fat_man]

Can't get any worse than the NYC stewards. They get my vote by default. They proved their worth yet again today. Nice being able to continually **** UP and not having to answer to anyone.

[KirisClown]

Saez is a genius in comparison to any living Steward....

[Betsy]

I'm a Music Note fan who thinks the filly would likely have won anyway, BUT.......the stewards are incompetent. Why did PS get DQ'd? I don't get it. I thought the stewards were out of their minds when they didn't DQ Monastic Springs a few weeks ago, even though he came over on at least two horses.

[Pedigree Ann]

Had to know it wasn't Proud Spell's day when she put her nose to the ground coming out of the gate.

[King Glorious]

As if Music Note came away perfectly.

[Betsy]

Had to know it wasn't Proud Spell's day when she put her nose to the ground coming out of the gate.

Music Note stumbled, too. I guess anytime an odds on favorite loses, there has to be a reason, but going into the race, MN was a legitimately talented horse.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Music Note very well could have won anyway - and I would have preferred her of the two at those prices.

But thats not the point - Saez put on an all-time masterpiece of stupid race riding - while Garcia rode Proud Spell for the first 8 furlongs - and after arguably fouling PS 3 different times at meaningful stages of the race - he somehow got put up for a late bump that had no impact at all on the finish.

The only thing I can think of is that NYRA Stewards wanted to punish Saez for what they viewed as mildly careless riding in the final 1/8th - even though it had no impact on the outcome and was VERY unfair to the betting public.

[Betsy]

Music Note very well could have won anyway - and I would have preferred her of the two at those prices.

But thats not the point - Saez put on an all-time masterpiece of stupid race riding - while Garcia rode Proud Spell for the first 8 furlongs - and after arguably fouling PS 3 different times at meaningful stages of the race - he somehow got put up for a late bump that had no impact at all on the finish.

The only thing I can think of is that NYRA Stewards wanted to punish Saez for what they viewed as mildly careless riding in the final 1/8th - even though it had no impact on the outcome and was VERY unfair to the betting public.

Do you consider Saez' ride lousy because he kept her to the inside? I always thought that if a jock assumed he was on the best horse, he'd rather be wide and in the clear........

[The Indomitable DrugS]

He basically buried her from start to finish - and Garcia really did an amazing job of help making it the legendary bad ride it became. He deserves almost as much credit for Proud Spell's trip as Saez.

[the_fat_man]

He basically buried her from start to finish - and Garcia really did an amazing job of help making it the legendary bad ride it became. He deserves almost as much credit for Proud Spell's trip as Saez.

YEAH, Garcia pretty much exposed himself as a PUNK. Probably, 2nd only to Morales or Castellano given that ride. At some point, and it will be soon, Garcia will be BENT OVER by another jock, the way he bent Saez over today. Hope he takes as good as he gives and is as lucky as Saez was today (or Dominguez in the 4th, courtesy of Mr Castellano).

[Rupert Pupkin]

That is incredible that they took that horse down. There is not even a 1% chance that the incident changed the order of finish. Isn't the rule in New York the same as California? In California, they don't take a horse down unless the incident may have cost a horse a placing.

In a case like this, it is fine for them to give the jock days if they want to. But there is no reason to take the horse down.

[FGFan]

My vote goes to the NYRA stewards.
Baffling.
Sort of the same idea of when I think it was Caroline's Cat got taken out at the start by the eventual winner and they let the winner stand.

[ArlJim78]

you have to give it to the stewards, very bad takedown imo.

[horseofcourse]

It was a bit odd. It seemed a clear case of Proud Spell being cut off right as they concluded the turn...then the horse also bore in in mid stretch initiating contact with Proud Spell...then Proud Spell gets dq'd after passing with east while drifting out?? Yes, I'm biased as I would have won money with a 2nd place finish by Proud Spell hitting exacta's et all...but no way was any finish affected by the jocks. Music Note was the best...maybe Proud Spell is within a length with a better ride by Saez...but Saez was badly cut off by Garcia.

[parsixfarms]

I generally don't like to get involved in steward-bashing but their performance today was truly astonishing. They take Proud Spell down for an arguable foul that clearly had no impact on the outcome of the race (imagine being the place pool bridgejumpers that got taken down here), and yet they left Les Antiques (4th race) up for contact (crowding, bumping) that did appear to have an impact on the Frankel horse trying to get up the rail.

[jcs11204]

saez had a horrible day, but prolly has many big days ahead of him...
i almost feel bad for him after today, horrible,terrible ride on proud spell, and then in the next race, i think he just got outfinished and by rudy

[jcs11204]

It was a bit odd. It seemed a clear case of Proud Spell being cut off right as they concluded the turn...then the horse also bore in in mid stretch initiating contact with Proud Spell...then Proud Spell gets dq'd after passing with east while drifting out?? Yes, I'm biased as I would have won money with a 2nd place finish by Proud Spell hitting exacta's et all...but no way was any finish affected by the jocks. Music Note was the best...maybe Proud Spell is within a length with a better ride by Saez...but Saez was badly cut off by Garcia.
i totally disagree, proud spell had about as much trouble as you can possibly have in a race, and i think she wins with a clean trip

[horseofcourse]

i totally disagree, proud spell had about as much trouble as you can possibly have in a race, and i think she wins with a clean trip
It's possible. I'm just not sure she wins. I'm still just mad she got dq'd.

[parsixfarms]

i totally disagree, proud spell had about as much trouble as you can possibly have in a race, and i think she wins with a clean trip

If there's a re-match in the Alabama, who do you take? I think Music Note would like the 10F distance better, and Proud Spell will be underlaid based on today's trip.

[jcs11204]

If there's a re-match in the Alabama, who do you take? I think Music Note would like the 10F distance better, and Proud Spell will be underlaid based on today's trip.
i am a pick 3 and 4 player, so from a gambling point of view i'd probelly use both of them, like i did today... and whoever else looks decent, LOTS OF very good fillies could show up in the alabama....

just looking at it from who i think is better, the sky might be the limit for music note, but i want to see her beat the best, when the best gets even a decent trip, todays trip was a nightmare. so i would say proud spell still.

[Indian Charlie]

I think Proud Spell's chances would have been greatly improved if Shaq had ridden her.

[jcs11204]

I think Proud Spell's chances would have been greatly improved if Shaq had ridden her.
haha
how funny

[ELA]

haha
how funny

Yeah, he's done a terrible job with her.

Eric

[Bobby Fischer]

If there's a re-match in the Alabama, who do you take? NYRA Stewards, and Saez will both be chalk, I probably pass on that wager.:rolleyes:

[jcs11204]

Yeah, he's done a terrible job with her.

Eric

what ?
im lost

[ELA]

I was referring to Saez, and obviously I was being sarcastic.

Eric

[Indian Charlie]

what ?
im lost

Dude, forget it.

This is the guy who thinks Rose didn't hit that filly in the face on purpose and that trainers don't juice. Certain trainers that is.

He obviously didn't see the race today either.

[Indian Charlie]

This is painful.

[jcs11204]

This is painful.
im lost again

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by ELA
I was referring to Saez, and obviously I was being sarcastic.

Eric

me laughing was being sarcastic, i did not find the shaq comment funny at all


This is what I find painful. Is that better? I quoted your post that you deleted!

[jcs11204]

[QUOTE=Indian Charlie]This is what I find painful.[/

lol
it will be ok

[ELA]

Dude, forget it.

This is the guy who thinks Rose didn't hit that filly in the face on purpose and that trainers don't juice. Certain trainers that is.

He obviously didn't see the race today either.

I could see how much of a waste of time it would be for you to make an effort to participate in an intelligent conversation. I'm still waiting for an intelligent comment from you. Don't worry, I won't keep waiting.

Eric

[jcs11204]

I could see how much of a waste of time it would be for you to make an effort to participate in an intelligent conversation. I'm still waiting for an intelligent comment from you. Don't worry, I won't keep waiting.

Eric

now this is kind of funny
LOL

[Indian Charlie]

You two keep good company.

How that for an intelligent remark?!

[docicu3]

One of the most awful rides you'll ever see - and one of the most idiotic DQ's you'll ever see.

It was a real joy to watch all that happen!

Alan Garcia did ride a brilliant race - and that is actually the first time I've ever seen a rider get put up a placing who did that much race riding from the break to the 1/8th pole.

This is exactly the kind of thing that Vic S. was asking the DT community about the only difference being this was NY and that Vic was asking what the fans want from California stewards when a ruling is made that alters the order of finish. In california you get the telestrator explanation with a narrative.

Of course if the NY stewards tried to explain, as California does, what they were doing and why the order of finish changed in this race it is likely more controversy would lead to even more outrage than the silence of a strange and almost dirty looking ruling.

[Bobby Fischer]

almost dirty looking ruling.
Almost?

1st garcia does everything he can to take proud spell out of the exacta, and then the stewards take her down when garcia screws up. The only thing more convincing would be evidence that there was tampering with the starting gate area in front of post positions 1 and 2.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

This is exactly the kind of thing that Vic S. was asking the DT community about the only difference being this was NY and that Vic was asking what the fans want from California stewards when a ruling is made that alters the order of finish. In california you get the telestrator explanation with a narrative.

Of course if the NY stewards tried to explain, as California does, what they were doing and why the order of finish changed in this race it is likely more controversy would lead to even more outrage than the silence of a strange and almost dirty looking ruling.

I would love to hear the stewards say:

"after reviewing the replay - we have concluded that Garcia almost fouled Saez on three seperate occasions but in our view he didn't quite cross the line each time. Even though they were at meaningful stages of the race and clearly hurt Proud Spell's chances - it was just good ruthless race riding by Garcia. Each time he walked the line - but didn't cross it.

However, when Proud Spell came out in the final 1/16th - he bumped Garcia's mount some as he exploded by her. Though that incident had no impact on the outcome - we believe he crossed the line just enough to warrent a dq."

That would go over very well with the bettors.

[jcs11204]

I would love to hear the stewards say:

"after reviewing the replay - we have concluded that Garcia almost fouled Saez on three seperate occasions but in our view he didn't quite cross the line each time. Even though they were at meaningful stages of the race and clearly hurt Proud Spell's chances - it was just good ruthless race riding by Garcia. Each time he walked the line - but didn't cross it.

However, when Proud Spell came out in the final 1/16th - he bumped Garcia's mount some as he exploded by her. Though that incident had no impact on the outcome - we believe he crossed the line just enough to warrent a dq."

That would go over very well with the bettors.

i value your opinion....
so with a clean trip, does proud spell win ?

[horseofcourse]

Almost?

1st garcia does everything he can to take proud spell out of the exacta, and then the stewards take her down when garcia screws up. The only thing more convincing would be evidence that there was tampering with the starting gate area in front of post positions 1 and 2.

Garcia almost puts Proud Spell and Saez through the fence exiting the turn...drift out running into the Hamsa horse in upper stretch...then starts turning inward after that initiating contact with Proud Spell in mid stretch as Proud Spell was drifting out slightly at that point but not as pronounced as the Garcia horse was bearing inward...then right at the end, Proud Spell drifts out badly but still accelerating away from the Garcia horse and Saez gets dq'd. It's quite upsetting for those of us who had exacta money on Proud Spell and Music Note and bridge jumper place money on Proud Spell!

[The Indomitable DrugS]

i value your opinion....
so with a clean trip, does proud spell win ?

I don't know.

[horseofcourse]

I would love to hear the stewards say:

"after reviewing the replay - we have concluded that Garcia almost fouled Saez on three seperate occasions but in our view he didn't quite cross the line each time. Even though they were at meaningful stages of the race and clearly hurt Proud Spell's chances - it was just good ruthless race riding by Garcia. Each time he walked the line - but didn't cross it.

However, when Proud Spell came out in the final 1/16th - he bumped Garcia's mount some as he exploded by her. Though that incident had no impact on the outcome - we believe he crossed the line just enough to warrent a dq."

That would go over very well with the bettors.

:D :D
that is quite funny!

[docicu3]

I would love to hear the stewards say:

"after reviewing the replay - we have concluded that Garcia almost fouled Saez on three seperate occasions but in our view he didn't quite cross the line each time. Even though they were at meaningful stages of the race and clearly hurt Proud Spell's chances - it was just good ruthless race riding by Garcia. Each time he walked the line - but didn't cross it.

However, when Proud Spell came out in the final 1/16th - he bumped Garcia's mount some as he exploded by her. Though that incident had no impact on the outcome - we believe he crossed the line just enough to warrent a dq."

That would go over very well with the bettors.

Exactly.....we could have an Andy segment. "Stupid Steward Screwups"....brought to you by "NYRA rewards"....eclipse awards would have to be added ......great stuff!!

[pgardn]

You got a 4 horse race, and 3 out of the 4 stumble, two almost to the knees.
What the heck?
Did a little ground squirrel get in the dirt and root around in the ground in that gate?

[Bobby Fischer]

the new york race fixing racket's newest member is a Groundhog.

Doesn't say a whole lot for Alan Garcia when he can't get a job done without help from Punxsatawny Phil

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Well, I couldn't of cared less who came 1st-2nd-3rd in this race, but I was in a Vegas sportsbook watching it all go down. At the time, my sole conclusion from what took place was the stewards were playing homers. Garcia obviously shut this horse off badly coming into the stretch, and so( for Proud Spell to come 2nd) it's pretty obvious Proud Spell was much better than Garcia's horse. Either you care who was the better horse, or you don't. Anyone watching that race could see that Proud Spell was atleast 2nd best, and the incident in the stretch didn't cost anyone a placing. The only reason they would do this is to help out a rider who is normally riding the NYRA tracks. They didn't do it to help horseplayers out. 99% of the people betting that race know Proud Spell was atleast 2nd best on the day. As far as I am concerned, the 2 calls early on the Thursday Hwd Park card were both incorrect as well. To be honest, I think there was personal bias in all three calls. The 1st one on Thursday was payback for Nakatani saying the stewards didn't know what they were doing(last weekend when he thought he should of got put up in a stakes.) The 2nd one was an amazing no call on an apprentice repeatedly allowing a horse to keep coming out on a horse on the turn, the top of the stretch, the middle of the stretch, and in deep stretch. Exactly how much further did the outside horse have to run to avoid the horse who simply keeps coming out threatening to come over? You really think a horse is gunna go by a horse that keeps coming over on it that way? I'm sure he is a nice kid, but overlooking that (just so the kid can keep his 1st win ever at the track) is pretty pathetic.

[parsixfarms]

On that one, I thought they got it right. Most of the problems were not caused by Monastic Springs, but by the horse that finished second (drifted causing chain reaction in which MS was involved).

[stonegossard]

I was away all weekend and just catching up now, but why does everything turn gay with you?



I think the fatman secretly has a crush on Prado and a few other jocks.


Fatman and Prado sittin in a tree...................

[philcski]

Just watched the replay, that was maybe the worst DQ I've ever seen. An absolute crime to take her down, the 3 lugging in coming off the turn almost sent her over the rail!!!! HOW THE F DO YOU PUT THE 3 UP AFTER THAT?!?!? F*CK!

[ArlJim78]

Just watched the replay, that was maybe the worst DQ I've ever seen. An absolute crime to take her down, the 3 lugging in coming off the turn almost sent her over the rail!!!! HOW THE F DO YOU PUT THE 3 UP AFTER THAT?!?!? F*CK!
i agree, the word CRIME came to my mind as well. i don't recall a more baseless action by the stewards.

[Stall Mucker]

It is overwhelming to read all the negative posts about every aspect of thoroughbred racing at NYRA tracks. Makes me think of the worst bullrings in Mexico. Yet, NY racing, as written in national publications, is the best racing in the US. Hmmm.

[10 pnt move up]

From Steve Crist formblog

"I would prefer to see the stewards exercise their judgment"

Man he has a lot more faith in the stewards and their judgement then I do rather then a "foul is a foul" mentality.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Was the horse better than the 3rd place finisher? Yes.

Did it cost the 3rd place horse a better placing? No.

If they want to punish Saez for what took place, then fine, but I don't understand this decision to d.q. Atleast in the 2 races at HWD (on Thursday) it wasn't nearly as obvious who was the better horse (on the day.)

[philcski]

Was the horse better than the 3rd place finisher? Yes.

Did it cost the 3rd place horse a better placing? No.

If they want to punish Saez for what took place, then fine, but I don't understand this decision to d.q. Atleast in the 2 races at HWD (on Thursday) it wasn't nearly as obvious who was the better horse (on the day.)

Agree on both points- That should be the determination of whether a horse gets disqualified or not, end of story.

[Revidere]

YEAH, Garcia pretty much exposed himself as a PUNK. Probably, 2nd only to Morales or Castellano given that ride. At some point, and it will be soon, Garcia will be BENT OVER by another jock, the way he bent Saez over today. Hope he takes as good as he gives and is as lucky as Saez was today (or Dominguez in the 4th, courtesy of Mr Castellano).

Harsh words!!! You fail to mention that if this was the 70's Saez would have been swimming in the lake by the time they got through with him.

Face it. Garcia rode a brilliant race. If I owned a nag, I'd want to see that instead of opening up a red carpet for another jock. It's a Grade 1, not Mr's Smithers finishing school.

[CSC]

I'm very late on this, but I didn't think Saez's ride was worth this much ink...The stumble probably hurt him more than trying to squeeze up the rail. I think Mccaron's ride in the Preakness on Touch Gold IMO was worse. Just off the top of my head of one that comes to mind.

[Handicappy]

Music Note very well could have won anyway - and I would have preferred her of the two at those prices.

But thats not the point - Saez put on an all-time masterpiece of stupid race riding - while Garcia rode Proud Spell for the first 8 furlongs - and after arguably fouling PS 3 different times at meaningful stages of the race - he somehow got put up for a late bump that had no impact at all on the finish.

The only thing I can think of is that NYRA Stewards wanted to punish Saez for what they viewed as mildly careless riding in the final 1/8th - even though it had no impact on the outcome and was VERY unfair to the betting public.
I think the NYRA Stewards were paying Mclaughlin back for missing a very nasty incident a couple of weeks ago when Cornelio was bumped and practically put a Mclaughlin/Garcia horse over the rail. Garcia claimed foul, they called the race official before he got off the horse. I know there was a hearing about it. Not that Saez didn't deserve something for that ride but I agree I don't think it was all that critical.

[parsixfarms]

I think the NYRA Stewards were paying Mclaughlin back for missing a very nasty incident a couple of weeks ago when Cornelio was bumped and practically put a Mclaughlin/Garcia horse over the rail. Garcia claimed foul, they called the race official before he got off the horse. I know there was a hearing about it. Not that Saez didn't deserve something for that ride but I agree I don't think it was all that critical.

You think they're going to move Never Retreat up in a Grade I race to compensate them for "missing" something that occurred in a maiden race to a first-time starter that McLaughlin saddled for a totally different owner??

[the_fat_man]

Harsh words!!! You fail to mention that if this was the 70's Saez would have been swimming in the lake by the time they got through with him.

Face it. Garcia rode a brilliant race. If I owned a nag, I'd want to see that instead of opening up a red carpet for another jock. It's a Grade 1, not Mr's Smithers finishing school.


Really? I thought the objective was to try to win the race for YOUR horse. Not to AID or HINDER another. Isn't that really what they have stewards for?

And how did Garcia really ride brilliantly? He rode like a PUNK and ASSED out with a ridiculous decision by the stewards. Is that something to laud? Do you want the stewards to continue the insanity?

Well thought out. And this **** only works if you have a bunch of incompetents as the 'ruling' body.

The interesting thing is in a high speed game with reckless participants nobody is immune from bad luck.

[the_fat_man]

I was away all weekend and just catching up now, but why does everything turn gay with you?

I think you need to go back in the IGGY BIN with Fischer and the rest of the idiots cause I can never make any sense of your ****. HEADS UP.

[Handicappy]

You think they're going to move Never Retreat up in a Grade I race to compensate them for "missing" something that occurred in a maiden race to a first-time starter that McLaughlin saddled for a totally different owner??
Yup. Obviously they included other factors but I am certain that figured into it.

[blackthroatedwind]

Yup. Obviously they included other factors but I am certain that figured into it.


That's quite an accusation.

I am certain it had absolutely nothing to do with it and the race from Belmont Day never entered their minds.

[ArlJim78]

That's quite an accusation.

I am certain it had absolutely nothing to do with it and the race from Belmont Day never entered their minds.
what was in their minds then?

[blackthroatedwind]

what was in their minds then?

That Saez fouled the third finisher. Sorry....he did. It is probably reasonable to assume that they believed he did it out of frustration for being race-ridden the entire contest by Garcia....as well as his frustration over his overall trip and subsequent defeat. But, the bottom line is that Saez fouled the other horse.

However, I am not saying I think it was a great decision, and I could easily argue the other side. But, I can offer a likely scenerio as to what they were thinking.

[ArlJim78]

That Saez fouled the third finisher. Sorry....he did. It is probably reasonable to assume that they believed he did it out of frustration for being race-ridden the entire contest by Garcia....as well as his frustration over his overall trip and subsequent defeat. But, the bottom line is that Saez fouled the other horse.

However, I am not saying I think it was a great decision, and I could easily argue the other side. But, I can offer a likely scenerio as to what they were thinking.
that wasn't much of a foul if you ask me, and didn't cost the horse a chance at a better placing.

do you think the call was fair? i don't.

[blackthroatedwind]

that wasn't much of a foul if you ask me, and didn't cost the horse a chance at a better placing.

do you think the call was fair? i don't.

I told you what I think.

I'm rarely a fan of DQs in general. That shouldn't be a surprise.

[Handicappy]

That's quite an accusation.

I am certain it had absolutely nothing to do with it and the race from Belmont Day never entered their minds.
I know, I know but it is just my opinion. I wasn't surprised with the take down. I could argue the other way as well. Just my opinion.