Gulfstream Sat. Race 1

[robfla]

Shes All Eltish....very impressive first run on turf....5:1 is a great price..hopefully can control the pace and hold off the pletcher runner late

[hurricanefrank]

Shes All Eltish....very impressive first run on turf....5:1 is a great price..hopefully can control the pace and hold off the pletcher runner late
She looked good breaking mdn but facing winners first time is tall task and may have company on the chooch. I think #7 Irish Bride (10-1) rates a look.

[blackthroatedwind]

These MLs at Gulfstream have been very poor. Wasn't Commentator like 8:5 the other day?

She's All Eltish is less likely to be 5:1 today than I am to do a 360 tomahawk dunk at the basketball court in the park today.

[blackthroatedwind]

She looked good breaking mdn but facing winners first time is tall task and may have company on the chooch. I think #7 Irish Bride (10-1) rates a look.

Irish Bride's last race was dreadful. I suggest you watch the replay.

[swedejxn]

return to paradise....

[hurricanefrank]

Irish Bride's last race was dreadful. I suggest you watch the replay.
Can't quibble with you there. I was on her that day. Considering betting her back today given she will catch a firm course vs the bog upon which she made her turf debut and may not have liked.

[Coach Pants]

Shes All Eltish....very impressive first run on turf....5:1 is a great price..hopefully can control the pace and hold off the pletcher runner late
I don't think she'll be 5-1. Definitely looks like the one to beat. Freakstein could give her some trouble on the lead, however.

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

its all wise cookie

[declansharbor]

Anyone think Steinbrenner is a place and show bettor??

[Coach Pants]

Race 2
Ex
5,6
1,5,6

tri
5
1,6
1,2,4,6

[GPK]

people gonna realize that Lezcano is a decent turf rider one of these days...

[Coach Pants]

Yeah he made a good decision to stay inside. He was helped out by Castro's stupidity also.
Castro kind of sucks. He pressed the pace too early in a turf race yesterday and gave Lezcano the win.

[GPK]

I know Lezcano riding at Tampa is completely different from riding at Gulf, but I have watched him for years and always felt he a very good sense of timing on the grass.

[Coach Pants]

I know Lezcano riding at Tampa is completely different from riding at Gulf, but I have watched him for years and always felt he a very good sense of timing on the grass.
He's an underrated grass rider. He's having a solid meet so far.

[blackthroatedwind]

Eddie Castro may get lucky occasionally and ride a good horse but he has clearly demonstrated he's a minor league rider.

[GPK]

Eddie Castro may get lucky occasionally and ride a good horse but he has clearly demonstrated he's a minor league rider.


maybe some of it could have been the hype surrounding Miesques Approval and his 2 wins at boxcar odds aboard him. Breeders Cup and SUnshine Millions..right?

[the_fat_man]

Eddie Castro may get lucky occasionally and ride a good horse but he has clearly demonstrated he's a minor league rider.

I particularly enjoyed his PERSONAL battle with Sharp Susan: choke her down no matter what.

[hurricanefrank]

Eddie Castro may get lucky occasionally and ride a good horse but he has clearly demonstrated he's a minor league rider.
Totally agree. We don't see him in NY at BEL or STGA during the summer for good reason.

[SentToStud]

That's a joke. A couple bad weeks to start Gulf. He can ride.

Name someone, anyone, who is either 23 years old or off the bug just 18 months who has done what he has.

Pretty short list.

Thanks for the laugh.

[blackthroatedwind]

I had no idea how many winners he was lucky enough to have been given the mount on. He could have won fifty races so far for all I know. Hell, Norberto Arroyo won three races the other day. There were probably people that thought that makes him a good rider. Forget about the fact that he got DQ'd on another easy winner because of his ineptitude and blew the 8th race by a head on a horse three lengths the best. He was lucky enough to have been put on five winners. He won with three of them. He sucks. Just like Eddie Castro. He sucks. He has absolutely no savy. He sends into needless speed duels. He doesn't know the definition of saving ground or waiting patiently. He's a minor league rider. Period. Laugh all you want. He's a B or C level rider that happens to ride in a place that gets some A horses ( and A riders ) during the winter because of the weather. He's a complete amateur.

[SentToStud]

I'm laughing a bit harder now.

I think he's good. And getting better. Is he top 5-Saratoga quality (or however else an "A" rider is so defined)? No, not yet.

I don't know many 23 year old riders who are especially savvy or who do not go through a period of having their inexperience exposed vs a very good group of riders.

He's better than Talamo, better than Rose, better than Mike Baze, better than Garcia.

He is no Norberto Arroyo.

[blackthroatedwind]

You're a loyal person to your surroundings. I respect that. I think it's an admirable quality.

He's an amateur. Maybe he'll get better. It's possible. He will have to begin riding completely differently than he rides now. He might. Right now he's a hinderance to the chances of any horse he rides. I'm sure he gets many very live mounts at Calder. He probably wins with many less than he should. He's bad.

[Thoroughbred Fan]

My personal favorite turf rider is Horatio Karamanos.

[SentToStud]

You're a loyal person to your surroundings. I respect that. I think it's an admirable quality.

He's an amateur. Maybe he'll get better. It's possible. He will have to begin riding completely differently than he rides now. He might. Right now he's a hinderance to the chances of any horse he rides. I'm sure he gets many very live mounts at Calder. He probably wins with many less than he should. He's bad.

No, I'm not loyal... just live here now.

He hasn't ridden Calder full-time for two years. Just late Nov/Dec like a lot of the better ones.

Don't be fooled by a few weeks of this meet. Check his numbers for '07 including Monmouth, Belmont fall and how he finished '07 in $$ won.

Very good young rider on his way up.

[blackthroatedwind]

No, I'm not loyal... just live here now.

He hasn't ridden Calder full-time for two years. Just late Nov/Dec like a lot of the better ones.

Don't be fooled by a few weeks of this meet. Check his numbers for '07 including Monmouth, Belmont fall and how he finished '07 in $$ won.

Very good young rider on his way up.

We'll have to agree to disagree on him. What I've seen from him has been reckless impatience and a lot of premature and wide moves.

But, like you said, he's young. So even in disagreeing with you about his riding I can certainly agree that he has time to improve. I also admit that I'm hypercritical of riders.

[the_fat_man]

I also admit that I'm hypercritical of riders.


I don't think this is true. Anyone who watches races closely over a period of time, be it someone who has ridden, trained or otherwise, realizes what works and what doesn't work. Not only in terms of winning races and strategy but also in terms of abuse to the horse, and, flat out common sense. And, as the subtleties of the race riding part of the game reveal themselves, the small margin between winning and losing becomes apparent.

And it gets annoying, to say the least, when jockeys not only screw up repeatedly on the 'little' things but continually make glaring errors.

The game itself is incredibly behind the times. Other sports have coaches and support staffs that spend countless hours watching tape and planning strategy. Racing has a (more often than not clueless ---I write this confidently as these guys continue riding back jocks that blow races, costing them money) trainer giving instructions to an even more clueless jockey, while the jockey agent does everything BUT watch tape and offer advice as to how to improve. How can this model ever be successful or anything but frustrating?

I'm at the point these days where I just pass races in which I like a horse being ridden by a screwup jock, and, sure enough, the jock screws up. It's that obvious.

[blackthroatedwind]

I agree with a lot of that.

I am amazed at how little trainers seem to get it and often ride back riders who have screwed them over and over again. There's nothing like watching a trainer and rider walking back after a race and laughing....just moments after the rider has screwed him and his entire staff out of a much better performance from the horse. I see it all the time.

Many of these riders seem to have no game plan or awareness of the racetrack. They simply go where the horse takes them. This is why Dominguez can dominate the winter meet. Sure he gets choice mounts much of the time but he also rides intelligently for the most part....while his competition has their head up their collective ass.

As far as jockey agents helping riders....well, assuming they even understood, which is debateable, the riders for the most part would never listen to them. That's just another reason they continue to make the same mistakes over and over again. They have the " have you ever ridden a horse " attitude to the extreme and for the most part are loathe to listen to anything anyone tells them.

The riding colonies are often so poor these days that competence is confused for excellence.