Funny, Considering the Number of Entries I Thought He Retired Years Ago

[blackthroatedwind]

I got the following earth shattering, and self-serving, news this morning.....



Michael Dickinson will not be applying for a Trainers License in 2008



I need 100% of my time to concentrate on Tapeta Footings. I spent most of last winter overseas and 50% of my time this summer visiting Tapeta installations in 5 countries, which obviously leaves little time for training. I have been concerned for sometime about the welfare of horses racing on unsuitable surfaces and really want repay the horse in my own small way.

[GPK]

I got the following earth shattering, and self-serving, news this morning.....



Michael Dickinson will not be applying for a Trainers License in 2008



I need 100% of my time to concentrate on Tapeta Footings. I spent most of last winter overseas and 50% of my time this summer visiting Tapeta installations in 5 countries, which obviously leaves little time for training. I have been concerned for sometime about the welfare of horses racing on unsuitable surfaces and really want repay the horse in my own small way.


so will his horses be drinking more or less beer now?

[Danzig]

you mean no more stories upon stories about dickinson sticking his finger in the mud at a track? how will the sport survive?

[Riot]

I've always liked Dickinson. A legendary jumps trainer. I like that the welfare of the horse has always been his first emphasis, from the setup of his stable, to his gallops, and his work on developing Tapeta.

[The Bid]

The guy won about 1 race every 5 months with a full barn. Im sure he will be sorely missed

Welfare of his horses, maybe that would explain why his runners averaged about 4 starts a year. That or the great surface they trained over

[Riot]

Well then you guys should be happy he's gone, and not around clouding your forms with horses to readily bet against ;)

[Coach Pants]

Well then you guys should be happy he's gone, and not around clouding your forms with horses to readily bet against ;)
So when did you join PETA?

[slotdirt]

Before someone reminds me I need to let it go, I'm sure A Huevo really appreciated how Dickinson had his welfare in mind when he ran over the sloppiest track in history off a year long layoff in the 2005 WV Breeders Classic.

[Riot]

So when did you join PETA?

That statement makes no contextual sense whatsoever.

[ArlJim78]

count me as one who didn't know he was still training.

[Coach Pants]

That statement makes no contextual sense whatsoever.
Coming from someone who used welfare and jumps trainer in the same post I'll take that as a compliment.

[Riot]

Coming from someone who used welfare and jumps trainer in the same post I'll take that as a compliment.

Ahhh ... so you think jumping horses is cruel?

[Coach Pants]

Ahhh ... so you think jumping horses is cruel?

I have a problem with you speaking for Dickinson. His first priority is the welfare of his horses? Really? Let's be honest with ourselves...if his first priority was the welfare of horses he wouldn't be in a business where they are put at risk.

[blackthroatedwind]

Let's be honest with ourselves...if his first priority was the welfare of horses he wouldn't be in a business where they are put at risk.


Tough to argue with this.

Dickinson's first priority is to make money. There is nothing wrong with this. However, this is the important point that seems to be being glossed over. Mr. Dickinson can, does, and will make a great deal of money from the proliferation of synthetic surfaces. His second priority is to enable his first priority to be successful.

The overall welfare of horses is way down the actual list of his priorities.

[Riot]

I have a problem with you speaking for Dickinson.

I obviously didn't speak for Dickinson. I most obviously spoke my own opinion, based upon my own observations, when I said, "I've .... "

His first priority is the welfare of his horses? Really? Let's be honest with ourselves...if his first priority was the welfare of horses he wouldn't be in a business where they are put at risk.

I asked you if you thought jumping horses was cruel. You haven't answered directly. Do you think so, or not? Your reply above is confusing: do you think racing horses (not over jumps) is cruel, or not?

[Riot]

Dickinson's first priority is to make money. There is nothing wrong with this. However, this is the important point that seems to be being glossed over. Mr. Dickinson can, does, and will make a great deal of money from the proliferation of synthetic surfaces. His second priority is to enable his first priority to be successful.

The overall welfare of horses is way down the actual list of his priorities.

So you maintain Dickinson's initial development of Tapeta over the years was not initiated nor based upon his concern for track conditions that horses would be racing over, that it was simply his getting on the bandwagon years ago, with the realization that someday tracks would want synthetic surfaces, and he would then be in a position to profit from that?

[Coach Pants]

I obviously didn't speak for Dickinson. I most obviously spoke my own opinion, based upon my own observations, when I said, "I've .... "



I asked you if you thought jumping horses was cruel. You haven't answered directly. Do you think so, or not? Your reply above is confusing: do you think racing horses (not over jumps) is cruel, or not?
Yes it can be a cruel sport. Please tell me otherwise. I need a good laugh today.

[blackthroatedwind]

So you maintain Dickinson's initial development of Tapeta over the years was not initiated nor based upon his concern for track conditions that horses would be racing over, that it was simply his getting on the bandwagon years ago, with the realization that someday tracks would want synthetic surfaces, and he would then be in a position to profit from that?


I think they may go hand in hand.

Frankly, a great deal of things were said about synthetic surfaces when they were introduced to racing that have been proven to be completely untrue. And, this is in just the first couple of years.

If the Tapeta surface was so kind to horses how come Mr. Dickinson's horses make less starts overall than any other trainer's horses on the entire planet?

[Riot]

Yes it can be a cruel sport. Please tell me otherwise. I need a good laugh today.

Yes, jump racing can be a cruel sport, as can flat racing, as can barrel racing or riding horses over jumps in a show ring.

But either flat or jump racing (or other horse sports) can also not be "cruel" to the horse at all, unless one believes the essential nature of any horse sport - that being man utilizing the horse within them - is cruel by definition.

That's the PETA viewpoint, btw.

[Coach Pants]

Yes, jump racing can be a cruel sport, as can flat racing, as can barrel racing or riding horses over jumps in a show ring.

But either flat or jump racing (or other horse sports) can also not be "cruel" to the horse at all, unless one believes the essential nature of any horse sport - that being man utilizing the horse within them - is cruel by definition.

That's the PETA viewpoint, btw.

PETA's viewpoint goes deeper than that. They want the sport banned.

I don't want it banned. I just want people to stop trying to pretty the sport up as something it's not. Just be real and accept the fact that you enjoy a sport that can be cruel to an animal. It doesn't make you evil, it makes you human.

[Riot]

Frankly, a great deal of things were said about synthetic surfaces when they were introduced to racing that have been proven to be completely untrue. And, this is in just the first couple of years.

First, I think that one has to separate out the rumored promises and public discussion of synthetic surfaces ("they said no injuries, but a horse broke down and died", etc) with what the manufacturer's have actually maintained about them. Those opinions and statements we read are rarely one and the same.

Additionally I think it's important not to forget that synthetic surfaces were all developed based upon the physics we know about what can contribute to injury in the racehorse, in an attempt to mitigate those factors we can control.

As an aside, Dickinson is the only trainer I have ever seen that has made the following type of blanket statement (this is on his web site, referencing the Tapeta surface he uses on his farm):

"Dickinson is so confident of the surface that if a horse has a chip, fracture, or quarter crack while in training at Tapeta (TM) Farm, he will pay for the surgery to be done at the University of Pennsylvania New Bolton Center."

I've never seen any trainer, no matter where he is training, make a statement even remotely like that about the horses in his care.

If the Tapeta surface was so kind to horses how come Mr. Dickinson's horses make less starts overall than any other trainer's horses on the entire planet?

I haven't a clue. Are the horses not starting due to injury?

[blackthroatedwind]

Actually, probably the biggest fabrication told about synthetic surfaces was that they would be maintenance free. That has proven to be completely false.

As for why Dickinson's horses don't race......I have no idea. I just use the facts....and the facts are that his horses rarely, if ever, race. It hardly seems like a stretch to at least accept the possibility that Tapeta has not added to their physical welfare.

[Riot]

PETA's viewpoint goes deeper than that. They want the sport banned.

PETA wants no animals to be "owned" by humans. I have spent much money and many hours fighting PETA and their ilk.

I don't want it banned. I just want people to stop trying to pretty the sport up as something it's not.

Please point out where I tried to "pretty the sport up as something it's not"?

By simply saying I admired a jumps trainer for his publically stated views on the care of the horse?

Which caused you to say I supported the PETA viewpoint?

Fine. I like jump racing, you do not.

Just be real and accept the fact that you enjoy a sport that can be cruel to an animal. It doesn't make you evil, it makes you human.

Where have I said I don't think the sport can be cruel to an animal? In fact, I just said the opposite.

Really, Pillow, if you want to start a debate, the accepted premise is to disagree with something somebody has actually said.

[Coach Pants]

Where have I said I don't think the sport can be cruel to an animal? In fact, I just said the opposite.

Really, Pillow, if you want to start a debate, the accepted premise is to disagree with something somebody has actually said.
I did disagree with what you said about Dickinson.

Now I'm done with your elitist attitude. Go talk down to someone else.

[Riot]

Actually, probably the biggest fabrication told about synthetic surfaces was that they would be maintenance free. That has proven to be completely false.

I've never seen any manufacturer call their surface maintenance-free. What I have seen is a claim to decreased maintenance, which appears to be true.

As for why Dickinson's horses don't race......I have no idea. I just use the facts....and the facts are that his horses rarely, if ever, race. It hardly seems like a stretch to at least accept the possibility that Tapeta has not added to their physical welfare.

I'm quite willing to accept that possibility, if we know that his horses are not racing because they are injured, cannot be brought fit to race, etc.

Do horses training over any artifical surface have more or less starts, generally, than those that train over conventional dirt? We'll see.

Perhaps some tracks out there (Arlington, Turfway) have some stats on number of starts per horse per meet, but I've never seen any published.

Curlin and Street Sense did well by training over artificial surfaces this year.

[Riot]

I did disagree with what you said about Dickinson.

Now I'm done with your elitist attitude. Go talk down to someone else.

Okay, you win!

[blackthroatedwind]

.



Curlin and Street Sense did well by training over artificial surfaces this year.




So, you picked two of the best horses in training and this is some sort of proof?

Oh, wait, you even got this wrong. Curlin spent the summer and fall training on the Oklahoma surface in Saratoga.

I'm not sure why you've tried to turn this conversation into a discussion of synthetic surfaces. However, I'm not particularly interested in having one. Unlike most people I have next to no data on which to make any real conclusions. So far, to me, it seems like a confusing surface that has made no positive contribution to the game whatsoever. Perhaps, and hopefully, that will change. I am open to all possibilities.

[Riot]

So, you picked two of the best horses in training and this is some sort of proof? Oh, wait, you even got this wrong. Curlin spent the summer and fall training on the Oklahoma surface in Saratoga.

No it wasn't intended as some sort of "proof", it was just a casual observation. And you're right, Curlin did spend his summer/fall at Saratoga, not on artifical surfaces.

I'm not sure why you've tried to turn this conversation into a discussion of synthetic surfaces.

Wasn't particularly, only reponding when it was brought up by others.

[blackthroatedwind]

No, what was brought up was that Dickinson profits from synthetic surfaces, and that was why he was pushing for them. This was not a criticism of synthetic surfaces, or of Michael Dickinson, as I'm quite sure if any of us were in his particular position we would be behaving similarly.

I also believe that he truly believes in these surfaces, and he certainly knows more than I do about them, but I was merely pointing out that his motives are not necessarily altruistic. There is nothing wrong with that.....but it does seem worth pointing out.

[Cajungator26]

The guy won about 1 race every 5 months with a full barn. Im sure he will be sorely missed

Welfare of his horses, maybe that would explain why his runners averaged about 4 starts a year. That or the great surface they trained over

Speaking of 'winners', didn't Jamie Sanders get her 7th win out of 247 on Sunday?

[brockguy]

Dickinson's achievment of training the first 5 runners home in the 1983 Cheltenham Gold Cup was voted as the greatest training by Racing Post readers..so there is quite a few nice write ups about him on their site..

[my miss storm cat]

No, what was brought up was that Dickinson profits from synthetic surfaces, and that was why he was pushing for them. This was not a criticism of synthetic surfaces, or of Michael Dickinson, as I'm quite sure if any of us were in his particular position we would be behaving similarly.

I also believe that he truly believes in these surfaces, and he certainly knows more than I do about them, but I was merely pointing out that his motives are not necessarily altruistic. There is nothing wrong with that.....but it does seem worth pointing out.
I've never gotten into the surface debate. I leave that for the experts. I don't have enough knowledge or perspective.

It's interesting to click on Sporting Life and see 5 pieces on his retirement...

http://www.sportinglife.com/racing/news/

When I was new to racing, when Smarty and Rock Hard Ten and Tapit were pracitcally the only names i knew, I remember reading that Tapit was slightly injured.

I remembered seeing this guy - I didn't have a clue who he was - poking his finger in the ground. It didn't phase me... I was new and thought well maybe they all do this before races. When you have no point of reference nothing seems too surprising.

Anyway, I googled Tapeta cause I had heard about it and wrote a quick email saying sorry he was hurt and that i hoped he'd be okay cause he was a lot of fun to watch.

He was too... the way he'd look off into the stands. :D

I didn't expect to hear back... why would I? I just wanted to let him know his horse was thought of.

He wrote back immediately, thanked me for my interest and asked me a few questions...

I was surprised.

I answered, asked him some stuff, and he wrote back again asking for my address.

He sent me a package with signed Da Hoss win pictures, some programs, other stuff and a really sweet letter. He emailed a few more times, telling me about a 2YO he had named Bellamy Road..... stuff like that.

I'm not trying to to say anything other than he seemed like a really nice guy... kind-hearted and decent. He talked about his horses like they were his children and to a complete stranger, and I kinda wondered, in time, if they didn't seem to race that much because he babied them or feared for them. I know it sounds stupid.

If nothing else I respect him for trying to change something he saw a problem with. Actions vs words... right?

Again, I'm not qualified to give an opinion on Tapeta or any synthetic surface. I'm just a fan, he was very kind, and I wish him well. :)

http://www.tapeta.com/

[Cajungator26]

I've never gotten into the surface debate. I leave that for the experts. I don't have enough knowledge or perspective.

It's interesting to click on Sporting Life and see 5 pieces on his retirement...

http://www.sportinglife.com/racing/news/

When I was new to racing, when Smarty and Rock Hard Ten and Tapit were pracitcally the only names i knew, I remember reading that Tapit was slightly injured.

I remembered seeing this guy - I didn't have a clue who he was - poking his finger in the ground. It didn't phase me... I was new and thought well maybe they all do this before races. When you have no point of reference nothing seems too surprising.

Anyway, I googled Tapeta cause I had heard about it and wrote a quick email saying sorry he was hurt and that i hoped he'd be okay cause he was a lot of fun to watch.

He was too... the way he'd look off into the stands. :D

I didn't expect to hear back... why would I? I just wanted to let him know his horse was thought of.

He wrote back immediately, thanked me for my interest and asked me a few questions...

I was surprised.

I answered, asked him some stuff, and he wrote back again asking for my address.

He sent me a package with singed Da Hoss win pictures, some programs, other stuff and a really sweet letter. He emailed a few more times, telling me about a 2YO he had named Bellamy Road..... stuff like that.

I'm not trying to to say anything other than he seemed like a really nice guy... kind-hearted and decent. He talked about his horses like they were his children and to a complete stranger, and I kinda wondered, in time, if they didn't seem to race that much because he babied them or feared for them. I know it sounds stupid.

If nothing else I respect him for trying to change something he saw a problem with. Actions vs words... right?

Again, I'm not qualified to give an opinion on Tapeta or any synthetic surface. I'm just a fan, he was very kind, and I wish him well. :)

http://www.tapeta.com/

That was very nice of him. Thanks for sharing this story. :)

[sumitas]

Wonderful story. I happen to believe the man when he says he wants to do what is best for the horse. And if he can make money from his improved Tapeta surface , that is well and good. I like that he jogs barefoot on aw surfaces to help him determine the cushion.

A week before the Breeders Cup Keeneland was deluged by 4 inches of rain overnight. The next day the polytrack looked as though it had never rained. Follow that up by the dirt at Monmouth and one can see the consistency and fairness of the all weather.

2 year old Sonoran Desert won last week for Sanders.

Bring on Tapeta to NY.

[Benevolus]

This guy is probably making millions. Training horses is no easy job and doesn't pay that well unless you are one of the big guys. He obviously was never going to make millions training like a Pletcher, so it was a smart move.

What I really like about the guy is he is a true horseman. He could easily have pulled a Pletcher and just had assistants do everything.

[Cajungator26]

2 year old Sonoran Desert won last week for Sanders.


She had a claimer win on Sunday also... can't remember the name of the horse, though.

[GPK]

She had a claimer win on Sunday also... can't remember the name of the horse, though.


Needanewdyejob?

[freddymo]

Yes Dickinson is making big money on Synthetic surfaces. Make no mistake he is devoted to horses and there welfare

[Antitrust32]

I think they may go hand in hand.

Frankly, a great deal of things were said about synthetic surfaces when they were introduced to racing that have been proven to be completely untrue. And, this is in just the first couple of years.

If the Tapeta surface was so kind to horses how come [B]Mr. Dickinson's horses make less starts overall than any other trainer's horses on the entire planet?

even more than mr frankel?

[Riot]

It's interesting to click on Sporting Life and see 5 pieces on his retirement...

Thanks for that. Quite a lifetime of achievement.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Talking to Dickinson on the phone was the single most miserable thing I endured in my days as a racing reporter.

[The Bid]

Why because you couldnt understand him, or because hes such a buffoon

[VOL JACK]

Speaking of 'winners', didn't Jamie Sanders get her 7th win out of 247 on Sunday?

Please tell me U didn't just mention J. SANDERS and WINNERS in the same sentence.

[Danzig]

Speaking of 'winners', didn't Jamie Sanders get her 7th win out of 247 on Sunday?


she's on a roll.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Why because you couldnt understand him, or because hes such a buffoon

He was as ridiculous as it gets.

I had the audacity to ask him questions about what kind of an impact his surface might have on bettors - if he expected one-dimensional speed horses might struggle to reproduce their dirt form - or if turf horses who've struggled on dirt in the past might not struggle on his form of synthetic. Stuff like that.

In a hilarious British accent he starts screaming "You're asking the wrong questions!" "This is ENTIRELY about safety!" "everything else is minor!"

He's bananas on the telephone. In person he was quite the opposite - and decent to talk to.

[The Bid]

Why would he think impacting betting would matter in horseracing.

Whats harder to do, talk to Dickenson on the phone, or watch Tapits entire 6 race career on tape

[NoChanceToDance]

Dickinson was and probably still is a great trainer. Not many others could do what he did in England, and the main way he did that was by caring for his horses and giving the best treatment possible for them.

His interest in breating a new surface was first and foremost in the interests of the horses welfare, he was one of the first to see that dirt was on a downfall and couldn't be around forever. Sure, he will have made money from it, but why would a man like himself be bothered about making all this money when he is already a very rich man? Maybe the surface hasn't turned out to be as good expected, but there is always time.

Like mmsc has said, he is a very nice and generous man. An individual who is inlove with the sport but realises that there is more in life than to be training horses. He has already achieved more than any other trainer can do in a life time.

I respect him greatly and i offer him all the best for the future.

The people who are saying jump racing is cruel...... you obviously know very little about it to have that opinion. That is all i can and will say on that matter.

[saucon17]

I never forget the time when Dickinson hired a private investigator to follow H. James Bond shipping horses from I think Payson Park to Gulfstream Park for Breeders Cup in 1999, because he thought Bond was up to no good.

[Coach Pants]

His interest in breating a new surface was first and foremost in the interests of the horses welfare, he was one of the first to see that dirt was on a downfall and couldn't be around forever.
So there has been a drastic change in the quality of dirt? LOL!!

It's the breed that is going downhill. Synthetic surfaces are a bandaid to a sport that is bleeding profusely.

The people who are saying jump racing is cruel...... you obviously know very little about it to have that opinion. That is all i can and will say on that matter.

This is ridiculous. So basically you are saying that horses enjoy being whipped. Outstanding.

[The Bid]

Hiring a PI to follow James Bond to gulfstream sounds like it should have been a movie.

We are talking about the "Mad Genius"

[NoChanceToDance]

This is ridiculous. So basically you are saying that horses enjoy being whipped. Outstanding.

Last time i looked, horses were whipped on the flat, too :rolleyes:

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Whats harder to do, talk to Dickenson on the phone, or watch Tapits entire 6 race career on tape

A six race career for a Dickinson trained runner is a remarkable display of longevity.

When the favorite Cantrel fatally broke down in the first race ever run over a Tapeta surface - Dickinson actually pointed out later that night that the horse "had been training on dirt and not a synthetic" - and "if she had been training on a synthetic you don't know if this would have happened."

He's not exactly a man of straight talk - that's for sure.

[The Bid]

TID, have you noticed the amount of horses who have been eased "but walked off" in the charts in Nor Cal. When did the chart caller start using that phrase, eased, but walked off with such regularity. Fortunately theres only been one horse breakdown in the afternoons, 4 in the mornings.

Yes 6 races for a Dickenson runner is outrageous. Maybe Bond should have been following him around, thats 4 races more than his normal staters average

[Coach Pants]

Last time i looked, horses were whipped on the flat, too :rolleyes:
Wow you're observant.

[Danzig]

Dickinson was and probably still is a great trainer. Not many others could do what he did in England, and the main way he did that was by caring for his horses and giving the best treatment possible for them.

His interest in breating a new surface was first and foremost in the interests of the horses welfare, he was one of the first to see that dirt was on a downfall and couldn't be around forever. Sure, he will have made money from it, but why would a man like himself be bothered about making all this money when he is already a very rich man? Maybe the surface hasn't turned out to be as good expected, but there is always time.

Like mmsc has said, he is a very nice and generous man. An individual who is inlove with the sport but realises that there is more in life than to be training horses. He has already achieved more than any other trainer can do in a life time.

I respect him greatly and i offer him all the best for the future.

The people who are saying jump racing is cruel...... you obviously know very little about it to have that opinion. That is all i can and will say on that matter.

what, rich people don't want more money? sheik mo is loaded, but he's still after the breeding bucks, rather than the racing aspect of t'breds.

[paisjpq]

Why would he think impacting betting would matter in horseracing.

Whats harder to do, talk to Dickenson on the phone, or watch Tapits entire 6 race career on tape


worse is seeing all his babies.....

[The Indomitable DrugS]

what, rich people don't want more money?

Not me.

In fact, I kindly just gave $100 million back to my city.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,311020,00.html

[NoChanceToDance]

what, rich people don't want more money? sheik mo is loaded, but he's still after the breeding bucks, rather than the racing aspect of t'breds.

Big difference between someone like the Sheikh and Michael Dickinson.

[Danzig]

Not me.

In fact, I kindly just gave $100 million back to my city.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,311020,00.html

what a guy!

[VOL JACK]

Not me.

In fact, I kindly just gave $100 million back to my city.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,311020,00.html

Very nice of you, maybe they can build a couple decent restaurants there now.

[freddymo]

No, what was brought up was that Dickinson profits from synthetic surfaces, and that was why he was pushing for them. This was not a criticism of synthetic surfaces, or of Michael Dickinson, as I'm quite sure if any of us were in his particular position we would be behaving similarly.

I also believe that he truly believes in these surfaces, and he certainly knows more than I do about them, but I was merely pointing out that his motives are not necessarily altruistic. There is nothing wrong with that.....but it does seem worth pointing out.

Wow you being fair thats a switch. Glad the Dr. has your script program finally balanced.

Obviously Dickinson is passsionate about his baby as any inventor is of his or her frankenstein. I suggest Sir Dickinson is unwilling to use some medication that other frequent and that is the reason for 7 races every 15 months not tapeta?

[reese]

Before someone reminds me I need to let it go, I'm sure A Huevo really appreciated how Dickinson had his welfare in mind when he ran over the sloppiest track in history off a year long layoff in the 2005 WV Breeders Classic.

My thoughts exactly when anyone "extols" the virtues of Dickinson.

How about tied for the worst Wood winner with... Tapit vs Buddha..one and out

[Cannon Shell]

How about tied for the worst Wood winner with... Tapit vs Buddha..one and out
Irgun?

[Scav]

I can't believe no one has mentioned Bellamy Road. Biggest bias/weather induced win in my history of life. A close second is the great Sinister Minister

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Irgun?

Irgun would have dusted the likes of Adonis, Bob and John, and Storm Tower

[The Indomitable DrugS]

I can't believe no one has mentioned Bellamy Road. Biggest bias/weather induced win in my history of life. A close second is the great Sinister Minister

Bellamy Road is light years from being the worst horse to ever win the Wood.

Sinister Minister's Blue Grass win was also FAR more bias induced.

[blackthroatedwind]

I can't believe no one has mentioned Bellamy Road. Biggest bias/weather induced win in my history of life. A close second is the great Sinister Minister


And what great act of nature caused his unbelievable second place finish in the Travers off a virtual four month layoff?

[Scav]

And what great act of nature caused his unbelievable second place finish in the Travers off a virtual four month layoff?

Greatest training job ever is what that was, imo

[paisjpq]

And what great act of nature caused his unbelievable second place finish in the Travers off a virtual four month layoff?
why on earth would you try to be sensible? This is the wrong place for that.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Greatest training job ever is what that was, imo

Repent basically did the same thing - running a strong 2nd beaten a neck or so to Medeglia D' Oro - and I believe only had two published works in between the ILL Derby and Travers.

[The Bid]

They are calling for him to be in the hall of fame in the DRF

[blackthroatedwind]

They are calling for him to be in the hall of fame in the DRF


Dick Jerardi is....not DRF.

[The Bid]

I just read it off the drf website, so I said the drf. How does he figure for the hall of fame.

I can understand Tapit getting in

[blackthroatedwind]

I just read it off the drf website, so I said the drf. How does he figure for the hall of fame.

I can understand Tapit getting in


I agree.......Tapit is a better candidate.

[The Bid]

I bring Tapit and "The Mad Genius" to the wire together. Really tough to separate those two Hall of Fame cadidates. Maybe they both belong

[Danzig]

tapit had more entertainment value.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

I agree.......Tapit is a better candidate.

He did beat Dynever in an epic clash at Mountaineer after all.

[blackthroatedwind]

He did beat Dynever in an epic clash at Mountaineer after all.


That still gives me nightmares.

Of course, great talents like Dynever bring out the very best in their opponents.

[HaloWishingwell]

Great news!! with his disappearance I'll add FLEET RENEE to horse watch

[Antitrust32]

tapit had more entertainment value.

oh hell no. the mad genious is a riot to be around cause he's so out there!

[Danzig]

oh hell no. the mad genious is a riot to be around cause he's so out there!

i just thought the way tapit ran down the home stretch in the wood was one of the funniest things i've ever seen.

[cmorioles]

He did beat Dynever in an epic clash at Mountaineer after all.

That was Soto I thought, not Tapit.

[cmorioles]

I can't believe no one has mentioned Bellamy Road. Biggest bias/weather induced win in my history of life. A close second is the great Sinister Minister

I laughed.

To compare an excellent horse like Bellamy Road to a complete fluke like SM is crazy. Bellamy Road actually ran very well in the Derby.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

That was Soto I thought, not Tapit.

You're right - I tend to get my Dickinson trained 3yo "stars" who have six race careers mixed up a lot!

That was a major disservice to Soto - who won five of his six career starts - as opposed to Tapit who was 3-for-6 and much less horse to boot.

[Danzig]

I laughed.

To compare an excellent horse like Bellamy Road to a complete fluke like SM is crazy. Bellamy Road actually ran very well in the Derby.


bellamy road had excellent races both before and after the wood, it's not as tho he was a one hit wonder.

[Danzig]

I laughed.

To compare an excellent horse like Bellamy Road to a complete fluke like SM is crazy. Bellamy Road actually ran very well in the Derby.

repeat of above...

[Danzig]

You're right - I tend to get my Dickinson trained 3yo "stars" who have six race careers mixed up a lot!

That was a major disservice to Soto - who won five of his six career starts - as opposed to Tapit who was 3-for-6 and much less horse to boot.


i don't like it when tapit is on the back page of my bloodhorse. but it is somewhat amusing.

[Antitrust32]

bellamy road had excellent races both before and after the wood, it's not as tho he was a one hit wonder.


for some reason i though bellamy road was trained by zito?

[cmorioles]

for some reason i though bellamy road was trained by zito?

He was until the end of his career. There was a switch, and the horse never races for the new ridiculous trainer.

[Danzig]

He was until the end of his career. There was a switch, and the horse never races for the new ridiculous trainer.

didn't they give him to sexton...and then i think sexton left steinbrenner. ridiculous taking him from nick in the first place.

[my miss storm cat]

for some reason i though bellamy road was trained by zito?
He was trained by Dickinson first..... :)

[Cajungator26]

Concerning the dangers of jumping horses:

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/services/newspaper/printedition/sunday/localandstate/orl-cfbriefs18_107nov18,0,3218960.story

How sad. :(

[blackthroatedwind]

Making a person who is profiting greatly from synthetic surfaces, as Michael Dickinson is, out to be some kind of saint is beyond ridiculous. It's almost as ridiculous as asserting that dirt has been the cause of injuries in racing, while ignoring the vast array of other reasons, and further suggesting that unproven synthetic surfaces will save horses.

Thank God every racetrack isn't buying this load of bunk.

[Benny Leger]

This whole synthetic racing surface argument reminds me of the 70's when Major League Baseball franchises couldn't switch to "astro-turf" fast enough. Grass was out. "Turf" was the future. Less expensive to maintain, better footing when wet for the players, no double headers needed to make up rain-outs and no more "bad hops". After nearly everyone had swithced to turf, suddenly there were problems no one had forseen. Players blowing out knees, turf toe, turf burns and excessive field temps. during July and August day games. Funny how it has come full circle and nearly all teams have went back to grass fields. What's the old saying about the grass is always.........Hell, I always loved double headers at old Crosley Field anyway.

[sumitas]

Maybe they should install tapeta on baseball fields instead of the dirt.
Giants Stadium has artificial turf plugged in throughout. http://www.giants.com/news/eisen/story.asp?story_id=245
Would that improve a turf surface for racing ?
http://www.fieldturf.com/
Then NYSEG Stadium in Binghamton NY has a NY product. Artificial blades woven throughout the natural grasses.
http://www.clarkcompanies.com/PDF%20Inserts/Binghamton%20Mets%20Stadium%20Inser...pdf

I'd like to see NY have an aw surface and state of the art turf course also.

Aq should have the inner safe aw. And Belmont should have their inner turf a safe state of the art artificial/natural blend turf of some sort. How exciting would that make the racing in NY ?

[Riot]

Making a person who is profiting greatly from synthetic surfaces, as Michael Dickinson is, out to be some kind of saint is beyond ridiculous. It's almost as ridiculous as asserting that dirt has been the cause of injuries in racing, while ignoring the vast array of other reasons, and further suggesting that unproven synthetic surfaces will save horses.

Thank God every racetrack isn't buying this load of bunk.

You can go to PubMed, and enter as search terms thoroughbred and then alternately track, fracture, catastrophic, etc. going back to the early 1990's, to see the science behind why synthetic surfaces have been developed.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez

Here's something from 1995:
Am J Vet Res. 2005 Apr;66(4):589-95.Links
Relationships between hoof-acceleration patterns of galloping horses and dynamic properties of the track.Ratzlaff MH, Wilson PD, Hutton DV, Slinker BK.Department of Veterinary and Comparative Anatomy, Pharmacology, and Physiology, College of Veterinary Medicine, Washington State University, Pullman, WA 99164, USA.

OBJECTIVE: To define relationships between hoof-acceleration patterns of galloping horses and dynamic properties of the track. ANIMALS: 8 Thoroughbred horses without lameness. PROCEDURE: Acceleration-time curves were recorded by use of accelerometers attached to each hoof as each horse galloped over the track straightaway. Four sessions were conducted for each horse, with the track surface modified by sequentially adding water before each session. These acceleration-time curves were analyzed to determine peak accelerations during the support phase of the stride. Track dynamic properties (hardness, rebound, deceleration rate, rebound rate, and penetration) were recorded with a track-testing device. Moisture content and dry density were measured from soil samples. Stepwise multiple regression was used to identify relationships between hoof-acceleration variables and track dynamic properties. RESULTS: Track rebound rate was most consistently related to hoof variables, especially through an inverse relationship with negative acceleration peaks for all hooves. Also, rebound rate was related to initial acceleration peak during propulsion of the hooves of the forelimb and the nonlead hind limb as well as to the second acceleration peak during propulsion of the lead hooves of the hind limb and nonlead forelimb. CONCLUSIONS AND CLINICAL RELEVANCE: The inverse relationship between track rebound rate and negative acceleration peaks for all hooves reflects the most important dynamic property of a track. Any factor that reduces negative acceleration of the hooves will increase stride efficiency by allowing smoother transition from retardation to propulsion and therefore may be important in determining the safety of racing surfaces.

[blackthroatedwind]

No disrespect, but I'm not really interested in a study from 1995. I'll wait and see how the real life racing plays out. So far, while I find it disasterous as do some enormous players I know, the results seem mixed at best.

[Riot]

Well, believe it or not, synthetic surfaces were not just pulled out of someone's butt (no comments :p ) in order to make money - there is sound reasoning behind them.

You're not anticipating having much fun at next years Breeders' Cup, I imagine ;)

Edit: and you are right, "real life" will be the ultimate test.

[blackthroatedwind]

I'm not thrilled the BC is on synthetic but Cushion Track seems to play very fairly.

[Riot]

You realize SA will be the BC where you hit all the P4's, and have the P6 on multiple tickets ....