Empire Maker as a sire KD 2007 ?

[Secretariat]

if Empire maker was retired at the end of 2003,
then he had some newborns early 2004, they are 1 in 2005, and 2 year olds in 2006, which would mean we should see his colts
run this summer, and perhaps one in the Kd 2007,is this correct ?,, and if so who has the colts, how many are there ?

[Scav]

He is going to be a MONSTER turf sire...MONSTER

[oracle80]

if Empire maker was retired at the end of 2003,
then he had some newborns early 2004, they are 1 in 2005, and 2 year olds in 2006, which would mean we should see his colts
run this summer, and perhaps one in the Kd 2007,is this correct ?,, and if so who has the colts, how many are there ?

Dude,
He bred mares in 2004, they were born in 2005. They are yearlings this year. And they will race in 2007 as two year olds.
What did you think? That horses have a few month gestation period?
His first crop will be 3 yo's in 2008, and since the Prince has one of the finest collections of quality broodmares, I would expect he will sire some very nice horses, although don't expect all of them to be extremely precocious.

[Secretariat]

ya i forgot they needed to gestate, opps !

well then who are the first year crop sires from 2002 that should runs at 2 this year. this summer ???

[oracle80]

ya i forgot they needed to gestate, opps !

well then who are the first year crop sires from 2002 that should runs at 2 this year. this summer ???

They are already running. It wasn't a banner year in terms of new sires that year. One that have been expected to make a splash are:
Came Home
Johannesburg
Jump Start
Yonaguska
Include
among others.

[Secretariat]

who was the derby winner that year, monarchos ?
little busy this am, memory a little off, well who won the derby that year and anything from him ?

[Buffymommy]

Oh I can't wait to see how Came Home does as a daddy! Any of his running now and doing well?

[oracle80]

Oh I can't wait to see how Came Home does as a daddy! Any of his running now and doing well?

Hes already had winners. One in particular was pretty good at keeneland before running back and being nowhere. Since he stood at Farish's place, you can bet he got great mares. I expect him to have quite a few runners.

[Habersham000]

I am excited to see Johannesburg's babies run this year...they should be able to run on anything.

[Pointg5]

Oh I can't wait to see how Came Home does as a daddy! Any of his running now and doing well?

I believe I saw one running at Churhill on Sunday, can't remember how he ran.

[Hoisttheflag]

if Empire maker was retired at the end of 2003,
then he had some newborns early 2004, they are 1 in 2005, and 2 year olds in 2006, which would mean we should see his colts
run this summer, and perhaps one in the Kd 2007,is this correct ?,, and if so who has the colts, how many are there ?


That Travers made me question just how good he was. Not sold on him yet but the bottom on all of his foals will be top of the line.

[Scav]

I am excited to see Johannesburg's babies run this year...they should be able to run on anything.

He hasn't broken his maiden yet I don't think. I saw a couple at Keeneland and I think I saw one entered at Arlington last week, maybe not though

[oracle80]

That Travers made me question just how good he was. Not sold on him yet but the bottom on all of his foals will be top of the line.

Hoist,
Empire maker never ran in the Travers. It never ceases to amaze me how some "breeding experts" can possibly hope to succeed with new stallions if they dont handicap or have a handicapping reference to tell them what the horses story, trips, and sheet numbers were.
You are referencing his Jim Dandy, and it was not a "bad loss", in fact it was an exteremly impressive race.
On that day any good and knowledgable player can tell you that the track at Saratoga that day resembled the Indy 500 speedway. Every horse who made the lead in a dirt race won!!! Throw in that on that day that the rail was GOLDEN!! Empire Maker was given one of the few bad rides that JD Bailey ever gave. He took him back to last behind a moderate pace that Pletcher's horse set while clear under no pressure on the rail. Empire Maker was then forced widest of all while attempting to rally from last and came up about two strides short while closing. They also flew home late in that race. His widest of all rally against an inside speed bias while attempting to run down a very sharp horse who was loose on the lead running with the aid of a powerful bias was VERY IMPRESSIVE!! His sheet number earned in that race was as good as any he ever ran.
To question his talent because of that race is quite ridiculous.

[Secretariat]

2002 derby and preakness winner was War Emblem, (our emblem by lord at war)

[PSH]

Somehow I was always a little disappointed with Empire Maker. After the Fla. Derby and race in NY before the KY Derby i thought he would be the next super horse in the Triple Crown races and first one since Seattle Slew (in my opinion). The Derby was always in question because of that foot injury. I believe that he was not 100% and then he won the Belmont. That said is breeding is obviously incredible with Toussaud as the broodmare (Chester House, Honest Lady, etc).

He should make a great sire....

PSH

[Hoisttheflag]

Hoist,
Empire maker never ran in the Travers. It never ceases to amaze me how some "breeding experts" can possibly hope to succeed with new stallions if they dont handicap or have a handicapping reference to tell them what the horses story, trips, and sheet numbers were.
You are referencing his Jim Dandy, and it was not a "bad loss", in fact it was an exteremly impressive race.
On that day any good and knowledgable player can tell you that the track at Saratoga that day resembled the Indy 500 speedway. Every horse who made the lead in a dirt race won!!! Throw in that on that day that the rail was GOLDEN!! Empire Maker was given one of the few bad rides that JD Bailey ever gave. He took him back to last behind a moderate pace that Pletcher's horse set while clear under no pressure on the rail. Empire Maker was then forced widest of all while attempting to rally from last and came up about two strides short while closing. They also flew home late in that race. His widest of all rally against an inside speed bias while attempting to run down a very sharp horse who was loose on the lead running with the aid of a powerful bias was VERY IMPRESSIVE!! His sheet number earned in that race was as good as any he ever ran.
To question his talent because of that race is quite ridiculous.


I meant his Wood, which I thought gave him his reputation as the next coming of Secretariat. Sorry, I don't have time to reread everything. I thought he was all out to hold off Funny Cide, although most (Frankel included) said he could have won by double digits. Breeders and gamblers use completely different statistics. Sale figures are everything in the breeding game and mean nothing to gamblers. Empire Maker's 100,000 stud fee puts him in elite company with Forestry and he has proven nothing. Quite a few RNA's for his yearlings. His breeding is as good as it gets but he was injury prone and had quite a disappointing racing career. His Belmont wasn't exactly lightning and if I recall correctly he won by quite a small margin. More likely to be an underachiever in the shed than the next AP Indy. Just my opinion though.

[slotdirt]

I think a very underrated freshman and under the radar freshman sire is Gibson County. Considering the rest of the freshman sires out there right now (Officer, Came Home, etc.), Gibson County is leading the nation as I type this in earnings by a freshman sire. Standing in Florida, I think.

[Hoisttheflag]

Somehow I was always a little disappointed with Empire Maker. After the Fla. Derby and race in NY before the KY Derby i thought he would be the next super horse in the Triple Crown races and first one since Seattle Slew (in my opinion). The Derby was always in question because of that foot injury. I believe that he was not 100% and then he won the Belmont. That said is breeding is obviously incredible with Toussaud as the broodmare (Chester House, Honest Lady, etc).

He should make a great sire....

PSH

Most were disappointed by his racing career. Too short and no derby or preakness. FL Derby, Wood, Belmont are all nice but he needed a derby or a couple wins in the summer/fall to be considered great. Soundness in a horse is a big thing and you have to question his.

[Hoisttheflag]

Had the potential to be one of the best we ever had. Nothing but bad luck with this guy.

I don't even know the breeding of the hundreds of horses I've owned and trained, but this guy was a real good horse. So was Coded Warning but he was born without a heart.


"Potential" is not a great word to use when talking about retired horses. Barbaro had the "potential" too, but until they hook up with older horses it is really hard to say how good they are.

[Suffolk Shippers]

He is going to be a MONSTER turf sire...MONSTER

Amen Scav.

[jpops757]

I am excited to see Johannesburg's babies run this year...they should be able to run on anything.
Im not an expert judge of looks but he and Shakspear are the best looking horses I have ever seen. The had the look of a winner. Too bad that we didnt get to see much of him. The few of his kids that I have seen have been a disapointment of course only a small sample so far,

[Hoisttheflag]

I do not have the patience nor the inclination to explain "potential", but I have no problem with it.

Try these:

HoistThe Flag
Ruffian
Hail To Reason
Graustark

I think Ruffian was great. The point I was trying to make is that "potential" isn't really a word you want associated with your horse. Hoisttheflag had "potential" to be the best horse ever, but he wasn't.