Go Israel

[TeddyRex]

It's about time. Funny thing is that IRAN has been funding this crap.

[Bold Brooklynite]

It's about time. Funny thing is that IRAN has been funding this crap.
Yeah ... that a real yocker ... but ...

... before too long ... the joke's gonna be on the Persian puzzycats.

[TeddyRex]

Armed militants across the border in Mexico sent 70 rockets pounding into urban areas of San Diego. The Mexican government stated that there was nothing they could or would do about this attack. Three hundred and twenty people died in the attack.

The UN has told the US to show restraint in regards to the attack.

HOW WOULD YOU FEEL IF THIS WERE TRUE?

[SentToStud]

Armed militants across the border in Mexico sent 70 rockets pounding into urban areas of San Diego. The Mexican government stated that there was nothing they could or would do about this attack. Three hundred and twenty people died in the attack.

The UN has told the US to show restraint in regards to the attack.

HOW WOULD YOU FEEL IF THIS WERE TRUE?


Oy, oy, oy....

Well, if the U.S. was occupying Tijuana or Juarez or Metamoras illegally when this happened then I'd feel pissed off if I was a Mexican.

And if the U.S. had a long-standing history of of negotiating with extremist groups and trading 400 prisoners to get one back (a la Israel), well I'd feel pretty pissed off about that too.

[somerfrost]

Oy, oy, oy....

Well, if the U.S. was occupying Tijuana or Juarez or Metamoras illegally when this happened then I'd feel pissed off if I was a Mexican.

And if the U.S. had a long-standing history of of negotiating with extremist groups and trading 400 prisoners to get one back (a la Israel), well I'd feel pretty pissed off about that too.


What a bunch of crap...I'd feel Ok because by the time the defenders of terrorism like yourself posted crap like this, the US Military would be standing on a pile of ashes that once was Northern Mexico!

[SentToStud]

What a bunch of crap...I'd feel Ok because by the time the defenders of terrorism like yourself posted crap like this, the US Military would be standing on a pile of ashes that once was Northern Mexico!

Nah, I'm not a supporter of terrorism. No way. But I do think the Palestinians and the Lebanese have a right to be pissed off.

Why is it that if someone doesn't see the world the way the staunchest pro-Israeli folks see it they are automatically American-haters and supporters of terrorism?

That I do not understand. Like billions of people, I just see the world differently than you.

[somerfrost]

Nah, I'm not a supporter of terrorism. No way. But I do think the Palestinians and the Lebanese have a right to be pissed off.

Why is it that if someone doesn't see the world the way the staunchest pro-Israeli folks see it they are automatically American-haters and supporters of terrorism?

That I do not understand. Like billions of people, I just see the world differently than you.

You have every right to see the world any way you want...but read your reply, in responding to a terrorist attack that takes hundreds of innocent American lives, likely many women and children, you editoralize on occupation and past methodology....some folks try way to hard to prove they are intelligent...guess what, so am I! In fact if folks want to compare IQ's....anyway, not important. My response to such an attack....BOOOOM!!!!

[SentToStud]

You have every right to see the world any way you want...but read your reply, in responding to a terrorist attack that takes hundreds of innocent American lives, likely many women and children, you editoralize on occupation and past methodology....some folks try way to hard to prove they are intelligent...guess what, so am I! In fact if folks want to compare IQ's....anyway, not important. My response to such an attack....BOOOOM!!!!

Oy. Well, you go on and twist it whatever way your high IQ will alow. And, if it doesn't tax your intellect, answer this... Do the Palestinians have any valid grievances against Israel? That's a simple enough question. I am rapt awaiting your response.

[somerfrost]

Oy. Well, you go on and twist it whatever way your high IQ will alow. And, if it doesn't tax your intellect, answer this... Do the Palestinians have any valid grievances against Israel? That's a simple enough question. I am rapt awaiting your response.

Of course they have valid grievances, but they have equally valid grievances against Syria, Iran and the entire terrorist world that uses their grief and honest anger to turn them into cannon fodder. There are lots of folks that I feel I have honest grievances against...I'm not allowed to kill them or their families and children...nor would I want to do so! You can't rationalize away the cold hard fact that terrorists are evil and cannot be reasoned with...if you live next door to one, I'm sorry for your situation but I'd strongly advise you to move!

[timmgirvan]

The Palestinians should have grievances against their decades of leaders and the other Arab countries that have used them as pawns in political BS!

[SentToStud]

Damn! Palestinians can't get no love from anyone. Well, here's my last contribution to a torrid topic.

1. Terrorism is bad.
2. Hezbo is bad. Much of Hamas too. So too are the other half-dozen or so other etremist Islamic groups as well as the far-right -of-right Zionists who wish ill on Arab people regardless of nationalilty or religion.
3. No easily named "good guys" or "bad guys" in this.
4. It's a failure of politics. WTF did people expect to happen in Lebanon? Fledgling democracy fairly ignored by the West with Hezbo ALLOWED to participate politically.
5. I'm not nuts about the Israelis' past history of negotiating trades of prisoners.
6. Not all Arabs want to see the Israelis pushed into the sea. Certainly I do not.
7. Much of the non-US, non-Israel world sees the rise of terrorism as the unfortunate result of the Palestinian issue. Without that issue resolved, the legitimacy of these radical groups does increase. Right or wrong.
8. Whatever happened to the "roadmap" to peace? Plenty of blame to go around.
9. I do believe the "lasting peace" goes through Palestine and the implementation of a two-state solution.
10. Wherever and whomever your thoughts are with, I hope you and yours stay safe.

No offenses meant and certainly none taken. Truly the issue of our time.

[somerfrost]

Damn! Palestinians can't get no love from anyone. Well, here's my last contribution to a torrid topic.

1. Terrorism is bad.
2. Hezbo is bad. Much of Hamas too. So too are the other half-dozen or so other etremist Islamic groups as well as the far-right -of-right Zionists who wish ill on Arab people regardless of nationalilty or religion.
3. No easily named "good guys" or "bad guys" in this.
4. It's a failure of politics. WTF did people expect to happen in Lebanon? Fledgling democracy fairly ignored by the West with Hezbo ALLOWED to participate politically.
5. I'm not nuts about the Israelis' past history of negotiating trades of prisoners.
6. Not all Arabs want to see the Israelis pushed into the sea. Certainly I do not.
7. Much of the non-US, non-Israel world sees the rise of terrorism as the unfortunate result of the Palestinian issue. Without that issue resolved, the legitimacy of these radical groups does increase. Right or wrong.
8. Whatever happened to the "roadmap" to peace? Plenty of blame to go around.
9. I do believe the "lasting peace" goes through Palestine and the implementation of a two-state solution.
10. Wherever and whomever your thoughts are with, I hope you and yours stay safe.

No offenses meant and certainly none taken. Truly the issue of our time.


Agreed, and I have to admit that I enjoy antagonizing a bit. I am 25% Arab and a strong supporter of Israel but there is plenty of blame on all sides. I think the tough talk is necessary for diplomacy to have a chance but I hope down deep, we all pray for peace! If you doubt me on this, a quick glance at my Myspace site might convince you I'm somewhat tongue-in-cheek here at times.

[Bold Brooklynite]

The Palestinians should have grievances against their decades of leaders and the other Arab countries that have used them as pawns in political BS!
Tim ... I made that point 47 times on another thread.

Arabia is the homeland for Arabs ... it's a very large and wealthy country ... yet its rulers keep Palestinians ... a/k/a Judean Arabs ... out of there at the point of a gun ... and so do all the other countries run by their Arab "brethren."

Yet the Palestinians are convinced that teeny-tiny Israel is their enemy and oppressor. Can the Palestinians be dumber? It's hard to see how.

[SentToStud]

It was said today that if a major invasion of Lebanon was to take place by the IDF the Christian Arabs would join their Moslem brothers in annhilating the state of Isarel. This threat reinforces by belief that the only good Arab is a dead Arab. I still believe that the time will come, sooner rather than later, when US hating Arabs will no longer be able to walk America's streets in safety, especially in Fl., Tex. and the Bible Belt.

My daughter's teacher was killed in Lebanon Thursday. The military funeral was 3:00 pm yesterday. He leaves behind a wife and 6 Mos. old twins.

I am sickened by the casualties we are taking. For the life of me I do not understand the reasoning behind having a nuclear arsenal and not USING it.

Hiroshima and Nagasaki PROVED "nuclear action" WORKS. Although the decimation of Tokyo and Dresden was far greater than that of Hiroshima and Nagasaki the message was gotten and the war ended in a matter of days, not weeks.

I am fully aware of the problems in nuking Lebanon (to close to our border and the winds could cause havoc to Israel). The same problem DOES NOT exist with Damascus and Tehran.

Mssrs. Olmert and Bush,

The TIME has COME................

Dateline: Haifa, Israel

Well, I had "retired" from this thread, but I'll make a special exception for this wingnut.

1. Your "only good Arab is a dead Arab" comment ... bigotry noted. Tsk, tsk.

2. Arabs at risk in FL, Tx, etc....? Well, we're getting along just fine with our Semite bretheren down here in So Flo. Are the "death squads" more active in Texas? Have Bush Sr.'s vast array of Saudi pals been disinvited from the barbeques?

3. Yes, the Lebanese are showing some spine. Why the hell shouldn't they? Israel was way off in assessing this likelihood. They will amass more and more troops at the border in a show of strength but that's about as far as they'll go. The Israelis, as I noted several times, want no part of the Syrians.

4. Use of nuclear weapons? For this? A border skirmish? Really now. I"t's not going to happen. I think you imagine yorself strapped to a bomb headed for Damascus waving your hat like in that movie.... yee ha!

5, Your daughter's teacher. Too bad but, as you noted, there will be casualties. May Allah have mercy on his soul.

A couple years ago Israel traded 430 prisoners to get back Elhanan. Bad, very bad precedent. Hopefully Israel will not continue down this ill-advised path. Instead of focusing on trading prisoners this time, hopefully Israel will work harder on a longer-term solution.

[somerfrost]

Well, two things...there will be no uniting of Arabs worldwide against Israel, that's an empty threat. secondly, Syria would stand no chance against the Israeli army...none, zip, nada! I mean really, Syria fighting a conventional war, defending themselves instead of brainwashing others into doing their fighting for them??? Wouldn't last but a couple days! Iran would be a lot tougher, rough country side coupled with actual fanatics...but the result would never be in doubt!

[dalakhani]

Well, two things...there will be no uniting of Arabs worldwide against Israel, that's an empty threat. secondly, Syria would stand no chance against the Israeli army...none, zip, nada! I mean really, Syria fighting a conventional war, defending themselves instead of brainwashing others into doing their fighting for them??? Wouldn't last but a couple days! Iran would be a lot tougher, rough country side coupled with actual fanatics...but the result would never be in doubt!

lets make it clear that the Israeli army is basically a branch of the US military. Lets make that clear. a couple of billion a year over the last fifty will give you some pretty sweet little gadgets.

I love how someone who claims to be "further left than anyone on this forum" speaks of war as if it is some kind of sporting contest. I love how someone who claims to want to "compare IQ scores" could come across as being so utterly ignorant.

[Bold Brooklynite]

It was said today that if a major invasion of Lebanon was to take place by the IDF the Christian Arabs would join their Moslem brothers in annhilating the state of Isarel. This threat reinforces by belief that the only good Arab is a dead Arab. I still believe that the time will come, sooner rather than later, when US hating Arabs will no longer be able to walk America's streets in safety, especially in Fl., Tex. and the Bible Belt.

My daughter's teacher was killed in Lebanon Thursday. The military funeral was 3:00 pm yesterday. He leaves behind a wife and 6 Mos. old twins.

I am sickened by the casualties we are taking. For the life of me I do not understand the reasoning behind having a nuclear arsenal and not USING it.

Hiroshima and Nagasaki PROVED "nuclear action" WORKS. Although the decimation of Tokyo and Dresden was far greater than that of Hiroshima and Nagasaki the message was gotten and the war ended in a matter of days, not weeks.

I am fully aware of the problems in nuking Lebanon (to close to our border and the winds could cause havoc to Israel). The same problem DOES NOT exist with Damascus and Tehran.

Mssrs. Olmert and Bush,

The TIME has COME................

Dateline: Haifa, Israel
Sorry to learn about your daughter's teacher. What a tragedy for his beautiful family. He gave his life defending freedom ... may it not have been in vain.

But I think all this jabber about the Lebanese army joining with Hezbollah ... is just that ... a bunch of jabber and political posturing. I don't think there's the remotest chance that they will do that ... or that they even want to.

Ralph Peters today compared Olmert to Clinton ... a weak leader who only sends out bombers ... but who is afraid to put boots on the ground. I hope and pray that isn't true ... but so far Olmert gets a "D" ... and is closing in on an "F." What a mistake Israel made by not putting Bibi back in charge.

[Assttodixie]

.
I voted for Bibi EVERY time he ran, both in the primaries and the general electons. He lives across the street from my familly on Hadar St. in Caesarea. Ironically when he lived in the US and I lived at 19 E. 80th ST. he lived on 81st and Madison (destined to be neighbors).

The above being said, I think the op Olmert is running (giving the IDF and the IAF Generals the dice) has been FLAWLESS.

Once again, I am SICK of taking casualties. F**K the ground invasion and DOUBLE F**K occupation.

YOU have sophisticated nuclear ordinance, USE IT................

Gen. George Patton, "Let some other bastard die for HIS country".

Okay, boss- Ive talked to Mr. Olmert and he has decided to use your war strategy. I knew it wouldnt take long. Whether it is advising Bobby Frankel or PM Olmert they all know the man with the master plan and that Dixie!

Mr. Olmert at first questioned the rationale of using Nuclear weapons against a BORDERING country. He said something about fallout and radiation and how it might do just as much harm to his own people.

He also mentioned something about the use of Nuclear weapons being Illegal but i dont know how he would begin to even imagine that Dixie didnt know that.

There were a couple of other issues but at the end of the conversation he just said "hey, if Dixie says 'drop the bomb' that means 'drop the bomb'".

I sure am proud of you boss. Your politics and war planning are extremely sound and thought out. Perhaps Mr. Bush should start listening.

[Downthestretch55]

Okay, boss- Ive talked to Mr. Olmert and he has decided to use your war strategy. I knew it wouldnt take long. Whether it is advising Bobby Frankel or PM Olmert they all know the man with the master plan and that Dixie!

Mr. Olmert at first questioned the rationale of using Nuclear weapons against a BORDERING country. He said something about fallout and radiation and how it might do just as much harm to his own people.

He also mentioned something about the use of Nuclear weapons being Illegal but i dont know how he would begin to even imagine that Dixie didnt know that.

There were a couple of other issues but at the end of the conversation he just said "hey, if Dixie says 'drop the bomb' that means 'drop the bomb'".

I sure am proud of you boss. Your politics and war planning are extremely sound and thought out. Perhaps Mr. Bush should start listening.
Assisttodixie,
Now we're talking! Let's get this done as soon as possible.
Otherwise, Hezzbos are going to take lessons from the Vietnamese on how to sharpen bamboo, if ya know what I mean.
The USA and Israel shouldn't have to endure the indignity of getting their
butts handed to them by people that uses bicycles, sharpened sticks, and strap on bombs. Looks like they're running low on katuskas. Let's get this over with! Dixie is right! Now need for further talk!!!
Bring it on!

[Bold Brooklynite]

Okay, boss- Ive talked to Mr. Olmert and he has decided to use your war strategy. I knew it wouldnt take long. Whether it is advising Bobby Frankel or PM Olmert they all know the man with the master plan and that Dixie!

Mr. Olmert at first questioned the rationale of using Nuclear weapons against a BORDERING country. He said something about fallout and radiation and how it might do just as much harm to his own people.

He also mentioned something about the use of Nuclear weapons being Illegal but i dont know how he would begin to even imagine that Dixie didnt know that.

There were a couple of other issues but at the end of the conversation he just said "hey, if Dixie says 'drop the bomb' that means 'drop the bomb'".

I sure am proud of you boss. Your politics and war planning are extremely sound and thought out. Perhaps Mr. Bush should start listening.
Fupeg ... Fupeg ... we already knew that you weren't Dixie's favorite piece of assistant ... and this post only affirms it.

Dixie has already posted that Israel shouldn't use nukes on a neighboring country ... but should drop them way up in Syria ... where they'll have the best military effect ... and the least ancillary fallout.

If he really were your Boss ... wouldn't you have typed out his earlier post ... and known what was in it?

Now go back to those two cute kids ... and be a good little mommy ... and let the big, strong, chiselled-chin men do all the heavy thinking.

[Rupert Pupkin]

lets make it clear that the Israeli army is basically a branch of the US military. Lets make that clear. a couple of billion a year over the last fifty will give you some pretty sweet little gadgets.

I love how someone who claims to be "further left than anyone on this forum" speaks of war as if it is some kind of sporting contest. I love how someone who claims to want to "compare IQ scores" could come across as being so utterly ignorant.
I don't think that there is any contradiction about someone who leans left being a strong supporter of Israel. It's basically a non-partisan issue. Israel has strong bi-partisan support in both the House and the Senate.
With regard to your contention that some people sound like they are pro-war, nobody likes war, but there isn't any alternative when you're dealing with terrorists.

[Bold Brooklynite]

.
I think the op Olmert is running (giving the IDF and the IAF Generals the dice) has been FLAWLESS.

I'll cede to you, johnny-on-the-spot ... and hope and pray that you're right.

By the way ... you may have noticed that Fupeg is back on the scene with her record machine ... claiming to be your favorite piece of assistant.

That's only because things are so excruciatingly boring over at that other forum ... that her middlingly creative mind is screaming for a satisfactory outlet ...

... which she can only find by trailing us around.

If only she were smart enough to recognize that we're her natural allies and mentors ... she'd have a much, much happier life. Oh Fu ... Fu ... Fu ... you've made such bad choices of "friends" ... please pray to God to give you the gift of a bit more wisdom.

[Assttodixie]

Got a feelin my 2nd favorite poster is hittin the bottle agin. Previously when she was trolling around back of my tail she would not have made such a dumb and humiliating error.

As far as nulear fallout, we have the most sophisticated nuclear arsenal in the world (YES that includes the US). Today's weaponary is clean enough so that no matter what the wind conditions Israel would go untouched after strikes on Damascus and Tehran.. Even a drunk like fupeg would still take a long look at the wheather before deployment of such ordinance just to be on "the side of the angels".

In keeping the record straight, although I am eccstatically happy, impressed and amazed by the job Olmert is doing, I did not vote for him. I voted for Bibi. As a last fact, I have never met, nor talked to the man, although I would be honored to do so.

Going on the record one last time, Olmert made one gross MISCALCULATION. He said we would bomb Lebanon back into the early 80's.
Had he calculated correctly he would have said the early 1940's.

Boss-

You always have the answers. Ive learned so much from you! The WORLD has learned so much from you. Just think- it wasnt until today that i find out that Israel has more advanced Nuclear capability than the US. Those secret underground facilities and their single reactor would definitely trump anything the US may have. i mean,the US has only been making nuclear weapons since before Israel was even in existance. Israeli nuclear technology was only MOSTLY borrowed from the US so it only figures that they would have a more sophisticated arsenal. Hey, maybe thats why they didnt sign the NPT. One step ahead as always boss. One step ahead.

And as far as fallout travelling, how would they know? How would they be able to test it? And if they did test it, wouldnt that be...illegal?????? Damascus is a little more than 100 miles from Jerusalem (of course- you knew that) so there isnt a chance with all of that sophisticated, untested technology that it could possibly travel that far or even to other places. You are right again boss...right again.

Yes, now i know why Olmert listens to you. Your war strategy is absolutely brilliant! Napolean salutes you from his grave.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Boss-

You always have the answers. Ive learned so much from you! The WORLD has learned so much from you. Just think- it wasnt until today that i find out that Israel has more advanced Nuclear capability than the US. Those secret underground facilities and their single reactor would definitely trump anything the US may have. i mean,the US has only been making nuclear weapons since before Israel was even in existance. Israeli nuclear technology was only MOSTLY borrowed from the US so it only figures that they would have a more sophisticated arsenal. Hey, maybe thats why they didnt sign the NPT. One step ahead as always boss. One step ahead.

And as far as fallout travelling, how would they know? How would they be able to test it? And if they did test it, wouldnt that be...illegal?????? Damascus is a little more than 100 miles from Jerusalem (of course- you knew that) so there isnt a chance with all of that sophisticated, untested technology that it could possibly travel that far or even to other places. You are right again boss...right again.

Yes, now i know why Olmert listens to you. Your war strategy is absolutely brilliant! Napolean salutes you from his grave.
That is news to me that "Israeli nuclear technology was mostly borrowed from the US". I know I shouldn't doubt you after reading all of your brilliant posts, but what is your source on that information?

[boldruler]

Why does anyone care about Israel or Lebanon? Neither has anything to offer the world. They could blow each other up and nothing would happen. There is no oil there and the people are all religious nuts. They don't even have good horse racing there. I would love to see both blow themselves up so we could get back to following the war that OUR COUNTRY is involved with.

[Bold Brooklynite]

That is news to me that "Israeli nuclear technology was mostly borrowed from the US". I know I shouldn't doubt you after reading all of your brilliant posts, but what is your source on that information?
Her source?

Dixie already told us ...

... it's that bottle of hooch she keeps hidden under the trailer.

[Bold Brooklynite]

Why does anyone care about Israel or Lebanon? Neither has anything to offer the world. They could blow each other up and nothing would happen. There is no oil there and the people are all religious nuts. They don't even have good horse racing there. I would love to see both blow themselves up so we could get back to following the war that OUR COUNTRY is involved with.
Sorry, kid ... it's the SAME war ...

... and Israel is on OUR side.

It's very interesting that you consider human beings to be expendable if they're religious. You didn't really mean to say that ... did you?

And as far as good horse racing goes ... all thoroughbreds descend from Middle Eastern horses ... even Bold Ruler ... whose father ... by the way ... was bred by the Aga Khan.

[Assttodixie]

That is news to me that "Israeli nuclear technology was mostly borrowed from the US". I know I shouldn't doubt you after reading all of your brilliant posts, but what is your source on that information?

First of all Mr. pumpkin, im not the brilliant one, Dixie is. The only brilliance ive shown is going to work for such a brilliant man. I have the best job in the world. Dixie is not only a world class horse trainer, poker player and socialite-he is now the behind the scenes defense minister/war planner/foreign policy maker in Israel.

Now, to answer your question (and i hope the boss doesnt mind me speaking out of school. this is really classified stuff here), it is common knowledge where Israel got its Nuclear technology. If it is news to you, then this probably wont be a very fruitful exchange for me but I'll humor you anyway. French Scientists working on the Manhattan project were "allowed" to give the technology to Israel. Furthermore, one Israeli scientist actually worked in Los Alamos. That is the basis for the entire program.

And it goes on through the years. Before US technology for missile delivery, Israel borrowed US technology to deliver the bomb via plane. Do you know what Kryton switches are? Have you ever heard of Richard Smith? Jericho missiles? Heavy water?

I dont know the answers to any of the questions that ive just asked you but the Boss does. He's the real genius here. He was actually on the manhattan project at the tender age of 3.

[Bold Brooklynite]

I dont know the answers to any of the questions that ive just asked you but the Boss does. He's the real genius here. He was actually on the manhattan project at the tender age of 3.
You know darn well ... that Dixie was already a 6YO when Dr. Fermi brought him along as an advisor.

You lose whatever little credibility you have left when you expect people to believe that a 3YO could be a nuclear weapons advisor.

[Assttodixie]

You know darn well ... that Dixie was already a 6YO when Dr. Fermi brought him along as an advisor.

You lose whatever little credibility you have left when you expect people to believe that a 3YO could be a nuclear weapons advisor.

There goes my memory again! Boss is going to kill me. Yes, he was 6 and in between studying pedigrees and developing the training methods used by BA Jones, Dixie had a HUGE hand in developing the bomb.

[Rupert Pupkin]

First of all Mr. pumpkin, im not the brilliant one, Dixie is. The only brilliance ive shown is going to work for such a brilliant man. I have the best job in the world. Dixie is not only a world class horse trainer, poker player and socialite-he is now the behind the scenes defense minister/war planner/foreign policy maker in Israel.

Now, to answer your question (and i hope the boss doesnt mind me speaking out of school. this is really classified stuff here), it is common knowledge where Israel got its Nuclear technology. If it is news to you, then this probably wont be a very fruitful exchange for me but I'll humor you anyway. French Scientists working on the Manhattan project were "allowed" to give the technology to Israel. Furthermore, one Israeli scientist actually worked in Los Alamos. That is the basis for the entire program.

And it goes on through the years. Before US technology for missile delivery, Israel borrowed US technology to deliver the bomb via plane. Do you know what Kryton switches are? Have you ever heard of Richard Smith? Jericho missiles? Heavy water?

I dont know the answers to any of the questions that ive just asked you but the Boss does. He's the real genius here. He was actually on the manhattan project at the tender age of 3.
I've read the same pieces that you have. I would hardly say that Israel got their nuclear technology from the US. Israel has some of the best scientists in the world. As you said, one of them even did some work at Los Alamos.

[boldruler]

Sorry, kid ... it's the SAME war ...

... and Israel is on OUR side.

It's very interesting that you consider human beings to be expendable if they're religious. You didn't really mean to say that ... did you?

And as far as good horse racing goes ... all thoroughbreds descend from Middle Eastern horses ... even Bold Ruler ... whose father ... by the way ... was bred by the Aga Khan.

Same war? What world do you live in? Last I checked the US was in a real war where tens of thousands of troops have died and been injured. This little conflict in Israel/Lebanon is like two little annoying kids fighting. The problem is that it is my tax dollar paying for it. These crazy backwards religious groups and countries have been fighting for thousands of years.

Israel in not on OUR side. Israel is on Israel's side. They are a strategic liability to the United States. All we need from the Middle East is oil and they have none. I think they should defend themselves and do whatever they have to do, but not with my tax dollar. If they weren't such wimps they would have dealt with this problem long ago with their own money. There are plenty of americans that are poor and plenty of other needs our country has than giving billions to all of these backwards Middle Eastern countries, of which Israel is one. All these countries in the Middle East live in the Stone Age. No rational human being can believe the religious garbage that comes out of orthodox religious people, which are the types that run these countries. How can you take a country seriously that shuts down one day a week? The symbol of their country is a religious symbol. No country that wants to be taken seriously can have that. The only thing Israel has going for it is that it is not nearly as backwards as the religious nutjobs that surround it.

I think people like you need to ask yourself if you first allegiance is to America or another country. This dual citizenship garbage is nonsense.

[SentToStud]

You hopelesly ignorant PIG.

The majority of Isreal is secular. I myself am an aetheist who beileves "reliigon is the opium of the people". Less than 10 per cent of this country is orthodox (they do make a lot of noise unfortunately).

I would personally like to grab you my the throat and shove your tax dollars up your a$$ before I tore out your guts.

I have dual citizenship and welcome the chance to meet you in person.

lol.

Dirty words at 20 paces.

I'll fight you and one foot.

I'll fight you with one paw tied behind my back.

I'll fight you with one eye closed.

Why, I oughta....

What a clown.

as salaam alaykium

[boldruler]

You hopelesly ignorant PIG.

The majority of Isreal is secular. I myself am an aetheist who beileves "reliigon is the opium of the people". Less than 10 per cent of this country is orthodox (they do make a lot of noise unfortunately).

I would personally like to grab you my the throat and shove your tax dollars up your a$$ before I tore out your guts.

I have dual citizenship and welcome the chance to meet you in person.


You are a coward, just like your countrymen in Israel. I am a deist, just like the people that founded "my country", although I really don't consider it your country considering you loyalties seem to be mixed. Israel beats up on poor people with my tax dollar and then they are too big of cowards to go and fight with the terrorists face to face so they bomb innocent people. That is the act of cowards.

I much rather have my tax dollar going to help people that are victims of somthing like Hurricane Katrina than to some countries that live in the Stone Age.

If less than 10% of "your country" is orthodox why do they have a star of david on your flag?

Here is Pat Buchanans piece on your site Townhall.com. THE LAST SENTENCE SUMS IT UP FOR ME. No, Kenny boy, we are not "all Israelis." "Some of us still think of ourselves as Americans, first, last, and always . And, no, Mr. Kristol, this is not "our war." It's your war."


http://www.townhall.com/columnists/PatrickJBuchanan/2006/07/21/no,_this_is_not_our_war

Today, we are all Israelis!" brayed Ken Mehlman of the Republican National Committee to a gathering of Christians United for Israel.

One wonders if these Christians care about what is happening to our Christian brethren in Lebanon and Gaza, who have had all power cut off by Israeli air strikes, an outlawed form of collective punishment, that has left them with no sanitation, rotting food, impure water and days without light or electricity in the horrible heat of July.

When summer power outages occur in America, it means a rising rate of death among our sick and elderly, and women and infants. One can only imagine what a hell it must be today in Gaza City and Beirut.

But all this carnage and destruction has only piqued the blood lust of the hairy-chested warriors at The Weekly Standard. In a signed editorial, "It's Our War," William Kristol calls for America to play her rightful role in this war by "countering this act of aggression by Iran with a military strike against Iranian nuclear facilities. Why wait?"

"Why wait?" Well, one reason is that the United States has not been attacked. A second is a small thing called the Constitution. Where does George W. Bush get the authority to launch a war on Iran? When did Congress declare war or authorize a war on Iran?

Answer: It never did. But these neoconservatives care no more about the Constitution than they cared about the truth when they lied into war in Iraq.

"Why wait?" How about thinking of the fate of those 25,000 Americans in Lebanon if we launch an unprovoked war on Iran. How many would wind up dead or hostages of Hezbollah, if Iran gave the order to retaliate for the slaughter of their citizens by U.S. bombs? What would happen to the 130,000 U.S. troops in Iraq, if Shi'ites and Iranian "volunteers" joined forces to exact revenge on our soldiers?

What about America? Richard Armitage, who did four tours in Nam and knows a bit about war, says that, in its ability to attack Western targets, al Qaeda is the B team, Hezbollah the A Team. If Bush bombs Iran, what prevents Hezbollah from launching retaliatory attacks inside the United States? None of this is written in defense of Hamas, Hezbollah or Iran.

But none of them has attacked our country, nor has Syria, whom Bush I made an ally in the Gulf War, and to whom the most decorated soldier in Israeli history, Ehud Barak, offered 99 percent of the Golan Heights. If Nixon, Bush I and Clinton could deal with Hafez al-Assad, a tougher customer than son Bashar, what is the matter with George W. Bush?

The last superpower is impotent in this war because we have allowed Israel to dictate to whom we may and may not talk. Thus, Bush winds up cussing in frustration in St. Petersburg that somebody should tell the Syrians to stop it. Why not pick up the phone, Mr. President?

What is Kristol's moral and legal ground for a war on Iran? It is the "Iranian act of aggression" against Israel, and that Iran is on the road to nuclear weapons, and we can't have that.

But there is no evidence Iran has any tighter control over Hezbollah than we have over Israel, whose response to the capture of two soldiers had all the spontaneity of the Schlieffen Plan. And, again, Hezbollah attacked Israel, not us. And there is no solid proof Iran is in violation of the nuclear non-proliferation treaty, which it has signed, but Israel refuses to sign.

If Iran's nuclear program justifies war, why cannot the neocons make that case in the constitutional way, instead of prodding Bush to launch a Pearl Harbor attack? Do they fear they have no credibility left after pushing Bush into this bloody quagmire in Iraq that has cost almost 2,600 dead and 18,000 wounded Americans?

No, Kenny boy, we are not "all Israelis." Some of us still think of ourselves as Americans, first, last, and always . And, no, Mr. Kristol, this is not "our war." It's your war.

[dalakhani]

You are a coward, just like your countrymen in Israel. I am a deist, just like the people that founded "my country", although I really don't consider it your country considering you loyalties seem to be mixed. Israel beats up on poor people with my tax dollar and then they are too big of cowards to go and fight with the terrorists face to face so they bomb innocent people. That is the act of cowards.

I much rather have my tax dollar going to help people that are victims of somthing like Hurricane Katrina than to some countries that live in the Stone Age.

If less than 10% of "your country" is orthodox why do they have a star of david on your flag?

Here is Pat Buchanans piece on your site Townhall.com. THE LAST SENTENCE SUMS IT UP FOR ME. No, Kenny boy, we are not "all Israelis." "Some of us still think of ourselves as Americans, first, last, and always . And, no, Mr. Kristol, this is not "our war." It's your war."


http://www.townhall.com/columnists/PatrickJBuchanan/2006/07/21/no,_this_is_not_our_war

Today, we are all Israelis!" brayed Ken Mehlman of the Republican National Committee to a gathering of Christians United for Israel.

One wonders if these Christians care about what is happening to our Christian brethren in Lebanon and Gaza, who have had all power cut off by Israeli air strikes, an outlawed form of collective punishment, that has left them with no sanitation, rotting food, impure water and days without light or electricity in the horrible heat of July.

When summer power outages occur in America, it means a rising rate of death among our sick and elderly, and women and infants. One can only imagine what a hell it must be today in Gaza City and Beirut.

But all this carnage and destruction has only piqued the blood lust of the hairy-chested warriors at The Weekly Standard. In a signed editorial, "It's Our War," William Kristol calls for America to play her rightful role in this war by "countering this act of aggression by Iran with a military strike against Iranian nuclear facilities. Why wait?"

"Why wait?" Well, one reason is that the United States has not been attacked. A second is a small thing called the Constitution. Where does George W. Bush get the authority to launch a war on Iran? When did Congress declare war or authorize a war on Iran?

Answer: It never did. But these neoconservatives care no more about the Constitution than they cared about the truth when they lied into war in Iraq.

"Why wait?" How about thinking of the fate of those 25,000 Americans in Lebanon if we launch an unprovoked war on Iran. How many would wind up dead or hostages of Hezbollah, if Iran gave the order to retaliate for the slaughter of their citizens by U.S. bombs? What would happen to the 130,000 U.S. troops in Iraq, if Shi'ites and Iranian "volunteers" joined forces to exact revenge on our soldiers?

What about America? Richard Armitage, who did four tours in Nam and knows a bit about war, says that, in its ability to attack Western targets, al Qaeda is the B team, Hezbollah the A Team. If Bush bombs Iran, what prevents Hezbollah from launching retaliatory attacks inside the United States? None of this is written in defense of Hamas, Hezbollah or Iran.

But none of them has attacked our country, nor has Syria, whom Bush I made an ally in the Gulf War, and to whom the most decorated soldier in Israeli history, Ehud Barak, offered 99 percent of the Golan Heights. If Nixon, Bush I and Clinton could deal with Hafez al-Assad, a tougher customer than son Bashar, what is the matter with George W. Bush?

The last superpower is impotent in this war because we have allowed Israel to dictate to whom we may and may not talk. Thus, Bush winds up cussing in frustration in St. Petersburg that somebody should tell the Syrians to stop it. Why not pick up the phone, Mr. President?

What is Kristol's moral and legal ground for a war on Iran? It is the "Iranian act of aggression" against Israel, and that Iran is on the road to nuclear weapons, and we can't have that.

But there is no evidence Iran has any tighter control over Hezbollah than we have over Israel, whose response to the capture of two soldiers had all the spontaneity of the Schlieffen Plan. And, again, Hezbollah attacked Israel, not us. And there is no solid proof Iran is in violation of the nuclear non-proliferation treaty, which it has signed, but Israel refuses to sign.

If Iran's nuclear program justifies war, why cannot the neocons make that case in the constitutional way, instead of prodding Bush to launch a Pearl Harbor attack? Do they fear they have no credibility left after pushing Bush into this bloody quagmire in Iraq that has cost almost 2,600 dead and 18,000 wounded Americans?

No, Kenny boy, we are not "all Israelis." Some of us still think of ourselves as Americans, first, last, and always . And, no, Mr. Kristol, this is not "our war." It's your war.

That is the best piece of writing i have seen on here. Thank you very much for a well thought out, well written piece of work.

[dalakhani]

You hopelesly ignorant PIG.

The majority of Isreal is secular. I myself am an aetheist who beileves "reliigon is the opium of the people". Less than 10 per cent of this country is orthodox (they do make a lot of noise unfortunately).

I would personally like to grab you my the throat and shove your tax dollars up your a$$ before I tore out your guts.

I have dual citizenship and welcome the chance to meet you in person.

do you have any idea how incredibly dumb you look? First of all, the quote goes "Religion is the opiate of the masses" you uneducated fool. Secondly, its interesting that such a devout right winger would steal a quote from Karl Marx. LOL

Just brilliant.

[Rupert Pupkin]

[QUOTE=boldruler]You are a coward, just like your countrymen in Israel. I am a deist, just like the people that founded "my country", although I really don't consider it your country considering you loyalties seem to be mixed. Israel beats up on poor people with my tax dollar and then they are too big of cowards to go and fight with the terrorists face to face so they bomb innocent people. That is the act of cowards."

I've heard Israel called a lot of things, but cowards is a new one. I've never heard that one before. Israelis are considered the bravest fighters in the world. Look at all the wars they have endured over the last 50 years. They have been attacked time and time again, sometimes by many of the Arab countries all at once. They are far from cowards. They are as brave as they come.
As to your contention that they should fight the terrorists face to face, what do you think they are doing right now? Thousands of Israelis troops have crossed into Lebanon to fight the terrorists face to face. The cowards are the terrorists who will shoot at you and then go hide in a crowded neighborhood which basically ensures that innocent civilians will get killed. The United States and Israel both go out of their way to avoid civilian casualties. Both countries do everything in their power to minimize civilian casualties.

[dalakhani]

[QUOTE=boldruler]You are a coward, just like your countrymen in Israel. I am a deist, just like the people that founded "my country", although I really don't consider it your country considering you loyalties seem to be mixed. Israel beats up on poor people with my tax dollar and then they are too big of cowards to go and fight with the terrorists face to face so they bomb innocent people. That is the act of cowards."

I've heard Israel called a lot of things, but cowards is a new one. I've never heard that one before. Israelis are considered the bravest fighters in the world. Look at all the wars they have endured over the last 50 years. They have been attacked time and time again, sometimes by many of the Arab countries all at once. They are far from cowards. They are as brave as they come.
As to your contention that they should fight the terrorists face to face, what do you think they are doing right now? Thousands of Israelis troops have crossed into Lebanon to fight the terrorists face to face. The cowards are the terrorists who will shoot at you and then go hide in a crowded neighborhood which basically ensures that innocent civilians will get killed. The United States and Israel both go out of their way to avoid civilian casualties. Both countries do everything in their power to minimize civilian casualties.

This is funnier than your defense of LITF. You follow propaganda and Fox news and you will be left with this version of "the truth". Ask that bus load of fleeing refugees that got killed by an Israeli (US) missile about "minimizing civillian casualties". Ask the North Vietnamese. Ask the Iraquis.

[boldruler]

[QUOTE=boldruler]You are a coward, just like your countrymen in Israel. I am a deist, just like the people that founded "my country", although I really don't consider it your country considering you loyalties seem to be mixed. Israel beats up on poor people with my tax dollar and then they are too big of cowards to go and fight with the terrorists face to face so they bomb innocent people. That is the act of cowards."

I've heard Israel called a lot of things, but cowards is a new one. I've never heard that one before. Israelis are considered the bravest fighters in the world. Look at all the wars they have endured over the last 50 years. They have been attacked time and time again, sometimes by many of the Arab countries all at once. They are far from cowards. They are as brave as they come.
As to your contention that they should fight the terrorists face to face, what do you think they are doing right now? Thousands of Israelis troops have crossed into Lebanon to fight the terrorists face to face. The cowards are the terrorists who will shoot at you and then go hide in a crowded neighborhood which basically ensures that innocent civilians will get killed. The United States and Israel both go out of their way to avoid civilian casualties. Both countries do everything in their power to minimize civilian casualties.

Israelis are considered the bravest fighters in the world? By who, Israelis? The US military would carve up them in two seconds. Half of their military is made up of 18yr old girls. :eek: They are like a single A baseball team and the US Military is the best in big leagues. Please stop comparing the US and Israel. It is a complete insult to the US Military. Our men and women are all over the world protecting people, taking care of tsunami victims, Katrina victims, etc. They go into foreign countries and risk their lives so others can have a better life. The Israeli military is a little military designed to protect itself and nothing else. If it wasn't for my tax dollar they wouldn't even have a military. Israel has every right to protect itself, just do it with their own money.

[Rupert Pupkin]

do you have any idea how incredibly dumb you look? First of all, the quote goes "Religion is the opiate of the masses" you uneducated fool. Secondly, its interesting that such a devout right winger would steal a quote from Karl Marx. LOL

Just brilliant.
That is pretty ironic. He's quoting Karl Marx and you're quoting a right-winger like Pat Buchanan.

[Bold Brooklynite]

Time and space won't allow a full response to the long-winded ignorance posted here.

But ... if any American thinks he's exempt from being murdered by Islamic terrorists ... just because he isn't Jewish ... or isn't religious ... or is politically correct ... or is a supporter of hatemonger Pat Buchanan ...

... he'd better think again. Given unlimited power ... the terrorists would kill us all ... no exceptions. The true fools ... are the ones who believe otherwise.

As the truism goes ... "You're either with us ... or you're with the terrorists" ... and Israel is most definitely with us.

.................................................. ............

And by the way ... the Star Of David is not a religious symbol ... because ... both within and outside the Jewish community ... it only achieved status in the last two hundred years. Before that it was chiefly associated with magic ... or with the insignia of individual families or communities. But despite its very equivocal history ... Jews were attracted to its design ... and have sought to ascribe it more significance. That's what resulted in its being adopted on the Israeli flag ... not any religious significance.

[Rupert Pupkin]

[QUOTE=Rupert Pupkin]

This is funnier than your defense of LITF. You follow propaganda and Fox news and you will be left with this version of "the truth". Ask that bus load of fleeing refugees that got killed by an Israeli (US) missile about "minimizing civillian casualties". Ask the North Vietnamese. Ask the Iraquis.
The US has done everything in their power to avoid killing civilians in Iraq. I know that plenty of civilians got killed any way. That is an unfortunate consequence of war.
What's funny though is how you would knock America for killing civilians unintentionally, but you do not knock these terrorists who intentionally blow up a marketplace in Iraq intentionally killing 50 Iraqi civilians. I guess you think that when terrorists blow up a market place in Iraq that they are actually not terrorists but "freedom-fighters".

[Rupert Pupkin]

[QUOTE=Bold Brooklynite]Time and space won't allow a full response to the long-winded ignorance posted here.

But ... if any American thinks he's exempt from being murdered by Islamic terrorists ... just because he isn't Jewish ... or isn't religious ... or is politically correct ... or is a supporter of hatemonger Pat Buchanan ...

... he'd better think again. Given unlimited power ... the terrorists would kill us all ... no exceptions. The true fools ... are the ones who believe otherwise.

As the truism goes ... "You're either with us ... or you're with the terrorists" ... and Israel is most definitely with us."

Yes, you are 100% correct. I think the proof of that is 9/11. But it's really even worse than that. Not only would they kill all Americans if they could, they would even kill other Muslims if these other Muslims had slightly different beliefs. Look at Iraq right now. All these terrorists do is bomb innocent civilians in restaurants and market places. They're just killing other Muslims.

[Bold Brooklynite]

The US has done everything in their power to avoid killing civilians in Iraq. I know that plenty of civilians got killed any way. That is an unfortunate consequence of war.

What's funny though is how you would knock America for killing civilians unintentionally, but you do not knock these terrorists who intentionally blow up a marketplace in Iraq intentinally killing 50 Iraqi civilians. I guess you think that when terrorists blow up a market place in Iraq that they are actually not terrorists but "freedom-fighters".
Yeah, Rupe ... I addressed this "freedom-fighter" nonsense on another thread some time ago.

I completely silenced everyone when I pointed out that a "freedom-fighter" is someone who fights to make people free ... not to subjugate them and/or kill them if they refuse to be subjugated.

And as you noted ... the self-same "freedom fighters" do not hesitate at all to murder their co-religionists and fellow countrymen who disagree with their political aims and tactics.

I also pointed out that the true freedom-fighters in the past 65 years ... have been the members of the American armed forces ... who have liberated billions of people in scores of countries throughout the world from murderous tyrants ... and never once tried to conquer or subjugate anyone.

But there's no shaming these people ... they're so filled with hatred that they can feel no shame.

[boldruler]

Time and space won't allow a full response to the long-winded ignorance posted here.

But ... if any American thinks he's exempt from being murdered by Islamic terrorists ... just because he isn't Jewish ... or isn't religious ... or is politically correct ... or is a supporter of hatemonger Pat Buchanan ...

... he'd better think again. Given unlimited power ... the terrorists would kill us all ... no exceptions. The true fools ... are the ones who believe otherwise.

As the truism goes ... "You're either with us ... or you're with the terrorists" ... and Israel is most definitely with us.

.................................................. ............

And by the way ... the Star Of David is not a religious symbol ... because ... both within and outside the Jewish community ... it only achieved status in the last two hundred years. Before that it was chiefly associated with magic ... or with the insignia of individual families or communities. But despite its very equivocal history ... Jews were attracted to its design ... and have sought to ascribe it more significance. That's what resulted in its being adopted on the Israeli flag ... not any religious significance.

In america we respect all religions, including Islam. You seem to differentiate between terrorists and Islamic terrorists, which illustrates your real thoughts. I have no problem with Israel, but they are an insignificant little country and they are like a leech that has attached itself to the US for protection. Fight your own battles and do it with your own money. As for us all being worried about being attacked by terrorists, well we would probably be safer if we put some distance between the US and Israel. It isn't making me any safer by siding with any of these insignificant little Stone Age countries like Israel. No oil, no need for us to be nice. That simple.

[Bold Brooklynite]

You seem to differentiate between terrorists and Islamic terrorists, which illustrates your real thoughts.
No I don't. This thread is about Islamic terrorists.

If you wish to talk about another type of terrorist ... then start another thread ... and we can have that discussion there.

[Bold Brooklynite]

I have no problem with Israel, but they are an insignificant little country.
No matter the size of a country ... its people are never insignifcant.

All men are endowed with unalienable rights ... including those from small countries.

[boldruler]

[QUOTE=dalakhani]
The US has done everything in their power to avoid killing civilians in Iraq. I know that plenty of civilians got killed any way. That is an unfortunate consequence of war.
What's funny though is how you would knock America for killing civilians unintentionally, but you do not knock these terrorists who intentionally blow up a marketplace in Iraq intentionally killing 50 Iraqi civilians. I guess you think that when terrorists blow up a market place in Iraq that they are actually not terrorists but "freedom-fighters".


The US military is great. The greatest people on earth. Our leadership is weak though in the White House. They are incompetent and didn't listen to the military leaders when planning a war. Notice how almost all of these neocons never served a day in the military. Dick Cheney and Wolfowitz and the attorney for the traitor Marc Rich, Scooter Libby, all found a way to get out of fighting. It isn't the US governments role to play George Washington and liberate countries, its role should be to play France (in the revolutionary war) and help countries liberate themselves. The problem is companies like Halliburton wouldn't be making as much cash though if that was the case.

[Bold Brooklynite]

... they are like a leech that has attached itself to the US for protection. Fight your own battles and do it with your own money.
You just make yourself look foolish when you say that Israel should fight its own battles.

In fact they have ... this "insignificant" country of 6 million people ... has been butt-whipping countries with populations of hundreds of millions for the past 60 years.

[boldruler]

No matter the size of z country ... its people are never insignifcant.

All men are endowed with unalienable rights ... including those from small countries.

Except the people in Lebanon or the Palestinians. Right?

Get a reality check, Israel is a little league team and countries like the US and China are the big leagues.

For the 20th time, protect yourself, just do it with your own money. You seem to have no response to this.

[SentToStud]

You just make yourself look foolish when you say that Israel should fight its own battles.

In fact they have ... this "insignificant" country of 6 million people ... has been butt-whipping countries with populations of hundreds of millions for the past 60 years.

name just one.

[boldruler]

You just make yourself look foolish when you say that Israel should fight its own battles.

In fact they have ... this "insignificant" country of 6 million people ... has been butt-whipping countries with populations of hundreds of millions for the past 60 years.


With the money they get from US tax payers. Why is some poor guy in america funding their wars? It is an insignificant country. Get it through your head. There is nothing there. No oil. Nothing. Why should the US care? We don't care about much larger countries in Africa or South America, do we.

[Bold Brooklynite]

As for us all being worried about being attacked by terrorists, well we would probably be safer if we put some distance between the US and Israel. It isn't making me any safer by siding with any of these insignificant little Stone Age countries like Israel. No oil, no need for us to be nice. That simple.
That is the type of utterly delusional thinking I was referring to in an earlier post. If you really think that the murders would stop if Israel were annihilated ... then you're really beyond hope.

And is "oil" your criterion for helping allies? France, Belgium, and China ... among many others ... had no oil back in the early 1940's ... so ... was it a mistake to liberate them?

And referring to Israel as "Stone Age" is beyond ignorant ... Israel is one of the most modern and technologically advanced nations on the face of the earth.

You need to re-think ... or get some professional treatment. Maybe a Jewish psychiatrist can help you.

[dalakhani]

With the money they get from US tax payers. Why is some poor guy in america funding their wars? It is an insignificant country. Get it through your head. There is nothing there. No oil. Nothing. Why should the US care? We don't care about much larger countries in Africa or South America, do we.

Not to mention technology. And how about what they got from the French?

Why do we send more money to Israel than any other country? Can someone explain that without a smokescreen?

[dalakhani]

That is the type of utterly delusional thinking I was referring to in an earlier post. If you really think that the murders would stop if Israel were annihilated ... then you're really beyond hope.

And is "oil" your criterion for helping allies? France, Belgium, and China ... among many others ... had no oil back in the early 1940's ... so ... was it a mistake to liberate them?

And referring to Israel as "Stone Age" is beyond ignorant ... Israel is one of the most modern and technologically advanced nations on the face of the earth.

You need to re-think ... or get some professional treatment. Maybe a Jewish psychiatrist can help you.

With US money they are so advanced. WE could do the same thing anywhere and not have all the problems with the Arab states and maybe get a break on some oil.

Our problems with the terrorists go down by at least 90% if we stop this ridiculously slanted policy toward Israel.

why do we pay so much to them anyway?

[SentToStud]

That is the type of utterly delusional thinking I was referring to in an earlier post. If you really think that the murders would stop if Israel were annihilated ... then you're really beyond hope.

And is "oil" your criterion for helping allies? France, Belgium, and China ... among many others ... had no oil back in the early 1940's ... so ... was it a mistake to liberate them?

And referring to Israel as "Stone Age" is beyond ignorant ... Israel is one of the most modern and technologically advanced nations on the face of the earth.

You need to re-think ... or get some professional treatment. Maybe a Jewish psychiatrist can help you.

Maybe getting laid by a nice Jewish girl would help YOU!!

[dalakhani]

Maybe getting laid by a nice Jewish girl would help YOU!!

i dont think he could get it up unless he went to Limbaugh's viagra pusher.

[boldruler]

That is the type of utterly delusional thinking I was referring to in an earlier post. If you really think that the murders would stop if Israel were annihilated ... then you're really beyond hope.

And is "oil" your criterion for helping allies? France, Belgium, and China ... among many others ... had no oil back in the early 1940's ... so ... was it a mistake to liberate them?

And referring to Israel as "Stone Age" is beyond ignorant ... Israel is one of the most modern and technologically advanced nations on the face of the earth.

You need to re-think ... or get some professional treatment. Maybe a Jewish psychiatrist can help you.

China, France, Belgium, etc, were countries that were part of a world war started by someone else. The US started the war in Iraq. ARE YOU REALLY THAT STUPID?

I could care less if Israel is there or not. How does it affect my country? It is their job to use their own money and protect themselves. Explain to me why my tax dollar is funding the Israeli military? I am still waiting for this.

Any country that exists on a piece of land because they say God gave it to them, is living in the Stone Age. Are we going to give the land back to the American Indian? No, the world is the way it is because that is how it is. This God stuff, and chosen people stuff, which the Jews once claimed, and it now seems christians want to consider themselves, is dangerous. It is the same type of thinking that these "Islamic terrorists" you like to refer to have.

[timmgirvan]

name just one.
Yom Kippur War...Bingo!

[Bold Brooklynite]

Not to mention technology. And how about what they got from the French?

Why do we send more money to Israel than any other country? Can someone explain that without a smokescreen?
[Raising hand and waving it frantically] Me ... me ... me ... me !!!!

We send Israel money to defend itself ... and they do defend themselves ... without any help from the U.S. beyond the monetary ...

... we send Israel money to defend itself because Israel is a small, free democratic country ... which has been under attack by much larger tyrannical dictatorships.

You see ... that's the American Way ... we don't like to see free people attacked by tyrants ... we help them fight back. And if they can't fight back ... we do the job for them ... as we did in WWI ... WWII ... Korea ... Vietnam ... Grenada ... Kuwait.

Fortunately ... the 6 million Israelis are quite capable of kicking butt against hundreds of millions of their enemies ... so we've never had to do the fighting for them.

There ... that's the answer you were looking for.

[boldruler]

Maybe getting laid by a nice Jewish girl would help YOU!!

Jewish girls are great as long as they aren't religious fanatics. The jewish girl I dated in college wanted me to tell her parents how my great grandfather was jewish just so they were ok with me. That is insanity. I just wanted to get laid and they were concerned about who my great grandfather was. Crazy religious people.

[SentToStud]

i dont think he could get it up unless he went to Limbaugh's viagra pusher.

This guy is just a far right zionist wing-nut.

Says he's got degrees up his a ss, but really can't put together anything constructive other than to support killing innocent Arabs. ....
"Bomb Damascus!" Bomb Tehran!" He just doesn't get it. In the meantime he supports the oppression by Israel of the impoverished Palestinians and suggests they vacate and go back to Africa.

Sixty years ago, the Israelis were roaming Europe and Asia. If they don't work to find a way to live in peace with the Palestinians, theyll be marching again sometime during the next 60 years.

I'm so tired of this a sshole saying the rest of the world should stop picking on, as he calls it, "Teeny tiny Israel." Yeah, right the same teeny tiny Israel with the world's 4th largest military paid for by yours truly.

Israel has f'ed up so bad in Lebanon time after time.

The worst thing Israel does is they DO NEGOTIATE WITH TERRORISTS. Hell, they traded 400 Arab prisoners to get back Elhanan. Yeah, great move there. Maybe they can trade 1,000 for one this time and set the world back another 20 years.

[boldruler]

[Raising hand and waving it frantically] Me ... me ... me ... me !!!!

We send Israel money to defend itself ... and they do defend themselves ... without any help from the U.S. beyond the monetary ...

... we send Israel money to defend itself because Israel is a small, free democratic country ... which has been under attack by much larger tyrannical dictatorships.

You see ... that's the American Way ... we don't like to see free people attacked by tyrants ... we help them fight back. And if they can't fight back ... we do the job for them ... as we did in WWI ... WWII ... Korea ... Vietnam ... Grenada ... Kuwait.

Fortunately ... the 6 million Israelis are quite capable of kicking butt against hundreds of millions of their enemies ... so we've never had to do the fighting for them.

There ... that's the answer you were looking for.

So Israel doesn't have their own money? It didn't look like Ariel Sharon was missing too many meals. Stop with the american way nonsense. It sounds like your first loyalty isn't even to america. Your right we never had to fight for them, people like my grandfather just had to go over and save them from the Nazis. Now groups like AIPAC are lobbying for the US to take on Iran. Maybe groups like AIPAC should realize in america the first priority is america.

If Israel was smart they would move. Find somewhere else to live. Any rational person can see technology will eventually allow some extremists to blow up their little country. It is inevitable.

[dalakhani]

[Raising hand and waving it frantically] Me ... me ... me ... me !!!!

We send Israel money to defend itself ... and they do defend themselves ... without any help from the U.S. beyond the monetary ...

... we send Israel money to defend itself because Israel is a small, free democratic country ... which has been under attack by much larger tyrannical dictatorships.

You see ... that's the American Way ... we don't like to see free people attacked by tyrants ... we help them fight back. And if they can't fight back ... we do the job for them ... as we did in WWI ... WWII ... Korea ... Vietnam ... Grenada ... Kuwait.

Fortunately ... the 6 million Israelis are quite capable of kicking butt against hundreds of millions of their enemies ... so we've never had to do the fighting for them.

There ... that's the answer you were looking for.

Really? I can think of a number of other countries that couldnt find their way against worse tyrannies and bullies than the ones that Israel faces.

Why didnt we help the people of Cambodia against Pol Pot or there oppressive neighbors? All we did was bomb them.

Why didnt we help all of those eastern bloc countries in the fifties when all they had were rocks?

Why dont we help the palestinians whose land is being constantly encroached upon by...Israeli settlers????LOL

Why dont we help some of the neighbors to china?

Why is all of this money pouring into Israel?

Question still unanswered.

[timmgirvan]

We've paid billions to the Arabs, and we supplied them with arms and aircraft!

[Bold Brooklynite]

China, France, Belgium, etc, were countries that were part of a world war started by someone else. The US started the war in Iraq. ARE YOU REALLY THAT STUPID?

Are you intentionally mixing apples with oranges as a smokescren ... or don't you realize just how dumb your post is?

China, France, and Belgium were attacked by tyrants. And we went to their aid ... not just with money ... but with troops. So too has Israel been attacked ... again and again I might add ... but in their case we have just sent money and/or supplies. So where do you see a categorical difference in our response to both situations?

And what does the liberation of Iraq ... from a brutal, vicious tyrant ... have to do with this thread? If you want to discuss that ... please start another thread.

[boldruler]

We've paid billions to the Arabs, and we supplied them with arms and aircraft!

THEY HAVE OIL and it stays cheap in return . Is that too difficult for you to figure out. We get something in return. WHAT DO WE GET FROM GIVING MONEY TO ISRAEL? Just headaches. :eek:

[SentToStud]

We've paid billions to the Arabs, and we supplied them with arms and aircraft!

But we only send the Palestinians sling-shots!

[Bold Brooklynite]

So Israel doesn't have their own money?
So ... France, Belgium, and China didn't have their own money?

[SentToStud]

So ... France, Belgium, and China didn't have their own money?

Stay on topic little Johnny! Stay on topic!

[boldruler]

Are you intentionally mixing apples with oranges as a smokescren ... or don't you realize just how dumb your post is?

China, France, and Belgium were attacked by tyrants. And we went to their aid ... not just with money ... but with troops. So too has Israel been attacked ... again and again I might add ... but in their case we have just sent money and/or supplies. So where do you see a categorical difference in our response to both situations?

And what does the liberation of Iraq ... from a brutal, vicious tyrant ... have to do with this thread? If you want to discuss that ... please start another thread.

We aided countries because it benefitted us. Israel should defend itself, just not with my money. Why should a poor/middle class person in america give money to Israel? So a rich person in Israel doesn't have to pay as much in taxes? The US gets nothing for its aid.

[Bold Brooklynite]

If Israel was smart they would move. Find somewhere else to live. Any rational person can see technology will eventually allow some extremists to blow up their little country. It is inevitable.
Yeah ... the French, Belgians, and Chinese should have just moved too.

And Israel's annihilation is about as ineveitable as the world being taken over by communism. Do you remember that little canard ... about how "inevitable" communism was?

You're being delusional again. Communism wasn't inevitable ... and neither is Israel's annihilation.

[timmgirvan]

But we only send the Palestinians sling-shots!
S2S: we've talked of this before..All that cash doesn't trickle down to the Palestinian people....Arafat and cohorts took care of that. As for Israel, its' riches lay underground in the form of trillions of $$$$ in minerals

[boldruler]

Stay on topic little Johnny! Stay on topic!

It is impossible to stay on topic when you are completely wrong. Giving aid to Israel not only hurts the US taxpayer but also is a strategic liability. The US would have tons more leverage in the world if it just let Israel sink or swim by itself.

When Israel finds oil then we can talk. You would think land given to them by God would have included some oil. :eek:

[boldruler]

S2S: we've talked of this before..All that cash doesn't trickle down to the Palestinian people....Arafat and cohorts took care of that. As for Israel, its' riches lay underground in the form of trillions of $$$$ in minerals


Great, well get the dam minerals and stay out of my paycheck. You are delusional about the trillion dollars in minerals anyway. That is funny. I guess nobody got around to getting them. LOL. The US shouldn't give aid to the Palestinians either unless they discover oil.

[SentToStud]

S2S: we've talked of this before..All that cash doesn't trickle down to the Palestinian people....Arafat and cohorts took care of that. As for Israel, its' riches lay underground in the form of trillions of $$$$ in minerals

Israeli minerals ... yes.... one of my current favorites is First Israel Fund (ISL). PAid a hefty 10% dividend a few months back.

[Bold Brooklynite]

Really? I can think of a number of other countries that couldnt find their way against worse tyrannies and bullies than the ones that Israel faces.

Why didnt we help the people of Cambodia against Pol Pot or there oppressive neighbors? All we did was bomb them.

Why didnt we help all of those eastern bloc countries in the fifties when all they had were rocks?

Why dont we help the palestinians whose land is being constantly encroached upon by...Israeli settlers????LOL

Why dont we help some of the neighbors to china?

Why is all of this money pouring into Israel?

Question still unanswered.

The question was answered ... you just didn't like the answer.

And maybe you missed it ... but the countries of eastern Europe have all been liberated ... with enormous help from us ... they're all free democracies now ... and your beloved Soviet Union is in the garbage can.

Too bad our efforts on behalf of Cambodia weren't successful at first. Your commie buddies slaughtered innocent people by the millions. But our continued efforts have finally managed to unshackle Cambodia ... and it's well on its way to freedom.

I don't know whom you're referring to as "neighbors to China." We've certainly helped South Korea to be a free, democratic, prosperous country ... and hopefully we'll take care of North Korea some day. Mongolia is also a free democracy. Poor Tibet though has been under the communist boot for over fifty years. Short of nuking Peking ... I don't know what we can do to help them in their remote mountainous country.

And finally ... (whew!) ... the Palestinian's "land" is in Arabia ... a very large and wealthy country. Why don't they "move" there?

Ooops ... I forgot ... the Saud family controls the Arab homeland and they're keeping all its wealth for themselves ... and keeping their Palestinian "brothers" out at the point of a bayonet.

[boldruler]

The question was answered ... you just didn't like the answer.

And maybe you missed it ... but the countries of eastern Europe have all been liberated ... with enormous help from us ... they're all free democracies now ... and your beloved Soviet Union is in the garbage can.

Too bad our efforts on behalf of Cambodia weren't successful at first. Your commie buddies slaughtered innocent people by the millions. But our continued efforts have finally managed to unshackle Cambodia ... and it's well on its way to freedom.

I don't know whom you're referring to as "neighbors to China." We've certainly helped South Korea to be a free, democratic, prosperous country ... and hopefully we'll take care of North Korea some day. Mongolia is also a free democracy. Poor Tibet though has been under the communist boot for over fifty years. Short of nuking Peking ... I don't know what we can do to help them in their remote mountainous country.

And finally ... (whew!) ... the Palestinian's "land" is in Arabia ... a very large and wealthy country. Why don't they "move" there?

Ooops ... I forgot ... the Saud family controls the Arab homeland and they're keeping all its wealth for themselves ... and keeping their Palestinian "brothers" out at the point of a bayonet.

You are so biased it isn't even funny. You are completely irrational. Saudi Arabia has Oil. Israel does not. Why don't you get some of your brilliant scientists do create synthetic oil or something.

For the 30th time now, explain to me how it benefits the US to give billions of aid to a country that has nothing for us. Iraq has oil. I see that. Saudi Arabia oil. Israel- what are they going to give us, sand? :eek:

Give me the answer to this question, WHY IS THE AVERAGE AMERICAN GIVING AID TO ISRAEL? SO ISRAELIS DON'T HAVE TO PAY MORE IN TAXES? Just raise Israelis taxes and you can buy all of the American made weapons you want.

[Bold Brooklynite]

THEY HAVE OIL and it stays cheap in return . Is that too difficult for you to figure out. We get something in return. WHAT DO WE GET FROM GIVING MONEY TO ISRAEL? Just headaches. :eek:
Ummm ... weren't you in an earlier post inveighing over how expensive oil is?

And I already answered the question as to what we get from giving money to Israel ... but I'll do it again since you didn't understand it the first time ...

What we get is ... the satisfaction of knowing that we've lived up to our American principles ... of defending freedom from tyranny. That may seem less important to you than having gas for your Yugo ... but to people who understand the importance firm principles play in determining the destiny of nations ... it's really much more important than the price of oil.

[timmgirvan]

Great, well get the dam minerals and stay out of my paycheck. You are delusional about the trillion dollars in minerals anyway. That is funny. I guess nobody got around to getting them. LOL. The US shouldn't give aid to the Palestinians either unless they discover oil.
I'm delusional?? Read a book once in a while!

[boldruler]

I'm delusional?? Read a book once in a while!

What book? The Old Testament? Next you will tell me there was an Ark that saved all the animals and people from a world flood. :eek:

Maybe those minerals are right next to the tablets of the ten commandments. :eek:


If there are trillions in minerals why do you need my tax dollar to defend yourself?

[boldruler]

Ummm ... weren't you in an earlier post inveighing over how expensive oil is?

And I already answered the question as to what we get from giving money to Israel ... but I'll do it again since you didn't understand it the first time ...

What we get is ... the satisfaction of knowing that we've lived up to our American principles ... of defending freedom from tyranny. That may seem less important to you than having gas for your Yugo ... but to people who understand the importance firm principles play in determining the destiny of nations ... it's really much more important than the price of oil.


I love the "satisfaction of knowing that we've lived up to our American principles", is that from a hallmark card? :eek:

American principles are doing what is best for america. So I guess giving millions to Sadaam Hussein years ago and propping up dictators like those in Saudi Arabia is living up to american principles? :eek:

You might be the most delusional person on earth. Who taught you this nonsense, Sean Hannity or Rush Limbaugh? Learn to think for yourself.

You keep failing to answer why they need my tax dollar. Is Israel short on cash or would they just prefer to raise my taxes instead of their own?

[Bold Brooklynite]

We aided countries because it benefitted us. Israel should defend itself, just not with my money. Why should a poor/middle class person in america give money to Israel? So a rich person in Israel doesn't have to pay as much in taxes? The US gets nothing for its aid.
First of all ... it isn't necessary to use boldface type to make a point. If your ideas are sound ... they'll come through without the boldface.

Now ... having said that ... can you explain how spending a fortune ... and sacrificing hundreds of thousands of lives and enduring hundreds of thousands more of wounded ... defending France, Belgium, China ... and countless other nations ... benefitted us more than just sending relatively piddling amounts of money ... a few billion per year ... to Israel?

And by the way ... poor and middle class people don't pay income taxes in the United States. 100% of income taxes are paid by the top 47% of income earners. In fact ... 75% of all income taxes are paid by the top 10% of income earners. So ... please spare us your crocodile tears for the poor and middle class.

[timmgirvan]

What book? The Old Testament? Next you will tell me there was an Ark that saved all the animals and people from a world flood. :eek:

Maybe those minerals are right next to the tablets of the ten commandments. :eek:


If there are trillions in minerals why do you need my tax dollar to defend yourself?
OMG...an unwashed among us?? Please read post # 83 for the answer! It'll probably be over your head..but you gotta start somewhere,huh?

[boldruler]

First of all ... it isn't necessary to use boldface type to make a point. If your ideas are sound ... they'll come through without the boldface.

Now ... having said that ... can you explain how spending a fortune ... and sacrificing hundreds of thousands of lives and enduring hundreds of thousands more of wounded ... defending France, Belgium, China ... and countless other nations ... benefitted us more than just sending relatively piddling amounts of money ... a few billion per year ... to Israel?

And by the way ... poor and middle class people don't pay income taxes in the United States. 100% of income taxes are paid by the top 47% of income earners. In fact ... 75% of all income taxes are paid by the top 10% of income earners. So ... please spare us your crocodile tears for the poor and middle class.

I am done talking to you. You are insane. Everyone in American that earns a living pays income taxes you fool. Did Sean Hannity fail to explain that to you. :eek: If we send billions to Israel every year, it means that is billions taken away from education in america. It means it is less taxes that Israelis have to pay to defend themselves. Why are americans paying more in taxes so Israelis can pay less? How hard is that for you to figure out?

The US government isn't funding mental help for soldiers returning for war, but we have money for the Israeli Army? I suspect that doesn't bother you because I see where your allegiance is. This is why dual citizenship should go out the door.

[boldruler]

OMG...an unwashed among us?? Please read post # 83 for the answer! It'll probably be over your head..but you gotta start somewhere,huh?

I am going to just guess that I am a little brighter and better educated than you so nothing you biased people can say is going to go over my head.

[Bold Brooklynite]

I love the "satisfaction of knowing that we've lived up to our American principles", is that from a hallmark card?

No ... our principles are stated in the Declaration Of Independence and the Constitution.

Abiding by those principles ... not having "oil" or "minerals" ... is why the United States has been the most successful nation in the history of the world.

You may scoff at abstract concepts ... most ignorant people do ... but fortunately the very wise founders of this country ... and the majority of the citizenry which has formed its government for the past 230 years ... do understand the importance of ideas and principles ... and the importance of sticking with them.

You may not realize it ... but you've spent your entire life benefitting from the ideas and principles of others who are considerably more enlightened than you are.

[boldruler]

No ... our principles are stated in the Declaration Of Independence and the Constitution.

Abiding by those principles ... not having "oil" or "minerals" ... is why the United States has been the most successful nation in the history of the world.

You may scoff at abstract concepts ... most ignorant people do ... but fortunately the very wise founders of this country ... and the majority of the citizenry which has formed its government for the past 230 years ... do understand the importance of ideas and principles ... and the importance of sticking with them.

You may not realize it ... but you've spent your entire life benefitting from the ideas and priciples of others who are considerably more enlightened than you are.

Yeah, they forgot to teach me that in Con Law. Those very wise founders were primarily deists and warned against getting involved with other countries.

I have done more for members of our military than you have ever done, although I suspect you probably would side with Israel over my country anyway.

[Bold Brooklynite]

I am done talking to you. You are insane. Everyone in American that earns a living pays income taxes you fool.
This isn't a matter of opinion ... it's a matter of fact.

The top 1% of income earners pay 50% of all income income taxes. The top 10% pay 75% of all income taxes. The top 47% pay 100% of all income taxes. The bottom 53% of income earners pay no income tax at all.

You may call someone who knows these facts a fool ... but in the end ... it's crystal clear who the real fool is.

[dalakhani]

I'll tell you what. If i were Bold Brooklynite, i would realize when i was totally outclassed and get on down the road. You cant handle this Bold Ruler.

[Bold Brooklynite]

Yeah, they forgot to teach me that in Con Law.
Con Law ... isn't that what they teach in prison to inmates who are trying to plea their way out?

[Bold Brooklynite]

I'll tell you what. If i were Bold Brooklynite, i would realize when i was totally outclassed and get on down the road. You cant handle this Bold Ruler.
But very fortunately for me ... you aren't me ...

... and I couldn't be more pleased.

[dalakhani]

But very fortunately for me ... you aren't me ...

... and I couldn't be more pleased.

Weak...try again. Perhaps you can cut and paste an insult that might have a little more bite. It seems that you are pretty good at cutting and pasting as has been previously demonstrated.

[boldruler]

This isn't a matter of opinion ... it's a matter of fact.

The top 1% of income earners pay 50% of all income income taxes. The top 10% pay 75% of all income taxes. The top 47% pay 100% of all income taxes. The bottom 53% of income earners pay no income tax at all.

You may call someone who knows these facts a fool ... but in the end ... it's crystal clear who the real fool is.

You are wrong. Who teaches you this garbage? I am sure it is Rush Limbaugh.


Here I will bold it for you so maybe you will answer it.

The fact is that even if that were true, why should I be paying more taxes so that people in Israel can pay less? You keep avoiding this question.

Are you saying the people in Israel deserve to have more money in their pocket and I should be paying for their military instead of paying for it themselves? Why don't I just pay it directly to them from my paycheck. Our government runs huge deficits so we can pay for another coutries military. Makes sense to me. LOL.

[dalakhani]

Poor, poor Brooklynite. Found someone "bolder" and much more polished on the issues and cant stand that his poor little ego got smashed to ribbons. :)

[boldruler]

Weak...try again. Perhaps you can cut and paste an insult that might have a little more bite. It seems that you are pretty good at cutting and pasting as has been previously demonstrated.

He can't handle anything when he is on the wrong side of an issue.

No rational person can defend me paying higher taxes so that people in another country don't have to pay for their own military. Basically I am allowing them to pay less in taxes, so I am paying more in taxes so they can have nicer cars and go on vacation. Sounds like a great deal to me. :eek:

[dalakhani]

He can't handle anything when he is on the wrong side of an issue.

No rational person can defend me paying higher taxes so that people in another country don't have to pay for their own military. Basically I am allowing them to pay less in taxes, so I am paying more in taxes so they can have nicer cars and go on vacation. Sounds like a great deal to me. :eek:

Well, he just started the full scale retreat. He is now spending the next few hours immersing himself in those great thinkers named Hannity, Limbaugh and O'reilly. Perhaps he is googling every neo-conservative spin artist in the country in an attempt to find a worthy article to cut and paste.

Poor Brooklynite. He's kind of like Bush. If he gets off the script one iota he ends up looking like the utter buffoon that he is.

[ArlJim78]

Really? I can think of a number of other countries that couldnt find their way against worse tyrannies and bullies than the ones that Israel faces.

Why didnt we help the people of Cambodia against Pol Pot or there oppressive neighbors? All we did was bomb them.

Why didnt we help all of those eastern bloc countries in the fifties when all they had were rocks?

Why dont we help the palestinians whose land is being constantly encroached upon by...Israeli settlers????LOL

Why dont we help some of the neighbors to china?

Why is all of this money pouring into Israel?

Question still unanswered.

It's simply not possible for the US to be a one stop solution to every despotic regime. If ideology alone is your guide you'll end up being pushed into entanglements everywhere in the world at once that would surely bankrupt us. This one solution fits all approach is reckless and could lead to horrible results. When the bullies and tyrants are actually clients of nuclear powers you do not rush in to topple these regimes unless you're ready for an all out world war. No, foreign policy has to be more pragmatic using policies crafted specifically for the situation especially when it comes under the spheres of influence of China and the former Soviet Union.

Supporting Israel like we have is cheap and effective compared to the alternatives. This was not an option in the fifties in eastern europe.

And supporting China's neighboring states like we do Israel, just because we do not like everything China does, is not an option at this point unless we just want to chuck our entire relations with China. No we're in an ecomomic war with China and we need for our own benefit to be engaged with them directly and not trying to set a neighboring state against them.

There are always bullies and thugs around and sometimes there are no better solutions than to be cozy with them for strategic reasons. Its not always clear what the better alternative is and sitting on the sideline without a chip in the game or any influence has it's drawbacks as well.

That's my $.02 anyway.

[dalakhani]

It's simply not possible for the US to be a one stop solution to every despotic regime. If ideology alone is your guide you'll end up being pushed into entanglements everywhere in the world at once that would surely bankrupt us. This one solution fits all approach is reckless and could lead to horrible results. When the bullies and tyrants are actually clients of nuclear powers you do not rush in to topple these regimes unless you're ready for an all out world war. No, foreign policy has to be more pragmatic using policies crafted specifically for the situation especially when it comes under the spheres of influence of China and the former Soviet Union.

Supporting Israel like we have is cheap and effective compared to the alternatives. This was not an option in the fifties in eastern europe.

And supporting China's neighboring states like we do Israel, just because we do not like everything China does, is not an option at this point unless we just want to chuck our entire relations with China. No we're in an ecomomic war with China and we need for our own benefit to be engaged with them directly and not trying to set a neighboring state against them.

There are always bullies and thugs around and sometimes there are no better solutions than to be cozy with them for strategic reasons. Its not always clear what the better alternative is and sitting on the sideline without a chip in the game or any influence has it's drawbacks as well.

That's my $.02 anyway.

Solution for Despotic rulers? We've created more despotic rulers than any country in the last two hundred years.

How can our support of Israel be viewed in any way as "cheap". I dont get that. Help me here. Arent we over 100 billion into them yet?

Im still waiting for an answer- why do we send so much money to Israel? And if we have to send money out, if it is our duty, why so much more to them? How do they help us?????

[Bold Brooklynite]

Well, he just started the full scale retreat. He is now spending the next few hours immersing himself in those great thinkers named Hannity, Limbaugh and O'reilly. Perhaps he is googling every neo-conservative spin artist in the country in an attempt to find a worthy article to cut and paste.

Poor Brooklynite. He's kind of like Bush. If he gets off the script one iota he ends up looking like the utter buffoon that he is.
Actually ...

... I took a short break because Mrs. Brooklynite ... who is a gourmet cook ... prepared a meal of spaghetti alle vongole verace ... spinaci alla siciliana ... and insalata mista ... which we washed down with a sleek soave bianco. Very refreshing.

OK now ... let's get on with it ...

You seem to think that your boy is doing well ... so .. let's look at his record so far on this thread ---

• Says people in small countries are sub-human ... gets slapped down.
• Thinks the Star of David is a religious symbol ... gets humiliated.
• Thinks a country's success depends on "oil" and "minerals" ... another slapdown.
• Doesn't know American values are stated in the Declaration and Constitution ... another humiliation.
• Confronts Dixie ... gets b-slapped.
• Doesn't know the Israeli war is part of the global war on terror ... blatant ignorance.
• Thinks all Israelis are orthodox Jews ... at least he was 10% right.
• Quotes Pat Buchanan ... at least it wasn't David Duke.
• Doesn't know who pays income taxes ... gets slapped down again.
• Thinks terrorists are "freedom fighters" ... still another slapdown.
• Forgot we liberated France, Belgium, and China ... hits the canvas more than Frazier vs. Foreman.
• Doesn't know Iraq has a democratically elected government ... more public ignorance.
• Says oil is "expensive" then says oil is "cheap" ... more self-humiliation.

Hmmm ... if the real Bold Ruler did as well as your boy ... he'd have been gelded and shipped to Nebraska.

[Bold Brooklynite]

It's simply not possible for the US to be a one stop solution to every despotic regime. If ideology alone is your guide you'll end up being pushed into entanglements everywhere in the world at once that would surely bankrupt us. This one solution fits all approach is reckless and could lead to horrible results. When the bullies and tyrants are actually clients of nuclear powers you do not rush in to topple these regimes unless you're ready for an all out world war. No, foreign policy has to be more pragmatic using policies crafted specifically for the situation especially when it comes under the spheres of influence of China and the former Soviet Union.

Supporting Israel like we have is cheap and effective compared to the alternatives. This was not an option in the fifties in eastern europe.

And supporting China's neighboring states like we do Israel, just because we do not like everything China does, is not an option at this point unless we just want to chuck our entire relations with China. No we're in an ecomomic war with China and we need for our own benefit to be engaged with them directly and not trying to set a neighboring state against them.

There are always bullies and thugs around and sometimes there are no better solutions than to be cozy with them for strategic reasons. Its not always clear what the better alternative is and sitting on the sideline without a chip in the game or any influence has it's drawbacks as well.

That's my $.02 anyway.
Jim ... you don't understand the way it works ...

... if they think that saying oil is expensive makes their point ... they say oil is expensive ... but ...

... if they think that saying oil is cheap makes their point ... they say oil is cheap ... sometimes completely contradicting themselves in the same post ... but ... it doesn't matter ... they have no shame ... they have no ideas ... they're just filled with rage and hatred ... and they really don't know why ... but to them it just feels good.

And after one is completely humiliated and slapped silly ... the other one says, "Yeah, man ... you're doing real good."

It's the terminally deluded in support of the completely vanquished ... and nothing more.

[boldruler]

Actually ...

... I took a short break because Mrs. Brooklynite ... who is a gourmet cook ... prepared a meal of spaghetti alle vongole verace ... spinaci alla siciliana ... and insalata mista ... which we washed down with a sleek soave bianco. Very refreshing.

OK now ... let's get on with it ...

You seem to think that your boy is doing well ... so .. let's look at his record so far on this thread ---

• Says people in small countries are sub-human ... gets slapped down.
• Thinks the Star of David is a religious symbol ... gets humiliated.
• Thinks a country's success depends on "oil" and "minerals" ... another slapdown.
• Doesn't know American values are stated in the Declaration and Constitution ... another humiliation.
• Confronts Dixie ... gets b-slapped.
• Doesn't know the Israeli war is part of the global war on terror ... blatant ignorance.
• Thinks all Israelis are orthodox Jews ... at least he was 10% right.
• Quotes Pat Buchanan ... at least it wasn't David Duke.
• Doesn't know who pays income taxes ... gets slapped down again.
• Thinks terrorists are "freedom fighters" ... still another slapdown.
• Forgot we liberated France, Belgium, and China ... hits the canvas more than Frazier vs. Foreman.
• Doesn't know Iraq has a democratically elected government ... more public ignorance.
• Says oil is "expensive" then says oil is "cheap" ... more self-humiliation.

Hmmm ... if the real Bold Ruler did as well as your boy ... he'd have been gelded and shipped to Nebraska.

You pull your playbook right out of Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity. Avoid the question and keep posting nonsense. They have taught you well on how to twist peoples words and lie. Do you guys get a good deal on your drugs from Rush the criminal? LOL. Or is it now the Book of Virtues guy who gambles away all his money on slot machines (gambling for the brilliant those slots) that you take your lessons from. I will respond to each of your comments when you answer the questions I have asked a million times with no answer.

Why am I paying taxes to fund an Israeli army? Why can't they just raise their own taxes to pay for it? Is it my job to pay taxes so they can pay less and have more money in their pockets to go on vacation and buy nicer cars? Why don't the people in their military take a pay cut? Is it my job to fund an army for another country? ANSWER THE QUESTIONS.

For the 100th time, everyone pays federal income tax. The bottom 20% actually get a break when they file so they do not wind up paying no federal income tax but still supply 2% of all taxes the federal government collects. Are you really that dumb and because rush limbaugh say something you believe it? Sean Hannity and Rush Limbaugh are no different than Jesse Jackson. They are con artists

[boldruler]

Jim ... you don't understand the way it works ...

... if they think that saying oil is expensive makes their point ... they say oil is expensive ... but ...

... if they think that saying oil is cheap makes their point ... they say oil is cheap ... sometimes completely contradicting themselves in the same post ... but ... it doesn't matter ... they have no shame ... they have no ideas ... they're just filled with rage and hatred ... and they really don't know why ... but to them it just feels good.

And after one is completely humiliated and slapped silly ... the other one says, "Yeah, man ... you're doing real good."

It's the terminally deluded in support of the completely vanquished ... and nothing more.

Sorry but you had your a ss handed to you on this thread.

Facts

-You can't answer the main point of the entire conversation. Why am I paying for another countries army when they could just pay for it themselves? Instead you go on all about how people don't pay income tax and all this other garbage. You answer my question with a reasonable answer and you win. You don't and you run away with your tail between your legs.

Just curious, do you pay american or israeli taxes? Or are there even israeli taxes or do they just get a piece of my paycheck each week. :eek:

[Bold Brooklynite]

Why am I paying taxes to fund an Israeli army? Why can't they just raise their own taxes to pay for it? Is it my job to pay taxes so they can pay less and have more money in their pockets to go on vacation and buy nicer cars? Why don't the people in their military take a pay cut? Is it my job to fund an army for another country? ANSWER THE QUESTIONS.
I've answered the questions twice ... but either you can't read ... or you just don't like what you're reading.

But ... since you're such a nice guy ... and you've been so courteous and understanding ... I'll answer your questions for the third time.

Our elected officials are supposed to use the money which our democratically-elected government ... controlled by its citizens under the rule of law ... collects in taxes ... in order to protect our freedom and insure our safety.

Now ... there are some very vicious people out there who ... now I know you don't believe this ... but that's just another one of your mistakes ... who want to murder all of us ... yes, even you. They really really do ... they want to mutilate and murder all of us ... and they've gotten a lot of practice by mutilating and murdering their co-religionists and fellow countrymen ... so they've become very skilled at murder and mutilation.

And these people can't be negotiated with. They are single-minded and totallly monomaniacal. The only way we can preserve our freedom ... our safety ... and our very lives ... is to fight back.

Now ... we can't be everywhere all the time ... so sometimes it's worthwhile to get some help in fighting these vicious murderers. There's a country called Israel ... populated by people with balls the size of grapefruits ... who can help us in this fight.

So ... what we do is send them some money and some supplies ... and they use it to blast the daylights out of some of the people who want to murder us.

This is actually a pretty good deal for us ... because it only costs about $7 billion per year ... which is 1/4 of 1% of everything that our federal government spends ... not even counting what our state and local governments spend.

See? We pay out a few bucks ... and they kill our enemies ... and in doing so ... they make it possible for people like you and your buddies ... with pea brains full of hatred ... to sit in comfort and safety ... and type out nonsense on your keyboards.

Now do you get it?

[Bold Brooklynite]

I will respond to each of your comments when you answer the questions.
No you won't ... you'll just toss sand in the air ... then wait for your buddies to tell you how great you are.

That's your M.O. ... because you have nothing else.

[boldruler]

I've answered the questions twice ... but either you can't read ... or you just don't like what you're reading.

But ... since you're such a nice guy ... and you've been so courteous and understanding ... I'll answer your questions for the third time.

Our elected officials are supposed to use the money which our democratically-elected government ... controlled by its citizens under the rule of law ... collects in taxes ... in order to protect our freedom and insure our safety.

Now ... there are some very vicious people out there who ... now I know you don't believe this ... but that's just another one of your mistakes ... who want to murder all of us ... yes, even you. They really really do ... they want to mutilate and murder all of us ... and they've gotten a lot of practice by mutilating and murdering their co-religionists and fellow countrymen ... so they've become very skilled at murder and mutilation.

And these people can't be negotiated with. They are single-minded and totallly monomaniacal. The only way we can preserve our freedom ... our safety ... and our very lives ... is to fight back.

Now ... we can't be everywhere all the time ... so sometimes it's worthwhile to get some help in fighting these vicious murderers. There's a country called Israel ... populated by people with balls the size of grapefruits ... who can help us in this fight.

So ... what we do is send them some money and some supplies ... and they use it to blast the daylights out of some of the people who want to murder us.

This is actually a pretty good deal for us ... because it only costs about $7 billion per year ... which is 1/4 of 1% of everything that our federal government spends ... not even counting what our state and local governments spend.

See? We pay out a few bucks ... and they kill our enemies ... and in doing so ... they make it possible for people like you and your buddies ... with pea brains full of hatred ... to sit in comfort and safety ... and type out nonsense on their keyboards.

Now do you get it?

Yeah I get it. You are an insane man. PAY FOR YOUR OWN MILITARY. It isn't my job. If you really believe we give billions of dollars to Israel in order to protect the United States, you aren't even worth talking to. You are just a clueless person who can't admit when he is wrong. First you said it was because we love freedom, but when you realized we prop up dictators and you realized Israel could pay for it themselves, you came up with this winner of an answer. Only an idiot would believe that one. Nice try though. Thank God for Israel, without them we wouldn't be able to defend ourselves from those terrorists they are killing. What a nutjob you are. Next you are going to tell me the Israeli military is just as good if not better than the US military. NUTJOB. Next you are going to tell me a whale spit out a guy named Jonah. LOL.

[Bold Brooklynite]

Yeah I get it. You are an insane man. PAY FOR YOUR OWN MILITARY. It isn't my job. If you really believe we give billions of dollars to Israel in order to protect the United States, you aren't even worth talking to. You are just a clueless person who can't admit when he is wrong. First you said it was because we love freedom, but when you realized we prop up dictators and you realized Israel could pay for it themselves, you came up with this winner of an answer. Only an idiot would believe that one. Nice try though. Thank God for Israel, without them we wouldn't be able to defend ourselves from those terrorists they are killing. What a nutjob you are. Next you are going to tell me the Israeli military is just as good if not better than the US military. NUTJOB. Next you are going to tell me a whale spit out a guy named Jonah. LOL.
As I said ... your M.O. is to toss sand in the air ... and then wait for your buddies to tell you how great you are ...

... and you've proven me right once again.

Hey ... I thought you were going to directly address every one of my comments. Let's try just one ...

You said I was "insane" because I provided the facts on who pays income taxes ... but ... as always ... you didn't provide any facts to dispute mine ... just the usual name calling and sand throwing.

So ... why don't you surprise all of us by giving us the "real" breakdown of how income tax payments are distributed across income groups. You claim my numbers are wrong ... then please provide the "correct" ones.

[Bold Brooklynite]

Yeah I get it. You are an insane man. PAY FOR YOUR OWN MILITARY. It isn't my job.
I don't like to see anyone get so upset ... so ...

... I'll tell you what I'll do to help you.

The aid we give to Israel amounts to 1/4 of 1% of the federal budget ... so ... please send me a copy of your 2005 federal tax filing ... and I'll personally send you a check for 1/4 of 1% of the taxes you paid.

Yup ... I'll take you up on your complaint ... I'll pay for my military ... and yours.

Deal?

[Bold Brooklynite]

Hmmm ... your buddies haven't posted anything in over three hours.

You must be feeling very lonely and a-scared right now.

Wait ... who's that standing behind you? It looks like ... it is ... it's Dixie ... watch out !!!!



Ha-ha-ha ... there's no one there ... I was just trying to scare you.

[ArlJim78]

Solution for Despotic rulers? We've created more despotic rulers than any country in the last two hundred years.
First of all I don’t believe for a minute this statement. Yes we’ve supported and propped up and used despots, but what was the choice? There’s not a lot to choose from in some cases. Should we have postponed any and all strategic relations until democracy was in full bloom? Even without our involvement I don’t believe that you can say for sure that the same regimes wouldn’t have thrived anyway, or that even more tyrannical ones would have existed in their place.

How can our support of Israel be viewed in any way as "cheap". I dont get that. Help me here. Arent we over 100 billion into them yet?

Im still waiting for an answer- why do we send so much money to Israel? And if we have to send money out, if it is our duty, why so much more to them? How do they help us?????
It is more than we give to any other nation, but over all these years it’s a drop in the bucket at around 100B. We’ve pumped around 90B into Iraq for rebuilding since the takeover of Baghdad.

The region is of vital strategic importance. Without Israel acting as our surrogate what strategy would have held in check the Soviet Unions ambitions and at the same time prevented the further expansion of fanatical religious regimes, given us the amount of intelligence that we currently share with Israel, and at the same time costing us less in terms of blood and treasure?

We give so much more to them simply because they are a stable, strong, democratic ally acting as our surrogate in a region of huge strategic importance, as I mentioned above.
There is not another country that can offer this to us and that is why more goes to them. Until recently we have given far less to others in the area, typically Egypt. But now with Afghanistan and Iraq on the receiving end of huge amounts of US aid our overall expenditures in the region are balancing out.

[Bold Brooklynite]

Holy shamoley!

I realy must have scared him ... he's been gone for over two hours ... after posting every thirty seconds.

Hey, man ... I'm sorry ... I didn't mean to scare you ... Dixie really wasn't standing behind you.

Aw, c'mon out and play again. You can even bring your buddies with you.

No? Shoot ... guess I'll just have to turn in.

[Bold Brooklynite]

First of all I don’t believe for a minute this statement. Yes we’ve supported and propped up and used despots, but what was the choice? There’s not a lot to choose from in some cases. Should we have postponed any and all strategic relations until democracy was in full bloom? Even without our involvement I don’t believe that you can say for sure that the same regimes wouldn’t have thrived anyway, or that even more tyrannical ones would have existed in their place.

Jim ... here's how to answer that ridiculous statement.

"You're confusing objectives and strategies. Our objective in places like Taiwan, South Korea, The Phillipines, Nicaragua, El Salvador, and Chile was to help establish freedom and democracy.

But there were times when our strategy was to support authoritarian dictators in order to thwart the greater evil of communism. And that strategy worked perfectly.

Communism was defeated ... and Taiwan, South Korea, The Phillipines, Nicaragua, El Salvador, and Chile all became free democracies.

We employed different strategies in Eastern Europe, South Africa, and many other places ... and those strategies achieved our objectives as well ... all those countries became free democracies.

So you see ... don't be confused by strategies ... keep your eye on the objective ... the way savvy Americans always have ... and you'll have a much clearer understanding of why we did what we did ... and how successful we've been."

That's how you handle chumps like that, Jim. Good night !!

[dalakhani]

First of all I don’t believe for a minute this statement. Yes we’ve supported and propped up and used despots, but what was the choice? There’s not a lot to choose from in some cases. Should we have postponed any and all strategic relations until democracy was in full bloom? Even without our involvement I don’t believe that you can say for sure that the same regimes wouldn’t have thrived anyway, or that even more tyrannical ones would have existed in their place.


It is more than we give to any other nation, but over all these years it’s a drop in the bucket at around 100B. We’ve pumped around 90B into Iraq for rebuilding since the takeover of Baghdad.

The region is of vital strategic importance. Without Israel acting as our surrogate what strategy would have held in check the Soviet Unions ambitions and at the same time prevented the further expansion of fanatical religious regimes, given us the amount of intelligence that we currently share with Israel, and at the same time costing us less in terms of blood and treasure?

We give so much more to them simply because they are a stable, strong, democratic ally acting as our surrogate in a region of huge strategic importance, as I mentioned above.
There is not another country that can offer this to us and that is why more goes to them. Until recently we have given far less to others in the area, typically Egypt. But now with Afghanistan and Iraq on the receiving end of huge amounts of US aid our overall expenditures in the region are balancing out.

Even being on the other side of these issues i commend you for your knowledgeable thought out responses. Cheers!

Now back to war.;)

We had plenty of choices but to use the despots that we have used. Thats what i mean. We say that we are doing what we do in the name of "the american way" and then we support leaders or governments that are so far away from what we claim we are fighting for. One minute, Rumsfeld is shaking hands with a guy and we are pumping them with money and arms. The next minute, the same guy has phantom wmd's and we need to rid the earth of him. It seems that we support despots that can be US controlled and the ones that cant are branded tyrants. Such is the American way or at least thats what our leaders think.

Israel is stable? Are you kidding me? They are the single reason why we have such unstable standing in the region. If not for our undying support of a country that is virtually worthless to us, we wouldnt have all of the problems with the arab governments that we do.

Egyptian and Russian ties were cut in the early 70's. We have a base and strong support in Saudi Arabia. So why is Israel so vital to us? I still dont know.

As for using how much money has been pumped into Iraq, again, that is yet another question for this administration. Why are we there? Wmds? Nope, arent there. Saddam the oppressor? We helped make Saddam! Terrorist ties? 911 commission proved that wasnt the case. So why? And if we are going to make that a base in the middle east, again, why give so much to Israel?

[ArlJim78]

Jim ... here's how to answer that ridiculous statement.

"You're confusing objectives and strategies. Our objective in places like Taiwan, South Korea, The Phillipines, Nicaragua, El Salvador, and Chile was to help establish freedom and democracy.

But there were times when our strategy was to support authoritarian dictators in order to thwart the greater evil of communism. And that strategy worked perfectly.

Communism was defeated ... and Taiwan, South Korea, The Phillipines, Nicaragua, El Salvador, and Chile all became free democracies.

We employed different strategies in Eastern Europe, South Africa, and many other places ... and those strategies achieved our objectives as well ... all those countries became free democracies.

So you see ... don't be confused by strategies ... keep your eye on the objective ... the way savvy Americans always have ... and you'll have a much clearer understanding of why we did what we did ... and how successful we've been."

That's how you handle chumps like that, Jim. Good night !!

Yes you said it, that's what I meant to say! I won't argue with your ability to say it better than I can.

[dalakhani]

Yes you said it, that's what I meant to say! I won't argue with your ability to say it better than I can.

Okay, so what country has put up more tyrannical despot rulers than the US over the last 200 years? Shall i go over the names?

[ArlJim78]

Okay, so what country has put up more tyrannical despot rulers than the US over the last 200 years? Shall i go over the names?
You can go ahead and put up the names, but at the same time I want to know from you what should the strategy have been at the time? Who should we have supported, anyone? No one? I know that you can come up with a list of despised dictators but that's not the hard part.

[dalakhani]

You can go ahead and put up the names, but at the same time I want to know from you what should the strategy have been at the time? Who should we have supported, anyone? No one? I know that you can come up with a list of despised dictators but that's not the hard part.

Okay Jim...I'll bite.

Just for starters:

How about the somozas in Nicaragua? We put this family in in the 1920's. That fool brooklynite keeps speaking of "objectives" but why did we keep a family of successive despots in until 1979? There was no threat of communism for much of that tenure. So why? Because it was easy to control with money. We didnt give a damn about democracy or "the american way". it was about sheer control and about serious violations of human rights and misuse of US aid. What could we have done differently? Perhaps we could have not fed them the money for so many years. When the money stopped, so did their reign.

How about Mobutu in the congo? Didnt he make off with like 5 billion dollars in money bilked by US taxpayers all because he agreed to close the Soviet embassy. Surely we could have backed a different man...a man that would share some of the 5 billion dollars to his starving people.

How about Idi Amin? Us aid in dollars and military equipment all while he killed THREE HUNDRED THOUSAND OF HIS OWN PEOPLE. Yep, the American way right there. We really liberated those poor people and showed them a NEW way of life.

How about Pol Pot? I love when idiots like this brooklynite fool talk completely out of their ass and have not a clue about what they are farting out. Pol Pot came to power as a result of the frenzy from illegal US bombing during the Viet Nam war. I said ILLEGAL US bombing. Then, because Pol Pot hated the soviets and they were natural enemies to Viet Nam, the US decided to support the government and did so for five years while he killed over a MILLION of his own people. What could they have done differently? HMMMMM....maybe tried to fight this guy who was committing genocide? This brooklynite fool actually tries to claim that the US helped rid the country of tyranny. What a moron! The US SUPPORTED IT! The Vietnamese liberated Cambodia from Pol Pot.

Thats just starters...you want more?

[Rupert Pupkin]

You can go ahead and put up the names, but at the same time I want to know from you what should the strategy have been at the time? Who should we have supported, anyone? No one? I know that you can come up with a list of despised dictators but that's not the hard part.
We have all of these Monday morning quarterbacks here that criticize every move tha the US has made over the years. I agree that the US has made some mistakes over the years. That's not the point. When you are the richest country in the world and you have a stake in the outcome of many global conflicts, sometimes you are forced to take sides in these conflicts. The US has to ask itself what the better outcome would be in each of these conflicts. The Iran/Iraq war back in the 1980s is a perfect example. People on this board like Dalakhani say that we shouldn't have supported Saddam back in the 1980s, but what was the alternative? Iraq was at war with Iran at the time. Our leaders thought about the situation carefully and decided that it was important to make sure that Iran did not prevail in that war, so we supported Iraq. The fact that Saddam became an enemy years later does not mean that it was a mistake to support Iraq back in the 1980s. Saddam was the lesser of two evils at the time. The radical regime that was in power in Iran in the 1980s appeared to be a dangerous threat. The smart thing for us to do at the time was to support Saddam.
I don't know why people like to bring up the fact that we supported Saddam back in the 1980s. How is that relevant to today? It made sense to support Saddam in the 1980s.

[dalakhani]

We have all of these Monday morning quarterbacks here that criticize every move tha the US has made over the years. I agree that the US has made some mistakes over the years. That's not the point. When you are the richest country in the world and you have a stake in the outcome of many global conflicts, sometimes you are forced to take sides in these conflicts. The US has to ask itself what the better outcome would be in each of these conflicts. The Iran/Iraq war back in the 1980s is a perfect example. People on this board like Dalakhani say that we shouldn't have supported Saddam back in the 1980s, but what was the alternative? Iraq was at war with Iran at the time. Our leaders thought about the situation carefully and decided that it was important to make sure that Iran did not prevail in that war, so we supported Iraq. The fact that Saddam became an enemy years later does not mean that it was a mistake to support Iraq back in the 1980s. Saddam was the lesser of two evils at the time. The radical regime that was in power in Iran in the 1980s appeared to be a dangerous threat. The smart thing for us to do at the time was to support Saddam.
I don't know why people like to bring up the fact that we supported Saddam back in the 1980s. How is that relevant to today? It made sense to support Saddam in the 1980s.

Rupert-

Do me a favor and PLEASE keep posting on this topic. Your replies make for rather easy fodder. Thank you!

First of all, the US supplied BOTH sides of that little war. Surely youve heard of the whole Iran- Contra deal which nearly got a president impeached and caused one Oliver North to gain a sudden case of amnesia. The US supplied both sides so that they could kill each other off. Yes- The altruistic motives of the US government at its very best.

Basically you are saying that the US empowered and supplied a genocidal, tyrannical despot as the "lesser of two evils" so that we could maintain political control? What about the "freedom" of the Iraqi people that our troops are dying for every day? Was that "freedom" not important then?

[Rupert Pupkin]

Rupert-

Do me a favor and PLEASE keep posting on this topic. Your replies make for rather easy fodder. Thank you!

First of all, the US supplied BOTH sides of that little war. Surely youve heard of the whole Iran- Contra deal which nearly got a president impeached and caused one Oliver North to gain a sudden case of amnesia. The US supplied both sides so that they could kill each other off. Yes- The altruistic motives of the US government at its very best.

Basically you are saying that the US empowered and supplied a genocidal, tyrannical despot as the "lesser of two evils" so that we could maintain political control? What about the "freedom" of the Iraqi people that our troops are dying for every day? Was that "freedom" not important then?
As Arl Jim said, "It's not possible for the US to be a one stop solution for every despotic regime. Foreign policy has to be pragmatic using policies crafted specifically for each individual situation."
I agree with Arl Jim 100% on this. I think this ansewrs your question as to why the US supports dictators when it suits them. We play the cards that are dealt us. I think it's that simple.
You made a sarcastic comment about the US government being altruistic. We may not always be altruistic but we are a helluva lot more altruistic than any other country in the world. We provide more aid all around the world than any other country.
You seem to have a lot of questions and criticisms about US foreign policy, but you don't seem to have any answers.
Anyway, US foreign policy with regard to Israel is not going to change. Israel has great bi-partisan support in Congress as it should. I know you'd like to see us support terrorists or "freedom fighters" as you would call them, but that won't be happening any time soon.

[dalakhani]

As Arl Jim said, "It's not possible for the US to be a one stop solution for every despotic regime. Foreign policy has to be pragmatic using policies crafted specifically for each individual situation."
I agree with Arl Jim 100% on this. I think this ansewrs your question as to why the US supports dictators when it suits them. We play the cards that are dealt us. I think it's that simple.
You made a sarcastic comment about the US government being altruistic. We may not always be altruistic but we are a helluva lot more altruistic than any other country in the world. We provide more aid all around the world than any other country.
You seem to have a lot of questions and criticisms about US foreign policy, but you don't seem to have any answers.
Anyway, US foreign policy with regard to Israel is not going to change. Israel has great bi-partisan support in Congress as it should. I know you'd like to see us support terrorists or "freedom fighters" as you would call them, but that won't be happening any time soon.

No Rupert, we dont "play the cards" rather we deal them. The US hasnt just supported dictators, we have put them in power and sponsored all of their attrocities and violations against humanity. I understand the US must play a sort of shell game in the grand scheme of world politics. But do we have to disguise these intentions to the American people as if we are indeed being pure in all of our motives? I have seen each one of you sit here and say initially that the moves made were in the name of "freedom" and "fight against tyranny" and now it seems that you are going back on that a little. Maybe a lot.

Why should it have "great bipartisan support in congress"? Have you ever thought about that once when there was a commercial on Rush's show?

I would love to see a fair and balanced approach to the middle east where the opinions, feelings, needs and interests of all sides were taken into account. Israel has a right to defend herself...no doubt. But not on my dollar.

[Bold Brooklynite]

You can go ahead and put up the names, but at the same time I want to know from you what should the strategy have been at the time? Who should we have supported, anyone? No one? I know that you can come up with a list of despised dictators but that's not the hard part.
Now that's a great answer !!!

You're learning fast, Jimbo ... these guys are fast with the criticisms ... but they never offer an alternative.

The other guy said I was "insane" because of the tax distribution numbers I posted ... but ... did you notice that he never came up with figures of his own to refute mine?

Yup ... that's the technique to use with them ... "Hey, you don't like the strategy that was used ... then what would you have done ... hmmmm?"

Shuts 'em down every time.

[boldruler]

Notice there is no response to why I should pay for their military instead of the Israeli taxpayer paying for their own military. I am glad people in my own country that pay taxes that live in New Orleans or MS can't get their city rebuilt with their own tax dollar because we need to make sure taxes stay low in a foreign country. God must not want them to pay too much in taxes. :eek:

[Bold Brooklynite]

Okay Jim...I'll bite.

Just for starters:

How about the somozas in Nicaragua?

How about Mobutu in the congo?

How about Idi Amin?

How about Pol Pot?

Thats just starters...you want more?
I notice you conveniently left out every country I mentioned ... where we backed a dictator against communist aggression ... then after we defeated communism ... we helped Taiwan, South Korea, The Phillipines, Chile, Nicaragua, and El Salvador become free democracies.

You did mention Nicaragua ... but to what end? We helped defeat the communists and it's now a free democracy ... did you prefer a different outcome ... and what would that outcome have been?

Congo? Are you serious? That was a Belgian colony which never even made it on our radar. We never had ... and never wanted ... any influence there.

Idi Amin? We always worked against him ... and now Uganda is an emerging democracy. Another successful strategy and outcome. What would you have preferred?

Pol Pot? He was a murderous communist whom we worked against ... but unfortunately we couldn't prevent from coming to power after the communists swept into South Vietnam ... after our Democrat Congress shamelessly abandoned our allies by completely cutting off our aid.

How about Iran? That was a case where numbskull Jimmuh abandoned a pro-western dictator ... the shah ... and handed the country over to the fanatical mullahs ... and the entire world has been paying a horrible price ever since. Doncha think that staying with the shah would have been better than the idiotic strategy of Jimmuh ... the worst president we've ever had?

And Vietnam? Another horrible mistake of not backing a pro-western Christian dictator ... Diem. Did I say not backing him? Hey .. the idiot Kennedy had him murdered! Again ... was not backing a pro-western dictator in South Vietnam a good idea?

Yes, my friend ... there are times when choosing the lesser of two evils yields beneficial results ... South Korea, Taiwan, The Phillipines, Chile, Nicaragua, El Salvador ... and other times when NOT backing a dictator leads to even worse results ... Vietnam, Iran.

You do see that now ... don't you?

[Bold Brooklynite]

Notice there is no response to why I should pay for their military instead of the Israeli taxpayer paying for their own military. I am glad people in my own country that pay taxes that live in New Orleans or MS can't get their city rebuilt with their own tax dollar because we need to make sure taxes stay low in a foreign country. God must not want them to pay too much in taxes. :eek:
Folks ... as you see ... this man is seriously demented.

I answered his question three times ... and even offered to pay his tab for our aid to Israel ... but he's still saying there's "no response."

As I said .. if the real Bold Ruler had performed like this guy ... he'd have been gelded and sent to Nebraska.

What a sad, sorry loser.

[Bold Brooklynite]

No Rupert, we dont "play the cards" rather we deal them. The US hasnt just supported dictators, we have put them in power and sponsored all of their attrocities and violations against humanity. I understand the US must play a sort of shell game in the grand scheme of world politics. But do we have to disguise these intentions to the American people as if we are indeed being pure in all of our motives? I have seen each one of you sit here and say initially that the moves made were in the name of "freedom" and "fight against tyranny" and now it seems that you are going back on that a little. Maybe a lot.

Hey ... talk to me, pal ... I'm right in front of you.

I listed 44 countries with billions of people that we've liberated over the past 65 years ... and you continue to ignore that fact .... and make wild, baseless claims completely unsupported by any facts.

And I've backed down from nothing ... because I've embarrassed and humiliated you and your buddies throughout this thread.

Your other little pal ran away with his tail between his legs. He only shows up to throw sand in the air .. and then wait for you to say, "Hey, man ... you're great."

All we get from you guys is a circle jerk ... which I guess is what makes you really happy.

[Bold Brooklynite]

As Arl Jim said, "It's not possible for the US to be a one stop solution for every despotic regime. Foreign policy has to be pragmatic using policies crafted specifically for each individual situation."
I agree with Arl Jim 100% on this. I think this ansewrs your question as to why the US supports dictators when it suits them. We play the cards that are dealt us. I think it's that simple.
You made a sarcastic comment about the US government being altruistic. We may not always be altruistic but we are a helluva lot more altruistic than any other country in the world. We provide more aid all around the world than any other country.
You seem to have a lot of questions and criticisms about US foreign policy, but you don't seem to have any answers.
Anyway, US foreign policy with regard to Israel is not going to change. Israel has great bi-partisan support in Congress as it should. I know you'd like to see us support terrorists or "freedom fighters" as you would call them, but that won't be happening any time soon.
As I've said many times, Rupe ... don't expect a serious answer from these guys ...

... because all they can do is throw sand in the air and congratulate each other's ignorance.

That's their M.O. ... because they have nothing else.

[boldruler]

Folks ... as you see ... this man is seriously demented.

I answered his question three times ... and even offered to pay his tab for our aid to Israel ... but he's still saying there's "no response."

As I said .. if the real Bold Ruler had performed like this guy ... he'd have been gelded and sent to Nebraska.

What a sad, sorry loser.

You answered nothing. You think americans should pay more taxes so Israelis, like yourself, can pay less in taxes. It is that simple.

You my friend are the loser. Answer this question, where is your first allegiance to the US or Israel? And only one country can come first. If US interests clash with Israeli interests, which do you side with? Go ahead traitor, answer that one.

Here is another. Are you in favor of getting a pardon for Jonathan Pollard, a traitor to the United States, like many people from Israel are?

Answer the questions this time. Don't pull your change the topic crap either.

[Bold Brooklynite]

Hey Grand Master,

You would not believe it, but I have read this whole thread. BEST POST I've seen yet (actually a dead heat with Jim's)

Although S2S, dalakhani and Bold Ruler are insignificant "busted out" welfare cases their thought process, ignorance and hatred is indeed chilling. Why does dalak continually spell America with a SMALL A; Freudian slip?

Dateline: Caesarea, Israel

Yesterday began an op whose name you will never see in the media (Operation Wrath of God) Sherman's "march to the sea" is going to look like a Labor Day picnic.

Here are some facts:

1) The body count being given to the media by Hizbollah is 10% of what it actually is.

2) IDF soldiers have been continually hearing battle orders being shouted about in Farsi when in Lebanon. Iran has "boots on the ground".

3) I am a HAWK who is not particually allied with either the right or the left 100% of the time. I have no problem in paraphrasing Marx when his words are those of my own feelings and beliefs.

4) It is widely acknowledged that the 4 most brilliant minds of the last 200 years are Freud, Marx, Einstein and Darwin. Interesting that 3 of the 4 are Jewish.

5) Unfortunately you are wasting your time with these 3 irrational misfits. At least fupeg has a brain when she isn't loaded.

6) The alcoholic Pat Buchanon is, and always was, America's leading antisemite. If his words were any different than the one's pasted above I'd start to worry.
I'm getting more hopeful that you're right about Israel's strategy ... I expect to see some real fireworks in the next week.

And I hope and pray that Junior from Damascus decides to get involved ... he probably won't because he's a complete coward ... but maybe he's just dumb enough to do so.

And yeah ... that guy really gave himself away by quoting Buchanan ... now we know just who he is and where he's coming from.

[boldruler]

Are you going to answer my last post or just hide like one of the little girls in your military? :eek:

[Bold Brooklynite]

You answered nothing. You think americans should pay more taxes so Israelis, like yourself, can pay less in taxes. It is that simple.

You my friend are the loser. Answer this question, where is your first allegiance to the US or Israel? And only one country can come first. If US interests clash with Israeli interests, which do you side with? Go ahead traitor, answer that one.

Here is another. Are you in favor of getting a pardon for Jonathan Pollard, a traitor to the United States, like many people from Israel are?

Answer the questions this time. Don't pull your change the topic crap either.
You answer nothing ... all the time.

You said you would answer my earlier post point-by-point ... but I told everyone that you never would ... and you haven't.

I challenged you right to your face ... but you did what you always do ... put your tail between your legs and run away ... then wait for your buddies to show up so you can be "brave" again.

You got really scared when I told you Dixie was standing behind you ... didn't you?

When are you going to live up to your boast ... and answer my post point-by-point?

[boldruler]

You answer nothing ... all the time.

You said you would answer my earlier post point-by-point ... but I told everyone that you never would ... and you haven't.

I challenged you right to your face ... but you did what you always do ... put your tail between your legs and run away ... then wait for your buddies to show up so you can be "brave" again.

You got really scared when I told you Dixie was standing behind you ... didn't you?

When are you going to live up to your boast ... and answer my post point-by-point?

As I pointed out, you couldn't answer my questions, because you are a TRAITOR.

[Bold Brooklynite]

Are you going to answer my last post or just hide like one of the little girls in your military? :eek:
Little girls? MY military?

OK, pal ... you really hung yourself with that one ...

... I'm done with you ... but unfortunately for you ... I don't think Dixie is ...

... in fact ... he's standing right behind you ... LOOK OUT !!!!

[boldruler]

Con Law ... isn't that what they teach in prison to inmates who are trying to plea their way out?

Actually it is what they teach in american laws schoolsl. Idiot.

[Bold Brooklynite]

Dateline: Caesarea, Israel

Conde has conveyed a message, behind closed doors, from the Commander in Chief. "You have 14 more days and it's GIN"

As I type Beirut is in flames. The 2 day grace period for Conde's safe journey is over. Operation "Wrath of God" is in it's 2nd day. Supreme Cmndr. of the IDF has vowed that for every Katusha that lands in Haifa 10 Beirut buildings will vanish from the earth's surface. Two hours ago a 15 year old Israeli girl was killed by a Katusha in Haifa.

Last night's attempted missle (compliments os Syria) strike on TA was tracked by Arrow and Patriot anti missle batterys and was allowed to fall harmlessly into the sea rather than be shot down. As I have said before 90% of Iraq's WMD's were moved into Syria at the start of DS. They now are in the hands of Hizbollah. YES, the nuclear option is on the table as it was in 73.

Time to take the Enola Gay out of moth balls

Let's ROLL !!!

[Bold Brooklynite]

Actually it is what they teach in american laws schoolsl. Idiot.
Do they teach how to spell "schools"? And how to capitalize "American"?

[Bold Brooklynite]

As you see, folks ...

... when you stand up to these guys ... they eventualy get so frustrated and emotional that they expose their true selves.

We're clearly dealing here with a bunch of America-haters ... who have no real ideas ... but whose every word, move, and reflex is controlled by a hatred for the country which has protected them and allowed them to live in security and freedom.

At some point ... it becomes useless to continue debate with them ... because they're not only beyond reason ... they're even beyond humiliation and shame.

So that takes all the fun out it. How much more could I have humiliated them? And yet their hatred makes them impervious to even knowing how utterly foolish they look.

[boldruler]

Actually ...

... I took a short break because Mrs. Brooklynite ... who is a gourmet cook ... prepared a meal of spaghetti alle vongole verace ... spinaci alla siciliana ... and insalata mista ... which we washed down with a sleek soave bianco. Very refreshing.

OK now ... let's get on with it ...

You seem to think that your boy is doing well ... so .. let's look at his record so far on this thread ---

• Says people in small countries are sub-human ... gets slapped down.
• Thinks the Star of David is a religious symbol ... gets humiliated.
• Thinks a country's success depends on "oil" and "minerals" ... another slapdown.
• Doesn't know American values are stated in the Declaration and Constitution ... another humiliation.
• Confronts Dixie ... gets b-slapped.
• Doesn't know the Israeli war is part of the global war on terror ... blatant ignorance.
• Thinks all Israelis are orthodox Jews ... at least he was 10% right.
• Quotes Pat Buchanan ... at least it wasn't David Duke.
• Doesn't know who pays income taxes ... gets slapped down again.
• Thinks terrorists are "freedom fighters" ... still another slapdown.
• Forgot we liberated France, Belgium, and China ... hits the canvas more than Frazier vs. Foreman.
• Doesn't know Iraq has a democratically elected government ... more public ignorance.
• Says oil is "expensive" then says oil is "cheap" ... more self-humiliation.

Hmmm ... if the real Bold Ruler did as well as your boy ... he'd have been gelded and shipped to Nebraska.

1) I said the countries are insignifcant, no mention of the people. They are insignificant, nothing would change if they were there or weren't there.
2) American Values are not stated in the Constitution or Declaration. You are a simple minded idiot. There is no such thing as American Values. Why were there slaves and women with no rights for almost 100 years after the constitution and declaration if the "american values" you love to throw around existed.
3) I didn't say all Jews were Ortodox Jews, I just said the religious ones run that country
4) YOU ARE WRONG ABOUT INCOME TAXES. Stop believing everything Rush tells you.
5) Terrorists can be freedom fighters. George Washington was viewed as a terrorist and fought a war similar to what many "terrorist" groups are doing now.
6) I didn't forget who we liberated. I know significantly more about world history than you ever will know.
7) I am well aware Iraq has a democratically elected government, but it is a puppet government that can't even get its own military going after years of training. In WWII the US trained its soldiers in a matter of weeks, but the Iraqi's need years.
8) Oil is more expensive than it should be because of oil traders, but it is still cheaper than it should be in a fair market. You probably don't understand how pricing of oil works, but traders determine the price, based on supply and demand, but if the Arab countries wanted to they could get a ton more for their goods. Their dictators agree to keep the price low in exchange for the US protecting them from the masses.

There are your answers. Now you answer my questions about where your loyalty is and your view on a traitor from your country. I find it odd that a "friend" of the US seems to have an awful lot of spies caught spying on their "friend" the United States.

[boldruler]

:D

Unfortunately, WE AMERICANS tend to look at this horror show as a sporting event. I AM the WORST OFFENDER of what I just typed.

Many, many of the Sabras have had their entire familly (like myself) go up the chimneys of Aushwitz and Treblinka. This is DEADLY SERIOUS business to them.

My 19 year old neighbor in Caearea was killed three days ago. I am on my way to the Shiva. The funeral was in the TA military cemetery on Sunday.

Great it is deadly serious to them. Let them pay for it then. No more US tax dollars for them.

[Bold Brooklynite]

:D

Unfortunately, WE AMERICANS tend to look at this horror show as a sporting event. I AM the WORST OFFENDER of what I just typed.

Many, many of the Sabras have had their entire familly (like myself) go up the chimneys of Aushwitz and Treblinka. This is DEADLY SERIOUS business to them.

My 19 year old neighbor in Caearea was killed three days ago. I am on my way to the Shiva. The funeral was in the TA military cemetery on Sunday.
The America-haters could care less about the suffering of decent human beings.

"You're either with us ... or you're with the terrorists" ... and they've made it abundantly clear ... that they're with the terrorists.

God bless you ... and everyone you love, my friend.

[boldruler]

As you see, folks ...

... when you stand up to these guys ... they eventualy get so frustrated and emotional that they expose their true selves.

We're clearly dealing here with a bunch of America-haters ... who have no real ideas ... but whose every word, move, and reflex is controlled by a hatred for the country which has protected them and allowed them to live in security and freedom.

At some point ... it becomes useless to continue debate with them ... because they're not only beyond reason ... they're even beyond humiliation and shame.

So that takes all the fun out it. How much more could I have humiliated them? And yet their hatred makes them impervious to even knowing how utterly foolish they look.

Notice again, no answer to the question about loyalties and traitors. What a surprise. Once again, avoid the question. You are so full of it it is amazing. Did Rush or Sean teach you that yesterday afternoon? I love the attack on grammar and spelling on a chat site. That is hilarious. Some of us type quickly.

[Bold Brooklynite]

Great it is deadly serious to them. Let them pay for it then. No more US tax dollars for them.
Hey, bud ... I offered to reimburse you for the 45¢ this is costing you.

But you ran and hid from that one too ... didn't you?

[boldruler]

The America-haters could care less about the suffering of decent human beings.

"You're either with us ... or you're with the terrorists" ... and they've made it abundantly clear ... that they're with the terrorists.

God bless you ... and everyone you love, my friend.


That is my favorite argument. I am just going to guess you never spent a day in the military, just like Dick Cheney, Wolfowitz, Libby, but you love to say you are with us or against us, as long as I don't have to fight. COWARD.

[Bold Brooklynite]

Notice again, no answer to the question about loyalties and traitors. What a surprise. Once again, avoid the question. You are so full of it it is amazing. Did Rush or Sean teach you that yesterday afternoon? I love the attack on grammar and spelling on a chat site. That is hilarious. Some of us type quickly.
You seem to have an inordinate fear of radio entertainers.

No surprise ... since you're also scared witless by typed words which appear on your monitor.

WATCH OUT !!!




Heh-heh-heh ... I love to scare this guy.

[boldruler]

Hey, bud ... I offered to reimburse you for the 45¢ this is costing you.

But you ran and hid from that one too ... didn't you?

Why don't you reimburse all the americans their money? That would be about $100 Billion. Wow, I wonder if you could rebuild a town like New Orleans or provide better education or healthcare with that money.


You are so dumb, it isn't even funny. That is a nice house and drug habit you rush limbaugh supporters have built him. LOL.

[boldruler]

You seem to have an inordinate fear of radio entertainers.

No surprise ... since you're also scared witless by typed words which appear on your monitor.

WATCH OUT !!!




Heh-heh-heh ... I love to scare this guy.

WHERE IS MY ANSWER TO WHERE YOUR LOYALTIES REST AND YOUR VIEW ON TRAITORS LIKE JONATHAN POLLARD? I answered your comments point by point. WHERE IS YOUR ANSWER, TRAITOR?

[Bold Brooklynite]

Why don't you reimburse all the americans their money? That would be about $100 Billion. Wow, I wonder if you could rebuild a town like New Orleans or provide better education or healthcare with that money.


You are so dumb, it isn't even funny. That is a nice house and drug habit you rush limbaugh supporters have built him. LOL.
Still can't bring yourself to capitalize "American" can you?

You really need help ... you really should go see a competent psychiatrist ... and try to find out why you hate the hand that has fed and nurtured you.

Sick ... sick ... sick.

[boldruler]

You should change your name from bold brooklynite to bold tel aviv, because you clearly are no american.

[Bold Brooklynite]

I answered your comments point by point.
Can you repeat the answers?

Just copy and paste them ... so everyone can see them.

[boldruler]

Still can't bring yourself to capitalize "American" can you?

You really need help ... you really should go see a competent psychiatrist ... and try to find out why you hate the hand that has fed and nurtured you.

Sick ... sick ... sick.

You send me your e-mail in a private message and I will send you my op-ed piece that ran in Stars and Stripes, the US Military newspaper. Then you say that about me, coward. I actually care about my country and the people that fight for it, unlike traitors like you that talk a big game but do nothing.

YOU ARE A TRAITOR TO AMERICA.

[Bold Brooklynite]

You should change your name from bold brooklynite to bold tel aviv, because you clearly are no american.
That's American ... with a capital "A"

And Brooklyinite ... with a capital "B"

[boldruler]

Can you repeat the answers?

Just copy and paste them ... so everyone can see them.

Post #145. Do I need to put that in Hebrew for you? LOL.

[boldruler]

That's American ... with a capital "A"

And Brooklyinite ... with a capital "B"

And Traitor with a T. :eek: Because that is what you are.

[boldruler]

STILL NO ANSWER.

ARE YOUR LOYALTIES TO AMERICA OR ISRAEL, when their interests don't go hand in hand?

ARE YOU IN FAVOR OF FREEING AN ISRAELI SPY LIKE JONATHAN POLLARD, A TRAITOR TO AMERICA, like many israelis?


Mr Bold, or Traitor, or whatever your name is, seems to have a big mouth, but not on these questions. :eek:

[Bold Brooklynite]

STILL NO ANSWER.

ARE YOUR LOYALTIES TO AMERICA OR ISRAEL, when their interests don't go hand in hand?

ARE YOU IN FAVOR OF FREEING AN ISRAELI SPY LIKE JONATHAN POLLARD, A TRAITOR TO AMERICA, like many israelis?


Mr Bold, or Traitor, or whatever your name is, seems to have a big mouth, but not on these questions. :eek:
Sometimes ... when you say "May I have your attention?" ... although you usually don't say "May I" ...

... the answer is "No."

No ... you may not have my attention ... even if you type in all caps.

[boldruler]

Sometimes ... when you say "May I have your attention?" ... although you usually don't say "May I" ...

... the answer is "No."

No ... you may not have my attention ... even if you type in all caps.


Notice I answered questions to me, but a traitor and a coward like you, can't answer two simply questions.

ARE YOUR LOYALTIES TO AMERICA OR ISRAEL, when their interests don't go hand in hand?

ARE YOU IN FAVOR OF FREEING AN ISRAELI SPY LIKE JONATHAN POLLARD, A TRAITOR TO AMERICA, like many israelis?

What have I asked that 10x now, with no response?

When I asked why my tax dollars should pay for your countries military, you came up with a ridiculous answer, but after 20x you answered it. This time, no answer at all.

No surprise. YOU ARE A TRAITOR. The truth comes out. Your allegiance is obviously to another country. Very sad. Please don't comment on my country, the greatest country in the world, the United States of America, any longer. You really aren't an American.

[Bold Brooklynite]

Notice I answered questions to me, but a traitor and a coward like you, can't answer two simply questions.

ARE YOUR LOYALTIES TO AMERICA OR ISRAEL, when their interests don't go hand in hand?

ARE YOU IN FAVOR OF FREEING AN ISRAELI SPY LIKE JONATHAN POLLARD, A TRAITOR TO AMERICA, like many israelis?


No surprise. YOU ARE A TRAITOR. The truth comes out. Your allegiance is obviously to another country. Very sad. Please don't comment on my country, the greatest country in the world, the United States of America, any longer. You really aren't an American.
So ... as always ... it gets personal with you and your ilk.

You have no ideas ... no facts ... no ability to form cogent thoughts ... and no writing skills ... other than to put everything in boldface or all caps ...

... so .. all you're left with are name-calling and personal attacks.

You revealed yourself quite a few posts ago ... we don't need any more posts from you to reinforce what we already know.

[boldruler]

So ... as always ... it gets personal with you and your ilk.

You have no ideas ... no facts ... no ability to form cogent thoughts ... and no writing skills ... other than to put everything in boldface or all caps ...

... so .. all you're left with are name-calling and personal attacks.

You revealed yourself quite a few posts ago ... we don't need any more posts from you to reinforce what we already know.


Where are your answers? They are two simple questions. How hard is it for you to answer them? Just admit you are not a real American. That your first allegiance is to another country, just like your hero Jonathan Pollard. I bet Marc Rich was another hero of yours.

You love to go attacking us Real Americans and you aren't even one. Enough with you traitors. I bet if you were alive in 1776 you would have sided with the British and tried to hedge your bet with the Americans. I am glad you aren't a real American, we don't like cowards in our country.

The United States of America is the land of the free and home of the brave, not the coward with allegiance to another country.

With the new world we live in US and Israeli interest often clash. To paraphrase you favorite saying, "You are either an american or not an american and you are with us or against us." You seem to be against us.

[SentToStud]

I thought this was a fair and balanced article that summarizes where American tax dollars are going as well as offering something other than an uber-Zionist view of the MidEast.


by Jonathan Cook

July 22, 2006



The general surprise that Lebanese civilians are taking the brunt of Israel's onslaught – and the unwillingness in some quarters of the media to report the fact – reflects a poor understanding of Israel's historical use of violence. Since its birth six decades ago, Israel has always been officially "going after the terrorists," but its actions have invariably harmed civilians in an indiscriminate manner.



The roll call of dishonor is long indeed, but its highlights include: the massacre of some 200 civilians in Tantura, as well as large-scale massacres in at least a dozen other Palestinian villages, during the 1948 war that established Israel; Ariel Sharon's attack on the village of Qibya in 1953 that killed 70 innocent Palestinians; the Kfar Qassem massacre inside Israel when 49 farm workers were gunned down at an improvised army checkpoint; a massacre in the same year in the refugee camp of Khan Yunis, in Gaza, in which more than 250 civilians were killed; attacks on dozens of Palestinian, Egyptian and Syrian villages during the 1967 war; the killing of six unarmed Arab citizens of Israel in 1976; the massacre of hundreds of Palestinian civilians in the Lebanese refugee camps of Sabra and Shatilla in 1982; the unremitting use of lethal force by the army against unarmed Palestinians, often women and children, during the first intifada of 1987-93; the aerial bombardment of Qana in south Lebanon in 1996 that killed more than 100 civilians; and the endless "collateral damage" of Palestinian civilians during the second intifada, including a half-ton bomb that killed a husband and wide and their seven children a week ago.



The true reasons for these deaths are concealed from credulous observers by Israel's use of Orwellian language. When it says it is destroying the "infrastructure of terror," Israel means it is crushing all Arab resistance to its territorial ambitions in the region. The "infrastructure" includes most Arab men, women and children because they continue to support – against Israel's wishes – their peoples' rights to self-determination without interference from the Israeli army.



In this sense, and others, there is very little difference between what Israel is doing in Gaza to overturn the democratic wishes of the Palestinian electorate and what it is doing in Lebanon to smash any hopes of a democratic future for its northern neighbor. In Gaza, it wants Hamas destroyed because Hamas is prepared to counter Israel's unilateral policies with its own unilateral agenda; and in Lebanon, Israel wants Hezbollah obliterated because it is the only force capable, possibly, of preventing a repeat of Israel's long invasion and occupation of the 1980s and 1990s.



By rounding up the Palestinian cabinet, Israel is not destroying terror, it is clipping the political wings of Hamas, those in its leadership who are quickly learning the arts of government and searching for a space in which they can negotiate with Israel. Through its rejectionist behavior, Israel is only confirming the doubts of those in the Hamas military wing who argue Israel always acts in bad faith.



Similarly in Lebanon, Israel is holding Hezbollah less to account with its attacks than the Lebanese people and their government, despite the latter's transparently shaky grip on the country. Israel's military strikes polarize opinion in Lebanon, weaken Fouad Siniora and his ministers, and threaten to push Lebanon over the brink into another civil war.



Israel is keen to talk about "changing the balance of power" in Gaza and Lebanon, implying that it is trying to strengthen the "democrats" against the "terrorists." But this impression is entirely false. Israeli actions are destroying what little balance of power exists in Gaza and Lebanon so that the two areas become ungovernable.



In Gaza, Israel has been engineering a debilitating struggle for power between Fatah and Hamas, while in Lebanon whatever hollow shell of national unity has existed till now is in danger of cracking under the strain of the Israeli onslaught.



Superficially at least, this seems self-destructive behavior on Israel's part, given that it has also been striving to detect the fingerprints of outside actors in Gaza and Lebanon.



In the case of Gaza, Israel points to Syria as a safe haven for the exiled Hamas leader Khaled Meshal, to Hezbollah and Iran as sponsors of Hamas "terror" and even to a new al-Qaeda presence. In the case of Lebanon, Israel additionally identifies the strong ties between Hezbollah and Damascus and Tehran.



So why would Israel want Lebanon and Gaza to be ravaged by factional fighting of the kind that might make them more vulnerable to this kind of unwelcome interference from outside?



A history lesson or two helps clarify Israel's reasoning.



In the occupied Palestinian territories, Hamas was born during the upheavals of the first intifada and encouraged by Israel as a counterweight to the unifying secular Palestinian nationalism of Yasser Arafat.



In Lebanon, the Shi'ite militia Hezbollah was the inevitable byproduct of Israel's occupation of the south and its establishment of a mostly Christian proxy militia, the South Lebanon Army, against the Muslim majority.



In both cases it is clear Israel hoped that, by Islamizing its opponents in these regional conflicts, it would delegitimize them in the eyes of Western allies and that it could cultivate sectarianism as a way to further weaken the social cohesiveness of its neighbors.



Recently Israel has encouraged the slide deeper into Islamic extremism through its policies of unilateralism and its refusal to negotiate.



The same set of policies is being continued now in the Palestinian territories and Lebanon: the shattering of these two societies will only deepen the trend toward radical Islam. Islamic movements not only offer the best hope of local resistance to Israel for these weakened societies but they also offer a parallel social infrastructure of health care and welfare services as state institutions collapse.



There is immediate advantage for Israel in this outcome. With secular society crushed and Islamic resistance movements filling the void, Israel will be able to reinforce the impression of many in the West that Israel is on the front line of global "war of terror" being waged by a single implacable enemy, Islam. Israel's ability to persuade the world that this war is being waged against the whole "civilized" Judeo-Christian West will be made that bit easier.



As a result, Israel may be able to drag its paymaster, the United States, deeper into the mire of the Middle East as a junior partner rather than as an honest broker, giving Israel cover while it carves up yet more Palestinian land for annexation, puts further pressure on the Palestinians to leave their homeland, and destabilizes its regional enemies so that they are powerless to offer protest or resistance.



For some time President Bush has found himself in no position to criticize Israeli actions when Tel Aviv claims to be doing no more to the Palestinians than the US is doing to the Iraqis. If the US allows itself to be handcuffed to Israel's even more extreme version of the "war on terror," the consequences will be dire not just for the Palestinians or the region, but for all of us.

[Bold Brooklynite]

Where are your answers? They are two simple questions. How hard is it for you to answer them? Just admit you are not a real American. That your first allegiance is to another country, just like your hero Jonathan Pollard. I bet Marc Rich was another hero of yours.

You love to go attacking us Real Americans and you aren't even one. Enough with you traitors. I bet if you were alive in 1776 you would have sided with the British and tried to hedge your bet with the Americans. I am glad you aren't a real American, we don't like cowards in our country.

The United States of America is the land of the free and home of the brave, not the coward with allegiance to another country.

With the new world we live in US and Israeli interest often clash. To paraphrase you favorite saying, "You are either an american or not an american and you are with us or against us." You seem to be against us.
Being the wonderful, kind person that I am ... I'm always willing to help the unfortunate among us.

You have a great deal of difficulty with reading comprehension ... and a very poor memory ... so I'll do the best I can to assist you.

At 8:47pm last night ... that's about 18 hours ago ... I posted extensive details about how ignorant and self-humiliating your posts were (Post #104 on this thread).

At 9:01pm ... you posted again ... but completely avoided any response to what I had posted ... but ... you did say you would respond point-by-point (Post #106).

But ... at 9:27pm ... I told you ... and the world ... right to your face ... that you neither had the fortitude, knowledge, or skills to reply (Post #109). And ... as always ... I was right ... in the nearly 18 hours since ... you haven't replied.

Perhaps you thought everyone else forgot ... or more likely ... given your poor cerebral functions ... you forgot.

But again ... just to show you what a nice guy I am ... I'll repost it now ... and give you one more chance. Do you understand that? You're supposed to read the following words ... and respond to them point-by-point ... just as you said you would 18 hours ago. The post was originally addressed to Dalakhani ... but the person who is referred to as "your boy" is you. Do you really understand that? [Why am I still convinced that he doesn't?]

OK ... here goes ...

"You seem to think that your boy is doing well ... so .. let's look at his record so far on this thread ---

• Says people in small countries are sub-human ... gets slapped down.
• Thinks the Star of David is a religious symbol ... gets humiliated.
• Thinks a country's success depends on "oil" and "minerals" ... another slapdown.
• Doesn't know American values are stated in the Declaration and Constitution ... another humiliation.
• Confronts Dixie ... gets b-slapped.
• Doesn't know the Israeli war is part of the global war on terror ... blatant ignorance.
• Thinks all Israelis are orthodox Jews ... at least he was 10% right.
• Quotes Pat Buchanan ... at least it wasn't David Duke.
• Doesn't know who pays income taxes ... gets slapped down again.
• Thinks terrorists are "freedom fighters" ... still another slapdown.
• Forgot we liberated France, Belgium, and China ... hits the canvas more than Frazier vs. Foreman.
• Doesn't know Iraq has a democratically elected government ... more public ignorance.
• Says oil is "expensive" then says oil is "cheap" ... more self-humiliation.

Hmmm ... if the real Bold Ruler did as well as your boy ... he'd have been gelded and shipped to Nebraska."

Now ... this is your big chance to live up to what you said and respond point-by-point. Do you understand that? Good ... ready ... set .................... GO !!!

[boldruler]

Excellent article.

[boldruler]

Being the wonderful, kind person that I am ... I'm always willing to help the unfortunate among us.

You have a great deal of difficulty with reading comprehension ... and a very poor memory ... so I'll do the best I can to assist you.

At 8:47pm last night ... that's about 18 hours ago ... I posted extensive details about how ignorant and self-humiliating your posts were (Post #104 on this thread).

At 9:01pm ... you posted again ... but completely avoided any response to what I had posted ... but ... you did say you would respond point-by-point (Post #106).

But ... at 9:27pm ... I told you ... and the world ... right to your face ... that you neither had the fortitude, knowledge, or skills to reply (Post #109). And ... as always ... I was right ... in the nearly 18 hours since ... you haven't replied.

Perhaps you thought everyone else forgot ... or more likely ... given your poor cerebral functions ... you forgot.

But again ... just to show you what a nice guy I am ... I'll repost it now ... and give you one more chance. Do you understand that? You're supposed to read the following words ... and respond to them point-by-point ... just as you said you would 18 hours ago. The post was originally addressed to Dalakhani ... but the person who is referred to as "your boy" is you. Do you really understand that? [Why am I still convinced that he doesn't?]

OK ... here goes ...

"You seem to think that your boy is doing well ... so .. let's look at his record so far on this thread ---

• Says people in small countries are sub-human ... gets slapped down.
• Thinks the Star of David is a religious symbol ... gets humiliated.
• Thinks a country's success depends on "oil" and "minerals" ... another slapdown.
• Doesn't know American values are stated in the Declaration and Constitution ... another humiliation.
• Confronts Dixie ... gets b-slapped.
• Doesn't know the Israeli war is part of the global war on terror ... blatant ignorance.
• Thinks all Israelis are orthodox Jews ... at least he was 10% right.
• Quotes Pat Buchanan ... at least it wasn't David Duke.
• Doesn't know who pays income taxes ... gets slapped down again.
• Thinks terrorists are "freedom fighters" ... still another slapdown.
• Forgot we liberated France, Belgium, and China ... hits the canvas more than Frazier vs. Foreman.
• Doesn't know Iraq has a democratically elected government ... more public ignorance.
• Says oil is "expensive" then says oil is "cheap" ... more self-humiliation.

Hmmm ... if the real Bold Ruler did as well as your boy ... he'd have been gelded and shipped to Nebraska."

Now ... this is your big chance to live up to what you said and respond point-by-point. Do you understand that? Good ... ready ... set .................... GO !!!

I already did in post #145. Do you need that in hebrew? :eek: Here the responses are. WHERE IS YOUR ANSWER TO THE TWO QUESTIONS? 1) ARE YOUR LOYALTIES TO AMERICA OR ISRAEL, when their interests don't go hand in hand?

2) ARE YOU IN FAVOR OF FREEING AN ISRAELI SPY LIKE JONATHAN POLLARD, A TRAITOR TO AMERICA, like many israelis?


1) I said the countries are insignifcant, no mention of the people. They are insignificant, nothing would change if they were there or weren't there.
2) American Values are not stated in the Constitution or Declaration. You are a simple minded idiot. There is no such thing as American Values. Why were there slaves and women with no rights for almost 100 years after the constitution and declaration if the "american values" you love to throw around existed.
3) I didn't say all Jews were Ortodox Jews, I just said the religious ones run that country
4) YOU ARE WRONG ABOUT INCOME TAXES. Stop believing everything Rush tells you.
5) Terrorists can be freedom fighters. George Washington was viewed as a terrorist and fought a war similar to what many "terrorist" groups are doing now.
6) I didn't forget who we liberated. I know significantly more about world history than you ever will know.
7) I am well aware Iraq has a democratically elected government, but it is a puppet government that can't even get its own military going after years of training. In WWII the US trained its soldiers in a matter of weeks, but the Iraqi's need years.
8) Oil is more expensive than it should be because of oil traders, but it is still cheaper than it should be in a fair market. You probably don't understand how pricing of oil works, but traders determine the price, based on supply and demand, but if the Arab countries wanted to they could get a ton more for their goods. Their dictators agree to keep the price low in exchange for the US protecting them from the masses.

There are your answers. Now you answer my questions about where your loyalty is and your view on a traitor from your country. I find it odd that a "friend" of the US seems to have an awful lot of spies caught spying on their "friend" the United States.

[Rupert Pupkin]

I thought this was a fair and balanced article that summarizes where American tax dollars are going as well as offering something other than an uber-Zionist view of the MidEast.


by Jonathan Cook

July 22, 2006



The general surprise that Lebanese civilians are taking the brunt of Israel's onslaught – and the unwillingness in some quarters of the media to report the fact – reflects a poor understanding of Israel's historical use of violence. Since its birth six decades ago, Israel has always been officially "going after the terrorists," but its actions have invariably harmed civilians in an indiscriminate manner.



The roll call of dishonor is long indeed, but its highlights include: the massacre of some 200 civilians in Tantura, as well as large-scale massacres in at least a dozen other Palestinian villages, during the 1948 war that established Israel; Ariel Sharon's attack on the village of Qibya in 1953 that killed 70 innocent Palestinians; the Kfar Qassem massacre inside Israel when 49 farm workers were gunned down at an improvised army checkpoint; a massacre in the same year in the refugee camp of Khan Yunis, in Gaza, in which more than 250 civilians were killed; attacks on dozens of Palestinian, Egyptian and Syrian villages during the 1967 war; the killing of six unarmed Arab citizens of Israel in 1976; the massacre of hundreds of Palestinian civilians in the Lebanese refugee camps of Sabra and Shatilla in 1982; the unremitting use of lethal force by the army against unarmed Palestinians, often women and children, during the first intifada of 1987-93; the aerial bombardment of Qana in south Lebanon in 1996 that killed more than 100 civilians; and the endless "collateral damage" of Palestinian civilians during the second intifada, including a half-ton bomb that killed a husband and wide and their seven children a week ago.



The true reasons for these deaths are concealed from credulous observers by Israel's use of Orwellian language. When it says it is destroying the "infrastructure of terror," Israel means it is crushing all Arab resistance to its territorial ambitions in the region. The "infrastructure" includes most Arab men, women and children because they continue to support – against Israel's wishes – their peoples' rights to self-determination without interference from the Israeli army.



In this sense, and others, there is very little difference between what Israel is doing in Gaza to overturn the democratic wishes of the Palestinian electorate and what it is doing in Lebanon to smash any hopes of a democratic future for its northern neighbor. In Gaza, it wants Hamas destroyed because Hamas is prepared to counter Israel's unilateral policies with its own unilateral agenda; and in Lebanon, Israel wants Hezbollah obliterated because it is the only force capable, possibly, of preventing a repeat of Israel's long invasion and occupation of the 1980s and 1990s.



By rounding up the Palestinian cabinet, Israel is not destroying terror, it is clipping the political wings of Hamas, those in its leadership who are quickly learning the arts of government and searching for a space in which they can negotiate with Israel. Through its rejectionist behavior, Israel is only confirming the doubts of those in the Hamas military wing who argue Israel always acts in bad faith.



Similarly in Lebanon, Israel is holding Hezbollah less to account with its attacks than the Lebanese people and their government, despite the latter's transparently shaky grip on the country. Israel's military strikes polarize opinion in Lebanon, weaken Fouad Siniora and his ministers, and threaten to push Lebanon over the brink into another civil war.



Israel is keen to talk about "changing the balance of power" in Gaza and Lebanon, implying that it is trying to strengthen the "democrats" against the "terrorists." But this impression is entirely false. Israeli actions are destroying what little balance of power exists in Gaza and Lebanon so that the two areas become ungovernable.



In Gaza, Israel has been engineering a debilitating struggle for power between Fatah and Hamas, while in Lebanon whatever hollow shell of national unity has existed till now is in danger of cracking under the strain of the Israeli onslaught.



Superficially at least, this seems self-destructive behavior on Israel's part, given that it has also been striving to detect the fingerprints of outside actors in Gaza and Lebanon.



In the case of Gaza, Israel points to Syria as a safe haven for the exiled Hamas leader Khaled Meshal, to Hezbollah and Iran as sponsors of Hamas "terror" and even to a new al-Qaeda presence. In the case of Lebanon, Israel additionally identifies the strong ties between Hezbollah and Damascus and Tehran.



So why would Israel want Lebanon and Gaza to be ravaged by factional fighting of the kind that might make them more vulnerable to this kind of unwelcome interference from outside?



A history lesson or two helps clarify Israel's reasoning.



In the occupied Palestinian territories, Hamas was born during the upheavals of the first intifada and encouraged by Israel as a counterweight to the unifying secular Palestinian nationalism of Yasser Arafat.



In Lebanon, the Shi'ite militia Hezbollah was the inevitable byproduct of Israel's occupation of the south and its establishment of a mostly Christian proxy militia, the South Lebanon Army, against the Muslim majority.



In both cases it is clear Israel hoped that, by Islamizing its opponents in these regional conflicts, it would delegitimize them in the eyes of Western allies and that it could cultivate sectarianism as a way to further weaken the social cohesiveness of its neighbors.



Recently Israel has encouraged the slide deeper into Islamic extremism through its policies of unilateralism and its refusal to negotiate.



The same set of policies is being continued now in the Palestinian territories and Lebanon: the shattering of these two societies will only deepen the trend toward radical Islam. Islamic movements not only offer the best hope of local resistance to Israel for these weakened societies but they also offer a parallel social infrastructure of health care and welfare services as state institutions collapse.



There is immediate advantage for Israel in this outcome. With secular society crushed and Islamic resistance movements filling the void, Israel will be able to reinforce the impression of many in the West that Israel is on the front line of global "war of terror" being waged by a single implacable enemy, Islam. Israel's ability to persuade the world that this war is being waged against the whole "civilized" Judeo-Christian West will be made that bit easier.



As a result, Israel may be able to drag its paymaster, the United States, deeper into the mire of the Middle East as a junior partner rather than as an honest broker, giving Israel cover while it carves up yet more Palestinian land for annexation, puts further pressure on the Palestinians to leave their homeland, and destabilizes its regional enemies so that they are powerless to offer protest or resistance.



For some time President Bush has found himself in no position to criticize Israeli actions when Tel Aviv claims to be doing no more to the Palestinians than the US is doing to the Iraqis. If the US allows itself to be handcuffed to Israel's even more extreme version of the "war on terror," the consequences will be dire not just for the Palestinians or the region, but for all of us.
That was a fair and balanced article? You have to be joking. All the article did was bash Israel, yet the article was not critical of Hamas or Hezbollah at all. How is that fair and balanced?
If you want to agree with the article, that is fine. But don't tell me that the article is fair and balanced. Fox News and CNN are 1000x more fair and balanced than that article. At least they give you both sides of the story. In addition, they will have guests from both sides so you get to hear the point of view from both sides.

[ArlJim78]

I thought this was a fair and balanced article that summarizes where American tax dollars are going as well as offering something other than an uber-Zionist view of the MidEast.


by Jonathan Cook

July 22, 2006



The general surprise that Lebanese civilians are taking the brunt of Israel's onslaught – and the unwillingness in some quarters of the media to report the fact – reflects a poor understanding of Israel's historical use of violence. Since its birth six decades ago, Israel has always been officially "going after the terrorists," but its actions have invariably harmed civilians in an indiscriminate
Well he lives and writes based out of Nazereth. His viewpoint seems hardly balanced , but I'm reading a few of his other articles.

Here is his website: http://www.jkcook.net/

[boldruler]

Bold Brooklynite can't seem to answer these two questions. One last time

1) ARE YOUR LOYALTIES TO AMERICA OR ISRAEL, when their interests don't go hand in hand?

2) ARE YOU IN FAVOR OF FREEING AN ISRAELI SPY LIKE JONATHAN POLLARD, A TRAITOR TO AMERICA, like many israelis?


Answer please, in english, not hebrew. :eek:

[boldruler]

Pretty silent for a guy who calls himself Bold Brooklynite. :eek:

[SentToStud]

...what really happens in and gets reported out of Gaza....

One early and easy victory for Israel in Gaza has been in its battle to manage the news. Israel's invasion is a very private war against Gaza's population, to which only invited guests -- the representatives of our major media outlets --are being given access....

The restrictions on who can report and what they can tell us explain in part why more than a fortnight after an Israeli soldier was captured, almost every Western reporter is still referring to him as "kidnapped"; why the destruction of vital civilian infrastructure such as Gaza's only power plant is described as "pressure" rather than what it is -- collective punishment, a violation of international law and a war crime; and why the deaths of large numbers of Palestinians, civilians and militants, in the current attacks are receiving far less coverage than the deaths of the two soldiers enforcing the occupation that gave Israel the pretext to launch its invasion.

Gaza -- a giant open-air prison -- could not offer a more perfect environment for an occupier wanting to manage the news. Israel controls the borders and can decide who is allowed in and who is refused access. Freedom of the press is meaningless on these terms.

Israel developed its own "embedding" strategy during the disengagement from Gaza last year. Only journalists from the big news organisations were allowed into the Strip, on special army buses that drove straight to the settlements. Those without accreditation from the main media organisations, and those who had upset Israel with their previous reports, had little hope of gaining entry. Disfavoured journalists were doubtless supposed to take note for next time, and change the tone of their coverage.

The big media organisations have no interest in pointing out why they have special access to Gaza and at what price such privileges were bought...

Israel's system of embedding operates at two levels: it ensures that many potential journalists are not in a position to report from Gaza; and then it imposes a range of pressures on those journalists who are there.

When Israel withdrew its settlers and soldiers from Gaza last August, the windfall was that it gained absolute control over who was allowed in and out of the tiny sliver of land on the Mediterranean coast. The result: just as Palestinians find it all but impossible to get out of Gaza, foreigners find it nearly as difficult to get in.

The hermetic sealing off of Gaza follows a series of steps taken by Israel in the past few years to discourage foreigners from venturing into places where its soldiers prefer to go about their business unobserved.

In late 2002 and 2003 the Israeli army killed two peace activists with the International Solidarity Movement, Tom Hurndall and Rachel Corrie. It was a very effective deterrent to other activists -- as well as freelance journalists who might be mistaken for activists -- considering living in the occupied territories.

Foreigners stopped "embedding" themselves in Palestinian areas, and in consequence there was a rapid loss of the Internet diaries of life under occupation and eyewitness accounts that were creating a fledgling but useful "alternative journalism".

Since then Israel has been on the lookout for anyone at its borders whom it suspects of belonging to peace organisations or being recruited to work in Palestinian organisations. Non-Israelis are held for lengthy questioning and usually deported if Israel suspects them of planning to enter the occupied territories, whether their purposes are legitimate or not.

As a result, the West Bank and Gaza are now sorely deprived of the young idealists and hopeful journalists who once travelled around the occupied territories.

Israel has claimed that its measures are designed to protect these individuals and its own soldiers from unnecessary and dangerous confrontations. But in practice, Israel has ensured that independent witnesses -- including those that were once able to describe at first hand and in their many native tongues the horrors being inflicted on the Palestinians -- are now largely absent from the occupied territories.

Instead "professional" reporters, based in Israel, venture into these areas only to report after the event, when the best they can hope to achieve is to present two conflicting narratives: the Israeli official version and Palestinian eyewitness accounts.

Since the disengagement, the process of isolating Gaza has intensified, ensuring that a far narrower range of voices are being heard -- in practice, only those of professional journalists who have the sensitivities of their news desks back home and their careers to worry about.

With an electronic fence surrounding Gaza on three sides, and the sea on the fourth, the only way into the Strip is through one of several crossing points controlled by the army. Where once journalists could freely roam around the occupied territories, reporting things as they saw them, they are now required to jump through several hoops before they are allowed to cross into Gaza.

So how does Israel's version of embedding work?

First, to get into Gaza a journalist must be in possession of a press card issued by the Israeli Government Press Office (GPO). All other journalist cards -- even international ones -- are worthless in the eyes of the Israeli government.

To be eligible for a GPO card, applicants must have accreditation with a recognised media organisation. Freelance reporters and photographers are considered to be impostors unless they can prove that they have an assignment from just such an accredited organisation.

The problems for freelance journalists are twofold. First, Israel decides which organisations are accredited and is likely to reject any "alternative" media that has been too critical of Israel in the past.

And second, Israel makes it impossible for freelancers to do in Gaza what they would do in any other conflict zone: head off with an open mind to see what is happening on the ground. Now, the freelance journalist must have a specific assignment in mind, and have an agreement in advance with a media organisation to cover that assignment in its name.

These conditions severely limit the freedom of freelance reporters and photographers to find stories that the main media organisations have overlooked. In practice, if a freelance journalist can get such an assignment (in itself a difficult task), it is likely to be for one of the stories the news desk thousands of miles away considers to be important: that is, the same stories the rest of the media pack are already pursuing. Innovation and difference of perspective are excluded from the outset.

Those journalists who do manage to gain a GPO card then have to jump through a second hoop: they must sign a "waiver" form, exonerating Israel of all responsibility if they are injured while in the Gaza Strip, including from the actions of the Israeli army.

The effect of the waiver is to impose a large financial burden on freelance journalists. While media organisations provide their staff with war insurance, an armoured car, and a flak jacket and helmet, they do not feel the same obligation towards freelancers, even those on assignment for them.

This leaves freelance reporters and photographers in Gaza in an unenviable position: either they protect themselves in the Strip at a huge personal cost they are unlikely ever to recoup from their reporting, or they risk injury for which no one can be held accountable and made to pay.

Even if it can be proven that an Israeli soldier took a malicious shot of the kind that in the past killed filmmaker James Miller and UN official Iain Hook and destroyed most of face of activist Brian Avery, freelance journalists and their families will not be entitled to a penny of compensation.

It can be assumed that this measure alone has been a serious deterrence for many freelance journalists who might otherwise have considered making a name for themselves by reporting from the Gazan frontline.

And then there is the third and most problematic hoop of all. Reporters who receive a GPO card must agree to submit any reports that touch on "defence and security" matters to Israel's military censor. Although in practice few Western reporters refer to the censor, the knowledge that they are breaking the terms of their agreement -- and could have their privileges withdrawn -- is intended to encourage "self- restraint" on their part.

As long as the journalists' reports don't attract too much attention from the Israeli authorities, this term of their contract with the army is unlikely to be enforced. If they keep their heads down, and stay within the pack, there is no danger they will be "picked off". By contrast, distinctiveness and daring from journalists is a recipe for incurring the wrath of the Israeli Press Office and complaints to the reporters' editors.

The most shocking aspect to this embedding of the media with the Israeli army is the silence from the journalists themselves, from their employers and from their professional federations. None has tried to challenge the restrictions imposed by Israel on those wishing to report from the occupied territories.

The generally dismal standard of reporting during the invasion of Gaza has proven just how much a cosy club of well-paid journalists are being protected by these arrangements and what little incentive they have to rock the boat with either Israel or their news editors. As a result, Israel's language and agenda have come to dominate the coverage.

Israel's invasion of Gaza is not the end of this story of media complicity. As the West Bank wall nears completion, Israel's reach in managing the news will soon extend there too. And with it, doubtless, we will have yet more craven reporting from our embedded media

[boldruler]

Bold Brooklynite can't seem to answer these two questions. One last time

1) ARE YOUR LOYALTIES TO AMERICA OR ISRAEL, when their interests don't go hand in hand?

2) ARE YOU IN FAVOR OF FREEING AN ISRAELI SPY LIKE JONATHAN POLLARD, A TRAITOR TO AMERICA, like many israelis?


Answer please, in english, not hebrew. :eek:

Silence to these questions can only mean one thing. Bold Brooklynite, the guy ripping us Real Americans, isn't even a real american and he favors releasing a traitor to our country. Pathetic. He has avoided these questions like the COWARD that he is.

[Bold Brooklynite]

I already did in post #145. Do you need that in hebrew? :eek: Here the responses are. WHERE IS YOUR ANSWER TO THE TWO QUESTIONS? 1) ARE YOUR LOYALTIES TO AMERICA OR ISRAEL, when their interests don't go hand in hand?

2) ARE YOU IN FAVOR OF FREEING AN ISRAELI SPY LIKE JONATHAN POLLARD, A TRAITOR TO AMERICA, like many israelis?


1) I said the countries are insignifcant, no mention of the people. They are insignificant, nothing would change if they were there or weren't there.
2) American Values are not stated in the Constitution or Declaration. You are a simple minded idiot. There is no such thing as American Values. Why were there slaves and women with no rights for almost 100 years after the constitution and declaration if the "american values" you love to throw around existed.
3) I didn't say all Jews were Ortodox Jews, I just said the religious ones run that country
4) YOU ARE WRONG ABOUT INCOME TAXES. Stop believing everything Rush tells you.
5) Terrorists can be freedom fighters. George Washington was viewed as a terrorist and fought a war similar to what many "terrorist" groups are doing now.
6) I didn't forget who we liberated. I know significantly more about world history than you ever will know.
7) I am well aware Iraq has a democratically elected government, but it is a puppet government that can't even get its own military going after years of training. In WWII the US trained its soldiers in a matter of weeks, but the Iraqi's need years.
8) Oil is more expensive than it should be because of oil traders, but it is still cheaper than it should be in a fair market. You probably don't understand how pricing of oil works, but traders determine the price, based on supply and demand, but if the Arab countries wanted to they could get a ton more for their goods. Their dictators agree to keep the price low in exchange for the US protecting them from the masses.

There are your answers. Now you answer my questions about where your loyalty is and your view on a traitor from your country. I find it odd that a "friend" of the US seems to have an awful lot of spies caught spying on their "friend" the United States.
Ahhh ... I've just returned from another sumptuous prandial experience ... courtesy of Mrs. Brooklynite ...

... and I'm happily restored to my robust self.

Now where were we? Oh ... I see that our intellectually challenged and memory deprived friend pretended to do a point-by-point response ... but came up woefully short.

Hello, sir ... there were 13 points in my post ... and you made a weak effort at only 8. Even if they were good responses ... which I can assure you they weren't ... that would only get you a 61 ... which is barely a "D."

Please complete your chores ... or you don't get that nice big plate of chocolate chip ice cream.

[boldruler]

Ahhh ... I've just returned from another sumptuous prandial experience ... courtesy of Mrs. Brooklynite ...

... and I'm happily restored to my robust self.

Now where were we? Oh ... I see that our intellectually challenged and memory deprived friend pretended to do a point-by-point response ... but came up woefully short.

Hello, sir ... there were 13 points in my post ... and you made a weak effort at only 8. Even if they were good responses ... which I can assure you they weren't ... that would only get you a 61 ... which is barely a "D."

Please complete your chores ... or you don't get that nice big plate of chocolate chip ice cream.

Fine for the sake of argument you were right on those other points. Now it is your turn, Why can't you answer two simple little questions? Is it because we already know the real answer and it is obvious your allegiance is to Israel. If so, please DON'T EVER CRITICIZE US REAL AMERICANS. IT IS OUR GOVERNMENT, NOT YOUR GOVERNMENT, and we can say whatever we want. Your country is in the Middle East, not here in the greatest country in the world. God Bless America.

[SentToStud]

Fine for the sake of argument you were right on those other points. Now it is your turn, Why can't you answer two simple little questions? Is it because we already know the real answer and it is obvious your allegiance is to Israel. If so, please DON'T EVER CRITICIZE US REAL AMERICANS. IT IS OUR GOVERNMENT, NOT YOUR GOVERNMENT, and we can say whatever we want. Your country is in the Middle East, not here in the greatest country in the world. God Bless America.

Him answer?

Nah... Can't and won't.

He's still in shock that some people see the world for what it is. Not support Israel? Oh my, we all must be jewish haters. The simple fact is Israel does not want a free democratic nation in Lebanon as they do not want it in Gaza. This would disrupt the Israeli myth of "instability in the region" upon which their receipt of billions in U.S. aid is based. Slow and sure, world sentiment is turning as people everywhere are disabused of these misconceptions.

[boldruler]

Him answer?

Nah... Can't and won't.

He's still in shock that some people see the world for what it is. Not support Israel? Oh my, we all must be jewish haters. The simple fact is Israel does not want a free democratic nation in Lebanon as they do not want it in Gaza. This would disrupt the Israeli myth of "instability in the region" upon which their receipt of billions in U.S. aid is based. Slow and sure, world sentiment is turning as people everywhere are disabused of these misconceptions.

Supporting Israel is just a liability to the US with the rest of the world. We get nothing out of it.

Bold Brooklynite is one of those dangerous people that have an allegiance to another country. I don't want any Arabs or Jews having dual citizenship. The interests of these groups often puts the US at risk. I am all for Arab Americans or Jewish Americans, just not those that seem to make American their number 2 priority. I have the same problem with these Mexican protesters and any other group, Irish, Italian, German, that doesn't have an allegiance to this country first. It just seems this is a huge problem with Jewish people because they view God and Israel as the same thing thus putting it before America. Can't have that.

[Bold Brooklynite]

Fine for the sake of argument you were right on those other points. Now it is your turn, Why can't you answer two simple little questions? Is it because we already know the real answer and it is obvious your allegiance is to Israel. If so, please DON'T EVER CRITICIZE US REAL AMERICANS. IT IS OUR GOVERNMENT, NOT YOUR GOVERNMENT, and we can say whatever we want. Your country is in the Middle East, not here in the greatest country in the world. God Bless America.
I'll answer your questions ... but first ...

... I'll answer your answers ...

1) I said the countries are insignifcant, no mention of the people. They are insignificant, nothing would change if they were there or weren't there. So ... if Israel is so insignificant ... and it wouldn't matter if it vanished ... why is the entire Arab world in an uproar over it's existence?

2) American Values are not stated in the Constitution or Declaration. You are a simple minded idiot. There is no such thing as American Values. Why were there slaves and women with no rights for almost 100 years after the constitution and declaration if the "american values" you love to throw around existed. Sorry ... but I always thought that "All men are created equal and are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights" was a statement of values. Ooops ... silly me. As to slavery ... you're once again ... and how many times is this going to happen? ... confusing objectives and strategies. The objective was to eliminate slavery and the strategy was to allow it for a time in order to get the Union established ... then eliminate it. And guess what ... the strategy worked! Slavery was eliminated 143 years ago ... or hadn't you heard?

3) I didn't say all Jews were Ortodox Jews, I just said the religious ones run that country And you were wrong in both instances.

4) YOU ARE WRONG ABOUT INCOME TAXES. Stop believing everything Rush tells you. Again ... you say that my income tax distribution statistics are incorrect ... but you don't supply the "correct" ones. But ... nah, nah, nah, nah ... we all know why you don't ... because mine happen to be correct ... and the only thing you can do to challenge them is to once again display your inordinate fear of radio entertainers.

5) Terrorists can be freedom fighters. George Washington was viewed as a terrorist and fought a war similar to what many "terrorist" groups are doing now. A terrorist is never a freedom fighter. Terrorists ... by definition ... indiscriminately murder the innocent ... something George Washington never did ... and your mouth ... or your hands ... should be washed with soap for even typing that.

6) I didn't forget who we liberated. I know significantly more about world history than you ever will know. I'm sure you do ... and I meant to ask you ... whatever happend to Aberada .. you know ... Robert Guiscard's first wife ... what became of her?

7) I am well aware Iraq has a democratically elected government, but it is a puppet government that can't even get its own military going after years of training. In WWII the US trained its soldiers in a matter of weeks, but the Iraqi's need years. Do you have any idea how silly you appear when you compare a newborn democracy to the U.S. ... which by the 1940's had been functioning for over 150 years? And though you proclaim your knowledge of "world history" ... you seem to be completely unaware that the first two years of WWII saw devastating defeats for the U.S. forces. It wasn't until late 1943 that we finally got competent fighting forces on the ground ... and were able to start turning the tide.

8) Oil is more expensive than it should be because of oil traders, but it is still cheaper than it should be in a fair market. You probably don't understand how pricing of oil works, but traders determine the price, based on supply and demand, but if the Arab countries wanted to they could get a ton more for their goods. Their dictators agree to keep the price low in exchange for the US protecting them from the masses. There are so many internal contradictions in that statement ... it's almost impossible to know where to start. It's more expensive ... it's cheaper ... there is a fair market ... there isn't a fair market ... traders determine the price ... dictators determine the price ... say what? You seem to know as much about economics as you do about history. And please ... please challenge me on this one.

So ... let's see how you did. If each of the eight responses was worth 12.5 points ... you'd get 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 8, 4, and 0 ... for a total of 12 out of 100.

Hmmm ... I don't think you did as well as your friend said you did ... don't you agree? You'd better brush up your Shakespeare ... to say the least.

[boldruler]

I'll answer your questions ... but first ...

... I'll answer your answers ...

1) I said the countries are insignifcant, no mention of the people. They are insignificant, nothing would change if they were there or weren't there. So ... if Israel is so insignificant ... and it wouldn't matter if it vanished ... why is the entire Arab world in an uproar over it's existence?

2) American Values are not stated in the Constitution or Declaration. You are a simple minded idiot. There is no such thing as American Values. Why were there slaves and women with no rights for almost 100 years after the constitution and declaration if the "american values" you love to throw around existed. Sorry ... but I always thought that "All men are created equal and are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights" was a statement of values. Ooops ... silly me. As to slavery ... you're once again ... and how many times is this going to happen? ... confusing objectives and strategies. The objective was to eliminate slavery and the strategy was to allow it for a time in order to get the Union established ... then eliminate it. And guess what ... the strategy worked! Slavery was eliminated 143 years ago ... or hadn't you heard?

3) I didn't say all Jews were Ortodox Jews, I just said the religious ones run that country And you were wrong in both instances.

4) YOU ARE WRONG ABOUT INCOME TAXES. Stop believing everything Rush tells you. Again ... you say that my income tax distribution statistics are incorrect ... but you don't supply the "correct" ones. But ... nah, nah, nah, nah ... we all know why you don't ... because mine happen to be correct ... and the only thing you can do to challenge them is to once again display your inordinate fear of radio entertainers.

5) Terrorists can be freedom fighters. George Washington was viewed as a terrorist and fought a war similar to what many "terrorist" groups are doing now. A terrorist is never a freedom fighter. Terrorists ... by definition ... indiscriminately murder the innocent ... something George Washington never did ... and your mouth ... or your hands ... should be washed with soap for even typing that.

6) I didn't forget who we liberated. I know significantly more about world history than you ever will know. I'm sure you do ... and I meant to ask you ... whatever happend to Aberada .. you know ... Robert Guiscard's first wife ... what became of her?

7) I am well aware Iraq has a democratically elected government, but it is a puppet government that can't even get its own military going after years of training. In WWII the US trained its soldiers in a matter of weeks, but the Iraqi's need years. Do you have any idea how silly you appear when you compare a newborn democracy to the U.S. ... which by the 1940's had been functioning for over 150 years? And though you proclaim your knowledge of "world history" ... you seem to be completely unaware that the first two years of WWII saw devastating defeats for the U.S. forces. It wasn't until late 1943 that we finally got competent fighting forces on the ground ... and were able to start turning the tide.

8) Oil is more expensive than it should be because of oil traders, but it is still cheaper than it should be in a fair market. You probably don't understand how pricing of oil works, but traders determine the price, based on supply and demand, but if the Arab countries wanted to they could get a ton more for their goods. Their dictators agree to keep the price low in exchange for the US protecting them from the masses. There are so many internal contradictions in that statement ... it's almost impossible to know where to start. It's more expensive ... it's cheaper ... there is a fair market ... there isn't a fair market ... traders determine the price ... dictators determine the price ... say what? You seem to know as much about economics as you do about history. And please ... please challenge me on this one.

So ... let's see how you did. If each of the eight responses was worth 12.5 points ... you'd get 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 8, 4, and 0 ... for a total of 12 out of 100.

Hmmm ... I don't think you did as well as your friend said you did ... don't you agree? You'd better brush up your Shakespeare ... to say the least.


All of that and you still didn't answer the questions, although this time you said you would and you didn't. So now you are

1) Not a real American, but feels free to attack us Real Americans
2) A lover of traitors to America.
3) Incapable of answering questions
4) and now you can add LIAR who says he will answer two questions but doesn't.

What a winner you are.

[Bold Brooklynite]

OK ... now let's anwer your question ... where does my loyalty lie?

Well .. if you were clever ... which we know you aren't ... you could've saved yourself hours and hours of harrumphing and hyperventilating ... and all those boldface and all-caps sentences ...

... simply by going to the Members List of this forum ... clicking on my name ... and looking at the photo ... which tells you everything you'd ever need to know about my loyalty.

See? See how easy it would have been ... if only you knew how to think?

[boldruler]

OK ... now let's anwer your question ... where does my loyalty lie?

Well .. if you were clever ... which we know you aren't ... you could've saved yourself hours and hours of harrumphing and hyperventilating ... and all those boldface and all-caps sentences ...

... simply by going to the Members List of this forum ... clicking on my name ... and looking at the photo ... which tells you everything you'd ever need to know about my loyalty.

See? See how easy it would have been ... if only you knew how to think?

Still no real answer. What a surprise.

Here are the questions for the 50th time

ARE YOUR LOYALTIES TO AMERICA OR ISRAEL, when their interests don't go hand in hand?

ARE YOU IN FAVOR OF FREEING AN ISRAELI SPY LIKE JONATHAN POLLARD, A TRAITOR TO AMERICA, like many israelis?


Now because you are a little slow I will explain how your answers should read. Ok. Pay attention.

your response should be either, my loyalties are to america or my loyalites are to Israel.

I am in favor of freeing Jonathan Pollard, a traitor to america, or I am not in favor of freeing Jonathan Pollard.

Is that too difficult for you?

[Bold Brooklynite]

All of that and you still didn't answer the questions, although this time you said you would and you didn't. So now you are

1) Not a real American, but feels free to attack us Real Americans
2) A lover of traitors to America.
3) Incapable of answering questions
4) and now you can add LIAR who says he will answer two questions but doesn't.

What a winner you are.
Well ... I'm glad you didn't dispute the "12" I gave you. I think it was pretty fair ... perhaps a bit generous ... but I always gave out better grades when I knew one of my students was interested in thoroughbred racing.

[Bold Brooklynite]

Still no real answer.
Yes ... yes it is ... don't you understand ... have you no imagination .. have you no capacity for deductive reasoning ... do you know who is in the photo ... and what he represents?

[See, folks ... do you see what I'm up against? I think I'd have better luck working with Koko The Gorilla ... don't you?]

[boldruler]

Well ... I'm glad you didn't dispute the "12" I gave you. I think it was pretty fair ... perhaps a bit generous ... but I always gave out better grades when I knew one of my students was interested in thoroughbred racing.

Just another post without answering the questions. What a surprise. Any Real American is proud to say their allegiance is always to America. I guess you aren't a Real American. Do you kids pledge allegiance to the American flag or the Israeli flag? :eek:

[boldruler]

Yes ... yes it is ... don't you understand ... have you no imagination .. have you no capacity for deductive reasoning ... do you know who is in the photo ... and what he represents?

[See, folks ... do you see what I'm up against? I think I'd have better luck working with Koko The Gorilla ... don't you?]


I know JR when I see him. Doesn't mean anything. You could still have allegiance to Israeli before America and like JR.

Just say it. My allegiance is to America before Israel. Not too difficult.

[boldruler]

Here is another one for you.

Who was a greater leader Golda Meir or Ronald Reagan? Or how about Golda Meir or FDR?

One name answers please.

[Bold Brooklynite]

Oh, yeah ... the Pollard thing.

Now once again I have to resort to baby talk ... so there's a chance you might inderstand.

The Pollard case was/is a legal matter ... where the law enforcemnt authorities filed a charge ... evidence was gathered ... and presented before a judge and jury in something called a trial ... a verdict was reached ... and a sentence was determined ... appeals ... many of them ... already have been heard ... and more will follow.

That's how the American leagl system works. It isn't perfect ... and sometimes bad results occur ... but ... over the long haul ... and ceteris paribus ... it's a pretty good system.

I don't know if you're as much an expert on the legal system as you are on world history and economics ... but somehow ... I suspect that you are.

[Bold Brooklynite]

I know JR when I see him. Doesn't mean anything. You could still have allegiance to Israeli before America and like JR.

Just say it. My allegiance is to America before Israel. Not too difficult.
JR? ... JR?

Would you mind spelling it out ... if you're capable of spelling ... and tell us exactly who you mean by JR?

[Really, folks ... is this getting to be too much ... or what?]

[boldruler]

Oh, yeah ... the Pollard thing.

Now once again I have to resort to baby talk ... so there's a chance you might inderstand.

The Pollard case was/is a legal matter ... where the law enforcemnt authorities filed a charge ... evidence was gathered ... and presented before a judge and jury in something called a trial ... a verdict was reached ... and a sentence was determined ... appeals ... many of them ... already have been heard ... and more will follow.

That's how the American leagl system owrks. It isn't perfect ... and sometimes bad results occur ... but ... over the log haul ... and ceteris paribus ... it's a pretty good system.

I don't know if you're as much an expert on the legal system as you are on world history and economics ... but somehow ... I suspect that you are.

Thanks for another no answer. Amazing how in all your posts you continue to not answer the question. Just admit it, your first allegiance is to Israel. You would sell out America in a second if it meant helping save Israel.

So once again, where does your allegiance lie and should do you believe that Pollert should be free?

[boldruler]

JR? ... JR?

Would you mind spelling it out ... if you're capable of spelling ... and tell us exactly who you mean by JR?

Jackie Robinson. Idiot. This conversation is over. You are obviously an not a Real American and you care more about Israel. Case Closed

No Real American would have a problem saying his true allegiance will always be to America.

People like you are sad. You go wrapping yourself up in my flag and you are not even an American.

[Bold Brooklynite]

Thanks for another no answer. Amazing how in all your posts you continue to not answer the question. Just admit it, your first allegiance is to Israel. You would sell out America in a second if it meant helping save Israel.

So once again, where does your allegiance lie and should do you believe that Pollert should be free?
Yes ... yes ... yes it is ... it's a complete, thorough, and directly spot-on answer.

Your lack of reasoning ability is getting to be beyond embarrassing.

But ... machts nichts to me ... you're the one everyone is laughing at.

[boldruler]

Yes ... yes ... yes it is ... it's a complete, thorough, and directly spot-on answer.

Your lack of reasoning ability is getting to be beyond embarrassing.

But ... machts nichts to me ... you're the one everyone is laughing at.


Another post without an answer. Maybe you should teach your countries military to shoot straight. They just blew up a UN Post in Lebanon, probably with a missile I bought them. :eek:

Nothing wrong with you loving Israel more, just don't pretend to be an American, because you aren't.

[Bold Brooklynite]

Jackie Robinson. Idiot.
Ummm ... i know you think "they" all look alike ...

... but the gentleman in the photo is Roy Campanella.

It's obvious from the number on his uniform ... "39". As everyone knows ... ooops, almost everyone ... Jackie Robinson's number was "42".

Hasn't this been enough embarrassment and humiliation ... even for you ... for one day?

[boldruler]

Yes ... yes ... yes it is ... it's a complete, thorough, and directly spot-on answer.

Your lack of reasoning ability is getting to be beyond embarrassing.

But ... machts nichts to me ... you're the one everyone is laughing at.

I know, they don't laugh at traitors, they just want to hang people like you.

[Bold Brooklynite]

This conversation is over.
Awww ... you say it ... but you really don't mean it ... like .. why would you keep on posting ... if the conversation were over?

But please ... take your own words to heart ... and end it.

This is getting worse than Emile Girffith vs. Benny Paret.

(And by the way ... you're Benny Paret.)

[boldruler]

Ummm ... i know you think "they" all look alike ...

... but the gentleman in the photo is Roy Campanella.

It's obvious from the number on his uniform ... "39". As everyone knows ... ooops, almost everyone ... Jackie Robinson's number was "42".

Hasn't this been enough embarrassment and humiliation ... even for you ... for one day?

They meaning black people? That is a statement a Jewish guy would make. Jewish people are some of the most racist people on the planet.

Just to let you know, I have some black, puerto rican, and even Jewish blood in me. So stop it with you ridiculous comments.

[boldruler]

Awww ... you say it ... but you really don't mean it ... like .. why would you keep on posting ... if the conversation were over?

But please ... take your own words to heart ... and end it.

This is getting worse than Emile Girffith vs. Benny Paret.

(And by the way ... you're Benny Paret.)


You can't answer two simple questions with a simple answer, which means I know the answer. You are not an American and you have no problem with people spying on America for Israel.

The sad part is that you tried to portray yourself as the patriotic American and you are anything but that.

Nice job shooting UN people today. Brilliant.

[timmgirvan]

Awww ... you say it ... but you really don't mean it ... like .. why would you keep on posting ... if the conversation were over?

But please ... take your own words to heart ... and end it.

This is getting worse than Emile Girffith vs. Benny Paret.

(And by the way ... you're Benny Paret.)
I saw that fight as a youngster(8 or 9) Brutal! Never liked Griffith after that!

[boldruler]

I saw that fight as a youngster(8 or 9) Brutal! Never liked Griffith after that!

Great another guy, who I suspect has an allegiance to Israel over America. How about you?

Can you state that your allegiance is to America first?

[boldruler]

Awww ... you say it ... but you really don't mean it ... like .. why would you keep on posting ... if the conversation were over?

But please ... take your own words to heart ... and end it.

This is getting worse than Emile Girffith vs. Benny Paret.

(And by the way ... you're Benny Paret.)

Man you are old. So you are Emile Griffith. So you love Israel first and you prefer men to women. Interesting. I have no problem with that but doesn't the Old Testament have a problem with that. :eek:

[timmgirvan]

Great another guy, who I suspect has an allegiance to Israel over America. How about you?

Can you state that your allegiance is to America first?
Paranoia Much?? I was stating my reaction to the fight mentioned! For the record..America first always

[boldruler]

Paranoia Much?? I was stating my reaction to the fight mentioned! For the record..America first always


I know that, I was just trying to get a response from BB. I honestly don't have a problem with him liking Israel more than America, I just don't like someone with that view challenging Americans and basically pulling the "with us or against us" crap. Hard to get away with saying that when your first allegiance isn't even to America.

[dalakhani]

I notice you conveniently left out every country I mentioned ... where we backed a dictator against communist aggression ... then after we defeated communism ... we helped Taiwan, South Korea, The Phillipines, Chile, Nicaragua, and El Salvador become free democracies.

You did mention Nicaragua ... but to what end? We helped defeat the communists and it's now a free democracy ... did you prefer a different outcome ... and what would that outcome have been?

Congo? Are you serious? That was a Belgian colony which never even made it on our radar. We never had ... and never wanted ... any influence there.

Idi Amin? We always worked against him ... and now Uganda is an emerging democracy. Another successful strategy and outcome. What would you have preferred?

Pol Pot? He was a murderous communist whom we worked against ... but unfortunately we couldn't prevent from coming to power after the communists swept into South Vietnam ... after our Democrat Congress shamelessly abandoned our allies by completely cutting off our aid.

How about Iran? That was a case where numbskull Jimmuh abandoned a pro-western dictator ... the shah ... and handed the country over to the fanatical mullahs ... and the entire world has been paying a horrible price ever since. Doncha think that staying with the shah would have been better than the idiotic strategy of Jimmuh ... the worst president we've ever had?

And Vietnam? Another horrible mistake of not backing a pro-western Christian dictator ... Diem. Did I say not backing him? Hey .. the idiot Kennedy had him murdered! Again ... was not backing a pro-western dictator in South Vietnam a good idea?

Yes, my friend ... there are times when choosing the lesser of two evils yields beneficial results ... South Korea, Taiwan, The Phillipines, Chile, Nicaragua, El Salvador ... and other times when NOT backing a dictator leads to even worse results ... Vietnam, Iran.

You do see that now ... don't you?

You are either horribly uninformed or just a complete liar...make your pick. Liar or idiot. Our president obviously chose "idiot" and i bet you will do the same.

Before i dissect all of this other garbage, i will suggest you read a number of articles but most importantly the recently released Nixon dialogues where it is in bold letters how the US did indeed deal with Mobutu and did have interest in congo/zaire.

Now, everyone, It is proven. Brooklynite is either a liar or an uninformed idiot!

:)

And if anyone doubts me, here is the link!

Enjoy.

http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ho/frus/nixon/e6/67173.htm

[Independent George]

Yes ... yes it is ... don't you understand ... have you no imagination .. have you no capacity for deductive reasoning ... do you know who is in the photo ... and what he represents?

[See, folks ... do you see what I'm up against? I think I'd have better luck working with Koko The Gorilla ... don't you?]


Aw c'mon, BB, don't tell me you're not working with Koko, here.

[Independent George]

Still no real answer. What a surprise.

Here are the questions for the 50th time

ARE YOUR LOYALTIES TO AMERICA OR ISRAEL, when their interests don't go hand in hand?

ARE YOU IN FAVOR OF FREEING AN ISRAELI SPY LIKE JONATHAN POLLARD, A TRAITOR TO AMERICA, like many israelis?


Now because you are a little slow I will explain how your answers should read. Ok. Pay attention.

your response should be either, my loyalties are to america or my loyalites are to Israel.

I am in favor of freeing Jonathan Pollard, a traitor to america, or I am not in favor of freeing Jonathan Pollard.

Is that too difficult for you?


Why is that you can pose an either/or question when one supports an ally of this country in its fight against Islamic Fascism ? When FDR went to the aid of Great Britain while they were trying to stave off Nazi aggression, would you have asked FDR if he is a "real American" or if his loyalties were to England or the US ? WE support our allies (except for Jimmy Carter who wouldn't even give the Shah of Iran a "pass" to get medical treatment in this country, when it was Iran...yes Iran...who was one of our strongest allies during the Vietnam war), and we support our allies because it BEHOOVES us to...it is beneficial to our well-being also..and that's being a REAL AMERICAN.

[boldruler]

Why is that you can pose an either/or question when one supports an ally of this country in its fight against Islamic Fascism ? When FDR went to the aid of Great Britain while they were trying to stave off Nazi aggression, would you have asked FDR if he is a "real American" or if his loyalties were to England or the US ? WE support our allies (except for Jimmy Carter who wouldn't even give the Shah of Iran a "pass" to get medical treatment in this country, when it was Iran...yes Iran...who was one of our strongest allies during the Vietnam war), and we support our allies because it BEHOOVES us to...it is beneficial to our well-being also..and that's being a REAL AMERICAN.

No being a REAL AMERICAN means taking care of other Americans first. Support Israel if you want but the $100 billion that we have given them to create a military should have been used to help Americans first. Israel isn't a poor country, they can afford their own military.

[dalakhani]

You are either horribly uninformed or just a complete liar...make your pick. Liar or idiot. Our president obviously chose "idiot" and i bet you will do the same.

Before i dissect all of this other garbage, i will suggest you read a number of articles but most importantly the recently released Nixon dialogues where it is in bold letters how the US did indeed deal with Mobutu and did have interest in congo/zaire.

Now, everyone, It is proven. Brooklynite is either a liar or an uninformed idiot!

:)

And if anyone doubts me, here is the link!

Enjoy.

http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ho/frus/nixon/e6/67173.htm

I want to watch this guy try to spin out of this one. Hilarious.

[Bold Brooklynite]

You are either horribly uninformed or just a complete liar...make your pick. Liar or idiot. Our president obviously chose "idiot" and i bet you will do the same.

Before i dissect all of this other garbage, i will suggest you read a number of articles but most importantly the recently released Nixon dialogues where it is in bold letters how the US did indeed deal with Mobutu and did have interest in congo/zaire.

Now, everyone, It is proven. Brooklynite is either a liar or an uninformed idiot!

:)

And if anyone doubts me, here is the link!

Enjoy.

http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ho/frus/nixon/e6/67173.htm
Da-ta-da-ta-da-ta-da ... Da-ta-da-ta-da-ta-da [sound of the cavalry charge] Da-ta-da-ta-da-ta-da ... Da-ta-da-ta-da-ta-da .... !!!

Yup ... right on cue ... here comes the cavalry to try to save the day. But ... sorry ... you're little pal has been beaten to an intellectual pulp ... the only thing you can do is put him on a litter ... and have a medic do his best. And make that a Jewish medic.

And just take a look at this "evidence" of our "involvement" with the Congo ... a memo to a lackey to ... maybe ... give some chump change to Mobutu so he can pay this month's electric bill.

Hey, buddy .. memos like this are written every day about every country ... that's how the paper pushers in the State Dept. justify their jobs. The odds are about 200-1 against Nixon ever having seen this piddling paperwork.

It was probably signed by Rosemary Woods after she changed the tapes in the Oval Office recording machine.

[Sheesh ... now you surely can understand, my friends ... what utter losers these guys are. "Dumber" gets in trouble ... and "Dumb" tries to bail him out ... only he falls into the vat of chicken fat too!]

[Bold Brooklynite]

Aw c'mon, BB, don't tell me you're not working with Koko, here.
Hmmm ... do you think?

Maybe you're onto something.

"Koko Goes On The Derbytrail" ... yeah ... might be a good vehicle for Jim Carrey.

[Bold Brooklynite]

No being a REAL AMERICAN means taking care of other Americans first. Support Israel if you want but the $100 billion that we have given them to create a military should have been used to help Americans first. Israel isn't a poor country, they can afford their own military.
Do you see, George ... do you see what I mean?

It's really no use ... you're trying to teach differential equations to a chimpanzee ... no way it can be done.

[dalakhani]

Da-ta-da-ta-da-ta-da ... Da-ta-da-ta-da-ta-da [sound of the cavalry charge] Da-ta-da-ta-da-ta-da ... Da-ta-da-ta-da-ta-da .... !!!

Yup ... right on cue ... here comes the cavalry to try to save the day. But ... sorry ... you're little pal has been beaten to an intellectual pulp ... the only thing you can do is put him on a litter ... and have a medic do his best. And make that a Jewish medic.

And just take a look at this "evidence" of our "involvement" with the Congo ... a memo to a lackey to ... maybe ... give some chump change to Mobutu so he can pay this month's electric bill.

Hey, buddy .. memos like this are written every day about every country ... that's how the paper pushers in the State Dept. justify their jobs. The odds are about 200-1 against Nixon ever having seen this piddling paperwork.

It was probably signed by Rosemary Woods after she changed the tapes in the Oval Office recording machine.

[Sheesh ... now you surely can understand, my friends ... what utter losers these guys are. "Dumber" gets in trouble ... and "Dumb" tries to bail him out ... only he falls into the vat of chicken fat too!]

it took you this long to come up with THAT?????

Look at the spin. Just look at the spin.

YOU made the CLAIM that the US was not involved in CONGO. Whitehouse Documents claim that you are WRONG.

So...WERE YOU LYING OR JUST UNINFORMED?????

Dont spin....

Just answer the question.

[dalakhani]

I notice you conveniently left out every country I mentioned ... where we backed a dictator against communist aggression ... then after we defeated communism ... we helped Taiwan, South Korea, The Phillipines, Chile, Nicaragua, and El Salvador become free democracies.

You did mention Nicaragua ... but to what end? We helped defeat the communists and it's now a free democracy ... did you prefer a different outcome ... and what would that outcome have been?

Congo? Are you serious? That was a Belgian colony which never even made it on our radar. We never had ... and never wanted ... any influence there.

Idi Amin? We always worked against him ... and now Uganda is an emerging democracy. Another successful strategy and outcome. What would you have preferred?

Pol Pot? He was a murderous communist whom we worked against ... but unfortunately we couldn't prevent from coming to power after the communists swept into South Vietnam ... after our Democrat Congress shamelessly abandoned our allies by completely cutting off our aid.

How about Iran? That was a case where numbskull Jimmuh abandoned a pro-western dictator ... the shah ... and handed the country over to the fanatical mullahs ... and the entire world has been paying a horrible price ever since. Doncha think that staying with the shah would have been better than the idiotic strategy of Jimmuh ... the worst president we've ever had?

And Vietnam? Another horrible mistake of not backing a pro-western Christian dictator ... Diem. Did I say not backing him? Hey .. the idiot Kennedy had him murdered! Again ... was not backing a pro-western dictator in South Vietnam a good idea?

Yes, my friend ... there are times when choosing the lesser of two evils yields beneficial results ... South Korea, Taiwan, The Phillipines, Chile, Nicaragua, El Salvador ... and other times when NOT backing a dictator leads to even worse results ... Vietnam, Iran.

You do see that now ... don't you?

now which is brooklynite? Liar or uninformed?

Just answer the question...no spin.

[dalakhani]

I notice you conveniently left out every country I mentioned ... where we backed a dictator against communist aggression ... then after we defeated communism ... we helped Taiwan, South Korea, The Phillipines, Chile, Nicaragua, and El Salvador become free democracies.

You did mention Nicaragua ... but to what end? We helped defeat the communists and it's now a free democracy ... did you prefer a different outcome ... and what would that outcome have been?

Congo? Are you serious? That was a Belgian colony which never even made it on our radar. We never had ... and never wanted ... any influence there.

Idi Amin? We always worked against him ... and now Uganda is an emerging democracy. Another successful strategy and outcome. What would you have preferred?

Pol Pot? He was a murderous communist whom we worked against ... but unfortunately we couldn't prevent from coming to power after the communists swept into South Vietnam ... after our Democrat Congress shamelessly abandoned our allies by completely cutting off our aid.

How about Iran? That was a case where numbskull Jimmuh abandoned a pro-western dictator ... the shah ... and handed the country over to the fanatical mullahs ... and the entire world has been paying a horrible price ever since. Doncha think that staying with the shah would have been better than the idiotic strategy of Jimmuh ... the worst president we've ever had?

And Vietnam? Another horrible mistake of not backing a pro-western Christian dictator ... Diem. Did I say not backing him? Hey .. the idiot Kennedy had him murdered! Again ... was not backing a pro-western dictator in South Vietnam a good idea?

Yes, my friend ... there are times when choosing the lesser of two evils yields beneficial results ... South Korea, Taiwan, The Phillipines, Chile, Nicaragua, El Salvador ... and other times when NOT backing a dictator leads to even worse results ... Vietnam, Iran.

You do see that now ... don't you?

Liar or uninformed? Come on...Just answer the question.

[Bold Brooklynite]

it took you this long to come up with THAT?????

Look at the spin. Just look at the spin.

YOU made the CLAIM that the US was not involved in CONGO. Whitehouse Documents claim that you are WRONG.

So...WERE YOU LYING OR JUST UNINFORMED?????

Dont spin....

Just answer the question.
Bwahahahahahaha ... I guess the joke's on me!

I thought you were Dumb ... and the other guy was Dumber ... but ...

... silly me ... you're both Dumber !!!

[Bold Brooklynite]

Ohmigod!

I just noticed ... Dumber keeps responding to himself!

Yeah ... I guess he's spent too much time with that inflatable doll.

[dalakhani]

I notice you conveniently left out every country I mentioned ... where we backed a dictator against communist aggression ... then after we defeated communism ... we helped Taiwan, South Korea, The Phillipines, Chile, Nicaragua, and El Salvador become free democracies.

You did mention Nicaragua ... but to what end? We helped defeat the communists and it's now a free democracy ... did you prefer a different outcome ... and what would that outcome have been?

Congo? Are you serious? That was a Belgian colony which never even made it on our radar. We never had ... and never wanted ... any influence there.
Idi Amin? We always worked against him ... and now Uganda is an emerging democracy. Another successful strategy and outcome. What would you have preferred?

Pol Pot? He was a murderous communist whom we worked against ... but unfortunately we couldn't prevent from coming to power after the communists swept into South Vietnam ... after our Democrat Congress shamelessly abandoned our allies by completely cutting off our aid.

How about Iran? That was a case where numbskull Jimmuh abandoned a pro-western dictator ... the shah ... and handed the country over to the fanatical mullahs ... and the entire world has been paying a horrible price ever since. Doncha think that staying with the shah would have been better than the idiotic strategy of Jimmuh ... the worst president we've ever had?

And Vietnam? Another horrible mistake of not backing a pro-western Christian dictator ... Diem. Did I say not backing him? Hey .. the idiot Kennedy had him murdered! Again ... was not backing a pro-western dictator in South Vietnam a good idea?

Yes, my friend ... there are times when choosing the lesser of two evils yields beneficial results ... South Korea, Taiwan, The Phillipines, Chile, Nicaragua, El Salvador ... and other times when NOT backing a dictator leads to even worse results ... Vietnam, Iran.

You do see that now ... don't you?

Liar or uninformed? How about UNINFORMED LIAR????????

Just in case anyone forgot, read the bold and then check out the link.

http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ho/frus/nixon/e6/67173.htm

[dalakhani]

Ohmigod!

I just noticed ... Dumber keeps responding to himself!

Yeah ... I guess he's spent too much time with that inflatable doll.

First you got caught cutting and pasting and now you get caught making false statements and writing about things of which you have no clue.

So...

Liar or uninformed?

http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ho/frus/nixon/e6/67173.htm

[SentToStud]

Bwahahahahahaha ... I guess the joke's on me!

I thought you were Dumb ... and the other guy was Dumber ... but ...

... silly me ... you're both Dumber !!!



Oh my freaking goodness.

This is a 65 year old man.

You would think he was an eight year old child.

My image of this buffoon is a cross between Dr. Smith (Lost in Space) and Milton Berle (doing one of his drag queen bits).

He may be 65 years old but I would bet dollars to dimes that he still bites his fingernails.

[Independent George]

No being a REAL AMERICAN means taking care of other Americans first. Support Israel if you want but the $100 billion that we have given them to create a military should have been used to help Americans first. Israel isn't a poor country, they can afford their own military.


So FDR was NOT a REAL AMERICAN, because he sent millions in aid to Great Britain when he could have used those millions to feed the poor in this country; to help the farmers devastated by the Depression and the Dust Bowl.
I think I get your drift now.

[dalakhani]

I notice you conveniently left out every country I mentioned ... where we backed a dictator against communist aggression ... then after we defeated communism ... we helped Taiwan, South Korea, The Phillipines, Chile, Nicaragua, and El Salvador become free democracies.

You did mention Nicaragua ... but to what end? We helped defeat the communists and it's now a free democracy ... did you prefer a different outcome ... and what would that outcome have been?

Congo? Are you serious? That was a Belgian colony which never even made it on our radar. We never had ... and never wanted ... any influence there.
Idi Amin? We always worked against him ... and now Uganda is an emerging democracy. Another successful strategy and outcome. What would you have preferred?

Pol Pot? He was a murderous communist whom we worked against ... but unfortunately we couldn't prevent from coming to power after the communists swept into South Vietnam ... after our Democrat Congress shamelessly abandoned our allies by completely cutting off our aid.

How about Iran? That was a case where numbskull Jimmuh abandoned a pro-western dictator ... the shah ... and handed the country over to the fanatical mullahs ... and the entire world has been paying a horrible price ever since. Doncha think that staying with the shah would have been better than the idiotic strategy of Jimmuh ... the worst president we've ever had?

And Vietnam? Another horrible mistake of not backing a pro-western Christian dictator ... Diem. Did I say not backing him? Hey .. the idiot Kennedy had him murdered! Again ... was not backing a pro-western dictator in South Vietnam a good idea?

Yes, my friend ... there are times when choosing the lesser of two evils yields beneficial results ... South Korea, Taiwan, The Phillipines, Chile, Nicaragua, El Salvador ... and other times when NOT backing a dictator leads to even worse results ... Vietnam, Iran.

You do see that now ... don't you?

So the coward's way out once again. Liar or uninformed?

The link one more time


http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ho/frus/nixon/e6/67173.htm

[Bold Brooklynite]

So FDR was NOT a REAL AMERICAN, because he sent millions in aid to Great Britain when he could have used those millions to feed the poor in this country; to help the farmers devastated by the Depression and the Dust Bowl.
I think I get your drift now.
George ... George ... George ...

... there is no drift ... it's just sand being thrown in the air at random ... just like Koko would do.

There's no thought ... there's no reason ... there's no concern over self-contradiction ... there's no sense of shame or embarrassment ...

... there's simply no "there" there.

[dalakhani]

George ... George ... George ...

... there is no drift ... it's just sand being thrown in the air at random ... just like Koko would do.

There's no thought ... there's no reason ... there's no concern over self-contradiction ... there's no sense of shame or embarrassment ...

... there's simply no "there" there.

My thoughts exactly.

Liar or uninformed?

http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ho/frus/nixon/e6/67173.htm

[dalakhani]

I notice you conveniently left out every country I mentioned ... where we backed a dictator against communist aggression ... then after we defeated communism ... we helped Taiwan, South Korea, The Phillipines, Chile, Nicaragua, and El Salvador become free democracies.

You did mention Nicaragua ... but to what end? We helped defeat the communists and it's now a free democracy ... did you prefer a different outcome ... and what would that outcome have been?

Congo? Are you serious? That was a Belgian colony which never even made it on our radar. We never had ... and never wanted ... any influence there.
Idi Amin? We always worked against him ... and now Uganda is an emerging democracy. Another successful strategy and outcome. What would you have preferred?

Pol Pot? He was a murderous communist whom we worked against ... but unfortunately we couldn't prevent from coming to power after the communists swept into South Vietnam ... after our Democrat Congress shamelessly abandoned our allies by completely cutting off our aid.

How about Iran? That was a case where numbskull Jimmuh abandoned a pro-western dictator ... the shah ... and handed the country over to the fanatical mullahs ... and the entire world has been paying a horrible price ever since. Doncha think that staying with the shah would have been better than the idiotic strategy of Jimmuh ... the worst president we've ever had?

And Vietnam? Another horrible mistake of not backing a pro-western Christian dictator ... Diem. Did I say not backing him? Hey .. the idiot Kennedy had him murdered! Again ... was not backing a pro-western dictator in South Vietnam a good idea?

Yes, my friend ... there are times when choosing the lesser of two evils yields beneficial results ... South Korea, Taiwan, The Phillipines, Chile, Nicaragua, El Salvador ... and other times when NOT backing a dictator leads to even worse results ... Vietnam, Iran.

You do see that now ... don't you?

Liar or uninformed? Come on- its getting fun watching you squirm as everyone on this site has now seen you for the FRAUD that you are.

Now, if you answer me, i can get to chopping up the rest of this sad piece.

In case you forgot, here is the link

http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ho/frus/nixon/e6/67173.htm

[Bold Brooklynite]

See, George ... Dumber #2 has absolutely nothing ... but he really thinks he does!

He really thinks that a memo from a paper-pusher at Foggy Bottpm ... signed by a secretary or an AutoPen ... discussing chump change for a dictator who can't pay his electric bill ... and we don't even know if the chump change was actually given to the chump ... is a "significant event" ... which shows our mighty nation's "involvement."

And it doesn't help at all to point that out to him ... you've seen how hard I've tried.

He simply doesn't understand that memos like this happen thousands of times a day ... every day ... because its how the timeservers at Foggy Bottom ... and in our embassies and consulates all over the world ... justify their paychecks.

Yeah ... I'm sure Nixon was up all night wondering if Mobutu could pay his bills. Too funny ... and they don't even understand that the joke's on them.

P.S. Bwahahahahahaha ... bwahahahahahaha ... I just noticed the date of the memo ... one month before Nixon had to resign ... yeah ... I'm sure he was really worried about Mobutu then ... bwahahahahahaha ... bwahahahahahaha ... !!!!

[dalakhani]

See, George ... Dumber #2 has absolutely nothing ... but he really thinks he does!

He really thinks that a memo from a paper-pusher at Foggy Bottpm ... signed by a secretary or an AutoPen ... discussing chump change for a dictator who can't pay his electric bill ... and we don't even know if the chump change was actually given to the chump ... is a "significant event" ... which shows our mighty nation's "involvement."

And it doesn't help at all to point that out to him ... you've seen how hard I've tried.

He simply doesn't understand that memos like this happen thousands of times a day ... every day ... because its how the timeservers at Foggy Bottom ... and in our embassies and consulates all over the world ... justify their paychecks.

Yeah ... I'm sure Nixon was up all night wondering if Mobutu could pay his bills. Too funny ... and they don't even understand that the joke's on them.

Better spin but still proves you to be WRONG. Liar or uninformed?

Shall i get to the Idi Amin part?

Why dont you either admit your mistake or erase that pathetic passage? You look like a fool.

You claimed that the US had no interest in Congo and then you claim that official whitehouse documents are inaccurate. LOL.

So is it Liar, uninformed or uninformed liar?

http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ho/frus/nixon/e6/67173.htm

[dalakhani]

I notice you conveniently left out every country I mentioned ... where we backed a dictator against communist aggression ... then after we defeated communism ... we helped Taiwan, South Korea, The Phillipines, Chile, Nicaragua, and El Salvador become free democracies.

You did mention Nicaragua ... but to what end? We helped defeat the communists and it's now a free democracy ... did you prefer a different outcome ... and what would that outcome have been?

Congo? Are you serious? That was a Belgian colony which never even made it on our radar. We never had ... and never wanted ... any influence there.
Idi Amin? We always worked against him ... and now Uganda is an emerging democracy. Another successful strategy and outcome. What would you have preferred?

Pol Pot? He was a murderous communist whom we worked against ... but unfortunately we couldn't prevent from coming to power after the communists swept into South Vietnam ... after our Democrat Congress shamelessly abandoned our allies by completely cutting off our aid.

How about Iran? That was a case where numbskull Jimmuh abandoned a pro-western dictator ... the shah ... and handed the country over to the fanatical mullahs ... and the entire world has been paying a horrible price ever since. Doncha think that staying with the shah would have been better than the idiotic strategy of Jimmuh ... the worst president we've ever had?

And Vietnam? Another horrible mistake of not backing a pro-western Christian dictator ... Diem. Did I say not backing him? Hey .. the idiot Kennedy had him murdered! Again ... was not backing a pro-western dictator in South Vietnam a good idea?

Yes, my friend ... there are times when choosing the lesser of two evils yields beneficial results ... South Korea, Taiwan, The Phillipines, Chile, Nicaragua, El Salvador ... and other times when NOT backing a dictator leads to even worse results ... Vietnam, Iran.

You do see that now ... don't you?

Who ever said anything about whether or not Nixon knew anything? YOU made the claim that "we never wanted or had any influence in the Congo" which is WRONG. Quit spinning and just admit that you are an ignorant uninformed fool.

Shall i get to the idi amin part?

http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ho/frus/nixon/e6/67267.htm

[Bold Brooklynite]

Bwahahahahahaha ... bwahahahahahaha ... bwahahahahahaha ... bwahahahahahaha ...

... he didn't even see the P.S. on my last post ...

Bwahahahahahaha ... bwahahahahahaha ... bwahahahahahaha ... bwahahahahahaha ...

... oh ... oh ... oh ... I gotta take a break ... this is killing me ...

Bwahahahahahaha ... bwahahahahahaha ... bwahahahahahaha ... bwahahahahahaha ...

[dalakhani]

Bwahahahahahaha ... bwahahahahahaha ... bwahahahahahaha ... bwahahahahahaha ...

... he didn't even see the P.S. on my last post ...

Bwahahahahahaha ... bwahahahahahaha ... bwahahahahahaha ... bwahahahahahaha ...

... oh ... oh ... oh ... I gotta take a break ... this is killing me ...

Bwahahahahahaha ... bwahahahahahaha ... bwahahahahahaha ... bwahahahahahaha ...

Spin, spin spin. Sorry pal- Im not going to let you off the hook. You are a fool and you know it.

"Congo? WE never had any interest or influence there ever"- quote by brooklynite fool.

http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ho/frus/nixon/e6/67267.htm

[Bold Brooklynite]

Bwahahahahahaha ... bwahahahahahaha ... bwahahahahahaha ... bwahahahahahaha ...

... he's not gonna let me off the hook ...

Bwahahahahahaha ... bwahahahahahaha ... bwahahahahahaha ... bwahahahahahaha ...

... he's flopping in a vat of chicken fat with his Dumber friend ...

... and he's not gonna let me off the hook ...

Bwahahahahahaha ... bwahahahahahaha ... bwahahahahahaha ... bwahahahahahaha ... !!!

[dalakhani]

Bwahahahahahaha ... bwahahahahahaha ... bwahahahahahaha ... bwahahahahahaha ...

... he's not gonna let me off the hook ...

Bwahahahahahaha ... bwahahahahahaha ... bwahahahahahaha ... bwahahahahahaha ...

... he's flopping in a vat of chicken fat with his Dumber friend ...

... and he's not gonna let me off the hook ...

Bwahahahahahaha ... bwahahahahahaha ... bwahahahahahaha ... bwahahahahahaha ... !!!

Typical...childish ranting. Some "bold" guy you are. Cant face the issues so you get into sophmoric taunts.

Youve been outclassed.

Now, shall i further dissect your pathetic post or shall i take this as you crying "uncle"?

[dalakhani]

I notice you conveniently left out every country I mentioned ... where we backed a dictator against communist aggression ... then after we defeated communism ... we helped Taiwan, South Korea, The Phillipines, Chile, Nicaragua, and El Salvador become free democracies.

You did mention Nicaragua ... but to what end? We helped defeat the communists and it's now a free democracy ... did you prefer a different outcome ... and what would that outcome have been?

Congo? Are you serious? That was a Belgian colony which never even made it on our radar. We never had ... and never wanted ... any influence there.

BAAAA HAAAA HHAAAAA HHAAAAA Liar or uninformed?

Idi Amin? We always worked against him ... and now Uganda is an emerging democracy. Another successful strategy and outcome. What would you have preferred?

Shall i go here next?Pol Pot? He was a murderous communist whom we worked against ... but unfortunately we couldn't prevent from coming to power after the communists swept into South Vietnam ... after our Democrat Congress shamelessly abandoned our allies by completely cutting off our aid.

How about here?
How about Iran? That was a case where numbskull Jimmuh abandoned a pro-western dictator ... the shah ... and handed the country over to the fanatical mullahs ... and the entire world has been paying a horrible price ever since. Doncha think that staying with the shah would have been better than the idiotic strategy of Jimmuh ... the worst president we've ever had?

And Vietnam? Another horrible mistake of not backing a pro-western Christian dictator ... Diem. Did I say not backing him? Hey .. the idiot Kennedy had him murdered! Again ... was not backing a pro-western dictator in South Vietnam a good idea?

Yes, my friend ... there are times when choosing the lesser of two evils yields beneficial results ... South Korea, Taiwan, The Phillipines, Chile, Nicaragua, El Salvador ... and other times when NOT backing a dictator leads to even worse results ... Vietnam, Iran.

You do see that now ... don't you?

Liar or uninformed? and please, stop doing immitations of your wife the first time you whipped it out.

[Bold Brooklynite]

Wow ... do you see this George? Do you see how all they can do is throw sand in the air?

This thread is about the Israelis mopping the floor with Dumber & Dumber's Pali pals in 2006 ...

... and he wants to talk about a Nixon memo about Mobutu written one month before Nixon was forced to resign in 1975 ... even after I humiliated him publicly over it.

Yeah ... we're really going to fall for that .. aren't we, George ... we're really going to be tricked by Koko & Loco throwing sand.

They couldn't possibly be dumber ... could they?

[dalakhani]

Wow ... do you see this George? Do you see how all they can do is throw sand in the air?

This thread is about the Israelis mopping the floor with Dumber & Dumber's Pali pals in 2006 ...

... and he wants to talk about a Nixon memo about Mobutu written one month before Nixon was forced to resign in 1975 ... even after I huniliated him publicly over it.

Yeah ... we're really going to fall for that .. aren't we, George ... we're really going to be tricked by Koko & Loco throwing sand.

They couldn't possibly be dumber ... could they?

Better spin but still really bad! Watch some more Rush, you need work old man.

This has nothing to do with Nixon or mobutu or anything. It has to do WITH YOU. YOU being a liar or uninformed.

I noticed that are scared of me dissecting the rest of the ill conceived post. Erase it...just erase it.

[dalakhani]

I notice you conveniently left out every country I mentioned ... where we backed a dictator against communist aggression ... then after we defeated communism ... we helped Taiwan, South Korea, The Phillipines, Chile, Nicaragua, and El Salvador become free democracies.

You did mention Nicaragua ... but to what end? We helped defeat the communists and it's now a free democracy ... did you prefer a different outcome ... and what would that outcome have been?

Congo? Are you serious? That was a Belgian colony which never even made it on our radar. We never had ... and never wanted ... any influence there.
Idi Amin? We always worked against him ... and now Uganda is an emerging democracy. Another successful strategy and outcome. What would you have preferred?

Pol Pot? He was a murderous communist whom we worked against ... but unfortunately we couldn't prevent from coming to power after the communists swept into South Vietnam ... after our Democrat Congress shamelessly abandoned our allies by completely cutting off our aid.

How about Iran? That was a case where numbskull Jimmuh abandoned a pro-western dictator ... the shah ... and handed the country over to the fanatical mullahs ... and the entire world has been paying a horrible price ever since. Doncha think that staying with the shah would have been better than the idiotic strategy of Jimmuh ... the worst president we've ever had?

And Vietnam? Another horrible mistake of not backing a pro-western Christian dictator ... Diem. Did I say not backing him? Hey .. the idiot Kennedy had him murdered! Again ... was not backing a pro-western dictator in South Vietnam a good idea?

Yes, my friend ... there are times when choosing the lesser of two evils yields beneficial results ... South Korea, Taiwan, The Phillipines, Chile, Nicaragua, El Salvador ... and other times when NOT backing a dictator leads to even worse results ... Vietnam, Iran.

You do see that now ... don't you?

Still unwilling to admit that you are either a liar or uninformed? Sorry pal, im not going away.

"hi, im bold brooklynite, i like talking about history and politics but i dont have a clue about anything unless i cut and paste it from another site"

[dalakhani]

I notice you conveniently left out every country I mentioned ... where we backed a dictator against communist aggression ... then after we defeated communism ... we helped Taiwan, South Korea, The Phillipines, Chile, Nicaragua, and El Salvador become free democracies.

You did mention Nicaragua ... but to what end? We helped defeat the communists and it's now a free democracy ... did you prefer a different outcome ... and what would that outcome have been?

Congo? Are you serious? That was a Belgian colony which never even made it on our radar. We never had ... and never wanted ... any influence there.

Idi Amin? We always worked against him ... and now Uganda is an emerging democracy. Another successful strategy and outcome. What would you have preferred?

Pol Pot? He was a murderous communist whom we worked against ... but unfortunately we couldn't prevent from coming to power after the communists swept into South Vietnam ... after our Democrat Congress shamelessly abandoned our allies by completely cutting off our aid.

How about Iran? That was a case where numbskull Jimmuh abandoned a pro-western dictator ... the shah ... and handed the country over to the fanatical mullahs ... and the entire world has been paying a horrible price ever since. Doncha think that staying with the shah would have been better than the idiotic strategy of Jimmuh ... the worst president we've ever had?

And Vietnam? Another horrible mistake of not backing a pro-western Christian dictator ... Diem. Did I say not backing him? Hey .. the idiot Kennedy had him murdered! Again ... was not backing a pro-western dictator in South Vietnam a good idea?

Yes, my friend ... there are times when choosing the lesser of two evils yields beneficial results ... South Korea, Taiwan, The Phillipines, Chile, Nicaragua, El Salvador ... and other times when NOT backing a dictator leads to even worse results ... Vietnam, Iran.

You do see that now ... don't you?

perhaps we can get some more stirring commentary from "the grand master" on whether he is a LIAR or simply an UNINFORMED IDIOT.

Brooklynite fool seems to have made a FALSE claim and doesnt want to own up.

[boldruler]

perhaps we can get some more stirring commentary from "the grand master" on whether he is a LIAR or simply an UNINFORMED IDIOT.

Brooklynite fool seems to have made a FALSE claim and doesnt want to own up.

Brooklynite has a hard time answering questions and needs to wait until Rush or Sean Hannity get on the radio and give him his talking points for the day. He is a parrot that can't think for himself. He just repeats the same things over and over and doesn't address any issues. Sounds like our current President and the idiot President right before him.

[Independent George]

Brooklynite has a hard time answering questions and needs to wait until Rush or Sean Hannity get on the radio and give him his talking points for the day. He is a parrot that can't think for himself. He just repeats the same things over and over and doesn't address any issues. Sounds like our current President and the idiot President right before him.


Please.....if anyone is repeating the same things over and over, it's you and the other character.For umpteen posts you've called BB a liar and a moron...and THAT'S ALL YOU SAID. He answered your qestion and you persist on REPEATING the same thing over and over.

Move on..........(hey thats a good place for you- moveon.org; you'll probably find total agreement with what little you've had to say)

[Independent George]

[QUOTE=Independent George] (except for Jimmy Carter who wouldn't even give the Shah of Iran a "pass" to get medical treatment in this country, when it was Iran...yes Iran...who was one of our strongest allies during the Vietnam war), QUOTE]

This SOB not only put the US into it's darkest era but was on the brink of doing things that even history and Reagan couldn't right.

The sight of this creep still makes me want to kill him.


Jimmy Carter......the inventor of 15% Inflation.
We'll be paying for his mistakes for generations.

[Downthestretch55]

[QUOTE=Dixie Porter]


Jimmy Carter......the inventor of 15% Inflation.
We'll be paying for his mistakes for generations.
Indep Geo,
Are you really accusing Jimmy Carter for bringing on the inflation?
If so, you need to do a bit of reading.
Wars are financed with debt.
Borrow at 1970 dollars..pay back with 1974 ones (depreciated by inflation).
Wasn't it Richard Nixon that said he had a "plan" to end the Viet Nam war and then perpetuated it for another four years?
Duh? Is this the debt payment that Jimmy Carter had to deal with?
Wait until you see the inflation caused by G W's adventures for his lost causes.
Afghanistan is lost. Iraq is a civil war. Also another soon-to-be-loss.

"Bring 'em on!"

You'd think the US would have learned a lesson from Somolia when we got our billion dollar military's ass kicked by Toyota driving homies firing thousand dollar rpg's.

Ain't war great?

[dalakhani]

Please.....if anyone is repeating the same things over and over, it's you and the other character.For umpteen posts you've called BB a liar and a moron...and THAT'S ALL YOU SAID. He answered your qestion and you persist on REPEATING the same thing over and over.

Move on..........(hey thats a good place for you- moveon.org; you'll probably find total agreement with what little you've had to say)

Actually ive had a lot to say "independant George" and so has brooklynite fool. The problem is that the brooklynite fool doesnt have his facts straight and is unwilling to own up to it. He claims that the US never was involved in Congo and whitehouse papers say he is wrong.

I just want him to say whether he is uninformed or just a liar. A simple answer will do. At that point, i will go on choppping up the rest of his idiotic post. You can join him if you like but be prepared is all i ask.

[Independent George]

[QUOTE=Independent George]
Indep Geo,
Are you really accusing Jimmy Carter for bringing on the inflation?
If so, you need to do a bit of reading.
Wars are financed with debt.
Borrow at 1970 dollars..pay back with 1974 ones (depreciated by inflation).
Wasn't it Richard Nixon that said he had a "plan" to end the Viet Nam war and then perpetuated it for another four years?
Duh? Is this the debt payment that Jimmy Carter had to deal with?
Wait until you see the inflation caused by G W's adventures for his lost causes.
Afghanistan is lost. Iraq is a civil war. Also another soon-to-be-loss.

"Bring 'em on!"

You'd think the US would have learned a lesson from Somolia when we got our billion dollar military's ass kicked by Toyota driving homies firing thousand dollar rpg's.

Ain't war great?

Here we go, it's Nixon's fault that Jimmy Carter got to pay for the Vietnam War that Kennedy or Johnson initiated.
Afgahnistan is lost ??? What a news flash ! Does Kharzaid and/or the Taliban know that yet ??
Iraq COULD be another loss if it depended on the likes of you to fight it. In 1942, America had lost Pearl Harbor; the entire Phillipines; Wake Island. England had lost Singapore and Rommel was marching across Africa. YOU would have said...."the war is lost".
No, War aint great (I've been there; have you?); but Defeatism is much much worse.

[Independent George]

Actually ive had a lot to say "independant George" and so has brooklynite fool. The problem is that the brooklynite fool doesnt have his facts straight and is unwilling to own up to it. He claims that the US never was involved in Congo and whitehouse papers say he is wrong.

I just want him to say whether he is uninformed or just a liar. A simple answer will do. At that point, i will go on choppping up the rest of his idiotic post. You can join him if you like but be prepared is all i ask.


OOOOHHHHH, you got me scairt. Is that a threat ??

He answered your "whitehouse papers" comment, but he didn't answer it to your sarisfaction, which would be, "Yes, your correct." He aint gonna say that, so, move on .

[dalakhani]

OOOOHHHHH, you got me scairt. Is that a threat ??

He answered your "whitehouse papers" comment, but he didn't answer it to your sarisfaction, which would be, "Yes, your correct." He aint gonna say that, so, move on .

Not a threat at all. Dont be so paranoid. I meant "be prepared" as in "know your topic" unlike your brooklynite fool pal.

For the record he didnt answer anything. So i am doing to him what he does to others. I am not letting him "spin" out of an obvious incorrect statement. Actually, it would be "statements" plural because the whole silly post was completely inaccurate.

I will say that politics certainly makes strange bedfellows. its interesting who people are from site to site. Of course, from what i hear, you are the master of changing screen id's.

Oooops... Ive gotta Scooch!

[dalakhani]

[QUOTE=Downthestretch55]

Here we go, it's Nixon's fault that Jimmy Carter got to pay for the Vietnam War that Kennedy or Johnson initiated.
Afgahnistan is lost ??? What a news flash ! Does Kharzaid and/or the Taliban know that yet ??
Iraq COULD be another loss if it depended on the likes of you to fight it. In 1942, America had lost Pearl Harbor; the entire Phillipines; Wake Island. England had lost Singapore and Rommel was marching across Africa. YOU would have said...."the war is lost".
No, War aint great (I've been there; have you?); but Defeatism is much much worse.

Oh Oh...another moron that cant get their facts straight. Viet Nam was initiated during the Eisenhower administration.

Why does the internet bring out so many uninformed fools?

[Downthestretch55]

[QUOTE=Downthestretch55]

Here we go, it's Nixon's fault that Jimmy Carter got to pay for the Vietnam War that Kennedy or Johnson initiated.
Afgahnistan is lost ??? What a news flash ! Does Kharzaid and/or the Taliban know that yet ??
Iraq COULD be another loss if it depended on the likes of you to fight it. In 1942, America had lost Pearl Harbor; the entire Phillipines; Wake Island. England had lost Singapore and Rommel was marching across Africa. YOU would have said...."the war is lost".
No, War aint great (I've been there; have you?); but Defeatism is much much worse.
Indep Geo,
You really must do some reading.
1) Yes, Kennedy sent advisors, Johnson escalated Viet Nam. Nixon perpetuated it. Carpet bombed Hanoi, invaded Cambodia...geesh...read up.
It's not for me to inform you of history.
2) Current events: Osama Bin Laden has yet to be captured. Two districts closest to Kabul are again controlled by the Taliban. The opium crop is the biggest ever. And Kharzai can't leave his capital city to venture into his country...sounds like a victory to me!
3) Iraq is in a state of civil war. 80% of Iraquis want the US out. Seems to me that instead of creating fewer terrorists, current policies have created many more. Oh! right...we've found the wmd's right?

[Independent George]

Not a threat at all. Dont be so paranoid. I meant "be prepared" as in "know your topic" unlike your brooklynite fool pal.

For the record he didnt answer anything. So i am doing to him what he does to others. I am not letting him "spin" out of an obvious incorrect statement. Actually, it would be "statements" plural because the whole silly post was completely inaccurate.

I will say that politics certainly makes strange bedfellows. its interesting who people are from site to site. Of course, from what i hear, you are the master of changing screen id's.

Oooops... Ive gotta Scooch!


There's about 50 people from the "other forum" here.......I take it, you included; or maybe you had me pegged on sunday.
Dalakhani, from Wash DC...yeh,right.

[dalakhani]

There's about 50 people from the "other forum" here.......I take it, you included; or maybe you had me pegged on sunday.
Dalakhani, from Wash DC...yeh,right.

Never posted on any "other forums" but ive been getting pms about you since yesterday. They said "watch out- next he will start having conversations with himself"- whatever that means.

Just be yourself.

[Independent George]

Never posted on any "other forums" but ive been getting pms about you since yesterday. They said "watch out- next he will start having conversations with himself"- whatever that means.

Just be yourself.


Hmmmmmmmmmm, conversations with himself. Interesting concept !!! Can't get too much intelligent converastion...ya know what I'm sayin' ?

Pm's about me all day !!!! Thats fantastic. I'd love to know who feels I'm that important.Maybe YOU can PM me that info, and we can all bury the hatchet. I mean I feel I owe those who have taken precious time out of their day to write about little ole me.

[Ruffian2]

Hey Bold, I stumbled on something you might be interested in! I just noticed they're having night classes at the local college about the Congo for those "uninformed" Americans.

Perhaps after that, you could give me some dance lessons. You seem especially apt at dancing around an issue.

[irishtrekker]

The whole Congo situation makes me sick. Around 4 million people dead, and no meaningful action from any of the global powers. Even from a self-interest perspective, you'd think we'd care because further instability in Africa could create more of those Terrorists we're so frantic about...look at what's happening in Somalia, where the next potential group of extremists is rising to power. Not good, man. But Africa's always been on the world's backburner, except when it has something "worth" exploiting, be that oil, diamonds or people. I am not saying there's an easy solution -- anything but, considering how deep and entangled the roots of Africa's woes are -- however, the problems will only get worse if the next generation of children is decimated by this war and ensuing famines & disease.

Anyone here read "King Leopold's Ghost"? It's a good look at the holocaust perpetuated by colonialists in the Congo. Well-researched, good read (more a haunting read, but still good, if you know what I mean). The second half introduced me to it after he came back from a trip to Cape Town that really opened his eyes.

[dalakhani]

Hey Bold, I stumbled on something you might be interested in! I just noticed they're having night classes at the local college about the Congo for those "uninformed" Americans.

Perhaps after that, you could give me some dance lessons. You seem especially apt at dancing around an issue.

LOL. I think there are a couple of more on here that could sit right next to brooklynite fool in class. Im sure he thanks you for the heads up.

Dance teacher....now there is a thought. I think this one has found your calling brooklynite fool.

[boldruler]

Africa is to blame for a lot of its own problems too. It clearly has been exploited by the world powers but the people there have to have some accountability. Their leaders often invited the exploitation of their people.

[irishtrekker]

Not disagreeing with you on that at all. Just saying that if 4 million people were dying in a developed part of the world, we'd (as in, the rest of the developed world) probably take notice.

[boldruler]

Not disagreeing with you on that at all. Just saying that if 4 million people were dying in a developed part of the world, we'd (as in, the rest of the developed world) probably take notice.

Absolutely. But you can't blame everything on Republicans. What Bill Clinton allowed to happen in Rwanda was unforgivable. Worst thing our government has allowed to happen in a long time.

[irishtrekker]

Hold on, do you see the words Republican or conservative anywhere in my post??? I wasn't talking exclusively about the current administration!

I hold all of us culpable, whatever our political stripes. We have all failed here.