Horse Slaughter Revisited

[randallscott35]

Worth Reading!

Editorial about the merits of it on NYTIMES.

Followed by a letter to the editor by Congressmen supporting a ban.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/05/opinion/05weil.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/10/opinion/l10horse.html

[GenuineRisk]

Those were both interesting reads, Randall; thanks for posting the links. Money quote in the first one:

But the fate of less charismatic food animals is also a brutal business. Last year, 150 pigs being shipped from Ohio to a Texas slaughterhouse died after spending up to 72 hours in a truck with no water, food or relief from 95 degree heat. The dispatch of male chicks on an egg farm can be flat-out horrific. The ill treatment of slaughter-bound horses is bad, but it would be worse still if it made us pay less attention to the undue suffering of other food animals.

[randallscott35]

Glad you liked them Nicole---I didn't know many of the facts about Slaughter---nasty business but like anything else, the key to me is how humane it is. I'd like it gone entirely but is that realistic? No.

[GenuineRisk]

Glad you liked them Nicole---I didn't know many of the facts about Slaughter---nasty business but like anything else, the key to me is how humane it is. I'd like it gone entirely but is that realistic? No.

I agree that the best path towards improving things is looking at what is realistic. Animal-rights groups will not likely ever persuade most of America to turn vegetarian, for example, but I bet if they really pushed for more humane conditions for food animals, they could get most people behind them on that. Many European nations have laws in place securing the humane treatment of food animals; I imagine we could follow suit if we really wanted to.

[randallscott35]

If I ever got money--I'd donate to animal cruelty causes before anything else. Kills me....Except Canadian Geese--my weakness, they should be done away with, but not cruelly.

[GenuineRisk]

If I ever got money--I'd donate to animal cruelty causes before anything else. Kills me....Except Canadian Geese--my weakness, they should be done away with, but not cruelly.

Yeah, I'm not such a fan of Canada geese, either (Canadian geese would have to be citizens of Canada. I'm sure my 10th grade biology teacher would be so proud of me right now- he was a bit of a birding nut). There are an awful lot of them by the Harlem Meer, and they're messy and nasty. And proliferate very easily. Darn generalists.

[paisjpq]

Yeah, I'm not such a fan of Canada geese, either (Canadian geese would have to be citizens of Canada. I'm sure my 10th grade biology teacher would be so proud of me right now- he was a bit of a birding nut). There are an awful lot of them by the Harlem Meer, and they're messy and nasty. And proliferate very easily. Darn generalists.

I am a huge fan of them...but they don't winter up here so we never have the huge groups that are gross and dirty...
Last year my dog chased a pair that had a little gosling...mom and dad jumped in the pond...baby went the other way...after I called off Mrs. P, I caught the little bugger and brought him back to the pond...cutest fuzziest thing:o

[GenuineRisk]

I am a huge fan of them...but they don't winter up here so we never have the huge groups that are gross and dirty...
Last year my dog chased a pair that had a little gosling...mom and dad jumped in the pond...baby went the other way...after I called off Mrs. P, I caught the little bugger and brought him back to the pond...cutest fuzziest thing:o

Yeah-- for Canada geese, they sure seem to not be a fan of cold weather!

You're lucky the parents didn't go after you- when I played an Australian character at the Prospect Park Zoo I had to keep a Cape Barron Goose company and people would ask me the difference between a duck and a goose. I told them if they chased it it was probably a duck. If it chased them it was probably a goose.

I did love that goose, Lucy. She was a character. She preferred my bottle of chilled water to her own dish of water so she would sit next to me and cough cough cough as though she were just DYING of thirst, until I'd fill my bottle cap with water and give it to her.

[pgardn]

There are limits on shooting the Canadians here in Texas. They come in massive numbers to the area where a lot of rice is grown (East Texas). They are good to eat. I very much enjoyed my goose hunting experience with them. I did not hunt but identified the birds by binocular so that my partner could shoot the correct type of goose and kill the proper number.

If horses can be killed humanely I see nothing wrong with eating them. Better than letting them starve in some field like is reported time after time all over the country.

I personally could not eat a horse unless I was starving. Same with cats and dogs, but thats my little problem.

[GenuineRisk]

There are limits on shooting the Canadians here in Texas. They come in massive numbers to the area where a lot of rice is grown (East Texas). They are good to eat. I very much enjoyed my goose hunting experience with them. I did not hunt but identified the birds by binocular so that my partner could shoot the correct type of goose and kill the proper number.

If horses can be killed humanely I see nothing wrong with eating them. Better than letting them starve in some field like is reported time after time all over the country.

I personally could not eat a horse unless I was starving. Same with cats and dogs, but thats my little problem.

I was a strict vegetarian for about six years- now I eat meat once in a while (free range or grass-fed, if it's beef) but I did notice that after giving it up, when I came back my opinion on what was acceptable to eat changed- now I don't really see a difference between eating one mammal or another. Horse, dog, cow, pig, rat, rabbit-- what's the difference, really? So, if people want to eat horse, fine. No real difference from beef, other than being healthier for you. Not to mention I think if treating one kind of animal inhumanely is unacceptable to us, it should be unacceptable to treat any animal that way.

Well, maybe I feel differently about eating primates, but that's 'cause they're family. :)

[Cajungator26]

There are limits on shooting the Canadians here in Texas. They come in massive numbers to the area where a lot of rice is grown (East Texas). They are good to eat. I very much enjoyed my goose hunting experience with them. I did not hunt but identified the birds by binocular so that my partner could shoot the correct type of goose and kill the proper number.

If horses can be killed humanely I see nothing wrong with eating them. Better than letting them starve in some field like is reported time after time all over the country.

I personally could not eat a horse unless I was starving. Same with cats and dogs, but thats my little problem.

That's just the problem... they're not being killed humanely. And while I agree with the rest of your post (and Genuine's), I think that horses are a bit more intelligent than cows, thus making it all the more frightening for them to wait until it's their turn. :(

[randallscott35]

If they were killed humanely it would be a necessary evil...I hate to see dogs and cats euthanized but let's be real, there are too many of them and not enough homes and jerky people don't get them fixed.

[Cajungator26]

If they were killed humanely it would be a necessary evil...I hate to see dogs and cats euthanized but let's be real, there are too many of them and not enough homes and jerky people don't get them fixed.

Yep... it's sad. That's why I've rescued all of my pets... not enough homes for the ones that are unwanted.

[pgardn]

Well, maybe I feel differently about eating primates, but that's 'cause they're family. :)

Nothing like good Spider Monkey. When I was in Borneo, we shot them out of the trees with poison dart frogs. Just stuffed the frogs right down the tube of a 7 foot bamboo cannon and blew the troublesome little tree rats right out of the trees.

Hell broke loose when we fought the intruding Chimpanzee troop for the delicacy. It was our kill. The butler put on a good roast after securing our bounty following a brief but brutal skirmish.

If I misspelled a few words along the way... I think I could be Kentnessish.

[GenuineRisk]

Nothing like good Spider Monkey. When I was in Borneo, we shot them out of the trees with poison dart frogs. Just stuffed the frogs right down the tube of a 7 foot bamboo cannon and blew the troublesome little tree rats right out of the trees.

Hell broke loose when we fought the intruding Chimpanzee troop for the delicacy. It was our kill. The butler put on a good roast after securing our bounty following a brief but brutal skirmish.

If I misspelled a few words along the way... I think I could be Kentnessish.

You're a brave man. Our genes are too close for my comfort- we can share too many viruses between us. I know zookeepers have to be very careful with macaques because many of them carry Herpes B, which, while harmless to them (just as Herpes A, while annoying, is harmless to humans), is absolutely deadly to humans.

[GenuineRisk]

That's just the problem... they're not being killed humanely. And while I agree with the rest of your post (and Genuine's), I think that horses are a bit more intelligent than cows, thus making it all the more frightening for them to wait until it's their turn. :(

I agree with you that it comes down to human slaughter, but even more, humane care while they're being raised. The way pigs are kept is nothing short of barbaric. And intelligence-wise, I'd put them above horses (and dogs, for that matter).

[GenuineRisk]

I agree with you that it comes down to human slaughter, but even more, humane care while they're being raised. The way pigs are kept is nothing short of barbaric. And intelligence-wise, I'd put them above horses (and dogs, for that matter).

Which reminds me- I read an article in Reader's Digest while I was at the doctor's today about a pet pig that went after a pit bull that threatened her young boy owner. The pit bull was shot, but not before tearing up the pig pretty badly. She survived, though.

[Cajungator26]

I agree with you that it comes down to human slaughter, but even more, humane care while they're being raised. The way pigs are kept is nothing short of barbaric. And intelligence-wise, I'd put them above horses (and dogs, for that matter).

That's why I said cows. LOL :D

We used to have two pot bellied pigs out at the barn... boy were they cute and SMART. They were escape artists...

[pgardn]

You're a brave man. Our genes are too close for my comfort- we can share too many viruses between us. I know zookeepers have to be very careful with macaques because many of them carry Herpes B, which, while harmless to them (just as Herpes A, while annoying, is harmless to humans), is absolutely deadly to humans.

Well I know Zookeepers who have been stomped to death by Elephants. And I know Beekeepers. Know them well, on a first name basis. I think I one upped her.

No actually I agree. Our little primate brethren, while amusing in their anthropomorphic buffoonery, are quite dirtly little Bstrds from a viral point of view. Just think if we actually raised them on a massive basis as we do Birds and Pigs (thank you Asia). We could have a monkey-bird-swine flu that would wipe out the Christian South. Scuds would like that.

[GenuineRisk]

Well I know Zookeepers who have been stomped to death by Elephants. And I know Beekeepers. Know them well, on a first name basis. I think I one upped her.

No actually I agree. Our little primate brethren, while amusing in their anthropomorphic buffoonery, are quite dirtly little Bstrds from a viral point of view. Just think if we actually raised them on a massive basis as we do Birds and Pigs (thank you Asia). We could have a monkey-bird-swine flu that would wipe out the Christian South. Scuds would like that.

I prefer to think they're not so much "dirty" as "similar" (though yes, they are awfully messy. So are we, though). :) In fact, the main theory on AIDS is that it hopped from primates to people, isn't that right? And the primate version is relatively harmless to primates? Or is my info years out of date?

Cajun, I bet those pigs were way cute. We have two at the zoo, Otis and Oliver. I don't like them the way I loved one of the pigs we had some years back, Tallulah. All black with four pink "booties" and if she thought you would stay with her longer than 20 seconds she rolled over on her back so you could scratch her belly. Oh, I loved her.

[pgardn]

I prefer to think they're not so much "dirty" as "similar" (though yes, they are awfully messy. So are we, though). :) In fact, the main theory on AIDS is that it hopped from primates to people, isn't that right? And the primate version is relatively harmless to primates? Or is my info years out of date?



It is indeed, you are not out of date. It is also clear that close human contact on a continual basis with pigs and birds has led to some viruses that infect humans and the aforementioned animals. The swine flu and now these crazy bird viruses are thought to occur because of the dirty close exposure occuring on a massive level in Asia. Actually, its pretty clear this is what has happened. So the relatives dont have to be all that close, just vertebrates.

If you had a giant toad farm, in which you were very intimately associated with the beasts and so were all of your 100's of employees (Your are the big fish in Toad farming). And hundreds of thousands of people also had toad farms, toads being big business dont ya know, we could have an amphibian virus that would cross genetic lines because we have a lot in common with vertebrates in general. So a little contact with close relatives, or massive contact with more distance relatives seems to be the trick.

If you do decide to raise jellyfish instead of toads, I think we are safe, as jellyfish are very distantly related. And if you find a way to have close contact with jellyfish on a continual basis, you must be related to that fella that put himself in that round aquarium for a week or so. As a final example, I have yet to hear of cases of Pecan farmers contracting a Pecan tree viruses using the same reasoning. Even if the farmers scrambled around in the trees like spider monkeys. Which brings us full turn. And I thank you.

[GenuineRisk]

It is indeed, you are not out of date. It is also clear that close human contact on a continual basis with pigs and birds has led to some viruses that infect humans and the aforementioned animals. The swine flu and now these crazy bird viruses are thought to occur because of the dirty close exposure occuring on a massive level in Asia. Actually, its pretty clear this is what has happened. So the relatives dont have to be all that close, just vertebrates.

If you had a giant toad farm, in which you were very intimately associated with the beasts and so were all of your 100's of employees (Your are the big fish in Toad farming). And hundreds of thousands of people also had toad farms, toads being big business dont ya know, we could have an amphibian virus that would cross genetic lines because we have a lot in common with vertebrates in general. So a little contact with close relatives, or massive contact with more distance relatives seems to be the trick.

If you do decide to raise jellyfish instead of toads, I think we are safe, as jellyfish are very distantly related. And if you find a way to have close contact with jellyfish on a continual basis, you must be related to that fella that put himself in that round aquarium for a week or so. As a final example, I have yet to hear of cases of Pecan farmers contracting a Pecan tree viruses using the same reasoning. Even if the farmers scrambled around in the trees like spider monkeys. Which brings us full turn. And I thank you.

One of the actors here at the zoo some years back was a freelance veterinarian, and he always said vertebrates were all pretty similar, and if within the same class, like mammals, we're all REALLY similar. He was great at on-the-spot diagnoses for the actors' ailments! And usually right.

The Spanish Influenza was a pig virus that hopped to humans. My great-great grandfather died of it.

[pgardn]

The Spanish Influenza was a pig virus that hopped to humans. My great-great grandfather died of it.

Your grandfather and about 70 million other people. Now here is what is interesting about that particular strain now that we actually know its genetics. It killed healthy people as well as the young and old, which WAS a very scary fact.

However...

This is neat. We have acutally determined that this flu virus killed people by causing an autoimmune reaction. It directed the bodies defense system to attack itself, kinda of like the disease Lupus. And we also know how to stop this reaction from occuring in the case of this old flu virus. So if one of these particular strains arose again, there are some drug companies that would make big money off of the reagents that stop this autoimmune response. And the bottom line is it would probably not kill near as many healthy individuals or more susceptable folks.